President Of India Advocates OSS 702
cOdEgUru writes "I am sure this is a first. The President of India has urged Indian IT Professionals to develop and specialise in OSS rather than Windows. To be noted is that he made the speech (look for the "Think Different" section) at the famous Indian Institute of Information Technology (India's foremost academic institution equivalent to MIT). Also he reminisces that his meeting with Mr.Gates were difficult due to differing views concerning OSS and Security. What should be noted about him is that he is not a politician, but a scientist and an independent thinker foremost."
Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
In India (Score:4, Insightful)
What should be noted... (Score:5, Insightful)
What should be noted about him is that he is not a politician, but a scientist and an independent thinker foremost.
Everyone thinks they are independent thinkers. Someone else is an independent thinker if you agree with him, otherwise he's just being difficult.
Not the same situation. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Anti-Americanism/Microsoftism (Score:3, Insightful)
end-to-end solutions (Score:5, Insightful)
I think India is to be reckoned with in the future. Take the pharmaceutical industry at the moment, India has big companies manufacturing generic medicines.
That story actually reminded of that: give them the source/ingredients and they will try to make it, but cheaper. Obviously they can't make free software any cheaper, but if they try to make it a complete solution, then why couldn't they have a chance of succeeding?
The major problem they are facing at the moment imho is probably a lack of qualified IT people, but give them time, and they will surely be there.
It makes sense (Score:3, Insightful)
Note for the humour impaired: this is a joke
Bit Slanted.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Any guesses as to what these motives are? How could you say that the leader of the largest democracy in the world is not a politician, first and foremost?
I think the slashdot editors should have stripped that subjective statement from the story. Just because a guy advocates OSS doesn't put him on some new plane of existance.
Anyway, hooray for gov't backed OSS. I'm sure if Bush came out and made the same speech, he'd be crucified on slashdot in some strange way.
30% offtopic, 40% troll, 30% flamebait, 5% funny, 5% love
Re:true wisdom. (Score:5, Insightful)
I suspect he would have something to say about that before getting his shorts in a knot over Microsoft's EULA.
Okay, It's time for another tech boom (Score:5, Insightful)
1 000 000 000 million people worldwide using an Os that isn't Windows..... Now, that would clobber Microsoft's world domination plans.
On a side note, anyone know how I can invest in India's IT stocks?
Pebbles (Score:4, Insightful)
With this announcement following the Munich decision, it will be interesting to see if any further cities/states begin to take a closer look at open-source alternatives. If these increasingly influential parties have some success with this decision, then I would think that this could be quite the spur to others who are getting fed up with being strangluated by the ever-more restrictive licensing and lowest-common-denominator quality of many proprietary products.
Are we perhaps watching the pebble begin to roll?
B
Re:In India (Score:4, Insightful)
makes sense (Score:4, Insightful)
Also, it should be noted that the president of india is not directly elected by the people unlike united states & does not carry that much of a power. I would like to hear something like this from the prime minister of India - which will not happen because industry lobbyists are effective where there is a need for money to run in elections.
Re:Anti-Americanism/Microsoftism (Score:5, Insightful)
Rein in MS before you become the only country left beholden to it ...
Re:In India (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you underestimate the power of the Open Side. Though I have a nice degree and make good money, for any future employment I will primarily refer to my work on open source projects as proof that I am as qualified as I claim to be. Open source work like this - done in the public eye and peer reviewed - has become the best kind of resume and the best way to a good job.
As the economy picks up I'm sure my department will be hiring new system administrators and programmers. If you get two candidates with similar skills, one who worked at Microsoft and one who is maintainer of some Linux kernel driver, who would you hire?
Re:In India (Score:5, Insightful)
Exacly. No one ever gets paid to write, fix, or administer opensource code. [sarcasm]
If those programmers in India want to get paid they have to write, fix, and administer Microsoft code. Errr, oops. Only Microsoft can write or fix Microsoft code. The only thing a typical techie in India can do is administer Microsoft software.
Heck, maybe you're right. If Microsoft software becomes expensive enough to administer maybe it will make up for the lack of a job doing anything else.
-
Re:In India (Score:5, Insightful)
You must remember that you are speaking with an American. In their eyes, if you don't live in the "Good Ol' US of A" then you are living in a gutter and probably a terrorist.
Re:I don't trust India. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:true wisdom. (Score:2, Insightful)
when is a market saturated? (Score:4, Insightful)
Everytime I look at it, it is obvious that microsoft feels the same way, else they wouldn't bother in offering incentives down to zero cost, giving away licenses, etc, because there would be no need if they didn't see it or believe it. They could even INCREASE prices if they didn't feel open source was a threat to their dominance. And also tending to lobby for legislative efforts that would further lock themselves in "legally" somehow, establish clear governmental and corporate ties mandated by law. It's a cliche but that is clearly-fascistic. That's a desperation move on their part, or seems so to me anyway.
IMO, this past year hit the turning point in open source being way good enough for about any use,for any user level. Before still a little clunky and rough around the edges, but now? Naw, plenty good enough to compete with microsoft, propieatry unixes, mac osx, etc for well over 90% of any conceivable use out there, at any level. Even a complete GUI person like moi has little problems with normal non exotic applications with Linux for example. 3 years ago I took a qucik look at it and didn't even bother trying, because I knew I couldn't use it effectively. last yerar I tried again, MUCH MUCH better, the advances were probably more obvious to someone like me than for someone who had been using linux whatever for many many years, because they saw the advances in very small incremental steps. What I "saw" was a decade worth of advancement in a year or two compared to windows or like previous mac classic. That was enough for me to predict eventual open source dominance. Open source went from a V2 rocket level to a Saturn V and moon landing in a few years, so that trend and rapidity of development will continue most likely.
And the price is sure right-on, trebly more important in areas of the planet where the average wage is dismal. The security is right-on. The customize-ability is right-on. The enthusiasm is right-on. The mindshare with younger geeks is right-on. The license choices are right-on. Hardware is getting cheaper and cheaper and now it's just a matter of time where choice of installed OS is just common, not an aberration at any retail level. Once that occurs it's a new wide open market again, and it's *this close* right now.
And as to "jobs", any nation makes more money by trading with itself as much as possible, and keeping the money recycliing as close to home, rather than exporting it. India and china in particular are in a unique position where there populations are simply so gigantic that they can take advantage of that. Sure, expat workers sending money back home helps, but CREATING the wealth and money in the first place at home is an economic force multiplier. An example opf that was when the US primarily did this with a more diversified economy, and vertical integration of the various sub niches of the economy. Since we went to exporting our developed ability to create wealth, we've gone from the worlds largest creditor nation to worlds largest debtor nation. India would be WAY smart to not duplicate that mistake,to listen to the thinkers rather than the high level market skimmers, and to seek to get more independent, not more dependent, in IT or anything else.
Re:In India (Score:3, Insightful)
Let keep generalizations away from conversations.
Re:In India (Score:2, Insightful)
You must not be an American or you would realize that not all of us are so stereotypical. As with all countries we are as diversified as the next, as argumentative and debative of our governments role, and have the uneducated along with the educated, so please, do not lump us all into a simplistic catagory.
-M-
Re:equivalent to MIT? (Score:1, Insightful)
Those *EXAMS* are really hard. It isn't easy for students to study for 2+ years before taking them. Your MIT equivalent: GPA (depends from school to school) and SAT (bahhh, so laughably coachable) are relatively easy. And, really, does extra curricular activities symbolize intelligence? Letters or recommendations are all about favortism. So, well, there it is: MIT's admission standards are no rocket launch.
Any generic high school student isn't going to pass the exams. Admission standards at MIT are mighty low compared to IIT. IIT accepts less than 2000 students a year out of around 200,000-250,000 test takers. Thats below 1% (and this is for undergrads). Last time I checked even MIT's grad programs in their best areas have an acceptance rate of around 3 to 5%.
Also, US has many other great undergrad institutions, India doesn't. I will go out on a limb and say that IIT has a better undergrad population then MIT. Anyway, over 95% of IITers end up in US. They are braniacs and ambitious, they might not have the advantages of a first world education and the tools that come along with it, but when they come here they are second to none.
OT wanderings (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, come on now, no need to be vicious. Certainly, as Americans we tend to be somewhat elitist, ethnocentric, and globally unaware, but don't confuse the thoughts of the most audible with the thoughts of the less vocal majority.. Most Americans don't think that just because someone is a foreigner that they are a terrorist, up to no good, or are a drag on the economy. Certainly, they have some fear of people of middle-Eastern descent, but you can't really begrudge them that, due to the current state of things. It isn't to say that we should be afraid, but if you get bitten by your neighbor's dog, you're bound to be a bit wary of your neighbor and dogs in general for a while, especially if you see them regularly going after each-other's throats. Not to go on a diatribe here, and I certainly thinkg Americans could stand to be a bit more globally concious, but the time will come when we don't have a choice, and that statement up there just comes across as being bitter. Your posting history doesn't indicate you as being trollish or having a particular appetite for flamebait, so I'll assume you're just having a bad day.. Hope that improves for you.
What a hoot (Score:2, Insightful)
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 29, @10:06AM (#6067180)
Moderators: Mod Parent Post As A Troll please
Defending America abroad "the American Way", speaking from anonymity, calling for oppression.
Indiafarming (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmm, seems to me that the Indian tech firms are able to make it just fine by getting programming jobs from ... the US.
I know a lot of programmers kind of resent this, but it isn't just about them being able to program cheaper. Most of these programming shops in India are at CMM level 3 or higher. That means a lot to big compaines. Not only is it cheaper, but these places put out good, reliable software with good documentation (code, results, requirements, design, etc). That stuff matters. I am currently on a team at my company that is trying to get processes in place to get us to CMM level 2. It is hard. People don't like following processes, don't like documenting what they do, they don't like being held accountable for their work. Some of the good companies in India are at CMM level 5, which is no small feat.
So instead of people bitching about India, and how they are stealing our jobs, and how they are just clawing their way out of poverty, maybe we should ask WHY they are able to achieve these things when most companies in the US are not. It kind of reminds me of the Japanese car scare, where people would only "buy American" even though American cars completely sucked. The cheaper, more reliable Japanese cars of the late 70's/early 80's sure woke up the US car industry. Maybe it is time the US softare market woke up.
Re:In India (Score:4, Insightful)
So... I write OSS, and it pays. Not *just* writing OSS -- I do much else as well -- but being able to pick up these codebases and debug or work with them contributes substantially to my value as an employee.
I suspect that folks in a situation such as my own are far more common than you think.
I don't trust USA (Score:2, Insightful)
Amerika should stop tolerating pograms against minorities (DMCA).
Amerika should address their grievous repression
of "lower castes" ("Niggers", amerikan natives).
Amerika should listen to the UN.
Maybe if they addressed these, we could take
your comment seriously.
Re:In India (Score:5, Insightful)
That said, of course I see your point -- hiring someone based on their resume alone is of course a bad idea. But just having somewhere on ones resume as "I worked here" is a much easier thing to have, and far less valuable, than the ongoing maintainership of some portion of the kernel (likewise for most large, high-profile projects with a good number of developers).
Re:Bit Slanted.... (Score:3, Insightful)
I think the submitter was trying to hint at he fact that Dr APJ Abdul Kalam isn't a career politician, but was in fact, largely responsible for India's missile, space and nuclear programmes (Pokhran II that is).
He was elected virtually unopposed, with token opposition from a Communist Party nominee, so if the submitter was indeed Dr Kalam's campaign manager, he probably had one of the easiest jobs in the world. :-)
Any case, this isn't quite governmental approval for OSS/Software-Libre; it's more like Dr Kalam's nod to his scientist/engineer colleagues in a presumably OSS-friendly campus. Someone in the Parliament did ask the Indian Minister of Information Technology if he would mandate the exclusive use of OSS in government departments; the Minister apparently went on record saying that the IT procurement policy will depend on the task at hand, and not how the technology has been developed.
(Which, of course, is a fair statement to make, and personally, I'm glad that the government thinks that way; shows that there's at least some semblance of a clue at Raisana Hill. For, most believe we lost the hardware game precisely because of such closed-minded policies; in 1977, the then socialist government drove the international electronics players out, giving the entire Indian market to four or five government-run electronics companies. Reason:- the powers-that-be didn't like phoreners operating freely in India.
OSS *should* win; but solely on technological merit. Not for ideological reasons)
Re:Microsoft (Score:2, Insightful)
Giving your software away hardly means bankruptcy (Score:5, Insightful)
Where I disagree with you is on piracy. I think the operating system should be free, programming languages should be free and that's it. The point of a free operating system is to foster a competitive environment. Companies still need assurances that they can write software without giving it away.
So you think that all software developed, excepting OS-level stuff, should be proprietary? That seems a little harsh. Would you really like to remove the right of people to give their work away? A vast collection of software is available today because people have chosen to work on something in their spare time and distribute it, mostly because it worked for them and someone else might benefit as well.
And is the point of a free operating system to foster a competitive environment? I view it as a side effect not the reason.
Even if it comes to a point where you can't make money writing software, people are always going to want someone/some company to help them use it, implement it or merely document it. There will always be opportunities for making money with software. You just might find selling it tough. I don't think that hurts the software industry one iota - people will end up paying for the most competitive system implemented in the most effective and useful fashion. Companies who build the expertise to make such installations will be the ones who will stand to make the most money in such an economy. Finally we might see a software economy where the talents and knowledge of the companies employees are the real financial capital rather than the number of patents you hold.
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Re:In India (Score:3, Insightful)
You should have expressed the joke in terms /.
understands.
Then followed it up with a Apu Quik-E mart joke. If you are realy looking to change those -1 flame to +5 funny then make a step 1..N joke out of the Simpsons quote.It seems to be too late though, you have some asshat coward bombing you with overrated now.
I don't trust the US (Score:3, Insightful)
The US should abandon nuclear weapons and ICBMs.
The US should stop tolerating pograms (sic) against minorities.
The US should address their grievous repression of "lower castes" (ie, people from poorer backgrounds).
The US should respect the Geneva Convention and other human rights in Camp X-Ray, as specified by most of the world.
Maybe if they addressed these, we could take US policy seriously.
It works both ways doesn't it?
Seriously, before you start deciding which governments around the world are OK and which aren't, perhaps you should pay more attention to your own goverment and your own society.
If the Founding Fathers were alive today, they'd be appalled at how their vision of a free and egalitarian society has been corrupted.
No Better (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
The day India's prime minister (who holds all real power) says this, it'll be news.
beta?? (Score:1, Insightful)
open source at its finest!!
Re:Indian president is a technocrat.. (Score:3, Insightful)
You will probably say that he worked 40 years in the DRDO, India's main Defense research organization. He was an administrator (i.e. management) for DRDO, not a scientist. And his "doctorate" is an honorary doctorate --- he only holds a Bachelor's degree.
100% politician.
Re:In India (Score:3, Insightful)
Fine, theres a lot of corruption AND poverty here. But that doesn't mean they dont deserve any credit for the good things they do.
Re:Indian president is a technocrat.. (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Indian president is a technocrat.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Getting a degree from Yale (or Harvard, whatever and with a C average to boot) is *definitely* not always a measure of intelligence. Getting into an Ivy league school only requires money and influence. Let me quote
He [Kalam] is the Vice President of Astronautical Society of India, Fellow of the Indian National Academy of Engineering and Indian Academy of Sciences, Bangalore, and an Honorary Fellow of the Institution of Electronics and Telecommunication Engineers
As regard's America's president -- I really think they need a reformer who is willing to have the courage to come up with concrete solutions to the problems created by the US and other countries rather than someone who wakes up in the morning and decided it would be fun to invade another country to improve his popularity ratings (and a "terror dial" to scare gullible Americans. Orange and everyone runs to hide under the kichten table and store duct tape. He He. What a riot). This country is so blind to news from outside. As you might have guessed by now, I am from India and when I see that something called __World__ news tonight has as lead story something about fighting in Israel and all other stories items like how some guy was arrested in Texas someplace for smoking pot or whatever, I realize how important world news really is to this country. And this even after "everything changed" after
drumroll
9/11!!!
I suppose I'd have a similar opinion of human morality / nature if I lived in a nation which tolerates systematic human degradation as India does.
Stand up and be counted, you hypocritical coward (Score:3, Insightful)
According to you
If you don't fucking see a difference between some of the regimes out there and US then you are fucking sick and need to get out more.
Seriously.
There's a reason why you and the original poster have posted as Anonymous Cowards. It's because you are cowards, because you don't have the guts to stand up and say "this is me, this is my opinion, this is what I truly believe in".
And, please, try and get it right. I'm not saying that you can't judge others. I'm saying that if you're going to judge others then you should be prepared to be judged yourself.
The difference between the Indian "regime" and the US? Well, for starters, India hasn't invaded another country under the pretence of eliminating Weapons of Mass Destruction, only to turn around after the invasion and say that finding those WMDs (if they truly exist) isn't that important after all.
It amazes me when people can't see hypocrisy when it's staring them in the face every fucking day.
Re:Indiafarming (Score:3, Insightful)
CMM is no panacea. It is an indicator of how mature your software development process is - nothing more. If all else is equal, the CMM certified shop will win out. But there is also that killer factor of price. Combine lower price with mature development process, and it is tough to beat.
All of your other concerns are valid concerns, but only one of them can be addressed in this context:
Is it bug free? (meaning does all the specified functionality work as desired?)
While having a mature process doesn't guarantee it is bug free, it can lend a little credibility to the fact. I was going to say that this is a totally unrelated thing, but by proving that you have a solid process in place, you are helping to stomp out bugs earlier in the process. No, it won't eliminate them all, but it isn't intended to.
The other things you mention are valid concerns, but aren't in the context of process. The only thing that having a strong process in place will do is make sure that you can systematically find out some of these issues before it is too late, and you can gather stats to *improve* your process to catch the things that slip through. If you just go about things willy-nilly, you are just fumbling around in the dark. Sometimes that works, most of the time it doesn't. Again, CMM certification isn't the be-all-end-all answer, but it is more than a lot of places have.
Re:In India (Score:3, Insightful)
Max
Re:Fix your political system first (Score:4, Insightful)
As an American I guess I could respond to this with 'the First Amendment', but then you'd probably claim that basic rights like 'freedom of speech' only apply to U.S. citizens.
And really - talk about cleaning your own house. My government started a war over WMD and terrorism, against a nation which has no WMD and wasn't even remotely involved in 9/11, simply to steal that country's oil while proving that Shrub has a bigger dick than Saddam. You want to talk corrupt? Take a look at who's been awarded the multi-billion 'rebuilding' contracts and control over the oil - note how they're directly connected to both Shrub and mini-Shrub.
I'd say corruption is alive and well here in America, and reaches right up to the top levels of government. What are you going to do now? Claim that *I* don't have the 'moral authority' to criticize the government either?
Max
Re:Microsoft (Score:3, Insightful)
What do you call Lobbying? Donations? Political Action Committee?
Re:In India (Score:4, Insightful)
For sarcasm to work, the speaker has to be respected. Sarcasm from a total stranger doesn't work if the sarcastic comment is the first thing you've ever read by that person, or remember reading by that person.
So, when sarcasm fails, the fault lies with those dumb enough to say such things and really mean it,
not with the reader who didn't "get it".
Re:No Better (Score:2, Insightful)
The US is better because these new ways to kill people are better ways to kill people, ways that inflict less "collateral" damage than at any time in the history of the world. GPS guidance, terrain contour mapping, infrared signature targeting: all of these are funded because they make weapons more lethal to those being targeted, not innocent bystanders. And in some cases, these new weapons don't even kill people! (Check out the U.S. Army's new various non-lethal weapons technology here [army.mil].)
No matter what you say, improving weapons is a noble goal, because force is still regrettably necessary to maintain some semblance of order and security in this world, and crude force is becoming altogether intolerable now that media attention makes even small conflicts front-page news around the globe. New weapons must be more precise than ever before, and must do their jobs more reliably and thoroughly than ever before.
Investing money into gross tonnage nuclear bombs with dirty radioactive residue and crude delivery vehicles is the OPPOSITE of the US plan. Attempts by non-superpower countries to create strategic nuclear weapons are completely illogical on several levels. Most importantly, it shows that such countries do not understand the prerequisite for strategic deterrence and its stabilizing corollary, Mutually Assured Destruction: only balanced nuclear arsenals are MAD-deterred. The crude nuclear weapons under construction throughout the world today are not strategic in nature (yet), because they lack delivery vehicles. The only thing they have succeeded to accomplish is destabilizing the world's nuclear balance, and creating incentive for the world's remaining superpower to actually deploy a missile shield system!
If you want to "win" in today's world, win with your economy, not strategic weapons. Don't waste your time and national resources developing weapons that won't be used and have no strategic deterrence value. President Kalam seems to understand this now, which is why I think he is advocating technology education and has great concern for students in India. I hope his message is heeded.
Re:Microsoft (Score:1, Insightful)