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Gentoo Linux Rethinks Package Management System 300

Posted by timothy
from the after-all-rpm-is-better dept.
YOU ARE SO FIRED! writes "In an effort to conform to the LSB standards, Gentoo Linux will be adopting RPM as the standard form of package management in portage 2.1. More information can be found in the Gentoo weekly newsletter. I'd surely be fired if I would've proposed such an idea!"
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Gentoo Linux Rethinks Package Management System

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  • First Post! (Score:2, Funny)

    by bc90021 (43730)
    And a Happy April to everyone!! :)
    • I was just about to go up in flames, until I thought to look at the calendar. And I don't even use Gentoo - though I have given it some thought, it's just that I really like Slackware.
  • You can't fire me! I QUIT!
  • Woo Hoo! (Score:4, Funny)

    by 0x7F (158643) <slashdot.tpope@org> on Tuesday April 01, 2003 @12:35AM (#5636047) Homepage
    At last, we Debian users have a legitimate reason to snub Gentoo.

    Just kidding! Happy April Fools' Day everybody.
  • by R-2-RO (766) on Tuesday April 01, 2003 @12:37AM (#5636058) Homepage Journal
    I was pissed.. Until I realized the GWN is dated April 1.. Haha... damn.. had me for a few seconds there.. Bastards! :)
  • I can't speak for the community in general, but RPMs are the number 1 reason I started to avoid redhat. The idea that the build script et al is inside the package and kept away from the user is pretty absurd in my opinion. This was what drove me into the arms of BSD. Linux called me back for it's hardware support, but after a decision like this, I'll be hard pressed to stick with gentoo. Or, another perspective, how is this not debian, once and again?
  • Hmm (Score:3, Insightful)

    by MrP- (45616) <[rob] [at] [elitemrp.net]> on Tuesday April 01, 2003 @12:39AM (#5636072) Homepage
    2 april fools posts in a row, hope this isnt like last year where every damn article was fake.

    I remember 2 years ago only a few were fake, that was fun, but last year got boring and annoying real fast.
    • Re:Hmm (Score:3, Funny)

      by CoolVibe (11466)
      Yeah, and to top it off, it's all Microsoft's fault too. Look! A visual studio ad! They are even paying for it! See?!?

      *ducks for cover*

  • You Suck! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Bios_Hakr (68586) <xptical&gmail,com> on Tuesday April 01, 2003 @12:39AM (#5636073) Homepage
    My heart jumped about 3 feet before I rememberd it is April 1.

    I'll just remember to disregard everything for the next 24 hours.

    Come to think of it, most of the stories are misleading anyway. Why should 1 April be any different.

    • by macshit (157376) <(miles) (at) (gnu.org)> on Tuesday April 01, 2003 @05:38AM (#5637015) Homepage
      That would be the best April-fools joke of all -- for the next 24 hours, only post interesting, well-researched, and insightful stories, complete with correct spelling and grammar and no dups.

      Then as the slashdot hordes are in the midst of their rejoicing, intoxicated by the future that could be, CmdrTaco can post his `Ha Ha! April Fuls!' story 10 or 11 times.
  • April Fool's (Score:3, Informative)

    by Mr.Ned (79679) on Tuesday April 01, 2003 @12:40AM (#5636078)
    http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=gentoo-user&r=1&w= 2 [theaimsgroup.com]

    Check the above link for some of the gentoo-user mailing list archives - discussion started a few minutes after the newsletter went out. Common consensus is that it's April Fools - killing the package management system that makes Gentoo unique and requiring X is just too big a step to make without any discussion on the gentoo-dev list. Kurt did a really good job on this one if Slashdot bit!
    • >Kurt did a really good job on this one if Slashdot bit!

      Right... Because Slashdot always does it best to avoid April Fools stories. Erroneous stories are posted all year round, but on 4/1 they have an excuse..
    • by pod (1103)
      ...nt out. Common consensus is that it's April Fools - killin...


      The COMMON CONSENSUS?!??! I thought Gentoo users were a pretty smart bunch. It says it's April Fools Joke right on the article. Not much room for consensus there, I'm afraid.

    • Re:April Fool's (Score:3, Informative)

      by klieber (124032)
      Thanks. I thought so, too. :)

      If you thought the discussion on gentoo-user was amusing, you should have seen the flamewar on #gentoo. I am amazed and astounded at how many people fell for this joke. Of course, I speak with inside knowledge of the project, but the idea that we would migrate to RPMs for our package management format is simply not in the realm of possibility. I assumed most people would realize that, too. :)

      Then again, we did go to great pains to research the LSB to come up with support,
  • <panic>I can hardly believe that I just read that Gentoo would adopt RPM. The backlash for this move should be significant! NOOOOOOOOO!</panic> "Note: This is an April Fool's joke.". Gotta love it.

    Of course, its quite comforting to get this news on April 1st rather than any other day. I think I'll observe a day of mourning for what could have been, and then get back to compiling updates from source on April 2nd. Hehe.
  • It must be getting around that time of year ... April, huh?
  • by jhoffoss (73895) on Tuesday April 01, 2003 @12:41AM (#5636092) Journal
    I just had a f***ing heart attack, until I thought about that for a minute or two. First time (in ALL honesty) I've EVER been taken in by an April Fool's joke. Shame on you, DRobbins! SHAME ON YOU!!!
  • Unfortunately all of us West-Coast people who dont realize that there is a time difference dont have the April 1'st status displaying on our computer clocks. We're ovbiously in the dark here.
  • Alright, I read the previous story and saw right through it and then fell for this. I am truly an April's Fool.
    • to my credit, I loaded /. while there were no comments posted on this story and saw that immediately, so no other 4/1 jokes entered my brain prior.
  • Um... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by BlueGecko (109058)
    ...couldn't we at least hold off April Fool's jokes until--and I admit this is a long shot--April Fool's Day?
  • by SuperBug (200913) on Tuesday April 01, 2003 @12:47AM (#5636141) Homepage Journal
    IMHO, something I've long thought about regarding LSB is that there should be a Package Management specification. Much like the way IEEE defines specifications for things, ANSI, ISO, and so on.

    After that, it should be up to a developer to decide how to implement that standard and thus conform to it. I like RPM. It's pretty easy to write for and deal with, at least for me, but I feel it is lacking a lot of things that I think it should have by now.

    It should be more modular, with regards to how package .spec files are written. It should provide more feature sets. i.e. Why does redcarpet, up2date, urpm, and others provide auto package dependancy checking and fulfillment while the standalone "rpm" base program doesn't? Yes, I know apt does, but I'm speaking only from within the realm of RPM. There are similiar tools available that do different things, on the same side of the fence.

    This is why I believe a full-on specification for what RPM is should be better established than it is today. IMHO, this offers people a much better reason to decide rpm over apt or apt over rpm or whatever else, when the playing field is leveled.

    Wishful thinking I guess.
    • Yes, I know apt does

      But are you remembering that apt does RPM? Quite well, I might add. We've been using it for months at work.
    • There should be a recommendation, not a specification. Let me explain:

      There will be some linux systems wherein zero file manipulation occurs on the system image. Perhaps the files are rsynced from a master, or certain filesystems are network mounted. Or perhaps the system is COTS and boots from flash. Clearly, a package management system would be inappropriate in each case.

      Or, perhaps the system is running in a limited environment, and the most basic techniques are being used to maintain it (ie shell scri
    • There should be two standards:
      one for binary packaging RPM style
      the other for compile-script based packaging ebuild style.
      These two serve different purposes and should
      not be lumped together.
      • No but RPM and similar packaging systems do have compile-script stuff. That's what a source RPM is. It includes a spec file which says how to get the source, patch it, configure it, compile it, install it and finally put together the installed files into a binary RPM.

        The RPM spec file format should be extended so it covers all of the features used by Gentoo's build scripts. (I think it probably handles most of them already.) Then Gentoo really could move to RPM for package handling - all built from sou
    • IMHO, something I've long thought about regarding LSB is that there should be a Package Management specification. Much like the way IEEE defines specifications for things, ANSI, ISO, and so on.

      Well, there is. It's just not very useful, because it says you can only have one dependancy. D'oh.

      Wishful thinking I guess.

      Perhaps. But you're not the only one thinking wishfully about this. The main packaging dudes from Redhat, Debian and yes, even Gentoo, are talking about it [freestandards.org].

      The list has gone a bit dead

  • by Chordonblue (585047) on Tuesday April 01, 2003 @12:54AM (#5636180) Journal
    ...We wouldn't want our various versions of Linux to actually agree on ONE standard for package management, after all! :P

  • by cjpez (148000)
    ... and so it begins!
  • ...since my GNOME fish [fifi.org] died last night.
  • sick sons of bitches...
  • conspiracy points! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ctar (211926) <christophertar@g ... inus threevowels> on Tuesday April 01, 2003 @01:11AM (#5636246) Homepage
    I give them points for the level of involvement they went to in order to make this convincing...I was thinking about my own April Fool's stories to submit, but then I thought, "What will I link to?!" This confirms that gentoo is not only a great distro, but has a sense of humor, too!

  • Oh, I know... USA lost the war and the new America president is Saddam Hussein. Or better. Bush and Saddam reached a truce ezchanging countries. so now Saddam is the president of USA and Bush of Irak.

    Don't know if this will be funny, just ask how funny felt the gentoo fans about a rpm migration (at least it could had been a migration to .deb)

  • Nice one! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TheFrood (163934) on Tuesday April 01, 2003 @01:13AM (#5636258) Homepage Journal
    This was a clever April Fool's post. It caught me by surprise. Well done, Slashdot.

    Of course, what I'm not looking forward to is the next twenty-four hours, when Slashdot will be filled with nonstop April Fool's jokes, completely defeating the purpose of April Fool's day.

    TheFrood
    • Of course, what I'm not looking forward to is the next twenty-four hours, when Slashdot will be filled with nonstop April Fool's jokes, completely defeating the purpose of April Fool's day.

      I'll admit, it would be nice to see some real news intermingled with it; so that I at least have a chance to bite, rather than being fairly certain that it is a hoax...
    • by m00nun1t (588082) on Tuesday April 01, 2003 @02:41AM (#5636563) Homepage
      They will probably just get the same april fools joke and show it 3 times in the next 24 hours as duplicates :)
    • This was a clever April Fool's post. It caught me by surprise. Well done, Slashdot.

      Really? YOU ARE SO FIRED! has always been a troll so even without realizing it was the first of April (Hey, I'm just awake, I'm allowed to be in a semi-conscious state of mind.) it was clear it was either a joke, bullshit or some goatse links that slipped through thanks to a drunk editor.

      But still, it was a funny :)

  • I just got my 5 superanifty mod points, and its 15 minutes (EST) into April Fools' Day. How in the hell am I supposed to use these things now?
  • the 1 day every year that nerds throughout the world refuse to acknowledge that actual news might happen, and decide to just play jokes on each other all day...
  • bash#>rpm -e April_Fools.4.1.20-03.src.rpm

    Soko
  • Happy 1/4/2003 (Score:2, Insightful)

    by mattite (526549)

    I was so scared, I soiled myself. Now excuse me while I go change my armor....

    Just in case anyone's really confused:
    http://www.gentoo.org/news/en/gwn/20030401-newslet ter.xml [gentoo.org]

  • /. to switch to IIS?
  • Gentoo forum thread (Score:3, Informative)

    by nacs (658138) on Tuesday April 01, 2003 @01:34AM (#5636355) Journal
    There is a thread in the Gentoo forums [gentoo.org] about this.
  • If this isn't a vaid reason to fork I dont know what is.

    Yes I know what the date is.
  • Who is the fool?

    One who ruins his reputation as a credible news source by posting false stories once a year?

    or

    One who believes the false stories?
  • I am not a Linux guru. I am not a complete newbie either. I have been running RH 8.0 for a number of months and so far my complaints center on no AA fonts and a firewire CD-RW that doesn't work.

    Please tell me what is so bad about RPM's versus other package management systems. Why do people hate it so bad? What am I missing by using mostly RPMs? (I have done standard makefile builds before)

    It seems to me that if someone could create a package management system that could read packages in all their form
    • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 01, 2003 @02:06AM (#5636471)
      well, it isn't so much RPM that sucks as a tool in itself as it is braindead package authors (well, it is kind of non-unixy in the small tool that does one thing kind of philosophy, rpm is a huge monolithic program). So you try to install lynx and find perl is a dependency. wha? ok, so you install perl. You don't really have space for it on this box, but hey, maybe it will come in handy. But the perl rpm says a dozen or so perl modules are dependencies. huh? Those damn things are optional, goddammit. But whatever. So perl is happy. Back to wget. Now it says it has to install index.html. WTF? A fucking homepage? That's a damn dependency? awright, let it continue, and now it bitches cause index.html is generated by python.

      That's the problem with RPM systems. You want to install a text-only browser on a 486 and wind up installing 100 megs more vthan you wanted to.

      Some software comes only in RPM packages, like Compaq's C compiler. Ever tried to install an rpm on a Slackware system? It complains that glibc, bin/sh and a kernel aren't installed. RPM is stupid.

      I've patched my rpm to take --just-do-it-you-goddam-piece-of-shit as an argument, which sets the --force and --nodep bits.
      • So you try to install lynx and find perl is a dependency. wha? ok, so you install perl. You don't really have space for it on this box, but hey, maybe it will come in handy. But the perl rpm says a dozen or so perl modules are dependencies. huh? Those damn things are optional, goddammit.

        Sounds like you want something like Zero Install [sf.net]. It uses the globally unique nature of the Internet's DNS system to remove the need for a central package database, allowing packages to be fetched (and cached) as they're

      • Ever tried to install an rpm on a Slackware system?

        Umm. No. Isn't that some kind of blasphemy?
    • Reasons why people don't like RPM --

      1) Opaque. The RPM db is binary, easy to trash. The Portage DB is a directory tree of plain-text files. RPMs are binary. Ebuilds are plain-text files.

      2) Complex. RPM is a complex format. It pretty much takes a programmer to write an RPM. EBuilds are easy enough for just someone with a knowledge of the UNIX shell to write. As a result, the Gentoo forums are filled with user ebuilds, and the ebuild library for Gentoo is huge, despite the much smaller Gentoo userbase.

      3) P
      • 3) Power. RPM, by itself, is pretty dumb. RPM and RedHat are the reasons why people like to bitch about the complexity of software installation on Linux. In RedHat, if you want to install a program, you have to manually recurse the dependency tree of the packages. In Portage, you just request the installation of one package, and everything else is handled automatically.

        Look, I'm as game for a good packaging flamewar as much as the next guy, but be fair. If you subscribe to RHN you can use up2date to do w

  • this april fool's "hilarity" gets lamer and lamer every year - can't we just give it a rest?

    It's spreading to other sites now too, the whole CPAN/Matt's archive thing did give me a bit of a scare, course it didn't help that they did it a whole day early (for me anyway, don't know what time zone they are in)

  • The last couple of stories are obviously April Fool's stories, but there is no indication from Slashdot's side that they are. How about making a new April Fool's icon for each category, which is slightly different from the original in a spoofy kind of way (cf. Google)? I know it's a lot of work for one day of the year, but it doesn't seem like the slashdot maintainers do much else anyway :)

    Or for that matter, how about including normal icons in the 'Slashdot tape' to the right of the Slashdot logo but usi

  • No fair! It's still March 31st in my timezone!

    But just to reassure all the Real Men and Real Women out there... the BSD systems will not attempt to conform to the LSB by adopting RPM ;-)

  • by be-fan (61476)
    You don't expect this type of shit at 1:00 am. That's what I get for browsing so late (apparently, so early :)
  • Dear Editors,

    Thank you for you kind presents this year, they were certainly an improvement so far on last year - the stories, even though splitting my sides, were not that great as it was not really all that subtle. But I want to say that I am impressed how subtle you have been with this present, thank you! I would never have even guessed that this was a fake! How stupid I felt when I realised that it was!

    One of the great things about pratical jokes on April Fools is their comedy timing [you couldn't get
  • Normally they send the gentoo weekly newsletter on mondays, I was actually wondering where it was yesterday.
    They must have waited for an extra in order to tell the blisfull news.
  • this is just evil to do, April fools sucks.

    i read the title and about flew off the handle uintil about 3 seconds later when i realized it was april fools. PURE EVIL!!
  • Portage does have a binary package format. It might be interesting if pkg was replaced by rpm while keeping the portage ebuilds tree.
  • My only wish is that there were moderation choices for "Gullible" and "Funny As All Hell."
  • monkeys weren't flying out of my butt.

  • Note: This is an April Fool's joke.

    One of the nice things of April, 1st is able to spot the fake stories from the real ones. Unfortunately Gentoo makes no real sport from this anymore... (cf. the notes under their fake stories) D4mm1t!
  • Neither this story nor this post were actually made in April. Hmmm...
  • The RPM development team has just announced a bugfix for all of the circular dependency problems.
  • The newsletter actually says "Note: This is an April Fool's joke." I mean, if you have to explain the joke...
  • *weeps*

    It's begun again. The annual April Fool's Day flogging of loyal /. readers. Not only are we subjected to a day of really nasty jokes and heartattacks (Damn you, Timothy, for not waiting till midnight!), but we have to go a whole day without decent news.

    Clever would be to insert joke stories in between real stories. Interesting and amusing would be to sneak in things where you don't expect them, in the middle of normality. No one does something all out for AprFoo like declaring themselves ga

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