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Distros To Try: Slackware 9.0-rc1 And Yoper 1.0 403

Posted by timothy from the invited-abuse dept.
FrosGate writes "Slackware 9.0-rc1 is now available for public consumption over at www.slackware.com. From the site: 'Some of the main components included are the 2.4.20 Linux kernel, KDE 3.1, GNOME 2.2, and XFree86 4.3.0, as well as gcc-3.2.2 and the latest development libraries. Enjoy!' Enjoy is right!" And Scorchen writes "YOPER has released Version 1.0 of their increasingly popular distro. This is the their first stable release." Here's the announcment. The website claims "With Yoper it is possible to import packages from all the other major distros including rpm's, deb's, and tgz packages."
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Distros To Try: Slackware 9.0-rc1 And Yoper 1.0 More

Distros To Try: Slackware 9.0-rc1 And Yoper 1.0

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  • Yoper looks a bit dull? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Stillman ( 185591 ) on Thursday March 06, 2003 @12:06AM (#5446748) Homepage
    I've been looking at YOPER recently, and it really doesn't seem to be much more than just another distro. The website makes all sorts of amazing claims, but when it boils down to it, it just doesn't seem to have a lot to it. Slackware + alien?

    I dunno - somebody prove me wrong! :)

    • Re:Yoper looks a bit dull? (Score:5, Funny)

      by hdparm ( 575302 ) on Thursday March 06, 2003 @12:14AM (#5446788) Homepage
      GNU/YOPER

      Happy now?

      Oh sorry, it's Stillman, not Stallman.

    • YOPER = Slackware + Alien

      Yep, that about says it all. Still, I'm wanting to put together a Knoppix-like distro but focused on media. Have all the fun tools/players in it, along with a XINE DVD plugin, MPlayer, and OGLE.

    • The problem with multiple package bases (Score:5, Informative)

      by SHEENmaster ( 581283 ) <travis@utk. e d u> on Thursday March 06, 2003 @01:26AM (#5447149) Homepage Journal
      is that they have different dependency chains. Before I saw the glory of Debian Linux (I use non-free packages, so it isn't GNU/Linux) I tried using Redhat RPMs with Mandrake 7.something.

      Each app wanted a different version of glibc or a different version of libfoo, and it eventually got to the point where I gave up.

      I use debian for prepackages software and compile from source when no packages are available. Debian packages are of the highest quality, every one of them contains man documentation and stuff as well as a fully-integrated distro menu for those "other" window managers like windowmaker and blackbox.

      If they made it work, then congrats to them. I just won't be betting on it any time soon.
      • that they have different dependency chains. Before I saw the glory of Debian Linux (I use non-free packages, so it isn't GNU/Linux) I tried using Redhat RPMs with Mandrake 7.something.

        Each app wanted a different version of glibc or a different version of libfoo, and it eventually got to the point where I gave up.

        Personally, that's why I went with Gentoo. You want an app? Just 'emerge the-name-of-the-app' here and all the libraries and everything the thing needs is downloaded and compiled right on your system. Since it's compiled on your system, it's optimized for the libraries you have installed automatically. The package management system (Portage) also ensures that applications are optimized for your processor -- something Yoper claims to do, but I don't see how given that it's a binary-based distro and not a source-based distro like Gentoo.

      • I use non-free packages, so it isn't GNU/Linux


        It isn't the absence of non-free packages that makes a "Linux" system GNU/Linux, it is the fundamental dependence on GNU software.

        How hard would it be to rip Glibc out of your Debian system then rebuild it without Gcc? (Not to mention everything from Autoconf or Bash to Time or Wget.)

        -Peter

    • Yoper not just dull, but actually fishy... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 06, 2003 @01:58AM (#5447244)
      (Sorry, I'm about to flame a Linux distro... Posting anonymously to dodge Karma burns ;) )

      Ok everyone seems to agree that Yoper doesn't really have anything special. It's just slackware + alien... Also I guess I'm not the only one here finding the catchphrase "Your Operating System!" just super cheesy... Also, what's with their product page [yoper.com]? A huge PNG image? Doesn't even look good...

      I have no problem with people trying to make money selling Linux. But do they have to insist so much on the Yoper(TM) all over the place. The domain is of course a dot-com, the first link on their navigation menu is "Store"... Sorry but half of my BS alarm have already been tripped...

      But I get specially annoyed when due credit isn't given. Where is the page that says that their YDesktop is just KDE with the nice "K" replaced by an ugly "Y" [yoper.com]? But I'm sure you will easily find the page where you can order "YDesktop Pack 1.0 for only $98"... I mean, their pages hardly mention it's a linux distro. Let's play a game: try to count how many times the word "Linux" appears on their site...

      We could go on about how their site should be nominated for www.webpagesthatsuck.com (check the "About" link at the top... that actually takes you to the FAQ... Hello? HTML formatting anyone?), how their "user community" seems to have a count of 3 (oh but wait, these 3 are actully just flaming the distro [yoper.com] on its own boards...)...

      Ok, so if we agree Yoper kinda sucks...

      so the question is, how in h*ll did they make it to #1 on Distrowatch [distrowatch.com]?

      *cough*cheaters*cough*faking*chough*hits*cough*. ..
      • I do not know about cheating. Maybe they just get a lot of hits because it is a new distribution and they are getting some good press coverage lately. But you do raise some interesting points...

        We have not seen many, if any, pro-Yoper postings yet. Anyone for some good words about Yoper? Or does Yoper just "kinda sucks" as the parent writes?

      • Re:Yoper not just dull, but actually fishy... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by frozencesium ( 591780 ) on Thursday March 06, 2003 @10:52AM (#5448756) Journal
        of course, they ARE in the middle of a flame war with the /. crowd...and i quoteth:

        yoper (site admin):
        We compiled, tested, packaged, compiled, tested, packaged, compiled, tested, packaged. Until one of you actually tries it how can you even start talking. It is a complete new Linux not based on anything else, targetting the i686 business market. You nerds arenot our business. You nerds are no ones business and this is the reason why as a community we fail to fight M$ properly. After years of dev you could have actually given it an objective go instead of slagging it off and blindly comparing it to slackware only because it was posted on /. in the same article as slackware. Ignorance is bliss. Stay in your matrix and stay blind. This is a business and not a charity organization for brainless and gutless chickens that fill a forum up with junk. Stay with your Linux and leave us alone. Business users need us, since they are sick of YOU. We do not need brainless nerds with too much time on their hand. We need businesses who want to save time and money and save their behind from having to hire you.

        1.) release new distro
        2.) post article
        3.) flame /.'ers
        4.) no profit!!!

        seriously...what idiot release a distro then flames the comunity that supports it?

        -frozen
        • I was sorta suspicious about this post, thought maybe the poster was trolling or outright fasifying his post (note the lack of a link), but then I found this link [yoper.com] on their official phpbb forums page. Turns out they *did* flame the people they need supporting them. That's a direct quote. See for yourself.

          I gotta say, when I saw this article, the first thing I thought was "Yoper? What's that?" So I looked at the website. I thought to myself, hey, I might try that. Good idea with the Yoperize thingy, if they ever show how it could be done. Then I saw this post.

          I'm all for trying to market Linux and make money off it, but this flame shows the true colors of the bunch that run Yoper. Avoid this distro with every ounce of your will.

  • gentoo for me:) (Score:3, Interesting)

    by dcstimm ( 556797 ) on Thursday March 06, 2003 @12:06AM (#5446752) Homepage
    Gentoo is a great distro, but i wouldnt recommend it to any newbies... Slackware is also a fun distro to use, but gentoo has better package management.

    • Re:gentoo for me:) (Score:4, Insightful)

      by exhilaration ( 587191 ) on Thursday March 06, 2003 @12:17AM (#5446802)
      I agree - Gentoo not only has excellent BSD-style package management, a performance-tuned kernel is also available.

      You can always install the "vanilla sources" kernel, but come on - don't you want to experience the latest experimental performance patches to the kernel? SURE YA DO! Gentoo is a "bleeding edge" distro.

      And no, it's not for beginners, but it is great for someone who'd like to learn more about Linux.

    • Re:gentoo for me:) (Score:3, Interesting)

      by mvdw ( 613057 )
      Gentoo is not for me. I tried it a while ago, and it installed well, and went well, until I did an "emerge kdemultimedia", which then went ahead and upgraded almost the entire system over dialup, breaking the installation in the process. Back to Slack, where I can again have a rock solid box where I know what's in it, and can make my own decisions about what to upgrade (or not).

    • Re:gentoo for me:) (Score:5, Interesting)

      by sabinm ( 447146 ) on Thursday March 06, 2003 @01:06AM (#5447062) Homepage Journal
      I must disagree about Gentoo not being for Newbies. I think that Gentoo is the ultimate distro for Newbies. The instructions are direct and concise, with real world examples. Their forums are professionally moderated and updated frequently with users of varying degrees of experience. The difficult part is making sure that your kernel is configured just right, but a person with commodity hardware could install Gentoo on his/her system and be up and running within one day of compiling.

      Red Hat' documentation is erratic at best and not easily navigable. SuSe was useful as soon as I figured out the correct path to download the distro from FTP. Mandrake didn't cut it for me. Believe me, I shopped around. I PURCHASED Red Hat at every new milestone release up to 7.2. I was really liking the way Gnome was looking on 7.2 Red Hat, and then they went and screwed up everything with 8.0. That was the most difficult distro for me, not becuase of the difficulty in understanding linux (although I am an intermediate user at best), but because it was so difficult to get *under the hood* to change anything. I used 8.0 for about two days and started hunting for a new Linux distro. I even went to Yellow Dog to be loyal to Red Hat, but found it to be wanting.

      Gentoo was by far the easiest to configure, straightforward to understand and helpful in documentation. The first attempt was a disaster, the second attempt booted right up. The third attempt, on my 700 mhz Ibook was a total sucess with very minor cosmetic glitches. I can't praise Gentoo enough for making a Linux OS for the masses. Don't let anyone fool you: Gentoo is easy and configurable up the wazoo. I've never been more pleased with a linux distro. I'm only dissapointed that I didn't discover Gentoo until a few months ago. I would even be willing to sell gentoo on a prebuilt system-THAT's how much I like it. I've never sold linux on a prebuilt system because I make custom systems. I'd always burn some CD's to let others TRY it, but I"d install gentoo on any system that wanted it, it is so simple to use. I think that a CD with a stage 4 tarball and Unreal on it would sell to more people that would want it. I was even considering writing Gentoo to see if they would be willing to do tarball specifically for Nvidia's Cinema Platform with MythTV or something of the sort. Anyway, this is too long of a ramble. The short, no Gentoo is not for everyone, but its sheer simplicity is mindboggling.

      • Re:gentoo for me:) (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Ledskof ( 169553 ) on Thursday March 06, 2003 @01:33AM (#5447168)
        I agree. People label gentoo as newbie-unfriendly because you don't just pop in a CD and stare at pretty pictures for 30 minutes, then reboot straight into X and start browsing the web. A lot of people seem to think that a newbie-friendly linux should be a MS Windows desktop replacement.

        Gentoo definitely gives the power user as much control as they need, but it's not as if a newbie has to utilize all of this from the getgo.

        Someone who is truly interested in learning a unix-like os but not exactly ready to start configuring and compiling sources is given a break with gentoo.

        For anyone not familiar with any kind of ports tree... They've developed a software tree based on (i think it's based on it at least) the BSD ports system. They have a set of autobuild scripts that will download, configure, compile, and install the software for you, automatically, just by using the emerge tool. Ex:
        #emerge vi

        When it finishes you'll be able to run vi.

        Anyhow, even if you are a newbie, give Gentoo a shot.
        read more about it here:
        http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/about.xml

        • Re:gentoo for me:) (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Zork the Almighty ( 599344 ) on Thursday March 06, 2003 @03:50AM (#5447529) Journal
          I almost agree, except I think it depends on how you want to learn. Some people learn top-down, they want to see the finished product and gradually learn about more and more details. In the meantime, they have a fully functional computer. For people like this, Gentoo is probably not the best choice: they would be better served by Mandrake / Redhat / etc, or even Debian (if they can handle the kernel modules.

          However, if you are installing linux on a second computer or something (so you can afford having only a command line initially), then you can take your time and build everything from the bottom up. In this case, Gentoo is probably about the best possible distribution you could imagine.

          My experience was Gentoo (didn't set up X) -> Mandrake (rpm hell) -> Debian :) . I will probably keep my main computer on Debian for quite some time. However, for my second computer (mostly a server) I will most certainly return to Gentoo.
      • Gentoo was by far the easiest to configure, straightforward to understand and helpful in documentation. The first attempt was a disaster, the second attempt booted right up. The third attempt, on my 700 mhz Ibook was a total sucess with very minor cosmetic glitches.

        Doesn't sound so newbie-friendly after all. Do you think newbies will bother after the first disaster? Or tolerate minor cosmetic glitches after three tries? They'll demand something that just works.
      • Also documentation needs some work.

        I had to leave gentoo because I lost the gentoo1.3 installation instructions and all I could find were the gentoo 1.4beta. Appearently the stable instructions were gone??? So I downloaded the beta and had lots of headaches and bugs because it wasn't stable. I ended up finding the old instructions in german and using bable fish to translate them back into english to use the 1.3 iso images.

        eg.....init steam deisel engine stages
        1.) etc/zerhite.d -holds soft animal scripts
        2.) etc/net.conf - network tcp/ip stream rivers .......

        yuck. I ended up figuring out how to configure the system but when I complained on the gentoo message forum I was labeled as a troll and banned???

        Anyway my old motherboard was flaky with the current linux kernels and could not shutdown properly. I had to physically unplug my computer after a shutdown to gain access to my keyboard even upon a cold reboot. All the recent distro's did this besides debian.

        I switched to FreeBSD because I liked the ports and the stableness. The keyboard lockup bug went away. It also had the correct versions of software I needed for school installed by default and had great documentation. Gentoo is kind of bleeding edge and a little too disorganized for my taste. There is no execuse for the documentation flop. All the developers told me 1.4rc was stable enough and yet this was almost 6 months before it was labeled stable. Obviously it wasn't ready and they should of kept the instructions for 1.3.

        Because of this I would not recommend gentoo to a newbie. I recommend redhat or suse due to their ease of use and standardness. If they really want to learn unix and not just play around with it I recommend FreeBSD because of the excellent book that comes with it.

        I heard good things about slackware. My question is does slackware have the great book it once had 4 or 5 years ago that everyone raved about?

  • Slackware is always quick to pick up the latest (Score:5, Informative)

    by Xpilot ( 117961 ) on Thursday March 06, 2003 @12:07AM (#5446754) Homepage
    Latest GCC, latest stable kernel, latest GNOME, latest KDE, latest Xfree86, and yet solid as a rock :)
    • What's wrong with you guys, I'm still wiping my eyes. Keep the funny posts coming!

    • Re:Slackware is always quick to pick up the latest (Score:4, Interesting)

      by SteelX ( 32194 ) on Thursday March 06, 2003 @01:45AM (#5447211)
      I use Slackware on a daily basis. I love it, but one trend that I observe (which could be improved) is this:

      1. Official Slackware release.
      2. Stable branch gets updated at warp speed.. once new software comes out or security fixes become available, the stable branch has it first.
      3. After a while, current branch starts. Now current branch gets updated at warp speed.
      4. Stable branch looks like it's forgotten. Doesn't get updates for months (except for very critical security fixes).

      I tend to update my stuff using the stable branch and it's disappointing to see it being "forgotten." Of course I understand that stable is supposed to mean what it is - stable - but it would still be good to see updates on a more frequent basis.

      Sure, there are unofficial packages on places like www.linuxpackages.net but I trust the official ones a lot more. And being a typical Slackware user, I compile heaps of stuff and create home-made Slackware packages all the time.. but there are certain things like glibc that I'd rather leave alone.

      I used to update from the current branch but this particular current branch from 8.1->9.0 is a huge leap (the gcc change) so it couldn't be done this time.

  • OSNews (Score:5, Insightful)

    by colin_n ( 50370 ) on Thursday March 06, 2003 @12:09AM (#5446765) Homepage Journal
    Yoper has already been discussed thoroughly in an OSNews feedback thread [osnews.com] and it has been decided that a lot of their claims are duds or dont quite work and they dont add anything visually pleasing to the distro. Everything Yoper looks like crap. Dont believe me, check out their screenshots [yoper.com]. That Y instead of the K looks terrible.
    • well, try it for yourself. i ahve, and i really liked it. not for the power users, but its installs well, runs mostly off the install, and is really fast....

      xao
    • They went from no one ever hearing them to having their first beta version capture number one distrowatch.

      Any linux company that has the nerve to rig distrowatch just to gain attention for their alpha is pretty sad and more importantly not to be trusted.

      If they didn't do it, then why are they crowing about it on their website? So either they A) did it and are stupid enough to gloat about it, or B) didn't do it, but are stupid enough to think their prerelease OS is now the most widely used one ahead of Redhat, Mandrake et al out of the nowhere.

      I smell a PR driven company like Lindows who will do anything for a buck.
  • My fave distro is on its final release candidate before it goes final. There seems to be an issue with DHCP and DNS, but I've heard upgrading from a 9.0 install works fine. I had to manually add the default route to my LinkSys router and an entry in /etc/resolv.conf for DNS. Worked like a charm after that. Anyway, give it a whirl. 9.1 has all the bells and whistles (XF86 4.3.0, KDE 3.1, Gnome 2.2, etc.)

  • Yay for the slack... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by japetto_bootsnakes ( 588410 ) on Thursday March 06, 2003 @12:12AM (#5446776)
    Yay for the Slack. I can't say I have never deviated, but I always come back for more. Pat's still doin' it for those who want to run linux for all the right reasons...

    • Re:Yay for the slack... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ankit ( 70020 ) on Thursday March 06, 2003 @12:17AM (#5446803) Homepage Journal
      yay! me too!!!

      But its not for everyone. I guess this is a generation thing (lol). Most people from the pre-redhat/windows days continue to admire the simplicity and elegance of slackware. I just dont see a new linux adopter choosing the "plain and dry" slackware over anything else. Maybe in 10 years, people wont even open consoles anymore. But I for one cant live without a shell prompt the rest of my life....

      Just count the number of *dumb* "slackware is dead" posts!
      • Well, when you want a system to run exactly the way you want it, Debian's not the answer. Slack is. You set it up with minimalist stuff, set up the server(s) and log out. Log in ONLY for bug patches.

        It'll run for months on end, or until you need to upgrade it. Really, it's best for 1 solid server. Web, mail, SMB, NFS. you name it, but I'd have each box with its own server (unless you're really cutting corners).
        • The server connected to the cable modem under the end table in the living room was running for 167 days until my roommate was dusting and accidentally hit the power button (and even then acpid did a clean shutdown). I had it connected to the stereo and the TV, had 3 NICs in it, routed between 2 subnets, had a webcam, apache, smb, nfs, named, pure-ftpd, cups, and VNC running on a Duron 750 with Slackware 8.1.

          Not that Slackware is the only distro that could do that, but still, it can keep up with the latest and greatest.
      • I just dont see a new linux adopter choosing the "plain and dry" slackware over anything else.

        Call me a masochist, but when I decided to run Linux, I just downloaded Slack 4 (over a 28.8!!) and installed it. Hm. Yea. I was a masochist. Ok, nothin' to see here. Move along.

        Of course, I learned how to use linux *real* fast like that :)

  • Nothing different (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ObviousGuy ( 578567 ) <ObviousGuy@hotmail.com> on Thursday March 06, 2003 @12:12AM (#5446778) Homepage Journal
    We've got all these different distributions of Linux, but nothing seems to separate one from another. This one's got standardized app installing. This one's got a nice OS install script. This one's got a better app installation system. This one can use all the different installation systems.

    Whatever. There simply isn't any value added by any of these distributions.

    Which one stands head and shoulders above the rest? Any suggestions?
    • Well, I'm pretty partial to Red Hat.

      1) I like RPM. Yes, apt-get is cool, but apt4rpm helps even the odds.

      2) I like GNOME - Red Hat is a bit more "tuned" to GNOME.

      3) They're well catered-to. They've very popular, so a lot of OSS and commercial projects alike target Red Hat as one of their supported distros.

      4) They're sane. I think they tend to make some of the best strategic decisions for Linux, both short term and long term, and it's reflected, for the better, by their distro.

      5) Use of spooky, mysterious logo reaffirms my masculinity. Can you REALLY feel like you're the Alpha Male when your distro has a logo like this? [linux-mandrake.com]
      • Oh, and lest I forget, Red Hat's new system config tools kick ass. Having the option to go in and dig through text files is an important necessity, but having the option to NOT HAVE to dig through more damn text files is nice, too!
    • Whatever. There simply isn't any value added by any of these distributions.


      Isn't that application dependent?

      • I am a power user, and I am using Gentoo here on my laptop -- like butter.
      • At the physics cluster here, they use Red Hat 8.0, because they need a set of standardized binaries, and didn't want to invest the time to work out the kinks themselves.
      • At my group back in undergrad, the PhDs had zero time for administration, so they installed Debian and never looked back.
      • (etc. ...)


      What matters is that a distro a) does what it promises and b) is interoperable with other distros.

      Requirement (b) is already handled by tarballs for most distros, and also in some by the low overhead in creating packages for them (e.g., Gentoo).

      Requirement (a) is really what separates the distros. We'll see how Yoper fares. If two distros occupy the same niche, the better engineered one will win (well, hype not withstanding ...).

      • Re:Nothing different (Score:3, Interesting)

        by On Lawn ( 1073 )
        I agree 100%. I put the distros on a scale this way...

        RYO --- Gentoo --- Debian --- Redhat

        Thats from the most "have it your way" on the left to the most "I don't know what my way is" to "my boss wants it his way" on the right. Slackware fits somewhere on there, but its used in so many different ways I couldn't place it in one specific point.

        The value added is being able to have it your way, or being able to rest on the rock solid attempts of others. That Linux interoperates so well yet has distros that cater to each crowd is more then commendable.

        They are interoperable enough in principle. We do have a Redhat box here at work running a Gentoo kernel for the NFS/TCP patches. I have rpm's running on my Gentoo box. But niether of those were easy.

        --------------
        OnRoad [onlawn.net]: It gets you there and back again
      • I am a power user, and I am using Gentoo here on my laptop -- like butter.

        I prefer the taste of real, creamy butter on my laptop.

    • This is why linux is so great in general.

      You may label these distributions as no added value, but in reality, we're receiving 100 distributions trying their darndest to try and keep up with everyone else.

      Each distribution _is_ frighteningly similar to the next, but it's because the competition is so cut throat, that they must ALL have these added values, or they will drop like flies..

      Seriously, name 1 of the top 10 linux distros that didn't borrow a big feature from another distro! It's impossible, because the community is so tight, and the information sharing is at it's peak. Don't you just love it when freedom of information makes things better for everyone? =)
    • There simply isn't any value added by any of these distributions.

      Hey! One of these distros is Slackware!

      If you're going to bitch about too many distros not differentiating themselves, then bitch about SuSE, Redhat, Mandrake, Lindows, etc., because Slackware was there first.

      That's right, Slackware was around before any of these other newcomers were even thought of. It wasn't the first distro, but those one or two that were older are no longer around.

  • Grr... (Score:5, Informative)

    by BRTB ( 30272 ) <slashdot&brtb,org> on Thursday March 06, 2003 @12:15AM (#5446792) Homepage
    Ya know, ftp.slackware.com had JUST quieted down enough for the -current mirrors to rsync to a reasonably-recent version. At least I grabbed everything up to when Patrick threw in the Sendmail fix....

  • Yoper= Slackware + alien? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by civad ( 569109 ) on Thursday March 06, 2003 @12:16AM (#5446798)
    I am too tempted to agree.
    Having tried both Slackware and Yoper for sometime, I think here are some things to note that might try to differentiate the two distros:

    a. Installation process- let me say that typing something like "yoper" to start the installation process of an OS is...um...different. But then, there is no rule/law which says that one *must* use the term "setup".. :). Also, one cannot get to choose the packages to install in Yoper.

    b. Default Desktop: Slackware offers a choice. Yoper doesn't. I personally prefer XFCE (just a matter of choice, nothing personal against KDE), something that Yoper does not provide by itself.

    c. Under the hood, there is no noticable difference between the two distros. They both have similar package menagement

    • Re:Yoper= Slackware + alien? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Bronster ( 13157 ) <slashdot@brong.net> on Thursday March 06, 2003 @12:34AM (#5446912) Homepage
      I just like the way that the Yoper people claim that it's the most stable system they've used for 20 years, and then turn around and point out that the current version is a release candidate with a testing version of KDE installed and that if you want stability they suggest you don't install KDE. ... which sort of defeats the purpose of running Yoper rather than any other distro - the big difference between the distributions is how well they integrate the desktop environments and how sensible and stable their defaults are (not to mention linking tools against the desktop environments if possible for a cleaner behaviour).

  • what? (Score:2, Redundant)

    by spoon42 ( 41389 )

    Yoper. Right.

    Shouldn't last long, with an 80k PNG of text [yoper.com].

    Aside from that, they use alien to import other distros' packages, set CFLAGS, and possibly want to become the next Lindows... (from the about page)


    What is the purpose of Yoper?


    Yoper has not been designed to compete with or replace existing Linux distros. However, it will be used to support commercial conversions of office software from Windows to Yoper. These conversions will be done by trained and certified professionals within the Yoper franchise. Most technical issues with conversion can be resolved quickly by typing a few commands or running a few purpose built scripts. We prefer this method to having to develop and support an auto-detection system, that in time itself will become increasingly difficult to support.


    So, what?

    Other than yet another distro. Possibly with delusions of grandeur. And they seem to want your money.

    • Re:what? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by mao che minh ( 611166 )
      You have to admit, Linux is getting big in business, and it doesn't hurt to aim for the heavens. Aggressive business models work better then passive ones, and Yoper certaingly seems to want to be aggressive. IBM gained a cool billion by aggressively confronting not only their UNIX competition, but also their Linux business partners.

      That said, I would still rather throw my money and/or support towards distributions that have been treating the community good for the past 5 or more years (Slack, Redhat, Mandrake when they aren't looking for a handout, and Suse).

    • the "minimum" RAM requirement of 128mb?

      Agreed. Seems like someone wants to be a RedHat wannabe minus the ingenuity. Oh well.

  • Quick review (Score:4, Informative)

    by FullCircle ( 643323 ) on Thursday March 06, 2003 @12:23AM (#5446840)
    This version is very stable for a first release candidate. It also includes the newest packages such as KDE3.1, XFree 4.3.0 and Kernel 2.4.20. Ok, the kernel is not up to the minute, but it is damn close.

    It still has a text based installer, so this isn't a mass market distro. Fortunately it is one of the best text based installers around. It is fairly complete and drop dead easy as long as you don't mind using fdisk to partition.

    A couple of sticking points were that you have to know which kernel you need for your system. To make things worse, it gives little indication what drivers are compiled into which kernel!

    A simple help button with a list of supported hardware per kernel would have been a welcome addition.

    Once installed, you have no choice to login to X. You are dropped to a prompt with only the root user. You must add users after installation and configure xdm, gdm or kdm manually.

    X was installed with only vesa support. This is enough to get X up and running with only a startx, but even supported cards are not configured.

    The KDE desktop I tried seemed tacked on. There was little integration with the underlying OS. There are no configuration tools for the OS, only for KDE.

    I guess I should say that there ARE configuration tools, but they don't work with Slack out of the box. The SysV tool is a good example.

    There is little in the way of a package manager. There is pkgtool, but dependency is hit and miss. There is really no checking done.

    Don't get me wrong, for all it's faults, I love Slackware and this is as up-to-date a distro as you can get. It is also the closest thing to a binary form of Linux From Scratch that you will find.

    I like it, but then I have used *nix for years. For a newbie, keep looking.

    • Re:Quick review (Score:4, Informative)

      by Arandir ( 19206 ) on Thursday March 06, 2003 @02:46AM (#5447351) Homepage Journal
      X was installed with only vesa support. This is enough to get X up and running with only a startx, but even supported cards are not configured ... The KDE desktop I tried seemed tacked on. There was little integration with the underlying OS. There are no configuration tools for the OS, only for KDE.

      Well duh! Perhaps you aren't used to the Slackware way of doing things. When you get XFree86-4.3.0, you get Xfree86-4.3.0, not Mandrake's or Redhat's vision of what it is supposed to be. When you get KDE-3.1, you get KDE-3.1, and not LIndow's or Xandros idea of what KDE really should be.

      Slackware doesn't muck around with other people's projects. That is a Good Thing(tm).

      XFree86 comes with support for all supported cards it supports. You just need to configure it. Why doesn't Slackware come with it's own X configuration tools? Because X already comes with its own! Use them! Hint: "Xfree86 -setup" or "xf86setup".

      KDE doesn't have a lot of configuration tools for the underlying OS, because there are a thousand and one underlying systems that it supports. Slackware isn't going to create their own, because they already have some. They just don't have a pretty KDE shell around them. Why doesn't KSysV work? Because Slackware doesn't use SysV!

      In short, with Slackware you get the goods, the whole goods, but NOTHING BUT the goods. They don't change the K to a Y, or the Foot to a Hat.

      It is also the closest thing to a binary form of Linux From Scratch that you will find.

      And that's why I love it! If you want an distro that will hold your hand while you go the toilet, this is not it. On the other hand, if you want a distro that will treat you with respect and keep out of your way, then you can't beat Slackware.
      • "On the other hand, if you want a distro that will treat you with respect and keep out of your way, then you can't beat Slackware."

        Well put.

        We know the weak/strong points of this distro and how to work with them but others may hear our praise and think Slackware would be a good introduction to Linux, get confused and go away with a bad impression. To the uneducated Slack is a horrible intro to OSS. I wanted to give an unbiased impression to those who need it.

        Everyone seems to think that I've never used Slack, or that I went into this install with the expectation it would be a Lindows clone.

        I've used Slackware on and off for years, but I am still open minded enough to see where improvements can be made without damaging the good things.

        Why should I not want the kernel README available when I actually need it? Because it's more hardcore to dig for it?

        How about taking a guess at your video card based on the PCI id or having a configure X option if you installed the packages? As you said, it is already included, but not in the menu.

        From the defensiveness shown, it looks like the review was right on the mark.

        • Everyone seems to think that I've never used Slack

          That indeed was my impression. My apologies for treating you like a Lindows user.

          How about taking a guess at your video card based on the PCI id or having a configure X option if you installed the packages? As you said, it is already included, but not in the menu.

          What menu are you talking about? I'm assuming the installation menu. An option to configure XFree86 during installation would be nice, I agree. But setting it up is really very easy nowadays.

          "XFree86 -setup" will detect your card based on PCI id. If it can't determine the card, it will default to vesa. If you want more fine control (and all Slack users do), then xf86config will let you go through step by step.

          From the defensiveness shown, it looks like the review was right on the mark.

          The defensiveness shown was because I thought you were a Lindows/Xandros/Mandrake user arguing that Slackware should be dumbed down to the Lindows/Xandros/Mandrake level. Of course that hit a hot button!

          What does Slackware need right now? The only thing I can think of is a better package manager. There have been a few moves in that direction. Notice that the packages are now versioned, for instance.
          • To add to your thoughts about packages: very recently slackware-current packages started to be signed with gpg. That will definitely help.

  • I've been using the Slackware-Current (9 beta) (Score:3, Interesting)

    by farrellj ( 563 ) on Thursday March 06, 2003 @12:24AM (#5446845) Homepage Journal
    And it is rock solid...except I am having problems with the aRTS sound daemon...I just can't get it to run on an IBM NetVista with an i810 chipset. Esound works fine, and so does going direct OSS.

    ttyl
    Farrell

    Slackware user since 2.3 or so...Hail Bob and Hail Eris!

  • Check out KNOPPIX ! (Score:3, Informative)

    by MrNybbles ( 618800 ) on Thursday March 06, 2003 @12:26AM (#5446854) Journal
    Try downloading a distro of KNOPPIX. Check out http://www.knoppix.org/ and http://www.osef.org/ .

    Just make sure you select English as your language before you boot (unless you injoy using Linux with a German attitude.)

    This distro of Linux is geared more twards grade school students, but it is still a very good distro and it runs compleatly from the CD. Good for those who just don't want to commit a hard drive to Linux but want to use it.

    • Uh (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      If you download the '-en' version of the ISO, it's default language is English.

  • I disagree (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Somnus ( 46089 ) on Thursday March 06, 2003 @12:31AM (#5446891)
    Whatever. There simply isn't any value added by any of these distributions.

    Isn't that application dependent?
    • I am a power user, and I am using Gentoo here on my laptop -- like butter.
    • At the physics cluste here, they use Red Hat 8.0, because they need a set of standardized binaries, and didnn't want to invest the time to work out the kinks themselves.
    • At my group back in undergrad, the PhDs had zero time for administration, so they installed Debian and never looked back.
    • (etc. ...)

    What matters is that a distro a) does what it promises and b) is interoperable with other distros.

    Requirement (b) is already handled by tarballs for most distros, and also in some by the low overhead in creating packages for them (e.g., Gentoo).

    Requirement (a) is really what separates the distros.

  • Dropline GNOME for Slackware (Score:5, Informative)

    by fflewddur ( 103280 ) <(ten.enilpord) (ta) (ddot)> on Thursday March 06, 2003 @12:44AM (#5446959) Homepage
    And of course, don't forget to checkout Dropline GNOME for Slackware. It's a GNOME-based desktop, similar to Ximian GNOME--instead of the plain GNOME packages shipped with slackware, you get an interface that has been tweaked to near-perfection and tons of extras (such as PAM support, allowing normal users to perform "root" tasks such as setting the time and date, and FAM, making Nautilus show up-to-date view of your file system) to make your desktop truely usable. You can learn more at www.dropline.net/gnome [dropline.net].

    (And yes, I'm the main Dropline developer, so this is a bit of a plug and should be interpreted as such...)
  • It's bold and smooth, uncompromising.
    [slackware.com]
    Observe, no trendy Camel, no babes idling on the beach. One look, and you know why geeks flock to the Slackware label.

    It's the LAMP baby, so light it up, kick back, and enjoy the pure flavor.

  • slackware 9.0rc1 isos (Score:5, Informative)

    by ananke ( 8417 ) on Thursday March 06, 2003 @12:52AM (#5447003)
    Before peoiple start asking, there is NO official iso for rc1 yet. However, plenty of people make them, and if you're interested, you can visit #slackware on irc.freenode.net, or some other slackware channel. I'll be happy to provide you with the iso i make on a regular basis.

    In addition, slackware.com has very limited bandwith. Be gentle with it, use one of the mirrors. It's hard for those mirrors to sync the updates regularly as it is.

    For those who wonder, if upgrading from 8.1 to 9.0rc1 is possible - yes, it is. I don't think there's an official document that specifically talks about 8.x to 9.0 upgrade. If you're interested, please be careful, and backup of course. [i just upgraded live 8.1 to 9.0rc1 two days ago, and here are few things to keep in mind:

    - upgradepkg [--install-new sometimes] is your friend
    - upgradepkg /a/glibc* first
    - next couple packages to upgrade are /a/sed*, /a/elflibs*, /a/pkgtools*
    - keep couple terminals open, with some tools in memory, say midnight commander. they may save your life if needed
    - for people with nvidia cards, if you upgrade xfree to 4.3, you probably should also recompile the nvidia drivers, and install nvidia glx stuff. for that, you'll have to have kernel compiled with your fresh new compiler [gcc3.2.2].

    To sum it up, if you're interested, visit #slackware on irc.freenode.net, and somebody may answer your questions. Slackware 9.0rc1 works well, and as slackware goes - it is very stable, simple and elegant.

  • Ease of update (Score:5, Informative)

    by azaze1 ( 597798 ) on Thursday March 06, 2003 @01:08AM (#5447077)

    Slackware 8.1 is currently my linux distro of choice. I've used redhat, debian, gentoo, and mandrake (for about 20 min) in the past. But I settled on Slackware because, like FreeBSD, its easier to figure out what is going on behind the system, and why. The /etc/rc.d directory is very easy to follow and understand.

    My ONLY complaint with slackware is installing new software, and updating existing software. I don't mind the source approach, but I wish it implemented FreeBSD's ports, or emerge from Gentoo, or something similar. Basically, some option to update or install something with minimal effort. I would have stuck with gentoo if it didn't change /etc so radically. Learning Gentoo is like learning a whole new flavor of unix, rather than "another linux distro".

    Does anyone know if slackware plans on coming up with its own package or source based install/update solution akin to FBSD's ports, pkg_add, or gentoo's emerge, or debian's apt-get? Something that settles dependencies.

    -Robert

  • Who are the retards behind Yoper? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by SanityInAnarchy ( 655584 ) <ninja@slaphack.com> on Thursday March 06, 2003 @01:29AM (#5447161) Journal

    Excuse the language, but I want people to notice this. On the "About" page, this is just two things I noticed on their "features" list:

    Mozilla from Netscape Ltd.
    OpenOffice from SUN.

    I have sent them an email demanding that they change these -- Netscape is based on Mozilla and SUN has something called StarOffice, based on OpenOffice. My reason given for the demand was that slashdotters would obviously notice this and make the same demand, flooding their email.

    So, come on, Slashdotters, start the email! At the very least we want:

    Mozilla from Mozilla.org
    OpenOffice from OpenOffice.org

    or

    Netscape from Netscape Ltd.
    StarOffice from SUN.

    Of course, considering the level of intelligence here, this appears to be a bunch of clever hackers without the cleverness.

    • Re:Who are the retards behind Yoper? (Score:4, Informative)

      by HerbieStone ( 64244 ) on Thursday March 06, 2003 @09:41AM (#5448397) Homepage
      No, you are wrong.

      Mozilla's main support still comes from Netscape... the Company Netscape. So even tho the Netscape Browser 6.xx is based on Mozilla, Mozilla itself is in major parts still Netscape, the company.

      Star Office has been bought by Sun. Now Star Office has a price-tag on it. To give people a free version of it, they packaged Open Office. So Star Office isn't based Open Office it's the other way arround.

  • Slackware 9? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Spacelord ( 27899 ) on Thursday March 06, 2003 @04:30AM (#5447635)
    Oh damn .... and I just finished upgrading my workstation from 8.0 to 8.1
  • I use Slackware 8.1 on my desktop and server. I checked slackware-current and I don't understand one thing. Why there is no single movie player in Slackware? IMHO mplayer is quite stable. I compile most applications myself, but I think it would be nice to have "everything important" on CD (or CDs).
    • IMHO the whole point about MPlayer is that it's well optimized for your system. Other players don't seem to focus on this enough, but they may be relying on binary distributions for fast machines for which the optimization doesn't matter that much.

  • What about emerge? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by WebMasterJoe ( 253077 ) <joe@UUUjoestoner.com minus threevowels> on Thursday March 06, 2003 @09:51AM (#5448447) Homepage Journal
    "With Yoper it is possible to import packages from all the other major distros including rpm's, deb's, and tgz packages."

    That's all well and good that Yopy can import rpms and debs, but how about emerge? I have spent time with RedHat, SuSE, and Gentoo, and while I like SuSE best, I dearly miss being able to emerge rsync && emerge kde when the latest and greatest comes out, and everything just works beautifully. It takes a while, but opening an ssh from work and using screen (emerge screen) gives my home computer eight hours of otherwise idle time.

    Has anybody here had any under-the-hood experience with emerge? Can it be added to other distros? I wonder if it would be able to upgrade a Mozilla install that was done by another method (such SuSE's installation method), or if it can only work with its own stuff, so to speak. If not, I may be going back to Gentoo, I miss emerge so much. And there's something very satisfying about bootstrapping. It just takes so long to compile everything from source.

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