Mandrake Appealing to Community, Again

An anonymous reader writes "It seems that MandrakeSoft's short-term financial problem is worse than was thought. A new page on the Mandrake web site says: 'Everyone who is concerned with the company's future is encouraged to read and distribute the following message. In order to reach the next release, MandrakeSoft currently needs to raise cash, and quickly complete the Increase of Capital.' Darn, and I thought they were almost over this hump. Looks like a good time to help recruit Mandrake supporters for the Club."

well...

[mut3]

they made money with selling the box distros, but that is certianly not enough for all the iso downloads. they make a soild distro, so giving them some cash would be good.

Boxed Sets

[xombo]

I remember my first Linux Distro... It was Mandrake 6.0. It is the best one I've ever used, for it's bare-bones Red Hat compatability and ease of use. They are missing the boat by trying to compete with people like Red Hat because they know they can't steal Red Hat users. RH users are dedicated to RH and usually revere Mandrake as child's play. Mandrake needs to re-evaluate their position and make themselves a Linux for the working man who doesn't have the time to sit around for hours making it work.

Re:Thinning the herd

[Hanna's Goblin Toys]

This is called the "Prisoner's Dillema". It's the reason people don't do a lot of small things, from vote to stop tailgating in traffic. It's because they think that no one will co-operate with them, and their action will be futile.

Don't give in to the prisoner's dillema. Always do the right thing, and others will follow.

Enough is enough...

[tongue]

You know, the first time around, I gave, even though i didn't really have the cash. I considered it a good cause. At this point, that is becoming less and less so. First of all, they appeal over and over to people who already give and give. It reminds me of the kids in my neighborhood who are always hitting up the same neighbors for their candy sales, xmas card sales, donut sales, bake sales, and any other kind of fundraiser the den mothers can come up with. at some point, i get damn tired of buying crap off these kids, no matter how good a cause it is. Mandrake is the same way. I don't even use Mandrake anymore and i still gave last time around.

Why don't they focus more on people who AREN'T already customers? do what real companies do--SELL SHIT! Yeah, yeah, i know they sell free software. so does redhat, they do alright. lindows seems to be making out alright, and i don't think they're as good a desktop as mandrake is. start holding the distribution ransom--don't release a major upgrade until you're operating in the black or something. but i swear to god if you don't quit whining and begging for money i'm switching back to windows! (ok, maybe not that far, but i'm definitely sticking with gentoo from now on.)

The economics of the distro market

[Ars-Fartsica]

The economics of valud-added distribution of a free product are intersting indeed. Maybe the best analogue is the market for bottled water - take a free product that is easily obtained, although not always in the best form, and package it for consumption.

In any case, I don't see any viable market model for Mandrake. Even if someone were to pursue the Red-Hat aftermarket, its probably something best left to volunteers. The real competition here is in diversity - I am much more interested in (for example) Gentoo vs. Red Hat then Mandrake vs Red Hat.

What value does Mandrake add?

[dnoyeb]

What special does mandrake add that requires their existence?

With Redhat I can see they contribute to developing software that hits the community. I use redhat so I know that much, but could someone elinghten me on the value added by Mandrake?

You gotta provide a distinct service if you want to stay alive. I dont even pay redhat but I am considering joining the premium download club as one of my charitable efforts.

Yes their for profit, but their is nothign wrong with donating to a for-profit if their heart is right.

***Besides, if you never donate to _anything_, you can never withdraw your donation support in protest of bad decisions.***

Yeah its sad and all..

[antis0c]

But why continue to throw money into toilet? It's already started flushing man, get out while you can. When a company begins a downward spiral like this, the first instinct it to start throwing some money into it, putting out fires here and there. However the damage is too much and without a huge investment, and I'm talking more than the Slashdot community could ever raise, its going to continue all the way down.

A second point to be made in this is Mandrake is a company. When they start begging for money like this to save the company, I want to see a plan. I want to know how my money is going to help. What they have is way to vague.

Our current cash needs are approximately 4ME ($4M USD). This level of cash infusion would resolve outstanding debts, cover the expenses needed to become profitable, plus secure an extra amount to satisfy the needs of future growth.

What kind of outstanding debt? Is my money going to pay for those 1,500 dollar Aeron chairs the executes who are already being paid 6 digit salary are sitting in? Is it to cover "corporate meetings" held at the Sheraton or some other overly expensive restraunt? Those are the things that bother me the most. I'd be more than glad to help a company that is going under due to the pressure of the market, but I want to know why they got to where they are now. Is it because of a sincere inability to raise profit and lower required expenses? Or is it because the executives demanded fresh squeezed juices while they sit back in an Aeron chair.

I'm not saying Mandrake is like that, but I know plenty of companies that are to be overly cautious about investing any money into a company about to go bankrupt.

Letter to Mandrake Users

[Gareman]

I understand their need to make money, but they should tweak their business model to make membership more valuable. Here's the letter they sent me today, which entices me to buy a membership in the Mandrake Club.

Flash: MandrakeSoft's Future

Many of you have followed the evolution of MandrakeSoft throughout the past few years. Everyone who is concerned with the company's future is encouraged to read and distribute the following message.

Despite the many financial challenges of maintaining a fully open source business model, MandrakeSoft has always followed the Free Software approach, but in this normally joyful holiday season we are experiencing a serious short-term cash crisis.

In order to reach the next release, MandrakeSoft currently needs to raise cash and quickly complete an Increase of Capital. Please take a moment to read this important message at the Mandrake Linux website: http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/future.php3

We know you may have read our previous appeals, but if you are truly concerned about MandrakeSoft's future, now is the time to mobilize and help spread the word.

With the holidays upon us, a great way to spread some "Linux cheer" is by offering the gift of a MandrakeClub membership. The Club is a great way to support MandrakeSoft, and to help others too.

Sincerely,

The MandrakeSoft team.

Re:Pardon?

[hudsonhawk]

"Everyone who is concerned with the company's future..."

Clearly you don't meet this criteria, so don't worry about it.

Personally, I think its unfortunate most people don't see it this way - its the reason great companies with great products get gobbled / trampled by the Wal-Marts, Microsofts, and Sony's of the world. Economic darwinism (the idea that if a company fails, they must've had an inferior product) is a complete crock of shit, and leads giant uncontrollable monsters like the RIAA et al.

Scott

Re:It's too bad...

[Anonymous Coward]

That there's still no great open source business model. So far there have been "sell it under a different license" (MySQL) and "sell support" (Red Hat/MySQL/Mandrake) and "sell the CD image and don't provide it online, but make the software open source" (OpenBSD/UnitedLinux).

It seems to me that six months after RedHat switched from the "Sell support" model to the "don't make the binaries available for free" model they became profitable.

Re:Thinning the herd

[mosch]

From a technical perspective, I believe that they're getting culled for a reason. Mandrake is the 'bleeding edge' distro, and that used to have some value, because users used to regularly need the latest versions of applications, libraries and the kernel to be able to accomplish their goals.

These days though, most goals can be accomplished with software that's stabilized and has been regression tested for a few months, thus making many other distributions preferable to mandrake.

It's sad to see them go out of business, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't go bankrupt.

You people are incredible

[WankersRevenge]

I got the karma to burn and after dealing with a very crashy server, I got the angst to burn as well.

I swear . . . you people amaze me. You cry a river over Palladium and litter these message boards with cheers when some country decides to go Linux. You hate Microsoft - yet - when the most user friendly desktop distro is in financial trouble - you scorn them. I mean - wtf? If you believe in the cause and a major leader is having problems - you help them out. You help them out not because you want something in return, you help them out to keep the movement alive. And don't give me this market philosphy bullshit either. If you really believe that shit, stick with MS.

I swear you people are incredible. You cry so much about the DRM thing yet you make it invetiable by turning your back on Mandrake. You're just proving to everybody (including the RIAA, MPAA) that you just want a free lunch. Nothing else. Nothing more.

Go ahead - flame me to death and knock me down to the -1 country. I don't give a shit.

Its not charity to subscribe to the club

[HanzoSan]

Mandrake is not rich enough or annoying enough to send CDs to our houses like AOL does or have ads on TV telling us to subscribe to the club.

If you want Mandrake 10 you'll subscribe to the club, and if you dont want it, you wont subscribe,the code costs money to produce.

Re:Pardon?

[archeopterix]

Personally, I think its unfortunate most people don't see it this way - its the reason great companies with great products get gobbled / trampled by the Wal-Marts, Microsofts, and Sony's of the world.

Companies are not people, though the law treats them as such - how unfortunate! I dislike the idea of supporting a company because it is "good" (as opposed to "evil"). Unfortunately, a "good" company can become "evil" much faster than the Pope can turn into a serial killer. A CEO gets replaced, the company's "personality" changes. As to the future of the product - good products sold by weak companies aren't rare, that's true. One can only hope that the product outlives its company. Well, this sometimes happens, sometimes not. The free market is far from perfect (Surprise!).

One way to cut costs...

[Anonymous Coward]

Note the graphs on the linked page,
obviously generated in excel (and not
gnumeric). One way to cut costs is to
use free software.

Linux PBS

[BluedemonX]

Why don't they just have membership drives twice a year, like PBS? That way they can waste tons of money producing content noone watches, save a few brie eaters who'll write their donations off against their taxes?

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

right fucking on

[Doktor Memory]

The early affection of the slashdot crowd for Mandrake was always mystifying to me, and by the looks of the up-modded posts on this thread, it looks like a few of them have finally figured out that they've been had. Pity it didn't happen a few years ago.

Meanwhile, projects that actually contribute something unique to the community, as opposed to Yet Another Goddamn Shoddy Distribution, languish. I've donated [xiph.org] to the Ogg project; have you?

Emmett, any timeframe on getting vorbis support into the iPod? :)

Why Mandrake is important

[slux]

While most commercial distributions are turning partly-proprietary, Mandrake has always followed the all-GPL/FDL route. Of the commercial ones, only Red Hat and Mandrake remain as really free(dom) operating systems the way the GNU project intended. I don't think they're out of line asking for support when they provide you a free distribution. Look at it as a service (we all know where free software companies should be able to make their profit, right) - you pay for the development of the software. Mandrake is in distress because it's users are mostly desktop users that don't need any support services because they can get the help they need from other places.

The Club also provides services for Mandrake users, you do get something in return for your money. I don't know of any other place you can have discussions/get help/read news about Linux and Mandrake in particular in almost 20 different languages such as Esperanto (!), Japanese and Finnish. There is the RPM-voting system for packaging new versions of software the club members request, the discounts for various products (not only Mandrake's), and some other smaller things. It's also nice to have our very own MandrakeSoft employee answering questions, being generally helpful and continuously coming up with ways to improve the service. Thanks Deno! :)

Recently the members got to interview the new CEO, the article gave insight to what Mandrake could develop into if it survives. The answers are only available for club members currently but some interesting tidbits are that they're going to focus on providing even more services for the club members, making Ximian GNOME part of the distribution as suggested by a club member (which I think all distributions should do anyway, instead of coming up with tons of different looking GNOME desktops) and developing new software on demand.

I suggest you take a look at the MandrakeClub site [mandrakeclub.com] and look at what it offers before putting this down as "Charity".

signed,
A happy MandrakeClub member

This is what bank loans are for...

[perimorph]

Okay. So they say they're almost to the point of breaking even, which implies they've paid off a great deal of their debts. They say they have a solid business plan for the future.

If that were true, then they should be able to simply borrow money from a bank.

Yes. That's how banks make money -- they loan money to businesses with a good plan for earning a profit, and then recoup the investment with interest. The company uses the profit they earn to pay the loan balance.

If Mandrake can't get a loan, do you really believe in their Not Very Specific At All plans?

Re:well...

[vsprintf]

I voted with my dollars when I joined the MandrakeClub. I really like the easy-to-use Mandrake distro, and I'm seriously considering upgrading my membership as long as it's a one-time (one year) deal.

But, I still have some concerns. Is it a good thing to help a company recover from management mistakes? Of course, this is not Enron, and they got snookered by a fast-talking group of used-car salesmen, but what's to prevent it from happening again? I am not trying to undermine Mandrake, I use it. I'd like to see some policy statements.

Re:This means redhat would be the only Linux Deskt

[TheWanderingHermit]

The other distros, lets see, how many newbies can install slackware or debian?

Knowing how dedicated Debianites are, I'm sure this will get modded to troll immediately, but...

I'm not a newbie. I was taking classes in assembler back in the early 80's. I've been working with computers since the late 70's, in high school, and I've had a computer on my desk ever since the Apple //e came out (which I knew inside and out -- knew ROM entry points from memory and did a LOT of machine code programming).

I had to set up a new system last week. I spent 2 days trying to get Debian to install. If it asked for Disk 1 and I mistakenly put in Disk 2, and hit return, then put in the correct disk at the error message, it wouldn't even acknowledge the correct disk. I checked all my CDs to make sure they were readable in the drive I was using, but not once, in 2 days of trying to install Debian did I have a successful install. Every single time, whether I installed from the network, or from a CD, it kept telling me it couldn't get all the packages (and this was a basic install with the basic X-Windows and KDE, not something with a lot of extra programs). I tried the floppy install, following directions, and it still asked for the CDs (not when it was asking for debs sources -- at the beginning). If it installed, X wouldn't run. It did not talk well with my ATI Radeon A-I-W. And forget it even realizing I had a firewire card! I had really wanted to set up a video system under Linux and all my Debian loving friends have been swearing on how good Debian is.

2 days and not once did I get a working install that could recognize my hardware and give me X w/ KDE. So after all that, I decided to try Mandrake 9.0. It worked perfectly the first time. I went to the Penguin Liberation front and got the commands to add RPM sources and all the extra programs I needed (like Cinelerra) installed perfectly. My firewire card worked and for the first time I could capture video in Linux, as well as getting MPlayer to play DVDs.

Mandrake got skunked by venture capitalists who "knew better." Right now I'm still in the startup stage of a business. Money's coming in, but it's paying off startup costs. Mandrake has won my loyalty and I can tell you that within the next month I'll be buying the most complete version of Mandrake 9.0 and will continue to do so with each upgrade they offer. Why? Because it just works! I use the computer as a tool to do work, not as a tool to create tools to make more programs to do more techie stuff with Linux. I use it as a tool, and Mandrake works as a tool. Plain and simple.

Newbie or not, Mandrake is a solid distro and a great tool if you want to actually use your computer to get work done. Such a company deserves our support if we ever want to see Linux prosper on the desktop.

Debian sure isn't anywhere close to the "just install it and it works" stage yet.

I don't get it . . .

[Idou]

"And you should leave Microsoft, DRM, and all of the other /. buzzwords out of this -- they are not relevant at all to the topic."

Funny, I always thought that MS, RIAA, and MPAA had crappy business models because they depend on controlling the masses when freedom appears to be an innate human condition. I guess the fact that they make billions of dollars automatically makes these "good" business models in your book. And how exactly to explain this to your children?