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#debian & IRC Politics 274

Posted by Hemos
from the ah-the-joys-of-politics dept.
eyez writes "Apparently, the recent decision of OPN(now freenode) to ask for donations has ruffled the feathers of a few debian people. This article on DebianPlanet talks about the current discussion on the debian mailing lists which talks about the possibility of moving #debian (and #debian*) off of OPN altogether."
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#debian & IRC Politics

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  • #slackware (Score:3, Informative)

    by (startx) (37027) <slashdot.unspunproductions@com> on Saturday August 17, 2002 @06:49PM (#4090516) Journal
    #slackware is allready splitting, and it appears #kernelnewbies has allready left too...... lilo' really needs to quit whinning and at least attempt to get a real job.
  • by dzym (544085) on Saturday August 17, 2002 @06:57PM (#4090546) Homepage Journal
    That's not quite the point.

    For some better insight as to what was going on at the time, you should read at the very least this page [ecce.co.uk].

    See petition here [printf.net].

    Read Eterm developer Michael Jennings' thoughts on the matter here [kainx.org].

  • by trelaneopn (563678) <trelane@magenet.com> on Saturday August 17, 2002 @07:07PM (#4090581) Homepage Journal
    from an "inside source" it appears debian planet is staying out of this.
  • by saveth (416302) <[cww] [at] [denterprises.org]> on Saturday August 17, 2002 @07:10PM (#4090596)
    The majority of the OSDN channels that were on OPN (#sourceforge, etc.) have already moved to SlashNET [slashnet.org] for IRC.

    OPN is in a sad state, currently, with lilo constantly soliciting money and/or services from the IRCers. It just all seems rather childish to me.
  • by Nemith (114402) <{bennetb} {at} {onewest.net}> on Saturday August 17, 2002 @07:13PM (#4090605) Homepage
    Being one of the few who has parted #slackware on OPN, I would like to explain this.

    I used to be an operator on #slackware on OPN (freenode) for about 3 months and before that I was a regular in #slackware for about a year. Recently a lot of the ops and members had a falling out with the channel owner (robrock) due to his eradic behavor. He was banning people for no reason, threating to leave and turn the channel over to lilo and just acting childish. Quite a few of use (including 3 ops) have seen this behavior and decieded to move to a new network where we could start over again. So #slackware on oftc.net (open and free technology community) was born, and athough it was allredy registered the current owner was very nice and inviting.

    There has been some talk about moving ever since the wallops of lilo begging for money started, the fallout with the owner put it over the top. We now enjoy chatting on oftc.net without either of these burndens
    Also, i'd like to note that either of the two #slackware's (opn and oftc are NOT official slackware channels as one doesn not exist but we all try hard to help out people as much as we can.
    So now you know the story, and would love to have you all in #slackware on oftc.net (hope to see your there!)

    ~Nemith
  • by Primer (25308) on Saturday August 17, 2002 @07:25PM (#4090642) Homepage
    Read all about it here:

    http://www.lilofree.net [lilofree.net]

    The OPN exodus started well before this fundraising initiative. It's all documented in the above URL.
  • by throwaway18 (521472) on Saturday August 17, 2002 @07:31PM (#4090657) Journal
    you should read at the very least this page [ecce.co.uk]

    NTK [ntk.net] mentioned this in their usual style in this edition, [ntk.net] third paragraph in the news section.

  • by Tyler Eaves (344284) on Saturday August 17, 2002 @07:33PM (#4090665)
    Well, just for the sake of argument,

    2 x T1s = ~$3000 - $4000 a month
    That's 18000 - 24000 for 6 months.

  • by cyberconte (156446) on Saturday August 17, 2002 @07:45PM (#4090702)
    People are leaving in droves...why? Not because of DOS attacks, or poor service...

    Its because of Lilo.

    And he refuses to comprehend this. His spamming is nothing new - hes done it since the network was created and i was a member of several channels. People have been telling him to stop for as long as i can remember, and now, finally, its driving people over the edge and making them leave. And he *still* insists on continuing, since "its his network and he'll do what he wants with it".

    I mean, really. You'd think hed get a hint when an entire network [lilofree.org] is created just to get away from him.

    I hope the network rots away in front of him so he can truly understand the bullheadedness of his actions. OFTC is just as good without the wallops.

    As for #debian... move to OFTC!^_^
  • by jbridges (70118) on Saturday August 17, 2002 @07:47PM (#4090707)
    From June 13th:
    Trolling for Dollars [kainx.org]

    From July 8th:
    The Big Bully [lilofree.net]

    [2221 lilo`(lilo@lilo.staff.opn)] you're saying that my asking for voluntary assistance based on my work on the network is abusive?

    [2222 msg(lilo`)] I'm saying that your using the network to ask for personal donations which will benefit no one but yourself is an abuse of power. It's also arguable that such use of the network is now illegal given the NPO you formed to oversee the network.

  • by dzym (544085) on Saturday August 17, 2002 @07:54PM (#4090725) Homepage Journal
    let's see here

    /ignore lilo!*@* NOTICES
    a few weeks later
    /ignore lilo^!*@* NOTICES
    a few weeks later
    /ignore dilbert!*@* NOTICES
    a few weeks later
    /ignore *!*@*staff.opn NOTICES
    a few weeks later
    /ignore FUNDRAISING!*@* NOTICES
    a few weeks later
    /ignore *!*@*.freenode NOTICES
    Am I the only one who sees a pattern emerging here?
  • by Centinel (594459) on Saturday August 17, 2002 @07:57PM (#4090731) Homepage
    You'd think that the official #debian channel would move to OFTC [oftc.net], since it's a member project of Software in the Public Interest [spi-inc.org] and a sister project to Debian.
  • #vorbis (Score:2, Informative)

    by sheol (153979) <chris@noSPaM.lammah.com> on Saturday August 17, 2002 @07:58PM (#4090737) Homepage
    the ogg/vorbis irc channel has moved away from OPN/freenode to their own private server as well. irc.xiph.org/irc.vorbis.com #vorbis
  • by Rik van Riel (4968) on Saturday August 17, 2002 @08:03PM (#4090747) Homepage
    Yes, the #kernelnewbies [kernelnewbies.org] channel was moved over at the end of june already, together with #linux.nl, #dsbl and (I think, not sure) #php.

    Of course, we moved to OFTC [oftc.net], which is run very well by a number of ex-OPN staffers. As an added bonus, their ircd has some nice protection against flooders and spammers, so the move to OFTC has technical advantages too...

  • by drdink (77) <smkelly+slashdot@zombie.org> on Saturday August 17, 2002 @08:28PM (#4090817) Homepage
    might want to be aware of this little feature [ic.ac.uk] at their disposal. Here on SlashNET [slashnet.org], we frown at such things. I, as the ircd maintainer, refuse to include such things in our ircd and have refused patches such as this in the past. Evil stuff.
  • by Bruce Perens (3872) <bruce@perens.com> on Saturday August 17, 2002 @09:30PM (#4091021) Homepage Journal
    Lilo (Rob Levin) contacted me some time ago looking for support for him to operate OPN full-time. My response was, and still is, that rather than have an organized IRC network operated by Rob, various projects should operate their own IRC servers, not very differently from the way that many projects operate mail and FTP servers.

    I fear (and I could be wrong) that Lilo has mixed up his personal goals with his estimation of the importance of the project to the community.

    If and when I have grant money to hand out, either my own or that of a corporate sponsor, it will go directly to Free Software authors for production of Free Software, and to efforts to preserve our right to code like EFF.

    Thanks

    Bruce

  • by crazney (194622) on Saturday August 17, 2002 @10:41PM (#4091212) Homepage Journal
    Him and his girlfriend (or wife is it?)....

    Thats were the money is going.
  • A Petition (Score:3, Informative)

    by LightningTH (151451) on Saturday August 17, 2002 @11:02PM (#4091292)
    A petition I found for stopping lilo's silliness.

    http://void.printf.net/~chris/petition.pl [printf.net]
  • by dbarclay10 (70443) on Saturday August 17, 2002 @11:23PM (#4091381)
    I'd just like to throw in my <ME TOO> here.

    I've long wanted Debian to run its own IRC servers, for instance. I really think it's smart :)

    On OFTC we've talked about what we'll do when we have too many IRC users to manage effectively (given the flat namespace and all) ... I suggested, "split" :) As in seperate into two networks, managed seperately (but still abiding by rules and the constitution).

    Despite OFTC being very IRC-centric right now, we do want to offer SourceForge-like services. It's in our .plan, so to speak.

    That's where I see many projects using our IRC services; projects that don't yet run ther own FTP/HTTP/SMTP/DNS/etc servers ... if we're going to offer all that, they may as well use IRC too, if they want. *shrug* :)

    Just my two cents.

    (Disclaimer: my statements are my own, though I am part of OFTC staff.)
  • Hmm... (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 17, 2002 @11:46PM (#4091442)
    So I was browsing around OFTC's site, and I looked at the staff page. I really wasn't shocked to find out that the person who sent that message to the mailing list in fact has some personal investment in OFTC, and wants it to succeed, of course. The thing that I noticed was that Josip Rodin (Joy) is a server sponsor on OFTC, running the arion server.

    What's not a better opportunity to advertise one's favorite network by starting another anti-OPN war by attacking it when they are fundraising?

    P.S. For proof of my statement, check out http://oftc.net/staff
  • by SwedishChef (69313) <craig.networkessentials@net> on Sunday August 18, 2002 @12:08AM (#4091511) Homepage Journal
    Several IRC admins had similar problems with Galaxynet when two people who had control over services and the domain name summarily canceled the democratic principles of the original Policy and created a "founders" group with total control and no accountability. Exiled split away, wrote up its own Charter where even the IRCops have a vote and a say in the way the network is run.

    Exiled is free and will remain so. It is strugging at the moment to find users and contributer to the coding of services and ircd. Debian (and any other users) is cordially invited to visit and try us out.

    Swedchef
    admin of seattle.wa.us.exiled.net
  • by StillAnonymous (595680) on Sunday August 18, 2002 @02:34AM (#4091813)
    Welcome to the Internet, where people who have pathetic real-world lives turn into complete control-freak-shitheads the moment they are given even the slightest semblance of power in some silly virtual domain.

    These people are not to be concerned about. Simply point and laugh at them, then move along.
  • Re:Hmm... (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 18, 2002 @04:13AM (#4091956)
    If you had clicked on Josip's reply [debian.org] on that thread, you'd read this:
    On Fri, Aug 16, 2002 at 05:55:27PM +0200, Josip Rodin wrote:
    > We have successfully worked with OPN for years. Several Debian developers
    > were also OPN admins, and several still are.
    I should also add to this that I offered to host a server for both OPN and
    OFTC, and am in fact hosting one for the latter. Just so you don't think I
    skipped mentioning this because I'm biased pro OFTC, which I'm trying not to
    be.
    He admits to being an OFTC staffer/sponsor/whatever. Quite frankly, I don't see the relevance of him being on OFTC or not; in fact, two networks (Lilofree and OFTC) have already spun off of OPN because of Rob Levin. I think that's much more alarming.
  • Support LILO Aid (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 18, 2002 @06:37AM (#4092110)
    _You_ can do something for lilo. Visit LILO Aid [ecce.co.uk]

    Cheers,

    --fred

The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..." -- Isaac Asimov

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