Moving from Corporate IT to Science? 356
EdinBear asks: "I've been working as a SysAdmin in an increasingly corporate internet services company, which has been hit hard by the fallout from the .com bust. When I started some years ago, I felt I was helping small and interesting companies get benefit from the burgeoning Internet through useful and attractive web services. However, since the Internet became 'normal', the focus has been purely commercial - and instead of helping an enterprise get exposure in an interesting way, it's all about money and finance. I now feel I want to move into Science to use my skills in a productive, 'big picture' kind of way, rather than just helping a client get more rich through financial services. I'm interested to hear if other people have found themselves in a similar position; is the transfer to Science/Research/Academia difficult? Is the grass greener on the other side? The money is less, but is the job satisfaction more?"
The politics of Academia (Score:5, Insightful)
Alternative (Score:4, Insightful)
It all depends... (Score:3, Insightful)
It's hard to become a professor. There are typically hundreds of applicants for every opening. Unless you're really hot stuff, it's not much of a career plan -- only a few notches above "win the lottery," actually. And it takes years to get the degree.
OTOH, There are plenty of places to sysadmin besides ISPs. You might find that supporting intelligent, educated researchers was more gratifying than supported clueless dialup lusers.
Been there, done that (Score:4, Insightful)
What I encountered were a lot of very egocentric political schemers who were far more interested in self promotion than in the advancement of science, or in what we might call 'saving the planet'.
None of the people to whom I was answerable had any knowledge of how to manage IT people and projects (I am not over-generalizing, really). Their demands were unrealistic. My hours were as insane as ever (with no over time). The pressure and deadlines were just as gruelling.
Also, as you mention, the pay sucks in the academy (although, the benefits can be very decent).
Now, I'm back in the private sector doing more interesting work with more interesting people for more money.
Hope this helps, and good luck!
I have a similar situation (Score:5, Insightful)
Now that I've been laid off, I feel like I've been given a second chance, especially since the market is forcing me to look at alternatives anyway. But I wonder: is it really possible to suddenly live on 1/2 my former annual real salary? (I actually used to joke that I could pay someone else to do the job I wanted to do) Has anyone here really done this, without being married or having to get a roommate to help pay the rent? There's also the small complication of wanting to have my own house and kids someday.
Am I nuts? If not, what are the best programs out there for certifying? How flexible are the entry requirements? (I have a BS degree but never had a great GPA) Am I simply too old (at 30) to really think of a long career teaching second graders?
Re:Politics, Finance, etc. (Score:5, Insightful)
And at other times it can be maddening. I went the other way, sort of. I was a University sysadmin, and I now work doing support for Sun. I have to say I like the corporate world MUCH better. I never had any money for training in adademia. I had to teach myself, buy my own books, got to go to one conference in 7 years, etc. I was appreciated, but only extremely rarely in any meaningful way. Had to do everything with nothing, in other words. And while these days things are so fat in the corporate world as they used to be, they're still way better in terms of the resources I have to draw on than they ever were on even the best days at the university.
Re:It all depends... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:boring and repititive (Score:3, Insightful)
Plus some of these techniques are a bit of an art.
Re:Of course, I did the opposite... (Score:4, Insightful)
First, I'm not sure where you were at, but both Universities I have worked for offered great beneifits (paid medial, dental, drug Rx, life, tuition reimbursment, good vacation time, retirement plan), and these were public universities. The pay is about 20% lower than the corporate world, but the benifits made up for half of that. Job security was great....there is no chance for layoffs.
An the academic side, we were well funded. We had plenty of equipment to play with. However, dealing with faculty is a lot different than dealing with staff. Faculty want to do everything their way, and for the most part, you have to listen. This meant you had very little control over the desktop and had to accomodate a lot of different configurations on the server end (Win9x/NT/200/XP, Linux, Sun, Macs). Of course, our department did have a lot of research $$$ coming in....others did not, so I guess it's the luck of the draw.
On the administrative side, we didn't have as much money for equipment. We were mostly self-funded becuase we offered paid services to the university (stores, printing, etc), so occasionally we could get a chunk of coin to spend. Administrative deparments that are funded by the university's general fund probably have much less money for IT. Anyway, the administrative side of the university was much more corporate like, but still laid back and informal.
You're not going to get rich working for a university or the government, but it certainly has a lot to offer during these down times.
It's Computer Science (Score:2, Insightful)
It's like math. Getting a degree in math might help you to solve some problems, but you need knowledge of the problems you are trying to solve. If you learn only math, it won't be much use to anyone else (except as a math teacher). I think as time goes on we will find computer science is more of a tool to help solve problems rather than a solution in itself.
I have a degree in computer science. Right now I am working for a biochemistry research facility at WAZZU. Not knowing anything about biochemistry hinders my potential somewhat. Likewise, my supervisor not knowing anything about computer science hinders things as well.
Having said that I would like to point out that my experience working in non-profit is far more enjoyable than the corporate world. If you enjoy learning, as I do, I would recommend finding something in research. That's probably what your degree is for anyway.
A big plus is that I get to take classes for free. In two weeks I will be taking my first biochemistry class.
Re:I have a similar situation (Score:2, Insightful)
We had a few grand in the bank as a cushion, that helped. I stopped eating out. That REALLY helped. You also discover talking walks, instead of going to the movies. You find making coffee at home for $.02 a cup tastes every bit as good as $3.00 coffe at Starbucks. (I recommend splurging on a French Press.) If you find work within walking distance, you find you spend a lot less on gas and transit.
You also discover that your "decrepid" machine that needed upgrading simply needed a reinstall. You find that a flaky battery is a fun "quirk" about your mobile, and not a reason to replace it.
And at some point, you realize that you never really needed that much money. Unless of course, like me, you rang up a huge debt with school loans. At which point, keep plugging for the man. Only 8 more years of loan checks to go...
Re:boring and repititive (Score:2, Insightful)
I just talked to a much older friend, a professor of biology, who cut though my euphamisms with a flat "bio benchwork is boring as hell". Where the heck were you guys when I talked myself into doing this? =)
Well, I'm off to give chemistry or engineering a stab. At least my projects won't mutate slowly or die because someone sneezed in their culture dish before putting it in the incubator beside mine.
Long, hard slog ahead of you (Score:3, Insightful)
I've been somewhat lucky, as while I don't have PhD, I've got experience in both experimental biology and IT, so I'm not as restricted by the same prejudices that are often applied against biologists without PhDs. Really good bioinformatics staff are still hard to come by, especially in proteomics, where mass spectrometers, 2D-gel image analysis etc etc really haven't penetrated the general scientific community as deeply as things like DNA sequencing have yet. That might change soon with the influx of fresh bioinformatics undergrads, but nothing beats experience.
Don't generalize (Score:2, Insightful)
Postdoc (Score:5, Insightful)
Especially in the biological sciences, postdocs have become cheap labor, and multiple postdoc appointments are not rare. In physics (my field), multiple postdocs are a kiss of death: they mean you weren't good enough in your first postdoc to get some permanent or tenure track appointment, but in biology, what I hear is that there is a need for skilled laboratory ability (read: glorified technicians) and supervisors for large groups.
Even after a postdoc appointment, you'll aim for a tenure-track position, meaning you will have to work even harder for five to seven years, creating a research group from scratch, having to generate funding, while teaching the classes the senior profs don't feel like teaching. Then, if you've demonstrated an ability to bring research funding into the department, you might get tenure. Or, if you are turned down for tenure at a major research university, you might get offered tenure at a lower-ranked or four-year institution.
The tenure track is extremely stressful. Marriages are often destroyed in the process.
If you really want to be an academic in the sciences, it requires a great deal of sacrifice. Sure, there are theoretically other rewards. But it isn't easy to really find scientific problems that are simultaneously tractable, truly useful, haven't been done already, and can get funding. In theory, you can research whatever you want. In practice, if you can't get someone (government) to fund you, you aren't going to get very far.
Perhaps I'm biased because my Ph.D. thesis advisor went into the private sector (and is much happier there).
I recommend you read the book "A Ph.D. is not Enough!" for some insight into what is really required for success in academia.
Don't fool yourself... (Score:2, Insightful)
But the reality of university academic life is nothing like that, unless you're either exceptionally lucky or brilliant, (and I mean the sort of brilliant that universities will bend over backwards just to have you join their ranks, that is, seriously world-class level).
No, the reality for most academics is one of
politics,
jealousy,
slim budgets,
disaffected students who don't really give a stuff about what you're trying to lecture to them; they just want to graduate with a degree so they can get the sort of job you hate; you'll be training the students to do something you don't agree with,
universities, who, just like most profit-driven organisations, don't give two hoots about "the big picture" and just want to make bucks by pushing as many students through the production line as they can,
loads of unpaid overtime, marking essays, exams, etc
and somewhere between all this, trying to find time to do your own research.
So it's really just like any other job, not cushy at all like many people think.
Ask yourself this: do you really care about "the big picture", or are you just trying to escape a workstyle you don't like? If it's the second reason, then you won't find much sanctuary in academic life. Sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear, but it's pretty much the truth.
Lovin' Astronomy (Score:3, Insightful)
The Academic environment provides a lot more freedom...just look at what D. Toresky has been able to do...(any Verizon employees want to try that on company time?). But yes there are ruts... if you aren't really excited about the kind of science you are doing, might as well to back to the corporate world.
WHO you work with is just as important as what you are doing. In most fields of science (especially the not-even-remotely-profitable ones like mine) you are expected to work hard, but if the results do not turn out as expected, or hoped, well that's part of the discovery process. This contrasts with the business world, where if expectations are not met, it is mandadory to find someone to blame.
PhD was required for my job, as with many, but there are some "loopholes" out there: for example part IT/admin and part research jobs which can evolve more in the research direction. These aren't easy to find, but you skip the 5 years+ of grad school...
Re:Of course, I did the opposite... (Score:2, Insightful)
Pretty Please?
Re:Of course, I did the opposite... (Score:3, Insightful)
You get paid for doing work, stop being lazy, and learn to be more political.
I *did* major in political science, and I tried to be as political as possible, but in an administrative department even the justifications we had for better equipment and software weren't popular enough, I guess.
What do you expect at a college campus?
Well, 15 years ago I guess I *could* have expected a previous epoch of computing; mainframes, punch cards, expensive metered access. Maybe we got a break as an administrative department, who knows. I do know that the campus networking people were pretty responsive to us, but that could have been because we just wanted stuff fixed, and didn't want to have a symposium about it.
Once again its a college campus!
I know, but lots of campuses are in bad environments -- too much concrete, too urban, etc. The building I worked in was in an old building on the old part of campus, which had lots of green spaces. It's a lot nicer than the concrete jungle I work in now.
Typical player arent you? Getting laid alot is nothing to brag about unless its with the same woman.
Except I'm not a typical player and its not bragging; I think it illustrates a different mentality/lifestyle/population at Universities. More liberal? More fun? Who knows. The people in the corporate world are, in my experience, far more image/status/suburban-style-success oriented and I work now in about the most liberal type of corporate environment. I'd attribute 25% of the difference to subtle age difference (skews slightly older now), but I do think the University attracted less conventional people.
Mucho "public service" opportunities for techies (Score:5, Insightful)
Wanting to improve the "big picture" for many people, rather than just earn bucks for your employer, is an admirable goal. But you might be dissatisfied with a job in science/academia because very often the objectives are arcane and specialized and do not have any obvious "big picture" payoff.
Think about what you could do to help a government agency, charity, church, organization achieve their goals via IT. There's a lot of unexploited opportunities for computers and the web in these realms. Many of these organizations are technologically backwards, which means two things:
Just made the move myself! (Score:3, Insightful)
Well.....here is is 4 years later and I am just getting back into academia! The past 4 years were HOT! Huge contracts with HUGE rates and frills meant easy student loan payoffs, houses, cars, etc. Then the other shoe dropped.......everyone was getting cut, contracts dried up, pay scales slid like so much California property into the ocean.......I was actually out of work for 3 months! LUCKILY....I grabbed and stashed all the dough I could when I was making it and managed never to buy any stock or take any options ["These days if you own anything but land, you own a popcorn fart!" Rodney Dangerfield, Caddyshack]......so I sold some stuff off and started looking. Here is what I found:
Infrastructure support seems to have gone the way of the dodo.....there is no need to double staff when you have competent programmers who can also provide support [if they want a job, they will!]. Contracting agencies are more like pimps then anything these days and we lowly contractors are their techno whores....they know we are stuck and they take advantage of us to the hilt.....
Once this realization hit...I started looking HARD at academia.....obviously the degree helped, but I was lucky enough to land a position at a VERY small libral arts college teaching stats software [SPSS] to undergraduate psychology students and support the psych dept M$ and MAC boxes........the position isn't faculty nor is it tenure-tract and the pay is A LOT lower then the contracting gigs but, it is PERMANENT and the benefits are HUGE. I work 9-4 [I am the work-a-holic of the department] and enjoy every July off.
I don't think we will ever see another BOOM in IT again: the golden age is over, a 12 year old can become a MCSE now and he market is flooded with "certified" people willing to work for 1/2 of what you are.....so I am staying here for the rest of my life.
If you can get into it.....I highly reccomend it. Try to stay out of administration, too many politics and too much stress......work with students, it is very rewarding and a lot more fun.