Moving from Corporate IT to Science? 356
EdinBear asks: "I've been working as a SysAdmin in an increasingly corporate internet services company, which has been hit hard by the fallout from the .com bust. When I started some years ago, I felt I was helping small and interesting companies get benefit from the burgeoning Internet through useful and attractive web services. However, since the Internet became 'normal', the focus has been purely commercial - and instead of helping an enterprise get exposure in an interesting way, it's all about money and finance. I now feel I want to move into Science to use my skills in a productive, 'big picture' kind of way, rather than just helping a client get more rich through financial services. I'm interested to hear if other people have found themselves in a similar position; is the transfer to Science/Research/Academia difficult? Is the grass greener on the other side? The money is less, but is the job satisfaction more?"
Pretty much the same (Score:5, Informative)
Slashdotters who find political situations in the work place difficult, will find much of the same in academia.
They are actually quite similar. Those 'greedy' clients chasing dollar bills will for the most part just be replaced with 'fame greedy' co-authors who want to make a name for themselves. In science it's all about your reputation, and it's managed in the much the same way porfolios are in the business world.
This isn't true of everyone of course, but in my opinion the grass is pretty brown on both sides of the fence.
boring and repititive (Score:4, Informative)
Basically, I prep DNA, ligate DNA, do PCR reactions and transform bacteria. Run the gels, digest DNA, yadayadayada. It doesn't pay well, and is not galmorous. No scientist that I know really enjoys doing that crap. After decades of work, you might be lucky do direct your own group of minions to do this crap so you can analyze results and think of new experiments all day long (the fun parts).
Go into a field that mixes computers and science. Like say bioinformatics or molecular modeling. I'm fairly ignorant on these subjects, but they seem much more interesting to do on a day to day basis. So that's where I'm trying to head.
No place for you in science (Score:1, Informative)
Those who want to jump into science because they lost their "job" in IT aren't the kind of people who belong in science.
Academic Research Empires (Score:2, Informative)
That's what I saw when I was getting my Ph.D. from a prestigious technical university (it's name begins with Georiga Tech).
Re:Science is like any other business (Score:1, Informative)
And arguing in a similar way, many computer experts think themselves scientists because they once wrote a program that demonstrated some scientific principle, usually because they were made to in some required class for their CS degree.
Of course it is nonsense. IT folks are not scientists, and scientists aren't ready to be sys-admins.
As for your BullShit comment about fortran, I suspect you have seen only f77. Fortran is as every bit as interesting and useful as C( fortran95 anyway). C is best for systems programming, fortran9x is best for computation. Most scientists are well versed in using both( as well as perl ) in solving many thorny problems in scientific computation.
IT may be greener (Score:5, Informative)
I used to work as an aquatic biologist. Since I only have an M.S. it's possible that my experience is substancially different than those with PhD's. But I've been much happier as a geek.
Funding for primary research has pretty well dried up, and directed research systems tend to be very intense, short-sighted, and goal oriented -- not a good environment for good science. The primary research positions are underfunded, and staffed by the "old dogs" with twenty years of publications under their belt -- you won't get a shot there easily.
The scarcity of funding has led to other undersirable characterists: disposable labor and fraudulent research. Basically, many programs are hiring staff as they need 'em, working them like dogs, then letting them go when they quit working 70 hour weeks. There have also been many disturbing rumors of falsified research, and of course almost nobody is wasting time reproducing other's work.
In addition, unlike the science of the last few decades, information is no longer freely distributed among researchers -- the push is to make money by patenting every little discovery. In short, the ivory tower has crumbled, and what's left is a dirty little sweatshop pursuing the almighty dollar with the same intensity as the most callous prostitute. I've been in IT for a number of years now, but work extensively with large numbers of scientists and engineers. They envy me, and I daresay rightly so, which is unfortunate -- science was my first love.
Here's a solution! (Score:3, Informative)
* Yurts are incredible! I've actually visited Pacific Yurts in Oregon. Too many benefits to list. Check out http://www.yurts.com/
* We can build our own wireless freaknet with cheap 802.11 gear, and bring the Internet (WAN) connection down from the skies. Hell, we may be able to get a cable modem connection.
* Organic gardening.
* Totally off grid: Solar, wind, hydro.
* Chicken tractors. Again, if you think I'm kidding, type "chicken tractor" into google.
* No mortgage!
* No PHBs for miles and miles!
* Once your show is set up, what will the costs be? Once you cut out the mortgage/rent and other allegedly essential BS, it's not that expensive to live.
Getting off the hamster wheel is NOT easy. We need bold action. This isn't thinking outside the box, it's saying, "I'm not playing this game anymore."
Now, clearly, this isn't for everyone, but I suspect that there are a bunch of potential off-grid yurt freaks lingering in the slashdot crowd. Hey, let's fire it up. Let me know!
-Kevin
back again (Score:2, Informative)
Pay wise I'm making half of what I made previously (I've been here about a year), but more than when I was unemployed (little joke/joke there). It's not a happy happy world, there are some politics and aggravations because it's still just life. BUT: the goal is cooler, the value of long term thinking is stronger, and the resources are fantastic. Internet2 anyone?
Go to science if you can!
Computers, Perl, and Bioinformatics (Score:3, Informative)
Go into a field that mixes computers and science. Like say bioinformatics or molecular modeling. I'm fairly ignorant on these subjects, but they seem much more interesting to do on a day to day basis. So that's where I'm trying to head.
A year ago I left the programming and management world to go back to get my Master's. The university I'm attending just started offering an option in computational biology. Once I started the computational biology option, it's been tremendously exciting. I've been approached by biologists who want me to roll my thesis work into their efforts--data mining biology-related data, etc. I've also been told by the department that biotechnology companies are just throwing grant money towards bioinformatics like crazy. If I decide to get my Ph.D., I'm assured it will be paid for.
And the best part of all? Check out BioPerl [bioperl.org] and bioinformatics.org [slashdot.org]. Open Source is quite popular in this field. It's incredibly refreshing to be hacking away at problems that don't involve the same old corporate data warehouse.
Re:Of course, I did the opposite... (Score:2, Informative)
Work Differences (Score:2, Informative)
I've worked in a University environment
I've worked as a federal employee
I've worked as a self-employed entrepreneur
I've worked as in the private sector
The pay sucks in academia. No one will pay you less for your skills than a school. The politics are vicious. There isn't enough money to go around, and if you don't constantly fight for it you won't get new light bulbs for your broom closet of an office, let alone a new computer. The day starts at 9 and ends at 5. You can stay after 5 if you want (its unrewarded), but God help you if you're not there again at 8:55. And rules... Rules are a part of the politics. What you can do, what you can't. Mess up and you can expect the proverbial knife in your back. And P.S. they own your ass. Anything you invent or create or imagine is theirs. The one thing which recommends academia, the only thing, is that if you hook on to the right researchers then a couple of times a year you'll have the opportunity to do work which is truly profound.
Government is dead opposite. The pay is not great, but its livable. Your job is absolutely secure. You will get raises on a schedule. Outside of the top echelons, the office politics are largely muted. You'll get a new computer on schedule, and it'll be a reasonbly good one. The rules are endless, but that's just a surface veneer given lip service, used to stymie anyone who's overbearing. The work gets done behind the scenes based on your ever more extensive network on contacts. On the down side, good luck finding meaningful work. Ever. And you can pretty much forget about merit-based promotion. Its so slow, you can hardly tell the difference between it and the seniority based promotion. However, work ends at 5 after which you can do anything you please. Such as write open source for posterity.
As an entrepreneur, you can pick the work you're going to do, and you can pick whatever meaningful work you want. You make the rules and pick just about every aspect of your job. Here's the bad news: The hours are long. In fact, they don't end. You're on call 24/7, and no matter how much you do, there is always something more. And here's worse news: Someone with cash has to find your work valuable enough to pay you for it. Its a little like being a starving artist; everybody appreciates your work, but they're not willing to pay money for it until after you're dead.
Private sector is a mixed bag. Some places have good pay, some bad. Some places have rigid rules, some loose. Some places are rigidly seniority based, others promote only on merit. Some places provide an office with a view, others a tiny cube. The universal rules, you've already discovered: If your work doesn't directly impact the bottom line, you're nobody. And news flash: Work of worldly significance tends to help your competitor as much as it does you. If your company is already on top, it helps your competitor more. So guess how much worldly work they want you to do?
Re:boring and repititive (Score:3, Informative)
I think that's your problem right there. To do anything really interesting in academia you need a PhD. The guys with a BS are going to be working in labs running PCR reactions, while the guys with PhDs (after a bit of experience) are going to have their own lab where they'll be coming up with the experiments you're carrying out and writing papers about the results (and attending conferences and such).
Now that might not sound interesting either (especially if you hate writing papers and attending conferences), but it's what's usually thought of as "academia" -- the non-PhD guys who just work in the labs are just "employees" or "staff" rather than "faculty", and as such end up with the more crappy jobs (usually).
[Note: I have no idea what industrial labs are like; I'm only referring to academic labs here.]
Manage your expectations (Score:2, Informative)
By and large, people tend to optimise their behaviour to be appropriate to the environment that they are working in - in the commercial world this means making someone money (shareholders hoefully and maybe even yourself). In academia I got the impression that the underlying goals were pretty similar, people wanted their careers to advance, get promotion (and away from evil short term contracts that are very popular here in the UK) and this is almost purely done through publications. If you are an actual academic (rather than support staff) then maximising pulication output is usually the only goal. I observed that as publications were linked to people (the authors) there was was no 'team effort' - it really was everyone out for themselves. In this respect, the academic environment has actually made the various commerical environments I have worked in look relatively tame when it came to politics (and I have been on the board of a company that eventually IPO'ed [to no great effect]).
In reality, as various other posters have alluded to, it comes down to the academic environment being good at some things: it really is an easier life (modulo politics), working environments can be fun and you can get more space to do your own stuff. Pay is not a strong point, but is often not that bad if you stick around long enough.
I wouldn't go back myself, but I'm glad that I was there for a while and if you go into it with your eyes open and with some goals of your own then you can have some fun. Plan to get out and back to the RealWorld though (handy tip: if you want to drive academics insane with rage through references to the RealWorld into your conversation - its cruel to tease the poor things but amusing and as a taxpayer I feel I have to get value for money somehow).
My Experience (Score:2, Informative)
I've been studying for a PhD for two years now. Although I get a hell of a lot less money (about 1/3 of my old salary), I'm a lot happier. The academic environment is very supportive and enabling, I'm always learning, I have complete freedom to work as and when I want/need. The people I work with are enlightened, intelligent and socially-aware people, versus the moneygrabbing, selfish and stupid people one often encounters in industry. Assuming I'm lucky enough to be able to make a career in academia, there's no way I'd go back to industry.
That said, although I'm researching a topic that has direct impact on a significant public health issue, I don't feel like I am achieving something amazing. Science is about a whole bunch of people doing quality research in a methodical way, and then every once in a while a 'genius'-type coming along and drawing lots of research together and marking a milestone in the field. The important thing in science is to contribute, and not to worry too much if you are not that genius.
If you need to see the fruits of your labour, then maybe science isn't for you.
But working in an academic environment is far nicer than working in an industrial one (in my experience).
Science != Academia (Score:4, Informative)
I've done both (Score:2, Informative)
I work for two departments. One is absoultly a pleasure (I just got buying a nice cluster and I'm working on web based classrooms), the other is pretty boring (mostly just user support BS). Basicly, my point is, it will be hit or miss. If you end up in a position where your superiors are willing to let you run and do some cool projects it can be great fun. The budget isn't always big, but you might get to play with technology or projects that wouldn't be deemed profit capable in the private sector.
Actually the smallish budgets make it more interesting in my opinion. They add a new deminsion. You have to be creative. You can't just go to "Joes Internet Learning" and buy a solution. You have to assemble and invent your own.
Try the non-profit world!! (Score:2, Informative)
my $0.02
Re:The politics of Academia (Score:3, Informative)
As others have said, you have to bow to the faculty demands. You definitely have to be more flexible. But the benefits (if the pay isn't) are good (heck I get 24 vacation days a year... renewing every fiscal start... no accrument). You also get the opportunity for side incomes. I teach one class a semester which kicks in about another $6K a year. Others get their names passed around when outside industries call for consultants.
It's not a bad gig, even if it isn't the greatest. It is stable and you can sleep at night; literally because "on call" is loosely defined and figuratively because helping academia is a zero-conscience crusher. Unless your Uni is helping design diseases and/or weapons and other "bad stuff" you are probably helping the greater good more often than the greater bad and that, as Martha Stewart would say, is "A Good Thing."