Mandrake Hits Wal-Mart(.com) 512
caveat writes: "The Register is reporting that Wal-Mart is shipping PCs with Mandrake preinstalled. 'Prices range from $391 for a 900MHz Duron machine to $648 for a 2GHz Pentium 4 with CD-RW.' more power to them." So now walmart.com customers seeking a pre-installed Free OS aren't limited to Lindows. I wonder if any Wal-Mart manager is brave enough to actually set up a few machines in-store. Update: 07/15 15:35 GMT by T : As many people have pointed out, the systems running Mandrake -- just like the Lindows machines on offer -- are only available through Wal-Mart's website.
Walmart vs. MS (Score:4, Insightful)
Indirectly claiming a flaw in Linux, tim? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why is the bravery required? Are you suggesting its hard to install Linux? Are you suggesting its hard to use Linux?
If a manager can't setup demos, then the whole idea of selling Linux in the stores is flawed and will ultimately fail.
Re:Walmart vs. MS (Score:2, Insightful)
monitor? (Score:3, Insightful)
Pro and Con (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Fear Reduction. If customers can *see* it working, and see a few neat demos (one of the few linux games, Open Office, etc...) then they will be much more likely to buy it.
2. Employee Knowledge. The majority of Walmart employees are not really encouraged to be knowledgeable about their products or their store. If electronics department managers took the dive and installed a Linux PC for their departments, employees who worked there could play with it and learn about it. They'd be in a lot better position to deal with it.
3. Zealots. Go to any Bestbuy or Circuit city that happens to have a Mac section, and you'll find one or two Mac Zealots there to 'encourage' people toward buying a Mac. If you put Linux PC's in stores, you'll probably get Linux Zealots there too to show people how wonderful Linux can be.
Reasons AGAINST setting up a Linux Demo PC at Walmart
1. su -; password; rm -rf *.*
2. When Linux breaks, (or is broken) you've got to be knowledgable to fix it. If you installed it, you've got no problem, but can you really count on someone who works at Walmart to know how to edit files? In my experience, non techies who sell computers would rather *not* fix a broken software demo by reinstalling. If they can't make it 'right' again with a few mouse clicks, they'll turn it off.
3. 133t k1dd135
4. Customer: "So, which of this software can I run on this Linux PC?"
Walmart CSM: "Uhmm... None of it, I think. I dunno. Are these things compatible with normal PC's?"
Walmart carries a few boxed Linux distros. I've seen Mandrake and Redhat shrinkwraps before, but that is the long and short of their in-store linux support. Joe Sixpack doesn't want to download Open Office. He wants to buy it off the shelf and have it work without thinking. Unless Walmart starts carrying some of the shrinkwrap Linux software packages, and maybe some 'collection' CD's, they're shooting themselves in the foot by displaying a Linux PC next to reams of Windows-only software.
Re:Walmart vs. MS (Score:3, Insightful)
I doubt they are doing it to challenge MS, at least not directly. They are doing it because Walmart does whatever it takes to offer lower prices than everyone else. If Windows costs more than Linux, it only makes sense from their point of view to offer Linux. They don't care about the politics or technical merits of open-source software, etc.
They could preinstall any software they sell on the shelves.
I imagine Microtel could pre-install any software that they strike a licensing deal with. I don't think having the software on their shelf gives Walmart or Microtel any license other than to resell said software on said shelf.
If you have a problem with it, you can just bring it to a Walmart.
I seriously doubt Walmart will be offering much in the way of technical support. Hardware failures sure, you'll have your normal return-policy and warranty period, but if you trash your MBR or can't run Mozilla, I don't think they'll be much help (most likely, Microtel offers some kind of support).
If selling Lindows and Manrake increases their hardware sales, would they consider writing their own operating system? or maybe just Walmart Linux?
That's a major stretch. Again, they aren't interested in the politics, nor do I believe they are interested in becoming a tech company. They simply see that:
- PC hardware is dirt cheap right now
- Lindows/Mandrake is cheap
- As a result, they can offer a PC cheaper than the next guy
I suspect that after so many users return the machines (My AOL don't work on this computer, or Front Page won't run) they might reconsider.
It's the software, stupid (Score:1, Insightful)
I would love to see Linux compete on the desktop, but I just don't see how it meets the needs of the average WalMart customer.
And before someone starts with the old, "but all those people want is e-mail, a browser, and a way to write letters," let me say: Bullshit. Newbies very often buy a computer with very modest intentions but quickly get comfortable with the machine and then want to start adding programs and doing the same things with it that they see their friends and relatives do. That's when things get ugly, and people start telling each other, "Don't buy Linux, there's no software for it."
Re:Pro and Con (Score:2, Insightful)
Well, they're not displaying a Linux PC next to reams of Windows-only software. These Linux-loaded PCs are only available via Walmart.com. You have to be looking for it, or have a friend point it out to you, in order to find it in the first place.
I think you're basically right - Walmart suddenly offering some PCs loaded with Linux is not going to immediately push Linux into the mainstream, like some people seem to think. Furthermore, if Walmart were to present these PCs in their stores as "just like Windows PCs, only cheaper!", they'd be shooting themselves in the foot. But they're not, and I don't think they mean to push Linux into the mainstream.
I think, really, this is like Linux getting it's tonail (not the full toe, and definitely not the full foot) in the door of "pre-installed OS" computers.
I mean, these things have to go in baby steps. In another two years, it's quite possible that Linux could be so much farther on that all the reasons against having these things in stores might be solved. I, for one, hope so. Some elitist geeks might shudder at their niche OS being tainted by "the masses", but I personally see the good outweighing the bad if free software were to end up being used everywhere.
Re:Proof of Concept (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:pricing (Score:2, Insightful)
On the other hand, people may find alternative, "inexpensive" ways to load some kind of Windows.
-MSE
Re:Now how many people will actually buy one? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:As a person who shops at Wal-mart... (Score:3, Insightful)
I worked at a GM factory one summer, and the employees there told me that one year they had to shut down production and send every one home for the day because not enough people showed up on opening day of deer season.
And from dictionary.com:
hick Pronunciation Key (hk) Informal
n.
A person regarded as gullible or provincial: "New Yorkers had a horrid way of making people feel like hicks" (Louis Auchincloss).
adj.
Provincial; unsophisticated: a hick town.
[After Hick, a nickname for Richard, from Middle English Hikke.]
Re:agree (Score:2, Insightful)
Why not choose... (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't know about MySQL on win32, and I would guess the Gtk applications would be clearly inferior on XP than on Mandrake, since they provide a native interface on the later.
Re: Wow! a REGIONAL vendor is selling Linux PCs? (Score:3, Insightful)
We're talking about Walmart quietly adding PCs on their website with little promotion (other than geek news coverage) vs Fry's (a large regional store) displaying linux-based PCs in Fry's stores and boldly promoting it in their advertising. A friend of mine went there twice in the last couple weeks and bought two of them right off the shelf in the store. Saw a big ad, no mail order, no needing to know about about an obscure page on a website, didn't already need to have a PC, etc.
Sure, Walmart may be able to reach everyone, if they try... and maybe they will someday.
But in the here and now, and lot more people are getting exposed to a bargain linux-based PC due to (regional) Frys than (international) Walmart. Just because you're bitter that Fry's isn't in your area doesn't mean that they aren't managing to expose a lot of people to the concept of a $300 PC with linux.
Sure, you may like Walmart better (I do too... Fry's really does terrible customer service), and it is true that Walmart could expose a lot more people to linux-based computers, but the fact is that their linux-based PCs are on their website, only available to people who already have a PC and are willing to mail order. Fry's has these $300 machines in their stores, and they're devoting major advertising to let people know about it.
Re:Linux isn't ready for the Store Shelves (Score:2, Insightful)
Don't know how they would unknowingly buy it, since they have to but it from Walmart.com, and the description tells you it's linux.
Problem 1. Connect to the Internet. The customer calls his local internet provider, Cable, DSL, or dial-up and says he want's to setup his system to connect to the net. The Internet provider sends him the software. Hmmm, where's the Linux install. Call back the provider. The provider asks what Operating system he's running. Customer repsonds "Linux". Click!
User gets sent hardware, connects it, boots machine, during boot, the hardware is detected, and the user is prompted for settings, adds them, and continues booting. When he logs in, the connection works. Better than windows (no reboot necessary).
Problem 2. Swapping files. The customer's best friend just downloaded this cool program and wants him to try it. Hmmm, just stick the disk in and and run setup?
But the user would already have 3 programs under linux that do the same, but in different ways, and easier to install.
Problem 3. U.S. Federal Income Tax Software, Quicken for Linux, MS Office for Linux, Wheel of Fortune for Linux? While there are alternatives, they aren't mainstream.
Buy Crossover Office or Win4lin from the mandrakestore.com, if they aren't happy with OpenOffice.org 1 (actually 641c), StarOffice 6.0, Gnumeric, or KOffice or one of the accounting apps that ships with Mandrake 8.2
Problem 4. Computer crashes. No problem take it to the local computer repair center. Ooops, they don't support Linux.
How often is this going to happen??? And it's probably installed on ext3, so no problems. Hardware problems are hardware problems, so the shop can boot a diagnostic tool from a floppy to test the hardware. Anyway, they can probably return it to Walmart.com and get a replacement.
Problem 5. Ohhh, there's a new cool USB 2.0 gadget out for the computer at my local store. I'll buy it and connect it to my system. Hmmm, Linux doesn't recognize the new hardware and there's no Linux install software included with the gadget.
USB 2.0 won't work on Windows XP either. So, the user might have to upgrade to Mandrake 9.1 or whatever release first has a kernel with usb2 support.
The point is, that Linux, at this time, is only for people that want to download it/buy it, install it, and spend alot of time learning Linux. It's not for people that just want to use it as part of their computer and don't really care what's running in the background as long as they can e-mail, surf, do finances, play games, etc. We Linux zealots often forget that the majority of the population could care less if they're running Wndoze, Linux, or Mac, as long as they can do what they need to do with their computer.
I would disagree, and say that at the moment, linux is restricted to those who are geeks or know geeks, because they don't know that they are capable of installing it. My girlfriend now uses Mandrake 8.2 (though she has win98 dual-boot, atm only used for downloading photos from my camera which is not well enough supported by gphoto2), and prefers it, mainly because a lot of things come with the distro that don't come with windows. For example, she would have to get a new version of winamp to play music she got from a friend, whereas xmms plays it fine - and she has no network connection).
Sure, I had to install Mandrake for her, but I had to do that with Win98 also. She did the installation/upgrade to Mandrake 8.2 from 8.1, and I don't know if she would manage win98.
So, now we will really see how difficult linux is to use, now that a decent distro comes pre-installed, which IMHO was the only major obstacle before.
Now, we can only hope that these sell well.
Re:Linux isn't ready for the Store Shelves (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Now how many people will actually buy one? (Score:2, Insightful)
Stay away from Fry's! (Score:2, Insightful)
I've been tempted by their excellent prices far too many times. Their computer hardware is nearly all refurbished (or just relabelled), and many of the items on the shelves have been returned and resold 3 or more times - count the number of restock stickers.
Not only does their hardware suck, but they're a tremendous pain in the ass about refunds. they are almost only willing to accept exchanges, you will have to argue at length for anything else (with few exceptions).