Gentoo Linux 1.2

MrOutlander writes "Gentoo Linux releases version 1.2 of their cutting edge distribution with many updates including KDE 3.0.1 (20020604) and GNOME 2 (beta, 20020607) support. I love emerge :)"

Be careful with the cutting edge...

[bc90021]

While Gentoo does rock, I don't suggest any of the cutting edge stuff for production boxes. While that's a given for the most part, the ease with which Gentoo allows you to install new and tempting things may make it harder for some to resist. (Emerge just rules.)

Installing Gnome2 and then Evolution left me with no X/Window Manager (or, rather, Gnome 1.4 and Gnome2 at the same time). The machine I did this on is one I use to fool around with, but in a production environment, I suggest avoiding the temptations Gentoo puts before you and sticking with the tried and true (ie, Gnome 1.4 if you like Gnome, and whatever the stable version of KDE is ;) ).

An alternative to Gentoo...

[pongo000]

Gentoo's great, if you have a Pentium-or-better machine (for the partially-built distro) and a bootable CD-ROM. Don't even bother if you can't boot from CD, and good luck if you try to do a "live" install from an existing Linux installation. A good alternative is LFS [linuxfromscratch.org], which accomplishes much of what Gentoo has set out to accomplish but without all of the superfluous extras. More importantly, LFS is meant to be built using an existing (if possibly broken) Linux platform. If building a Linux system from scratch is what you're looking for, LFS certainly delivers.

Re:An alternative to Gentoo...

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, seriously, if you can't afford a 'Pentium-or-better machine' you need to re-evaulate your life. Go outside, get a job, have a bath, move out of home.

Source based vs. Binary based: Possible compromise

[egghat]

This isn't meant to be trolling ...

With the previous discussion whether source based distros or binary distros are better I wonder, why you can't simply download a binary distro and recompile all important packages from the Source RPMS. So you can get the comfort from e.g. Mandrake with the efficiency of e.g. Gentoo.

Is it a possible way to enhance a binary based distibution with a recompilation feature?

Bye egghat.

Re:Install from floppy.

[Anna Merikin]

If anyone has a "HOWTO install gentoo from floppy" I would be happy to know about it.

No howto, but why not use a floppy-based linux like 2-disk xwindows or baslinux or even tomsrtbt from here [ibiblio.org] to connect to ftp.gentoo.org, download the ISO, mount it as a loopback device and install from the laptop's HD?

Re:I downloaded Debian two days ago

[alfaiomega]

It's been over 2 months since KDE3 was released. How about having it FINALLY in Debian as well?

Great idea, why won't you help Debian folks if you need it so much?

Re:Gentoo is great!!

[nathanh]

Anyway, I've been 99% satisfied with Gentoo and I'd recommend it to anyone with a little Linux experience (though definitely not as a server distro) who wants to have fun with a desktop Linux setup.

If you think installing and compiling software is fun, sure. Gentoo fills a specific niche for people who (like yourself) want to learn more about their systems, and also the rare breed of people who want everything compiled from source. It's not for everyone. Some people don't like their desktops to break. And I personally don't care how my desktop works just as long as it does! That's why I stick with Debian: it may not have all the latest stuff but I can install software with 99% certainty that it will work because the maintainers have built and tested the packages.

And when I say that you're a niche user I don't mean to belittle you. Nor do I intend to put you on a pedestal. Gentoo is attractive to you. Debian is attractive to me. RedHat is attractive to other people. They all fit a particular niche. Gentoo offers features that you find attractive and this makes Gentoo a worthwhile distribution. But don't make the mistake of thinking that because you find Gentoo fun that everybody "with a little Linux experience" will find it fun too. I've tried Gentoo and RedHat and I think RedHat is more "fun" as a desktop. But that's because I think compiling software is boring and pointless.

The diversity in Linux distributions is an incredible strength. If there was only one Linux distribution then I strongly believe there would be fewer Linux users.

What much of the discussion is missing ...

[twilight30]

Is the fact that the issue is one of control, not source-v-binary. In this case you suggest, the question would be, 'Which packages are important?'

If you want a desktop, you will have different needs to desiring a server. You will want eye-candy. So who decides what the important packages are?

Policy dictates, if you use Debian. Something or other, if you use Red Hat or Mandrake. Gentoo and LFS put the control in your hands.

Doing what you suggest can be done, but the question of control then comes up. Either you trust others to know their Linux (binary), or you dig yourself and come up with the goods (source).

For me, it's Debian unstable. I don't have time to look at recompiling all the source for any machine at the moment, though I won't rule it out. And I have no problem whatsoever following what the Debian Project recommends as the results have been nearly perfect thus far.

It really depends on what you want to do.

Re:Source based vs. Binary based: Possible comprom

[dattaway]

rpm --rebuild

heh, I did this with redhat over the years and while it can be done, it just doesn't seem natural. Tarballs are easy to work with if a person likes to have the source as a quick reference to why things work. Having a source tree available is like having the most comprehensive man pages if I want to know the most obscure details.

With a source based distribution, the temptation to tinker and try interesting hacks out is overwhelming. Gentoo provides an environment that is friendly for making changes if one wants control how far across the system modifications will reach. I don't see how it would be possible for rpm --rebuild to recompile just the system or selected parts of the world, while emerge makes this easy.

Re:Gentoo Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Calling it GNU/Linux doesn't reflect the work of many many other volunteers. Maybe it should be calle d AlanCox/KDEteam/xmms/Mozilla/GNU/Linux? Why should GNU get so much credit for writing a compiler and few other tools.. if I wrote a w32 compatible OS using VC++ am I obliged to call it Microsoft/MyOS?? Of course not.

Re:Gentoo Baby

[Bronster]

All it took on my Gentoo boxes was a simple:
emerge -u openssh

Whereas on my Debian boxes at work it was a simple:

% apt-get update
% apt-get upgrade

and I didn't have to wait while it re-built.

Re:An alternative to Gentoo...

[amarodeeps]

I've used both LFS and Gentoo. The basic fact is, LFS is wonderful for learning about Linux but doesn't have anything comparable to Portage. Indeed, LFS doesn't have any kind of package management system except one you set up yourself. That's one example of a major difference which might have you choosing a Gentoo install over "doing" LFS.

Now, I loved doing LFS, it was great to learn more about Linux, see what depended on what and compile things "by hand," but when I was looking for an upgrade, I didn't want to spend the time, so I picked Gentoo: it's very low-level in some nice ways, but doesn't make me doing every single little thing to get it running. They are two different distributions (if you can call LFS a distribution) with different positive points. So why compare them like this? You're just trolling and spreading confusion. Please explain what you mean when you say "LFS...accomplishes much of what Gentoo has set out to accomplish but without all of the superfluous extras." Is a BSD-style ports system superfluous? Superfluous is what is superfluous to you depending on your needs. This is why we have different distributions. So what are you talking about, what is your point?

BTW, Gentoo does also have a PPC version, please check your facts or make sure you are saying what you mean to say before posting: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/gentooppc-quickstart.htm l [gentoo.org].

to each their own

[Anonymous Coward]

like flavors in an icecream store, this will not appeal to everyone. However, the detractors (while failing to understand personal choice and freedom to manifest it) will also fail to understand that their favorite distro has many of the same problems. The entertaining aspect is listening/reading people bitch about things while praising another, and knowing that simple reasoning skills would let even chimpanzees understand that there is no mutual exclusivity between what they claim is bad and what they praise as good. Red is Bad! I love my new red ball!

Still, many are wondering if Debian will ever be able to release a 'stable' (as classified by them officially) 2.4 Kernel and all the things that depend on it.

Re:Gentoo is great!!

[nathanm]

The diversity in Linux distributions is an incredible strength.

That's not entirely true. There's strength in unity: software runs on Linux across an incredible variety of distributions and platforms. Diversity gives Linux an advantage for survival, but it's not a strength.

If there was only one Linux distribution then I strongly believe there would be fewer Linux users.

I agree wholeheartedly!

Re:Gentoo Linux

[ZxCv]

> Why should GNU get so much credit for writing a compiler and few other tools.

Because if you were to remove the compiler and "few other tools" like glib you'd be left with a pile of neat source code.

That's like saying that because my car requires gas to function, that it should be called a Nissan Texaco/Altima, or a Nissan Chevron/Altima. If I were to remove that precious gas, I'd be left with a pile of metal. I do lack the time to make my car go without gas, so I guess I won't be ditching it anytime soon. But I won't be prepending Texaco/ or Chevron/ or anything else in order to show my appreciation.