Walmart Ships PCs with Lindows OS 962
Tonetheman writes "Walmart is now shipping low cost PC's with Lindows pre-installed. And yes I know there was a review earlier on Slashdot about installing Linux on one of these bad boys. This is different and much more exciting. To think of the legions of rednecks who could now possibly be running Lindows instead of Windows..." There's a Newsforge story too. Hopefully Lindows makes a good impression.
hm.... (Score:2, Interesting)
Good for Walmart. (Score:5, Interesting)
Screw the "legions of rednecks" idea, I believe there are many people who are curious enough about other OSes to get an extra computer, especially since they are supposed to be cheap, from Walmart just to poke around. Who knows once the average Joe realized that their are other options maybe he'll download some Debian images and never use Windows again.
Cheers to Walmart, good job guys.
A better argument for "not for pirated Windows" (Score:1, Interesting)
I hope they harden them. (Score:5, Interesting)
The sum of all Lindows fears.
Windows Compatible (Score:3, Interesting)
The ad says:
(Emphasis in bold not added) When you say this to the general public (which is pretty much the Wal-Mart crowd), you're saying that most programs will work exactly as they do under Windows, and not just run for a few *seconds* and crashing most of the time (like many do under Wine). Is theirs a reasonable claim? If not, it could make Linux look bad in general.
Walmart vendetta against Microsoft? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Lindows? Is it ready? (Score:2, Interesting)
Where I live (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly (Score:5, Interesting)
The hardware may be crud, but if it is, drag it down the block to WalMart and get a replacement box. And now that it has an OS included, you can prove that the hardware is broke.
This is not to say "Behold WalMart, our savior", but rather to say "Now that Microsoft has some serious threat to worry about, we may be able to catch our breath before heading back into the arena..."
And at $300 bucks, assembled, with warranty, it practically meets my definition for "buy it for the parts".
Re:the "wal-mart crowd" (Score:3, Interesting)
Aren't we always saying that it's the non-technical users who make up the bulk of the market, and who, in the end, will finally break the back of the MS monopoly on the desktop market?
Besides, I really doubt that the "Billy Bob" type users will be buying this. They are going to stick with the brand name they know -- Microsoft. It's the somewhat adventurous types who will buy into this, just because it's different, or cutting edge, or "revolutionary". Those are the people who may not have enough money to go out and plunk down $1500 for a new Dell and set out on their own, but lower the entrance barriers just a little bit, and they'll jump for it.
On the other hand. (Score:3, Interesting)
Gamecompatibility scares me, though.
Wal-Mart makes Windows a commodity product (Score:4, Interesting)
Previously, Linux and other alternatives have been positioned as being too disimilar to Windows for the average consumer to take notice. While early adopters and niche users may see the differences as the key selling points, the average consumer is looking for compatibility and familiarity FIRST, then other advantages SECOND (price, stability, and misc. features).
Wal-Mart's actions not only position alternative operating systems in a different light, they also serve to re-position Windows itself by making the Windows Operating System appear to be a commodity like the PC has long been. When advertising the compatibility of Lindows, their enormous market power allow them to be more liberal with their use of the Microsoft and Windows brandnames than your average software developer or computer retailer could ever chance.
This is may be very analogous to what happened to the IBM PC vs. the clones as well as the situation with generic drugs. Many continue to buy the "genuine" branded article, but others will take personal pride in buying the "same" product for less - and maybe even with some different or better features thrown in for free.
This might be a first step in fragmenting the market around a common Windows compatible "standard" offered by multiple vendors at competitive prices. Also, it could result in opening more people's eyes to the advantages of using non-Windows based systems to meet their individual needs. I imagine that the reality will be somewhere in the middle, and that this will be a good thing for both consumers and business.
Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Not necessarily a good thing (Score:3, Interesting)
Wal-Mart *IS* a technology focused company. (Score:5, Interesting)
> Walmart isn't really rooted in the technology industry
utter bullshit.
Guess who has the largest *private* database in the world. (and is the SOLE reason that NCR Teradata is still alive) Wal-Mart (with somewhere around 130TB in thier Topend system)
Guess who has the largest single IMAP install in the world? Wal-Mart Guess who is (or was) Dell's Largest customer...Wal-Mart
Guess who employees over 1400 in house (not contractors) programmers (in a single location (ok, you can split hairs with SMWDC/DMGTC being seperate)...Wal-Mart
Guess which retail chain bet the bank on EDI before the next 6 largest guys even thought of it...Wal-Mart
With over 2500 stores and a sub 2 second transaction time to *all of them* , how the heck did you think they were *NOT* a technology based company!?
That crap about Wally world not being a technology company is baloney. Sam Walton bet the bank on computer technology when his rivals were still using paper invoices.
I would note that the decision to sell Lindows prob has nothing to do with Wal-Mart as a company, but a lot to do with what it's Buyers and Marketing dept think will sell. (To those who have never worked in the corporate side of retail, Buyers are the guys/gals who buy the things the company then sells to it's customers, they typically work out the deals, many retail firms use independant buyers, but Wally world (and a few, very few) other companies do it all in house)).
If someone really wants to know why they are selling Lindows, then ship off a message to president@wal-mart.com, The are quite good about responding, though I'm not sure what their answer will be.
About the crack about rednecks buying Lindows...what do you think the average demographic of a Wally world online customer is? I'm willing to bet it's not ma and pa kettle in podunk Arkansas.
--Tadghe, former WalMartian.
Show some respect. (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Lindows? Is it ready? (Score:2, Interesting)
Walmart is no hero..... (Score:3, Interesting)
What I see happening is a bunch of people buying these Lindows boxes believing that they can run any Windows software on it. When they find out this is not the case, they'll blame Linux/Lindows. Then they will have a (albeit misguided) distaste for Linux and be convinced that MS is the only way to go.
I don't see this as any kind of victory. I see it as a disaster waiting to happen.
Re:Not easy enough... (Score:4, Interesting)
<persuasionspeech option=prolinux>
Of course, that's user experience of someone who has probably been brought up using Windows. Of course, it won't be as easy to use for her.
I just built a dual-boot system for my Aunt, Uncle, and three cousins. None of them have ever touched a computer for more than an hour in their life.
I showed my cousins (girls ages 8, 10, and 12) how to use Windows, and then how to use linux. When I showed them how to browse from their home directory up two levels, and into the mounted windows partition, their first question was why they couldn't do the same thing from Windows! Youngsters are bright, and pick up these things very quickly!
Before long, they had found ways to change their background (in KDE), to a background from the /dos1/windows directory, on their own! They never hit the "taskbar hiccup" you're referring to.
The ten year old quickly decided that she was going to use gnome. Her reason? She liked using the "Cool: sunglasses" icon overlay for her documents, available with about 7 others by right clicking, and choosing properties on any icon. I didn't even know such stuff was in there!
When newbies grab onto linux over windows because of eye candy, you can tell that the balance is getting ready to shift. Will it be far enough for us to feel it? I think I can finally answer that with a "likely".
</persuasionspeech>
This is big (Score:3, Interesting)
For once a true Linux advantage... (Score:1, Interesting)
They arranged their site so as to make side-by-side comparisons of Linux/Windows configurations difficult, and for good reason. The Linux configurations always gave you less hardware for more money (including the OS) than the closest Windows-based configurations. Dell support for Linux? A big fat lie.
Well, the Wal-Mart Microtek pages are a completely different story. You get 1 page with all the no-OS systems and another with all the Lindows-based systems. Not only do the Lindows-based systems cost the same as comparable 'naked' systems, they actually seem a little more current on the hardware. The $598 Lindows box has a 1.8GHz P4 compared to a 1.6GHz P4 on the $599 naked box. So, if you're not happy with the choice of Lindows, it looks like at least it's not costing you anything. Replace it with RH, Mdk, etc. At least you know the hardware is supported.
In other words, it looks like Wal-Mart's support for Linux is real, unlike Dell, which was either
1. Jumping on the Linux bandwagon to preempt IBM.
2. Providing a 'no monopoly' fig leaf for MS at a high point in their anti-trust trial.
Either way, Dell was definitely setting Linux up to look bad. And then they pulled it from the market citing 'lack of demand'. Hell, you don't even see Linux mentioned for servers any more in Dell catalogs, despite the recent RH/Dell/Oracle announcement. No friend in Dell. And unless you can convice me otherwise, an outight enemy (despite the disingenuous lip service).
Re:the "wal-mart crowd" (Score:3, Interesting)
When I was a teenager, I had a friend that had 3 bros and 3 sis's. They *needed* WalMart to survive. If they had cheap computers running Lindows for cheap, then they'd have been able to get on the net.
When will Microsoft foil Wine? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Lindows? Is it ready? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:heh.. (Score:3, Interesting)
$300 Duron...no FDD (Score:4, Interesting)
One little detail about that Duron (although it's probably not a big detail) is that they left out the floppy drive on that model.
With bootable CD-ROMs and networks not having a floppy is not a big problem, but for the first-timer this could be a big problem.
Oh yeah, Fry's is entering the $300 market soon...actually sub-$300. They will be putting out a Celeron 1GHz machine, preloaded with ThizLinux, whatever the fsck that is. They're just waiting on the shipment at this point. And this one *has* a floppy drive.
Actually it would be better if they all did preloads with Lycoris Linux [lycoris.com] but still, it is a good thing that Walmart has the guts to do this. So far, Microsoft hasn't complained. I think they realize that even an 800lb. Gorilla like MS has to pick their battles.
Do they really need Windows? (Score:5, Interesting)
The problem for me, however, was that I was 16/17 at the time I was selling these computers, living at home. I got all my referrals from my mom, since she knew the people. She has seen me coding in a Linux console, and after seeing that, started spreading anti-Linux FUD to all the people she was referring to me ("He'll build you a great computer, but he'll try to put Linux on it -- don't let him do that."). I found this out when people started specifically asking NOT to have Linux on their machines (though I've never sold a Linux machine to anyone). Star Craft and Half-Life both run under WineX.
What's the point of this rambling? If you are young and live at home, make sure your parents don't spread Linux FUD, and if you are older, make sure your wife doesn't spread Linux FUD, and if you're old and single, well, get out more. But the real moral of the story is: most people don't need Windows, or even the apps they're used to. Give them a few of their staple apps, such as Star Craft, Quicken, Word, and then fill in the rest with Open Source software, and slowly convert them away from their staple apps (and convert game programmers away from their staple OS). This is exactly what Lindows is doing.
Some people think Lindows will take over Linux and become a Linux monopoly, others think Lindows will just act as the gateway into a new world of software. Whatever. See above for the point of this disjointed, redundant rambling.
Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly (Score:3, Interesting)
You may be right. However, I would argue that people buying this PC are either first timers (and thus don't know the difference) or they're ex-Windows users who want to replace their aging PC. In either case, a Linux-based solution will knock the socks off of em.
If they're new to computers, someone they know probably has one and that's why they bought one for themselves. But their pals probably don't have the latest MS OS, and even if they did, it's probably running on the same hardware as these Walmart PCs. I have to give the advantage to the Lindows-based PC (with regards to dealing with cheapo hardware).
If they're replacing an old computer, they probably have a very old PC, perhaps early Pentium, and thus they probably run Windows 95 and crash 3 times an hour. Again, I have to give the advantage to the Lindows-based PC.
What no one's seemed to mention yet is that AMD has gotten a good deal out of this too, especially if this takes off. I also wonder who makes the various chipsets on the board (if it was SIS that'd be great).
Re:Lindows? Is it ready? (Score:4, Interesting)
Apologies, I shouldn't have said "Genuine Windows", I should have said "Genuine Microsoft Windows".
This issue has been decided in court. Microsoft Windows is a trademark of Microsoft. Windows is a generic term. Lindows is a trademark of... ummm... someone else (chuckle).
If a salesman or anyone else indicates that Lindows is Microsoft Windows then they are at fault. Complain to the store. Get a refund. Sue them if need be. It is not Lindow's responsibility.
P.S.
impressed if Lindows actually ran MOST Windows software
Yes, exactly what it does/doesn't run is an interesting question.
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Interview possibility (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly (Score:5, Interesting)
- lUser buys a Lindows PC from walmart
- lUser cannot figure out how to cut and paste from the Mozilla web browser to Abiword (a harsh welcome to Xwindows indeed). Worse, he never did figure out that to print he had to type "ghostview - | lpr -Pepson277
- lUser realizes that the "screen is ugly" (i.e. fonts suck)
- lUser cannot get onto The AOL.
- of 100,000 units sold, 70,000 get returned.
- walmart takes a bath. "Linux Sucks" is now "proven" to all the business execs with buying power. Nothing scares the CFO like "losing money."
- Linux returns to it's ashes, the supergeek community.
linux may not be ready for this, folks.
Re:Windows Compatible (Score:2, Interesting)
They've stated to insiders that their goal is not to run most, or even alot of windows applications...but just to run certain apps that are "critical".
I think that they're the ones who decide if it's "critical" or not.
Most of the time their response to questions about specific apps is met with "have you tried xxxx linux program?"
This will backfire (Score:4, Interesting)
Now that Walmart is selling these Lindows machines I see a similar problem. Joe User buys a computer, but he can't run half the apps his friend can run, like games. He takes the computer back to Walmart, gets his money back and swears the Lindows sucks. So now in his mind Lindows sucks and anything that sounds like Lindows (i.e. Linux) sucks too. After a couple of months Walmart will get tired of giving people their money back and stop selling computers with Lindows installed. Now it's not just a failure on Walmart, but on Lindows which in turn is a failure for Linux and the Open Source community.
Hence MS now has more fuel for their fud campaigns. I don't see this as a winning situation for Linux or OSS.
Most Americans shop at Walmart and they will sell a lot of these computers. This really looks bad to me, really bad.
On the other hand, I don't really care if Linux "beats" MS. I like my Debian whether Joe Shmoe does or not.
Walmart disguising Linux as Windows? (Score:1, Interesting)
Cheap cluster? (Score:3, Interesting)
This will never work (Score:2, Interesting)
They'll sell a mediocre amount of PC's with Lindows, and it will do jack squat for the Linux and/or Linux gaming community. It'll also confuse the consumer, which is an utter moron when it comes to purchasing hardware or software-- especially at a WalMart. What it may do, is force PC makers who sell Windows to rethink their strategy. They're being bullied into selling Windows, and it costs them big bucks.
Don't get me wrong, here. I like WalMart. I like the idea of a cheap, usable computer. I don't dislike the average person's reasons for buying a computer... but this will utterly fail. Linux is the polar opposite of a beginner's OS.
Re:Haha..... (Score:4, Interesting)
"Redneck" is a race-blind slur.
I went to middle school with white, black, and hispanic rednecks. and i'm glad i no longer have to deal with any of them.
"Cracker" or "White Trash" is the slur you're looking for.
however the difference between those and "nigger" is nigger implies nothing about culture or economic standing. it's purely racist. racists might call Colin Powell or Halle Berry niggers, but you wouldn't call a rich promonent white person White Trash or a Redneck.
cultural slurs, while still offensive, bother me less than outright racial slurs.
I almost bought a couple... (Score:3, Interesting)
The only thing that stopped me was that these machines were slightly too low-end for me. The $500 unit with the Athlon XP1800+ would've worked nicely. The main problem is the default hard drive, a 40GB, 5400 RPM clunker. If I'd had the option to upgrade to a faster drive, I'd've grabbed 'em.
Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly (Score:4, Interesting)
So what was your arguement? Maybe you should *try* Lindows before bashing it.
Re:So much for the "Linux Populism" theory (Score:3, Interesting)
I mean sure it's easy to dismiss buyers in rural areas as just a bunch of ignorant yokels unable to RTFM or even the description on the box to realize that they are not getting a pre-packaged Windows system with Microsoft Works. I think this is ignoring the fact that cottage industries and agricultural producers are increasingly relying on information technology in order just to survive in the marketplace. This is a sector that is pioneering GIS and GPS applications for agriculture [precisionfarming.com] while universities are dicking around with tracking students. There is a huge market out there of farmers and craftspeople who do everything on a shoestring staff (or even solo) and a shoestring budget from finding the cheapest supplier, to tracking inventory, accounting, quality control, marketing, and shipping. This is a group of potential users that strongly values performance, reliability, and value. Perhaps more importantly they are a group of users quite capable of fixing their own problems.
So certainly, I can see a huge market for not only Linux but also mysql, Apache, and openoffice in the rural areas served by Wal-Mart.