Walmart Ships PCs with Lindows OS 962
Tonetheman writes "Walmart is now shipping low cost PC's with Lindows pre-installed. And yes I know there was a review earlier on Slashdot about installing Linux on one of these bad boys. This is different and much more exciting. To think of the legions of rednecks who could now possibly be running Lindows instead of Windows..." There's a Newsforge story too. Hopefully Lindows makes a good impression.
Lindows? Is it ready? (Score:1, Insightful)
Superiority complex? (Score:0, Insightful)
Call me crazy, but... (Score:2, Insightful)
Walmart is big enough to make this fly (Score:5, Insightful)
A company as large as Walmart might be just big enough and have enough bargain-basement customers to make this fly. And at $299 for the Duron 850mhz model, who can't afford one of these.
One problem I can see is that the hardware in these systems might(and probably is) of sub-par level. Instability issues caused by poor hardware quality may undermine the "frugal" consumer's viewpoint of the *nix OS enviroment. Not to mention that they'll have a hard time finding tech support locally considering that most tech shops are generally geared towards MS products and not Linux.
Will games be tested with wine now? (Score:5, Insightful)
AFAIK, Lindows is based on wine. Wal-Mart customers will tend to buy a lot of games for their computer. Sounds to me like manufactures will soon find it a requirement to test their games with Lindows, and thus they will be wine compatable too.
Not as good as native linux games, but a close second. If nothing else this could drive some real compitition to microsoft!
If only it works... I'm not holding my breath yet.
windows (Score:1, Insightful)
"legions of rednecks?" (Score:2, Insightful)
and second of all, why would you be so excited about these legions of rednecks using lindows? does nobody here see that computers today are the same as automobiles in the 50s and 60s -- that, back then, it was an elite group of youngsters that really got into the maintenance of and differences between various machines. now mechanics are a dime a dozen, and near the bottom rung of the social ladder, in most places. indeed, they are rednecks. santayana [brainyquote.com] would know what warning to give.
Wal-Mart (Score:1, Insightful)
Wal-Mart IS the Evil Empire and are destroying America one Super Center at a time.
The Wal-Mart company in the largest company in the world.
5 of the 10 richest people are Waltons.
They force the suppliers they have to produce products off shore to make them cheaper.
Don't shop at Wal-Mart of Sam's Club.
Not easy enough... (Score:4, Insightful)
To me, it didn't seem to be much more than KDE2 default with a pretty picture for the background. This is a problem. KDE default is NOT intuitive to Windows users.
I am currently helping a co-worker who is curious about Linux learn her way around on one of the spare machines here. Her first question (w/ RH 7.3 default) was that even after 10 minutes of poking at stuff she could not find the taskbar buried in with all that other stuff. That was just the beginning.
If you are going to cater to the Windows crowd you have to _really_ cater to them, not just change the icon theme.
Re:the "wal-mart crowd" (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe you people should be glad that Wal-Mart is embracing something other than Windows, instead of being so damn smug. Get off your high horse and join the movement, or shut the f*** up.
That's all I have to say about that.
heh.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Could Put Lindows/Wal-Mart in a Sitcky Spot (Score:5, Insightful)
It sounds funny, but just wait till they buy and try to install something made for Windows. Much to their surprise, it won't work, and they'll be calling up Wal-Mart asking them what kind of shinanigans they were trying to pull.
Now I haven't seen the packaging for these Lindows PCs, but I'd be willing to bet that some people COULD be confused into believing they're in fact buying a Windows PC. When they do discover their error, they'll think they were suckered into buying some kind of like a cheap knock-off (don't have the exact appropriate Simpsons quote).
If that happens, it's probably not the kind of PR that Lindows is looking for. Both Lindows and Wal-Mart have to be very careful to make sure the differences between Windows and Lindows are clearly explained.
Linux doesn't win. (Score:3, Insightful)
Sure this might be a loss for Microsoft, but it's certainly not a win for Linux.
OS X (Score:3, Insightful)
We're talking Mac's with OS X, right?
Must be great to be a WINE developer.... (Score:1, Insightful)
It's kind of sad, really.
You know for all the whining you all do... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Linux doesn't win. (Score:2, Insightful)
About the only issue that I can see for the average home user is the problem with Microsoft's proprietary streaming media formats, and financial software. But if we can avoid using quicken or money with a usable version of gnucash then we're all going to be better off anyway.
Looks like they are trying to let the public know (Score:2, Insightful)
Taken from the site [walmart.com]
I like the low cost alternative line. Looks to to me like they are selling barebones boxes and including lindows to stop MS from starting some kind of legal war. Saying that Wal-Mart is encouraging warez.
Re:windows (Score:4, Insightful)
This will NOT create a legion of new Linux users (Score:5, Insightful)
So, who has access to the Wal*Mart website? Those people who already have a computer. Who goes to Wal*Mart.com to buy a PC? Outside of those people that want an OS-less PC to install Linux on, probably not a large number of people.
This isn't going to convert unsuspecting people to Linux users (a dangerous thing to wish for at any rate). It isn't going to spread Linux to the mass market. It isn't going to steal any appreciable market share away from Microsoft.
It's noteworthy for the fact that a major retailer has thumbed their nose at Microsoft. But, that same major retailer is only thumbing their nose while behind a box in a locked room with the shades drawn so that the world can not really see that they are doing it.
If other major computer resellers follow suit (which I doubt they will), then this will become interesting. Now, though, it's nothing more than YALPOS (Yet Another Linux Post On Slashdot)
Is it easy to call the Innernet? (Score:3, Insightful)
Personally, I've avoided helping out home users with all their GD windows problems for years, as I'm not about to waste my time working free tech support for multi-billionaires, but if I meet someone with one of these it'd be fun to talk shop with them.
rednecks? you should be so fortunate (Score:5, Insightful)
But what makes this observation interesting is that their is also an undercurrent of clubiness (sic?) about the whole thing. The idea that the masses could actually start using Linux is troubling to this group, as it would dilute the cachet of the club. This is bizarre to say the least, as mainstream adoption of Linux would only serve to achieve the first point, respect, and of course the other obsession, deflation of microsoft.
I don't take particular offense to the redneck comments, but you would really have to be an idiot to think that only rednecks shop at Walmart. I mean, christ, they have over $200b in sales. I guess the only thing that would make you a bigger idiot is to not understand how many personal computers are sold in the US annually, and how many of them go through channels like walmart.
Re:the "wal-mart crowd" (Score:2, Insightful)
Hey, wait, does that mean that since the Lindows staff are all inherently Insiders, that they are all rednecks as well?
Whoa, hold on! They are contributing to the general software cause that we all love to talk about here on Slashdot. Does that mean all contributors to the well-being of Linux and alternative OSes, Slashdot readers, and everyone else that uses a computer is a redneck?
I think I've made my point somewhere herein.
me
Re:Linux doesn't win. (Score:2, Insightful)
Umm.. Yeah it is a win. People aren't going to go out and buy MS Office if there's already this nice FREE Open Office program pre-installed that they can use. That goes for many of the other programs that Lindows comes with.
The fact is, people won't get it unless they at least have the option to run windows programs. If more people start using Lindows, they will certainly be more apt to use Linux programs since they'll run better. As more people use Linux programs, more companies will support the operating system.
Isn't giving people options what Linux is all about?
Re:Lindows? Is it ready? (Score:4, Insightful)
It isn't windows.
If what you expect Genuine Windows then BUY Genuine Windows.
Hopefully the good differences will be better than the bad differences, but there is a difference. I've never used it, so I don't know if it's "ready".
-
"legions of rednecks" (Score:5, Insightful)
To think of the legions of rednecks who could now possibly be running Lindows instead of Windows
Could you be more condescending?
~jeff
Re:"legions of rednecks?" (Score:3, Insightful)
I resent that!...I don't have acne scars, ha!
Don't think the 'mechanic' analogy holds up though.
The types of people who where Engineers who designed cars in the 50's are still designing cars and getting good paychecks of it (not as good as management, but still significantly above the national average).
The types of young kids who simply goofed around with the cars were never on much money, they are akin to script kiddies and warez doodz who don't make any money now.
Real Engineers are still Engineers and are as such worth money no matter what industry they are in (Automotive, Aerospace, Telecomunications, Computing).
There is a difference between being able to fix or tinker with a car (or computer) and knowing how to design a car (or a computer). 'Mechanics' and 'Engineers' are not the same thing.
People who write software, or maintain corporate networks or computing faclilites are in a whole different world for a guy who can mearly 'build his own PC' or 'install Linux'.
When red necks and trailer trash start writing their own software at home, and parking rusty PC's out side their front door I'll get worried.
Re:the "wal-mart crowd" (Score:1, Insightful)
Last I saw rednecks were just as willing to spread the wealth and make fun of just about anyone else you can think of so that makes them fair game too.
Just to put a nice closing spin on things I'm liable to come to your desk to provide your tech support with a pinch of Copenhagen under my lip.
I work in Houston Texas. We could very easily have the highest percentage of rednecks in the entire United States. We drive trucks, we wear cowboy boots, and a large number of us like at least a few songs by David Allen Coe. A lot of those same people also know their way around distro or two so all is not always as it seems.
I don't take the jokes too seriously and niether should anyone else.
others will need to compete now (Score:4, Insightful)
Predictions (Score:1, Insightful)
Within six months WalMart will join Dell in backing off from Linux on the desktop once they see that the boxes just won't sell to their customer set without Windows preinstalled.
The result of all this will be that the vast majority of the business market will only become further entrenched in their opinion that Linux makes a very nice low and mid-level server OS, but has too many problems to use on the desktop.
Re:Haha..... (Score:4, Insightful)
Frankly, the usage of "redneck" in this case is classically racist! The author has no knowledge whatsoever of the individuals purchasing these computers, and is making broad generalizations as to what types of people shop at Walmart. (I suppose the "niggers" shop at K-Mart, eh?)
It would be more appropriate and acceptable to yell "Fucking goddamned nigger!" at a baggy-pants black youth crossing on a green light. Or if it was a dumpy white lady, "You fucking fat-ass bitch!" Or an Asian, "Me rikey you go faster, cross walk long time!!"
Cultural hot-words can be used to express displeasure with an
However, the article summary's use of "redneck" lambasts the very market most Linux zealots pretend to want to conquer -- the common working man. And it appears it was done merely as a way to demean other people via the use of a loophole in politically correct dogma.
heehheeh lomaolf!!!!
Very interesting double standard (Score:2, Insightful)
At least the people Microsoft empoly get paid well.
Re:Wal-Mart makes Windows a commodity product (Score:2, Insightful)
Lindows is enough different from Windows that I think the people that I see buying computers at walmart will end up confused and displeased when thier favorite games won't play. (does lindows support all the fancy DirectX graphics stuff yet?)
Still I'm interested enough at this point to download the iso and check out the distribution.
Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Lindows? Is it ready? (Score:2, Insightful)
Ah, but when someone goes into WalMart and says "Does this run Windows?", the Sales Rep. is more than likely going to be one of two people:
1. The kind who says "No, it runs Lindows, but Lindows can run all of the Windows Programs, so they're basically the same."
2. The kind who thinks is actually is Windows, because they have never used a computer other than the cash register and says "Yeah, it runs Windows." and goes back to dusting off TVs.
I would be really impressed if Lindows actually ran MOST Windows software as the ad claims. I would be even more impressed if the "Windows software" they are talking about only includes the latest productivity and entertainment software. I wouldn't be impressed if "MOST" refers to old Windows 3.1 games and MSPAINT.EXE.
WalMart? What's with you people? (Score:1, Insightful)
Can anyone explain this to me?
NO love lost for Walmart, but "rednecks"? (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, if Target would just do the same thing with a slightly upscale ($50 increase), neatly-designed case in the fashion of most of their homegrown goods, we'd really be in business.
Re:Very interesting double standard (Score:3, Insightful)
Who's paying for Office? (Score:3, Insightful)
Gotta Love the Linux Crowd (Score:2, Insightful)
AOL the Killer App. (Score:5, Insightful)
It proves nothing..... (Score:3, Insightful)
Support? (Score:4, Insightful)
What I'm curious about is the tech support issue. It seems to me that by offering a Lindows pre-installed PC, it's now in Wal*Mart's interest to see Lindows be as stable as possible and as compatable with Windows applications as possible.
Does anyone suppose they plan to help out Lindows development if, say, the next version of some popular Windows software doesn't work with Lindows? Now that would really impress me. (And then I'd think about buying one of these boxes.)
Re:Could Put Lindows/Wal-Mart in a Sitcky Spot (Score:4, Insightful)
Why would they assume it's a problem with Lindows and not with the program they are trying to install? Think about it this way - if they were running Windows, bought a copy of Photoshop, and unsuccessfully tried to install it, would they call Microsoft or Adobe? They would call Adobe, of course. Let's just hope they use the same logic with Lindows. If enough people do this with software that breaks under Wine, the companies publishing that software will eventually figure out that it's worth the extra day or two to debug their software under Wine before shipping it.
Re:Users aren't allowed to run Internet Explorer (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Wal-Mart *IS* a technology focused company. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Impression? (Score:1, Insightful)
When you buy a $200 car, I'm sure not everything is going to work properly, but you understand that, because it was cheap. Same goes for computers. "Hey, this one is only $299 while these others are $800!"
The target audience for these systems is the average joe who wants to surf the 'Net, get email, write the odd letter on a word processor, and maybe play a game or two. LindowsOS is perfect for that and the user doesn't have to pay the Microsoft tax.
The only problem I have with this is how it's marketed. They'd better be damn clear that it's NOT Windows and that not every Win32 program will run perfectly under it. From what I see, they do advertise this and I hope they continue to.
Ok they beat MS lawsuit. How about GNU? (Score:1, Insightful)
as someone who grew up in arkansas (Score:4, Insightful)
many of you shop there.
currently the waltons (son's and daughters of sam so to speak) have more money than gates and ellison combined.
all this was made by a redneck without a college education. hell i dont even think he had a highschool education.
it's nice to see that by getting educated and growing up in a civilized society you all (y'all if you like) have become tolerant understanding people forgoing prejudice towards your fellow human beings.
Re: Is it ready? (Score:5, Insightful)
develpment is that you can't find all the
sticky problems until you get real users
using the thing.
Consider Mozilla: progress was slow until
the 0.9.x milestones, then all of a sudden
it was good enough that a lot of users who
tried it liked it enough to start using it
as their regular browser, and whammo, the
bugs started dropping like flies, and it
shaped up incredibly in just a few weeks.
Same thing with Linux. Technical excellence
aside, it was nowhere near ready for the
typical end user until quite recently, but
as the user base spreads beyond developers
to end users, amazing strides are made in
its _usability_ for end users. There's a
breaking point somewhere, where enough
users adopt a piece of software that the
bugs show up and can be fixed. You don't
reach that point without early adopters.
Re:If there is hope, it lies in the proles (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:"legions of rednecks?" (Score:5, Insightful)
This is not true.
One of my best friends in college made $50k right out of school, and was making a six figure salary at age 22
Though this is not the norm, it isn't bad for a two year degree. Mechanics earn a lot more money than the old days, partly because now you need to know what you're doing, but mostly because there is a shortage of mechanics to fill positions. Not exactly a dime a dozen.
Bullshit attitudes like yours towards mechanics are among the reasons why I am no longer a mechanic myself. Yes, there are some weasels out there, but saying that mechanics are rednecks, is like saying that all programmers are pizza faced, mountain dew drinking, slobs who don't shower. Take a moment to step off your elite pedestal and try becoming informed.
Re:Here's a link to walmart's online store.. (Score:2, Insightful)
These computers do not ship with Microsoft Windows. They ship with an exciting new UNIX based Operating System (OS) named Lindows. This exciting new OS delivers the stability of UNIX with the ease of Windows and the ability to run most Microsoft programs. These computer systems are a perfect low cost alternative to computers preloaded with Microsoft Windows
Still I see your point that consumers are sometimes so stupid that they won't understand.
Re:twin towers (Score:1, Insightful)
First clue: that's not the twin towers, that not even NYC.
Second: Not every reference or image the towers has to be censored, treated with kid gloves, or "put in appropriate context." Do you want to live in a society like Japan's, where large parts of history are simply ignored and not talked about ? How far are you willing to take this PC bullshit ?
Re:"legions of rednecks" (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:*omg* is it even out of beta already? (Score:5, Insightful)
I think that this is the real reason. They don't want to catch 10 kinds of hell from MS about selling "naked" PCs, so they throw Lindows on it instead. Net cost to them? Nothing. Bitching from MS about selling naked PCs? None. Net loss to a consumer who wants a naked PC in order to install a pirated copy of Windows? None. Bitching from MS about selling PCs with a competitor's product? None, if MS doesn't want to put a neon sign over their collective heads that reads "illegal use of monopoly power".
Besides, what likely is going to happen is that a user will get it home with Lindows, find out that it isn't Windows and it won't run whatever game they want to play, and then they'll come back to WallyWorld to buy a full copy of Windows XP. That's a bigger sale to WalMart and a bigger sale for MS. The only people who really have anything to lose from it are the Lindows folks who stand to gain a fair amount of negative press if they piss off consumers. Instead of looking like a company that is trying to bring Linux to the mainstream user with an easy-to-use compatible Windows-like interface they run the risk of looking like someone peddling a cheap knock-off that is trying to trade on Microsoft's name.
Re:Speaking of Rednecks... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly (Score:2, Insightful)
Yeah, like "Radio Shack sells UNIX" ten years ago (Score:2, Insightful)
The extent of UNIX penetration into the desktop mainstream was a topic of constant discussion
One day, Radio Shack announced that they would be selling UNIX-based systems. The announcement was widely carried as a news item in the trade press, often with deep-think commentary. Highly placed UNIX advocates within the company started circulating memos mentioning it, and in almost any conference-room discussion someone would say "It's all changed, haven't you heard, why even Radio Shack is selling UNIX now."
So I did a reality check.
About three months after the announcement, I walked into a Radio Shack. Not one of your mall stores, but one of the big Radio Shack Computer Centers or whatever they were called. I said I wanted to try out one of their UNIX systems hands-on, and I wanted a catalog showing what software they had for it.
After glad-handing me and assuring me that, yes, indeed, Radio Shack was backing UNIX to the hilt, they showed me their UNIX system.
Yes, they did have one.
It was a PC running XENIX. It was not turned on. They would not turn it on for me, because the only person who knew how to use it was a consultant who came in one day a week. There were no brochures, no sales material.
The only software catalog was their general PC software catalog, which had about 32 densely packed pages of (mostly) DOS-based software, several pages of Windows-based packages, and finally about four column-inches of UNIX offerings, most of which were UNIX itself. There were, I think, one or two Accounts Receivables packages and so forth.
It wasn't exactly untrue that Radio Shack was selling UNIX, but it certainly didn't mean what people thought it meant.
So much for the "Linux Populism" theory (Score:5, Insightful)
Do the Math guys (Score:2, Insightful)
Doing a quick & dirty math, I get a high end figure of
220,000 * 0.001 * 0.04 * 0.2 * 0.5 * 0.8
or 0.7 million dollars in sales or maybe around 1450 PC's. For Linux those maybe huge numbers, but remember their are 600 Million PC's in the world
Put it another way, Microtek doesn't sell any more number of PC's than an average white-box seller
Time for reality check & perspective
Roshan
Re:If there is hope, it lies in the proles (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, this is not a surprise. Think of stock car racing. It grew out of average folks with limited budgets buying commodity hardware and making it scream with a little tinkering. Today, NASCAR racing is big buisness and very popular with the Wal-Mart crowd. They are gifted with the hacker mentality.
Wal-Mart is just making it possible for the next generation of gear heads to soup up the next generation of hardware.
Think of this. So what if the hardware isn't on the high end. So what if all their Windows games aren't supported. I'd like to see people out there (eg. high school/trade school shop teachers/LUGs) showing people how to combine the power of their systems or tweak the shit out of them. Heck at $300 some folks would be willing risk gluing a refrigerator to their CPU!
The fun will come from racing the tweaked-out systems, bringing them together to render awesome graphics, or participating in multi-player games.
This is a HUGE opportunity to foster LUGs in places other than the "big city".
Good Luck.
You guys just don't get it. (Score:5, Insightful)
The almighty dollar.
Walmart does not care about Linux geeks clutching their little stuffed penguins and waving their "Open Source" flags. They do not care about someone who walks into a store to tell the tech department that they should sell machines with Linux on it. They care about money. They have always cared about money, and they always will care about money. They are the most efficient corporation in the whole world, and they are efficient because it makes money. Anyone who thinks that Walmart's #1 priority is not about money needs to take some courses in Economics, wake up, and smell the capitalism.
I've been working in the backstock rooms of Walmarts for three years now, and I've overheard the managers on quite a few occasions. Walmart demands cheap prices from their distributors. They're the #1 retailer in the US, so they have the power to do so. They lure distributors into their system by offering to sell thier product, then stab them in the back a year or two later and demand the product be cheaper, or they'll find someone else. This leads product manufacturers to use overseas labor and/or lower the quality of the product, all to stay buddies with Walmart. When you see the adds of Walmart lowering their prices, they can do so because its not their company that takes a hit in profits...it's the manufacturers that do.
I'm sure Walmart did the same thing with this Microtel company when they asked for computers. When Microtel was put under the gun to make a cheaper computer, I'm sure they cut every single corner. Just look at it from a $$$ perspective..."Hey Walmart, we got this OS that looks like Windows, runs like Windows, and can run %90 of Windows software, but we can put it on every machine for absolutely no charge!"...Walmart will say yes, because they now have a "Windows-ish" computer that sells for $100 less than the competition.
And for those of you who say that there might be a high-return rate? Walmart doesn't care. If people return their computers, all Walmart has to do is box it up and ship it back to Microtel. The only loss that they take is paying some 16-year old $2 to take the time to box it back up and stick it on a pallet. It's certainly worth their time, considering that these computers are %10-%20 cheaper than the competition. If it fails, Walmart returns the computers, Walmart dumps Microtel and finds another manufacturer, and Microtel goes belly-up, and Walmart leaves unscathed. If it's a success, Walmart gets the credit.
Wake up and smell the dollar bills.
Making a good impression.. (Score:2, Insightful)
This isn't a kick at Lindows - I haven't tried it out yet, but I do really want to - and I really admire that they have had the guts to have a go at a project like this..
Its just that for the average 'redneck user', Lindows just wont be Windows. You wont be able to play all your games, and you wont be able to run all your apps.. I wish it was possible to have perfect cross compatability but hey-ho..
It'll be interesting to see what happens though..
Lindows and WalMart (potential) (Score:2, Insightful)
If there is to be the software revolution for the consumer, the consumer is going to have to be the one to make the choice and must have the option readily available.
Desktop pre-installs of Lindows is doing just that. It is putting an alternative in front of the economic power base that must make the choice of acception or rejection.
Despite what it seems, marketing and product sales
is the one field that is controlled by the common person and not the high level wealth. Why else would you have millions paid for Nascar or motorbike sponsorships? Bus panels for public transit?
Potential harm to Linux on the whole? Limite in my views. As far as I understand, Lindows is being advertised not as Microsoft Windows or as a Linux distribution, but as a growing bridge between them.
This could very well be a wake up call to software manufacturers. Or it could very well be another software tombstone. Risk.
I have yet to try Lindows. But I would not that there would be proprietary workarounds for some of X's quirks.
Let's just see. Hey, after all, MSDOS and Windows
were built off of someone else's work. Look what we have now