Migrating Your Office from Windows to Linux? 682
bastiji asks: "I work at a mid-sized company, around 50 people and 90% M$ shop (10% being the Sun server doing our backups). Most of my users are using Office 85% of the time with some specialized apps thrown in for good measure. With the upcoming licensing changes from M$ my finance guys are worried about increased spending on even the software that we already own. I've been to told to look for alternatives and I'm asking for your help. How does one begin to do migration from a totally dependent M$ shop to the least expensive options. Are there any examples for mid-sized firms taking this route and any public examples of cost-savings?"
New MAC Server (Score:0, Insightful)
Those Specialized apps will bite ya.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Perhaps use linux on desktop + metaframe
( plugin for citrix works great on linux ) for those apps you just *cant* replace...
Re:Good Luck (Score:2, Insightful)
You can even deny the "right" to auditory... and even deny the right of M$ to know how many computers and licences you have...
Unless they come with a court order...
And even then... you can refuse to deliver the data to M$ and demand to deliver it only to the court itself...
Cheers...
P.S.- Of course you can end with all your licenses voided but alas...
Before you switch... (Score:5, Insightful)
Also make a list (you can't plan something like this too much) of all the apps they're using, and what features they're using, and make sure you can provide all of those features before you switch.
And put lots of pictures of Tux around the place. His cute smile will calm everyone's fears.
Cost of retraining? (Score:5, Insightful)
Something to consider. This is probably the biggest reason that OSS has had such a hard time infiltrating the office.
Re:Those Specialized apps will bite ya.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Not sure if this works but... (Score:5, Insightful)
With KDE 3 it's really not that hard to learn the OS, how many Windows users use a CMD shell, the same will be true for the average run of the mill Linux user if the GUI is setup right. I have been using KDE3 for a while now and it is at least as easy if not easier than Windows to do just about anything.
If you allow fairly unrestricted Internet access I would make sure that all of the multimedia apps are working correctly, and that flash is working as well. These are big things for the weenies, they want the bells and whistles that Windows provides, and with a good distro they're all there, but they may need some tweaking to get them running flawlessly.
Just my $0.02, but that is what I would do.
Migrating From Windows on the Desktop (Score:2, Insightful)
I would suggest that you proceed slowly. Linux doesn't have the mature GUI that Windows offers and it takes some getting used to. Most non-technical people are inherently disturbed by change - they fear change. My current employer is considering this. We have organized groups by job function. The admin assistants will be going first since word processing, email, etc. are fairly robust for Linux. I suggest that you look at Ximian.com and their Evolution product, namely for the email client. I also suggest AbiWord as a good "Word" replacement. The whole office suite is relatively simple to replace.
Our developers and IT staff, which make a large part of our company, are having difficulty since we use many of those "specalized applications" that you were referring to. We have had some luck with WINE. You might also want to check out Lindows. VMWare is another option, but that still requires a Windows license - however - it wil allow you to run what just became your legacy apps until you can migrate off them as well.
Not so simple (you forgot the BSA) (Score:5, Insightful)
My suggestion is that if you choose not to go the Microsoft route make a point of either:
1) purging every vestige of microsoft's sofware from your office
2) making sure everything is in pristine order for when the BSA comes along
Re:Good Luck (Score:5, Insightful)
Entice even *one* person to try a new, alternative Office suite (start with an MS-Windows install of TOS Office). Ask for their feedback. Observe their learnning experience and learn from it, yourself. Then take it to the next level.
Teach a half-dozen people -- in your spare time. Grow your "install base". Always return to the original group(s) and make sure they're not feeling abandoned, etc.
Next, introduce *one* new person to a "pretty" desktop (Grome/KDE). Show them all the ease-of-use options first. Then help them understand the details as they walk through the learning curve. Every newbie will be diferent. But every newbie needs encouragement; A reason to stay the course.
By all means, show them the same app. they used on MS-Windows (e.g. TOS Office) running on the new desktop! Help them make "familiarity connections".
Be methodical, plodding, patient and open-minded. You'll succeed far sooner than you ever dreamed! The initial newbies, if you employ them, will help newer newbies. And the love will spread...
Do I sound like I've done this before?
Re:New MAC Server (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Cost of retraining? (Score:3, Insightful)
It Really Depends On What You Do (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Before you switch... (Score:5, Insightful)
Also check the how well specialized applications under wine. Don't just read the ranking in the codewearvers database: actually use it.
Re:Good Luck (Score:1, Insightful)
Heck, changing non-business people is no easy task (Score:2, Insightful)
I tried to get my fiance to use Linux (SuSE 8.0), her response was "I don't want to learn Linux. I want to use Windows, that's what we have at work". Even though 90% of what she does on her computer at home (online banking, documents, web surfing) can be done just as easily on Linux, the exception being playing games (which I already have a dedicated machine for doing just that).
I tried telling her "There's nothing to learn really, you click on the menu, launch the program and use it like you would a Windows computer". Alas, to no avail.
My point being, even if you convince them it's cheaper, more stable, they won't care unless you force it down their throats. It's like medicine or a new dish. Some people like to try new things, others don't.
Not to mention the fact that you have to convince them that productivity won't be hurt. (now the Systems and help desk productivity might be hurt having to run around and say to everyone "it's just like windows". Your biggest problems will come when everyone and their dog wants to install their personal stuff (screensavers, wallpaper, P2P apps, etc...) on their new Linux machines, then get mad when you tell them it won't work.
Re:Do only a partial change... (Score:3, Insightful)
"...Linux simply cannot read some of the MS formats (Access DB, oddities in Excel/Word files), you still need to keep some MS products around"
I really meant:
"...Linux apps capable of reading all of the MS formats (Access DB, oddities in Excel/Word files), do not exist yet, you still need to keep some MS products around."
Simplify the task bar, menus, desktop (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a small change to the way KDE and Gnome look, but I think it's an important change: the typical Gnome taskbar along the bottom is three times as big as Windows users are used to, and is cluttered with a bunch of useless toys. Get rid of everything except the buttons that indicate which programs are running, and of course the button that users think of as the "start" button.
The default menus in most distros are also way too extensive. They tend to have the same thing several times in several places. Pick the dozon or so programs your users generally need and put them in the main "start" menu. Hide the rest in a single "advanced" menu, or even get rid of the menu items altogether.
Put icons for the most important programs right on the desktop: Spreadsheet, Word Processor (not "Text Document" like Open Office says), etc.
By default, don't allow multiple desktops. Users who are advanced enough to understand the concept will know to ask you for it.
Finally, sit and watch users play with the system. Note any place that they frown and get confused. Don't believe self-deprecatory excuses that they just don't know what they're doing and they're sure the system is fine: if they don't know how to do something it's the systems' fault for not being easy enough.
No they can't just audit you but... (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, that's the "NICE" approach. The less than nice approach is that they file suit against you in court. During discovery they get to audit you and can find that lone piece of software that was infringing. Now you have to pay for that license, penalties, court costs, audit costs, damages. Now if it turns out that you are the one organization on earth that has all of your software licensed legitmately, then you can probably recover the costs for your legal defense, but even then you just wasted a lot of time and resources.
OpenOffice (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Cost of retraining? (Score:2, Insightful)
We switched our e-mail system from pure POP3 (using Netscape) to Lotus Notes about a year and a half ago. Despite all the propaganda we've put in place, there are still people who won't use Notes. Most give me some bull about how "it's too hard, I don't know how to get my mail". I'm pretty confident this is just stubborn whining because the default opening screen in Notes has a gigantic bright yellow envelope, labeled "Mail" in large letters, occupying the upper left corner of the screen. Happily, though, the number of whiners is subject to attrition, and is down to the single digits now.
Most other posters have already discussed decent strategies. Just keep on the propaganda, and be patient.
try OsX (Score:1, Insightful)
most windows apps, streaming media, etc. are available on osX, and you still have the freedom to run unix if you want.
I too, await getting flamed...
Re:Not so simple (you forgot the BSA) (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course, none of this applies if you have bootleg software all over the place, but if you are legit company who is slightly out of compliance, fight back. And don't forget to call your attorney too.
Re:Cost of retraining? (Score:3, Insightful)
painful transition for the average secretary, but the tech staff didn't care much.
In my opinion, the people who claim to "know" ms office products actually have an arcane set of incantations and bad practices that get the job done. the retraining you speak of should be rephrased as "learning a whole new set of bad heuristics". I haven't really used any ms product since 1997, but when i glace over my shoulder at my wife's work on word, i want to retch at her one-at-a-time modification of paragraph styles, intendation, and so on. And she is considered a small miracle worker amongst her co-workers.
That aside, my migration path away from windows is to get away from the whole what you see is what you get trap. what you see is all you get. Instead,
make everybody use LaTeX, cold turkey, and hire a LaTeX hack to devise a set of document formats for your company---reports, memos, letters, etc. That's how I switched. First MikTeX, then Emacs to use MikTeX, then ghostview to see the
I've been installing MikTeX around the office here on various windows boxes, and the latest setup is pretty nice, and there are some excellent setup instructions linked from that page. Although Emacs has a learning curve, AucTeX is pretty great, and with Flyspell running in the background, Word users can even get their spelling checked as they type.
Start using standard file formats (Score:4, Insightful)
A lot of it just comes down to file formats. If you can't switch now, then at least you can make it easier to switch later: have your users start saving their stuff to standardized formats instead of closed proprietary lock-in formats. Yes, OpenOffice can read MS Word files, but just about everything can read RTF, and RTF has all the functionality needed, 99% (subjective) of the time.
Once you get out of needing dead-end tools, you'll be in a better position to be able to use whatever you want to.
Start doing it now, even if you don't ever intend to break free of MS. Standard files might even be more compatable with future MS products than today's lock-in formats will be.
Re:Good Luck (Score:3, Insightful)
Only proceed to the next step when the current one is fully completed.
P.S.:
You can also run MS Office with CodeWeaver's CrossOver (also based on Wine), but since you want to cut costs, you probably don't want to run MS Office.
Re:The other way around (Score:1, Insightful)
posts is that many of the complaints about open-source
applied to the state of world in 1997-98. I am
amazed at how quickly linux and BSD went from pretty
impossible to install and use to pretty easy to install
and use.
As a windows refugee I know of what I speak.
-- For many microsoft people the light just will never
turn on about open-source. Unfortunately.
-- let them astroturf. time is running out.
Re:Cost of retraining? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you ignore the issue of retraining because "Linux Windows Managers are an easy transition" you're quite simply dimwitted.
Re:Heck, changing non-business people is no easy t (Score:2, Insightful)
That's not a bug, that's a security feature. And that's how you sell it to management.
Although you can install your own wallpaper, of course; assuming that windows wallpapers still come as essentially giant bitmaps?
Re:New MAC Server (Score:2, Insightful)
If only Macintosh (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Cost of retraining? (Score:3, Insightful)
You could tell the average windows user they have to save everything on the D drive and you'd encounter at least as much panic as you would switching them to a different OS.
Re:Cost of retraining? (Score:2, Insightful)
Don't modify the shortcut, just change it's location. You can tell them it's MS Office 2003!
Seriously, if you change the name of Open Office to Microsoft Office people would have no fears about using it! Office 2000 is different from Office 97, yet no one that I know of had any qualms about upgrading. It's all about perception and fear of the unknown.
Re:Do only a partial change... (Score:2, Insightful)
Most office users end up only using Word. Buy Works which includes Word 2002 for $100. Don't bother with upgrades. Use Office or any replacement for those users who need other components.
You can save 60% of more of the cost at almost no hassle. Don't worry about upgrades, you'll get that when the useful life of the machines are over.
Do the servers first (Score:2, Insightful)
Then after some time, make a cost benefit analysis of your own. Tweak the numbers. Figure in support costs. Codeweaver licences are 50 bucks a seat. Add in anything like unforseen funds for any incidentals, like bringing in a heavy Linux Guru. Don't try to short change a major conversion.
Then show it to your boss. This is the ammo he/she needs to sell it to the top managment.
Good Luck.
Re:The other way around (Score:3, Insightful)
Because of the stability and usability. Windows 2000 and XP appear to be very stable and no one can deny that they are lightyears ahead of anything on linux when it comes to desktop comfort.
This is only your personal preference. I use both KDE and windows daily, and I prefer having the multiple desktops and clean GUI of KDE. Because I know how to use Linux (translate: know what I want to do), I find the KDE interface easier to use. I also find it more aesthetically pleasing - how many Windows boxes have active backgrounds?
I just hate it when I encounter yet another website that doesn't load using Konqueror, mozilla, opera... you fill in the blanks. I just hate it that I can't play movies on my linux machine without five days of intensive configuration battles.The main problem I've found with Linux is that it is a chore to configure, but once you've got it configured correctly, nothing breaks. Contrast this with Windows, where botched application installation can break pieces throughout the entire system. Correcting a bad install in Linux may involve little more than editing a text file; in Windows, you may have to reinstall the OS, reregister with Microsoft, and reinstall every application that you use. I've spent countless hours doing this, and even though I hate vi and editing text files, I have to admit that I prefer the Linux/UNIX method of editing a few lines to the 8+ hour complete system reinstalls I have to do with Windows.
Someone once said there's no such thing as a free lunch. With Linux, it's reliable, and it's free, but if you want to play movies, you may have to spend a substantial amount of time downloading and configuring the application, and then reading the documentation, fixing bugs, and recompiling. With Windows, you pay for a system which basically takes all of these things out of your way, but at great risk; if the software is buggy, or the install fails, it could break the entire system. There is simply no recourse for a botched install - if you're lucky, you might get away with reinstalling only the application(s) affected. If not, you could end up reinstalling the entire OS.
And I haven't even begun to talk about virus/security issues. If you value your data, Linux might be your only option (either that or a constant backup plan...)
When one thinks about the system as a whole, Windows is only suitable for people who want to use the PC as an entertainment device - people who rely on the integrity of their data and the security of their computer systems should not run Windows. Use Windows for games - use Linux for serious computing.
Re:Move away from Windows or just Office? (Score:2, Insightful)
SHORT TERM:
Take Staroffice for Windows; I think they just announced their new pricing scheme and volume licensing for small businesses is like $50 per copy. You get a good, easy to learn program that works on top of an environment your people already know. AND it costs significantly less than Microsoft so the finance guys are happy. Keeping Windows on the machines also avoids the headaches of installing and upkeeping a Linux house, which unless you have someone in house is VERY expensive (consultants aren't cheap). ~$40 per copy of OEM Windows with the PC is a lot better than a "free" OS that requires hundreds or thousands in fees to get going.
LONG TERM:
The advantage to this is that you have also (hopefully) shown everyone that Open Source works. In 3-5 years you can walk into the boss's office with a plan to migrate away from Windows, given the right *nix platform, and there will be very little backtalk about reliability, etc. since they already know Open Source works.
I talk to much. Going from MS Office to Staroffice will save you $250 per PC at least. Try that first before doing anything more complicated.
Re:One way ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Support deal: $100 per seat, maybe $10,000 for a site.
Training: $1000 per user, and it probably won't help if it took them years of hands on to learn Windows. You weren't thinking a $50 CompUSA class, were you?
VMWare: $100 per seat plus the windows license.
Plus the work you lose while the enployees away and when they come back and resist the transition.
Those $200 yearly office upgrades don't look so bad when combined with your $1200 per machine transition costs (plus labor costs and $100 "geeks" working to make Wine work "near perfect").
4 Important Things for Making the Transition (Score:2, Insightful)
over 200 desktop Linux users including creating and maintaining the build
that was used and developing the support infrastructure.
Since Linux offers vastly more options in terms of administration and
management of a large deployment of workstations I think you are clearly
making the right choice, well beyond the mere savings in software cost.
My finding was that there are several key things which make the transition
work: providing users with a stable system with an ergonomic graphical
interface (such as KDE), providing good tools to match those that users
would expect, laying out policy from the top-level down about acceptable
document formats and standards to be used (this is *extremely* important
since one Microsoft user can try to force a whole department to switch to
his standard therefore policy *has* to be set about document and other
formats), and finally spreading the good news about open-source and
conveying to users a sense of enthusiasm that they are participating in an
important revolution.
Finally, I can say it amazed me when I say people who were not particularly technically adept and had never used anything other than Windows working with Linux with complete and total ease.
On the other side there will always be the "picky" user who perceives the switch away from the software they are used to as an imposition. I found that patience and spending extra time with such people could eventually win them over and instill in them the same enthusiasm for open-source that many share.
Re:Why do anything? (Score:2, Insightful)
And people like getting new toys. Espically faster ones. New computers running Linux with a step-up in monitor size is a good start (you are probably saving a lot more money then the cost of 15" to 17" or higher!)
Be sure you migrate your tech. department first, they will put the most stress on the systems.
Re:Good Luck (Score:2, Insightful)
"By switching platforms, we save 50(users)*$1,000.00(licensing/year)= $50,000.00/year in licensing fees and 50 * 30(minutes saved per day per user due to training, but you call it new platform task efficiency)* 250(work days)/60min * $20.00/hour = $125,000.00 in gained productivity. In essence, ladies and gentlemen, we can't afford not to change.
linuxforlife@nerdmaker.com
Re:Cost of retraining? (Score:3, Insightful)
Why not *set up* simplified file tools like that for users? Put the most used programs into the panel so they can be called up instantly?
Why not make a corporate or department-wide custom desktop and give your people that instead of a KDE or Gnome default? Why not use some of that Linux GUI flexibility to give your users something *better* for their needs than Windows?
- Robin
Re:Cost of retraining? (Score:1, Insightful)
Too many geeks, not enough common sense...
People don't NEED this stuff to do a given task, but if you take it away they are less comfortable in their working environment. Unhappy people are unproductive. Keep them happy.
*I* have the solution. (Score:1, Insightful)
Forward migrate ... to MAC OS X.
Sidegrade your Office licenses (yes, MS will let you do this for the same cost as a "normal" upgrade).
Microsoft's Mac version has almost none of the evil of the PC version, and the programs are virtually identical across platforms (except that the Mac version works better and has more features ...).
Frankly, after an extremely short retraining time, your staff and your techs will love you for this.
Mac OS X *is* UNIX, ya know ... sheesh. Next time, give us a hard one.
Re:Good Luck (Score:2, Insightful)
Thats pretty much the best idea yet, IMHO. It seems the biggest problem I have (switching my family to Linux) is people that just don't WANT to learn anything new. I don't know how the new StarOffice licences work, (is it single OS? Are there Windows and Linux installers on the same CD? Can you use the same registration code on both?) but it might be a better idea (if the SO licence does not allow you to install the Linux version after the Windows version is deleted) is to install OpenOffice.org on computers, unless the person specifically needs, say, the database.
If you use Exchange, check out Evolution. I havent tried it yet, but it looks nice. If anyone has used it, can you please say something about how it compares to Outlook?
As far as office programs go, I have found SO/OO.o to be better than MS Office in many situations, but a little slower to start up. If you have older (200 MHz or less) machines, consider upgrading them. On my systems (lowest is pII 350) SO and OO.o take a while to start, but once they are up, they are faster than MS Office. Do NOT install SO 5.2. NO ONE will like it, as it is so integrated into one huge program as to be basically just a memory hog. You will be much happier with OO.o or SO 6.0.
Also, have a few systems with Linux on them for people to try out. Say that it will be the OS you will have on all new computers from that point on, and if anyone wants to try it out in advance, they can. It will be good training, and you will get an idea of users likes/dislikes/preferecnes, and will be able to set it up better for them. Also, some may be ready to switch right now!
Also, consider trying to convince people to use things such as (my)SQL for databases, so that they will be able to access it with many different programs, etc. I wonder if there is a nice program that will make an SQL database (i really dont know much about SQL, just a few basic commands) that will look like an Access database to users. It would be nice for switching people over.