Red Hat Takes Aim at SuSE, Mandrake

gowen writes "The gloves have come off in the competition between commercial linux distributions. The Register is reporting that Red Hat is offering a $10 rebate to people who upgrade to Red Hat 7.3, including those who previously used Mandrake and SuSE. Previous users of Windows are not eligible for a rebate."

Downgrade from Mandrake to RedHat?

[DrXym]

Mandrake comes with so many extra packages that I reckon anyone who moves over to Red Hat will wonder what the hell they were thinking.

The one place RH probably beats Mandrake is in polish, in the UI and the packages but it's still a major sacrifice.

RedHat Installer

[mixbsd]

As someone who tried to upgrade from RH5.2 to RH7, but couldn't because the stupid installer did weird things to my hardware (ie. switch off my monitor) I doubt I'm going to upgrade to any version of Linux soon. SuSE did it to me too, but at least FreeBSD's installer didn't do that. Anyone else had that problem?

Re:Downgrade from Mandrake to RedHat?

[the_2nd_coming]

what the heck does Mandrake offer that RH does not?

I would not trust my Server to a draketool, they are clunky unintigrated programs that have bad interfaces.

if anyone has better total package, it is Suse, though the problems with CD-R setup and ZAxisMapping in the XF86 file are anoying, as are the problems with sax....though I have not tried 8.0, sounds like it still has some bumps in it.

Re:Why not windows???

[erasmus_]

What kind of pressure can MS possibly exert if RH were to extend the rebate to Win OS users as well? MS can influence plenty of partners/customers, such as content providers, OEMs, and schools (not anti-MS necessarily, just saying that they do have a great deal of influence), but what can they do to a Linux company?

IANAL, but I can offer upgrades from anything I want for a product - in fact MS has frequently offered discounts for competitive upgrades. Eg from Notes to Exchange, or WordPerfect Suite to Office.

So I think the real reason for this move is clearly to win over current Linux users, not those of Windows. And as someone pointed out, this will hardly grow the market overall, but perhaps might do something for RH's revenue.

Why I Won't Use RedHat (Even Though It's Good)

[danro]

I won't use Redhat, or for that matter any linux distribution based in the US. It doesn't matter if they are good (and Redhat is) or if they offer me a rebate, or even a free boxed set.

The reason I won't is that I don't trust people like the senator from Disney (Hollings).
I think there is a real chance that oss will be outlawed or at least restricted in nasty ways in the US in the next five years.
Especially if Linux makes a dent in the desktop market. (Microsoft isn't widly known for it's scruples... and it they start losing serious money and marketshare they might be tempted to side with the **AA's.)
And I don't want my distribution to go down in flames because of a bought-and-paid-for law.

So I'll stick to European distributions. (As if my sig didn't give that away already...)
At least until such a time as the US lawmakers get their shit together.

Eligibility

[jaavaaguru]

Previous users of Windows ARE eligible for upgrades, if they also used Mandrake or SUSE. It's not just ANY users of Mandrake and SUSE though - it's only those who have purchased a retail copy of the OS, in a box, with a manual. RedHat might give me $10 back for purchasing RedHAt 7.3 after purchasing Mandrake 8.2, but I'm saving even more money by not buying either. In the UK, you could buy Windows 98 for less than the price of these two OSs and the rebate. Just goes to show it's not easy to please everyone :-)

Re:Mandrake is NOT crap . . .

[dbucher]

Hello !

If RedHat "complies" with hardware, that's because they make the manufacturers pay for it,
which is only commercial and not better than Microsoft. One of the biggest reason to use Linux, contradictory with RedHat, then.

And the real compatibility is the *same* in all distributions, SuSE being even a lot better than Redhat. A friend of me has SuSE and I was surprised by the big list of supported TV cards.

But if you speak about "serious" use, as you seem to say, then the most "serious", professionnal distribution is *Debian*.

Conclusion, there is something for everyone, from begginner (Mandrake, SuSE) to professionnal use (SuSE, Debian) and experts (Debian) and this is good...

BTW to answer prescisely to your assumption I had to try Mandrake (latest version) and it was very good. It was like SuSE was 2-3 years ago "very good but not totally mature", while SuSE is now "mature" (Everything works perfectly)

Too many packages!

[tshoppa]

Mandrake comes with so many extra packages that I reckon anyone who moves over to Red Hat will wonder what the hell they were thinking.

For me, numerous packages is not a selling point. I run Linux because I want precise control over what's running on my machine, whether it be a desktop or a server. I don't want layers upon layers of crud.

Example: You cannot install recent Redhat versions without installing sendmail, because cron needs sendmail, and a redhat install needs cron. But I don't want sendmail. In many cases I don't want cron. If I want sendmail functionality, I'll install something less gargantuan and less cumbersome. And if I want cron functionality, I'll install something substantially cleaner than the heavily-heavily patched Vixie cron that comes from redhat.

For me, the perfect "distro" (it's not even really that) is Linux From Scratch [linuxfromscratch.org]. Complete control over everything!

Re:great news

[sydneyfong]

The reason I am using Linux now is because it is free speech and beer, and there's lots of options to choose from. And most importantly, it doesn't have all those commercial crap cramped into the OS and applications.

Standardizing Linux and making linux a better option is all well and good, but if I had to give up those freedoms I'd rather it not happen.

Re:Downgrade from Mandrake to RedHat?

[justsomebody]

I don't really think that he said that you can't do it old way. I'm doing my config bashing in terminal not with Control panel. I'm a bit new to Mandrake but I like it (Control panels will probably just staj unused, except Software installer, Software installer is the forst one that goes beyond apt-get).

Mandrake does not dismiss terminal editing of configs (or Webmin), Mandrake just offers another one that is friendlier to new user. But still ssh and xterm rules.

Re:Competitive ugrade from Windows makes more sens

[Our Man In Redmond]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. A competitive upgrade from Windows makes a great deal of sense.

You see, right now I think the retail version of RH 7.3 is selling for $60, give or take. So you offer a $10 competitive upgrade for anyone who brings in ANY evidence that they've used Windows. A CD, a case with a sticker, a printed screen shot, doesn't matter.

Sure Red Hat is giving up $10 a box if they do this. But, assuming they can still make money on every box they ship at $50, this gets them a ton of publicity that whatever they pay out in rebates could never buy otherwise.

Magazines would cover it -- and I'm not talking about the usual ZD rags, I'm talking about Time and Newsweek. It's a natural for thirty seconds of coverage in the business section of every local TV news show in America. If whoever does Red Hat's publicity is smart, they'd be making or fielding calls from talk shows and newspaper reporters.

I wouldn't expect they would sell all that many more copies of Red Hat with the Windows competitive rebate, but in the end it doesn't matter. One of the big obstacles to Linux right now is the public's complete lack of awareness that it exists, or if they know about it, it's some high end computer smart guy thing they see on those IBM commercials.

I don't know how much this could help, but I can't see how it could possibly hurt.

Re:Competitive ugrade from Windows makes more sens

[Anonymous Coward]

> Sure Red Hat is giving up $10 a box if they do this. But, assuming they can still make money on every box they ship at $50, this gets them a ton of publicity that whatever they pay out in rebates could never buy otherwise.

Problem is, Linux isn't quite ready to be this kind of drop-in replacement for an average user's Windows desktop, not just yet. In companies, perhaps. That 'ton of publicity' could well turn out to be bad publicity if these upgrades don't go well, and bad publicity in the emerging Linux desktop market is *not* the same as "any publicity is good!" (ie, this isn't Hollywood).

I had the same thought, at first, but decided against it. Maybe in six months or so, but not now. Having Time and Newsweek cover failed Win -> Linux upgrades is not what we need right now.