Running Linux On Your Swimming Pool 174
Forkenhoppen writes: "Ever considered having a computer look after your swimming pool maintenance? Check out this project by Richard J. Kinch. Mr. Kinch uses a Linux box configured with several shell scripts to control the chlorination levels of his pool."
Oh good God! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Oh good God! (Score:1)
Re:Oh good God! (Score:5, Funny)
Hmmm... will you settle for one running slackware here -
http://tbp.berkeley.edu/~harlan/projects/ToiletPa
Re:Oh good God! -- your answer!! (Score:1)
Re:Oh good God! -- your answer!! (Score:1)
Misleading Title!!!!!! (Score:3, Insightful)
Anyway, mine runs NetBSD just fine.
- A.P.
What was that again... (Score:1, Insightful)
Er, i'm sure it wasn't important, otherwise i wouldn't have remembered that much of it.
Re:What was that again... (Score:1)
You mean you can hear them, too?? Do yours keep telling you about register 3 being open for 5 items or less?
Except my faint voice that screams isn't so faint.
What do you use Linux for? (Score:1, Offtopic)
What do you use Linux/*BSD for?
I have a firewall/file/mp3/mail server running Debian Linux (Woody), and a desktop system running Win2K and Debian Linux (dualboot).
Re:What do you use Linux for? (Score:1, Funny)
- how about that?
:)
Not bad but . . . (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Not bad but . . . (Score:1, Insightful)
But anyway to get back on topic, just using a straight chlorine system is primitive at this point though oddly common in the States.
Overkill????? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Overkill????? (Score:2, Funny)
The local rep for one of the major DSP manufacturers uses the eval boards he's given for home automation... his hot tub is currently controlled by a 600 MIP 32-bit DSP unit.
He claims the temperature hasn't changed more than half a degree in the past year.
Re:Overkill????? (Score:1)
Re:Overkill????? (Score:2, Funny)
I cut up ready-made cables and stripped the ends to attach to the protoboard via cable ties; there's no point in making more work than necessary.
You don't say...
-ccm
Re:Overkill????? (Score:3, Insightful)
For example, this guy could extend this to controling those self-propelled pool vacuums to clean the pool (and do the backwash as well.) There are actually pool vacuums that propel themselves and clean the floor bottom by themselves. They climb right up the wall and back down. It is a really neat sight to see. I could imagine using the computer, putting the vacuum in a small compartment with an automatic door that the computer could open and close to let the vacuum out. Also, instead of having the vacuum having to run the vacuum nearly all the time like you would normally do (the vacuum has no AI or anything, it largely just goes back and forth), the computer would know the dimensions of the pool and how it is shaped and so strategize the fastest way to vacuum the bottom.
Also, chlorine is not the only chemical that needs to be put in the pool (but is the main component.) All pools have to worry about algae and the vacuum and chlorine are not enough to handle algae, so a lot of pool owners have a stock of algaecide for that.
I could also imagine there being cameras on the pool connected to the computer so that the computer could determine if there are people in it, the cleanliness of the pool, etc.
There are so many tedious tasks to taking care of a pool that having a system that is automated would be a blessing to many pool owners.
Re:Overkill????? (Score:1)
I approve of using a computer for basically any task. It allows you to create managed services; You can see what's been happening. It's analogous to an employee; You can ask them what's been going on. It's a lot harder to log in a simple mechanical system, though it's been done (using time clock technology, or similar.)
With that said, linux is almost certainly overkill for this project. You could handle every aspect of pool maintenance with a 4.77MHz IBM PC-1 with 64kB of RAM and a pair of 360K floppy drives (one for OS, one for app and logs) running a teensy little program. You would have to develop some custom hardware for the purpose, but you have to do that anyway. I'd opt for PIC chips, as they speak serial without you having to actually do all the work of it.
However, I would not use the PC. I would use something more or less modern, at least a 486, and run something like linux or some flavor of BSD on it. Why? Because it makes development so much easier, and because it allows you to do other things, too. You could later decide to hook up a PC weather station to it, for example. If it had a precipitation gauge your machine might preemptively add chlorine to make up for the dilution, for example.
Also, let's not forget the geek factor. Who among the slashdot readership doesn't have some kind of computer lying around unused? Hell, I've got a ppro180 and a 486 both sitting around; I've thrown away 486s, 386s, et cetera, because no one I knew wanted them and I was not about to go on a lengthy quest for a buyer. Might as well use it.
Yeah, but (Score:2, Redundant)
Or some chemist hacker figures out a way to add "pee" to your pool by modifying what chemicals the program puts out.
Just food for thought. ;)
Re:Yeah, but (Score:3, Funny)
Homer: Ah, there's nothing like rising with the sun for a quiet,
peaceful dip in your very own pool.
[cheers, dives in]
[comes up covered in algae, yells and sputters]
[Lisa walks out] Lisa, the Blob has got me! Don't touch me or
he'll get you too.
Lisa: Dad, you have to put chlorine in the water every day to keep it
clean.
Homer: Chlorine, eh?
[later, all the kids scream and rub their bloodshot eyes]
Ralph: [coming up] Ow, my face is on fire!
dude! (Score:2, Funny)
MS is finished (Score:1, Funny)
This looks like the real deal however. Watch out Microsoft.
Re:MS is finished (Score:1)
(Pun intended)
"Several shell scripts for chlorination".... (Score:1, Redundant)
Re:"Several shell scripts for chlorination".... (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
this is more home automation..... (Score:1)
I'd think there would be more decent home automation tools/devices around.
Unfortunately there isn't that much out there, and what there is mostly identical to what my 55 year old EE neighbor had from the 80's when he played with home automation on his vic 20.
Happily this article has some links and such that provide practical examples....
Still the best example home automation is the Coffee howto
the real sun is probably a better measure (Score:2, Insightful)
And what happens if the server hangs (which is possible if not likely)? The pool might get much more clorination than he hoped for.
Parallel backup safety systems is probably a good idea here - perhaps just a 555 variant (cascaded?) circuit with a long, if not accurate, delay time that shuts down the system if it ever stays on too long.
What theme is he running? (Score:5, Funny)
That is all good (Score:1)
"Mr. Kinch uses a Linux box configured with several shell scripts to control the chlorination levels of his pool.""
Imagine what would happen if there was a big bug
Mvh:
- Knut S.
a Linux zealot's pool party (Score:5, Funny)
"No problem, Ed."
Ed enters the water.
"Ahhh! It burns!"
"That's impossible, Ed. You see, the chlorination levels are controlled by several scripts running under Linux. It's Open Source, so it's stable and it can't help but work."
"For the love of all that's holy, someone help me!"
"You see, with open source any bugs that would have cropped up would have been immediately been fixed by the many independent programmers around the world who check the source code."
"Oh the pain! My skin is being flayed from my body!"
"See the neighbor's kid over there? The one in the Limp Bizkit t-shirt with the baseball cap? He's one of the many open source coders around the world who maintain the system I use to automate my pool. Don't let his age, lack of education, or immaturity fool you; because he's an open source coder he's far superior to any corporate drone with a masters in CS. Now don't you feel better?"
"Oh, the pain! It's like acid!"
"Ed, the chlorine level is precisely monitored, as I've been telling you. Whatever you're feeling is most definitely not the result of chlorine."
Ed finally manages to crawl out of the pool. His skin is an angry red, and his hair has turned white.
"Ohhh...someone...help..."
"Ok, I see how it is, Ed. You're one of those Microsoft supporters, just trying to spread FUD about the open source movement. I think you should leave."
Re:a Linux zealot's pool party (Score:1)
Re:a Linux zealot's pool party (Score:1)
Pretty cool. (Score:3, Interesting)
The headline remined me of what I used to say to the people (several years ago) in the office when I had to re-boot a NetWare server:
"Everybody out of the memory pool!!"
Soko
Re:Pretty cool. (Score:2)
Similar Project (Score:3, Interesting)
I was origionally going to use X10 for the design, but I am going to look closer at his custom designs and possibly use those. I really would like to stay away from X10 because of those damn popup windows that they started. I really dont want to support that sort of company.
I am really glad he did this project, it really gives me some good ground work on which to base my smaller project on.
White History Months are March to January (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:White History Months are March to January (Score:1)
Well, the thing is, your flippant little quote illustrates exactly the quote you're responding to. We've got Miss Native American, Miss Black America, Miss $non-white$-America - but if we (us damn whites) were to have a "Miss White America" or "White American History Month", we'd be branded racist, and culturally insensitive.
The NAACP and its sympathizers have done more to damage 'racial relations' than any other movement. It's the exact attitude that any group is 'special' or different or should be recognized as such that's preventing true harmony among people of differing skin tones and language.
Re:Similar Project (Score:1, Informative)
X10 Ads (a bit off-topic) (Score:2)
Fry's had a demonstration of the XCam, and the picture was so fuzzy as to be virtually unusable. Even the voyueristic possibilities inherent in the X10 ads would be destroyed by the awful quality.
You have been warned.
D
Months (Score:1)
- --
July. As in "July! July about dis, 'n July about dat. All you white people lie, lie, lie!"When is white history month, or chinese history month, et al?
;->
its alive (Score:2, Funny)
What if it died, GO BACTERIA!!! (Score:1)
i know he would still check it once in a while manually but still
And in related news.... (Score:2)
We can finally throw away those damn photocell controllers!
-
Re:And in related news.... (Score:1)
Yes! And a Linux box to control the temperature of your heating: throw away your silly thermostats!/P?
Re:And in related news.... (Score:2)
Ah... but what if there is an eclipse, or even a meteorite blocking the sun... you want real-time hardware intelligence taking over that job.
Water + Electricity (Score:2, Interesting)
Seriously.... from what I saw on this page (before it got
how about those pool robots? (Score:5, Funny)
this would be a proper geek project
Re:how about those pool robots? (Score:1)
This is a pretty good idea. I've got a pool navagator, and it works pretty good, but I have an "L" shaped pool and the thing shys away from going into the shallow end around the corner. It's a pain in the butt to have to keep relocating it to the shallow end.
Point: there is money here. This pool vacuum runs about $400, and from what I've seen, pool owners don't care about spending $400 for something to eliminate the tidium of cleaning the pool. So there is money in this market.
And why stop there? The same technique could be used for lawnmowers, much like this one [emazing.com] but you wouldn't have to bury tracks.
Sounds like an opportunity for some X-titsup.com coders to turn a buck..
Re:how about those pool robots? (Score:1)
That's why submarines use sonar and no radar, as water doesn't allow them microwaves to properly "move around".
Or am I wrong?
Re:how about those pool robots? (Score:1)
Uhm, I forgot about the real issue:
That's why you won't be able to use some 802.11-Access for this, as it's based on electro-magnetic waves, known as microwaves AFAIR.
Re:how about those pool robots? (Score:1)
ZX 80 (Score:1)
Re:ZX 80 (Score:1)
ZX80 probably will need a 16k expansion card, and hand translated machine code, but sure, it can be done.
Re:ZX 80 (Score:1)
Dem pesky neighbours (Score:5, Funny)
Sorry. I just had to.
Re:Dem pesky neighbours (Score:1)
One doubt (Score:1)
Wow, the money I can save! (Score:2)
I'll guess I can get an adequate Linux box for $300. Then I need power to run it, special hardware to handle the chemicals, and of course about $500 worth of my time (at best) to set it all up.
When I'm done, I can get rid of that $5 timed-release dispenser that has kept my chlorine levels stable for years. The chemical costs will remain about the same, of course, but hey, I can get a geekiness award.
As to the timer, if I were going to waste my time to create elaborate software that knows the daylight schedule, why not just wire up a few SCR switches to a photocell? Or better, run the pump at night when evaporation is lower and never have to change the timer settings?
I figure he'll earn his money back in about 2 decades. By which time the PC will have long since rotted.
OK, this kind of project can be fun for its own sake. But let's not pretend it makes economic sense.
And I thought I had too much free time (Score:1)
Interesting slashdot effect (Score:4, Funny)
Swimming poo
Ick.
Geez, I'd Hate to Have His Internet Bill (Score:1)
Linux flushes a toliet, it cleans your Windows, and it scrubs so you don't have to!
Be careful! (Score:1)
Re:Be careful! (Score:1)
This post is troll / undermoderated / offtopic. (Score:1)
Um.... (Score:1, Informative)
Hypochlorous acid is HClO.
2) Breaboards are not ideal for switching loads or controlling things as a permanent solution, probably should make a PCB and solder the components on, as breadboards tend to make crappy connections (similar to a cold solder joint).
3) Probably should use optocouplers and protection diodes on *anything* you build and attach to your computer(s).
4) Real men use languages like perl and c, not wussy shell scripts. jk, at least it's not labview or vb script on winbloze or macs.
My two centidollars.
Not a monitoring system (Score:1)
I don't meant to belittle this effort, but it's important to notice that this system specifically doesn't (yet) monitor chlorine or other chemical levels. That's a shame, since it seems to me like this could be the most powerful aspect: a continuous feedback system that could, say, adjust the chlorine level when it gets too high or low.
It's hard to fault him for that, since it seems like it would be impractical to do actual monitoring, as the article says: The technology required to sense these chemical parameters requires a delicate probe be inserted into the plumbing, with an amplifier and analog-to-digital converter interface to the computer. These probes are rather expensive at about $100/each, require calibration every month or so, and wear out in about a year. Without some less-expensive, improvised alternative, these costs seem to exceed the possible savings in reduced chemical demand or manual dosing.
But the net result here seems to be not much more than an elaborate scheduling and electrical system -- a glorified timer-box that happens to be running Linux, if you will. It does have a few advantages: more complex configuration possiblities, and the capability to determine daylight hours. But I still have to question whether it would ultimately be less costly -- in terms of time as well as money -- to implement this using more mundane hardware.
(I do note that this page has a lot of detail about the chlorination system, which looks to be well written. The liquid chlorine pump setup sounds like an impressive achievement -- but the Linux part is not quite as special as it's made to appear here.)
WTF? (Score:1)
slash-WE-LOVE-LINUX-AND-LAP-ANYTHING-RELATED-TO
Swimming Poo (Score:1)
Swimming Poo
I just had to share that with you people
Shell script and linux (Score:1)
this is great but. . . (Score:1)
hmmm (Score:1)
Market this thing (Score:1)
somebody could probably package this thing a make a decent buck selling these.
keep the instructions on line, but market it for your typical joe.
--john
Note to self (Score:1)
Overkill (Score:4, Interesting)
Most people think a pool with too much chlorine will have a "chlorine" smell and will irritate your eyes. This is a fallacy; pools get that funny smell because the available chlorine has been turned to chloramines. The only way to get rid of the chloramines is to add more chlorine. So ironically, a "chlorine" smell in a pool is a sign of poor maintence and NOT ENOUGH CHLORINE! Your eyes will not be irritated, your skin won't turn red, you won't be harmed by too much chlorine in a pool.
Besides this is attacking the wrong problem. Keeping the proper chlorine levels in a pool with the proper chemistry is simple. Combined with the mechnical device I've already mentioned makes checking the chlorine levels a once-a-week chore for a residential pool. Its the least bothersome part of running a pool.
The tricky part is the rest of the chemistry (particularly total alkalinity and pH). It can be done via automation, but there's no particular need to have a computer do it. Again, its a once-a-week check, and then you add small doses of chemicals at that time if it needs to be balanced. But the balance is critical to everything about the pool and the health of the people in it.
The bottom line is that you have to check it once a week yourself anyway, regardless of the automation system. Spend your time swimming, not inventing the equivalent of an electric dog polisher.
Re:Overkill (Score:1)
Re:Overkill (Score:3, Informative)
The truth is, I keep my pool chlorine levels relatively high. The trick is proper pH balance.
Incidentally, I don't have any experience with Bacquil, but the people who I know that use it, I never like the clarity of the water.
That's not a knock on anything, everybody keeps their pool the way they like it; we've been happy with chlorine (in fact, I had the ozone generator removed because I'm convinced residential ozone generators are useless).
Pool season in only 3 1/2 months. Can't wait.
Best pool I ever swam in... (Score:2)
Now, true - maybe a chlorine pool can be the same way with proper care and attention to everything - I don't know, I have never owned a pool. But I tell you, the cost in savings of chemicals alone for a salt water pool make it seem worth it (basically, you use big bags of salt, and a bit of electricity - cheap).
Re:Best pool I ever swam in... (Score:2)
Least expense... (Score:2)
Still, the advantages of simple salt over pool chemicals still make sense, if only for the simple reason that one is safer (overall - storage, transport, use) than the other (chlorine/acid vs salt)...
Seems a bit pointless (Score:2)
Re:Seems a bit pointless (Score:2)
You must be in the Bay Area...
In the rest of the country (US), this isn't the case. You can buy a house with an outdoor pool for about $250K on average in "normal" areas.
Re:Seems a bit pointless (Score:2)
Wheel re-invention (Score:2, Insightful)
Aquarium maintenance (Score:2)
Re:Aquarium maintenance (Score:2)
/.'d (Score:1)
Mirror of Site.. (Score:1)
Swimming pool control with Linux
Something happened Saturday, February 9, 2002, resulting in this Web site getting hammered with hits and overloading the server. Why is my site
getting 10,000s of hits this morning?
Was there a provocative link posted somewhere?
Please someone email me about this at:
kinch@truetex.com
Richard J. Kinch
Guess the guy's mailbox is gonna get full now, too...hehe
Slashdotted! (Score:1)
Something happened Saturday, February 9, 2002, resulting in this Web site getting hammered with hits and overloading the server. Why is my site getting 10,000s of hits this morning?
Was there a provocative link posted somewhere?
Please someone email me about this at:
address deleted
Richard J. Kinch
aquarium? (Score:2)
He should have just used (Score:1)
that module has saved me hours of icky pool cleaning. Thank you CPAN!
... (Score:1)
The hydroslide could autoswitch to whichever pool had the fewest people in it
Looks like right app for something like a MicroPLC (Score:1)
They can be programmed very easily with ladder-logic programs (basically large chunks of IF a AND b OR c TURN x ON/OFF) and already have built-in timers and counters that make an app like this as easy as pie.
A microPLC like a Mitsubishi Alpha [the-new-alpha.com] with 4 inputs/2 relay outputs is about $85 and $110 for 6 inputs / 4 relay outputs.
But what about.. (Score:2, Funny)
Too bad we cant have a linux box control that
..pcable
pictures (Score:1)
DoD (Score:1)
New iMac? (Score:1)
Oh wait, the iMacs don't have linux it's OSX, and they aren't Athlons and they are pixar lamps not lava lamps... so close!
Re:Wow! (Score:2)
To to the link in my sig and go to the den cam... and turn on the lavalamp.
-Restil
Re:More linux ideas (Score:1)
Re:The pool guy says: (Score:1)
or just a patch? lol