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Linux Business

LindowsOS Marches On 474

Posted by Hemos from the fight-the-man dept.
alphabet26 writes "I just received Lindow's 2001 Wrap-up e-mail, and it looks like they're still forging ahead regardless of the lawsuit Microsoft filed against them. In the update, CEO Michael Robertson included a letter in response addressed to Bill Gates, and also some screenshots of what the new LindowsOS will look like. He predicts the retail version will be available in the early months of 2002."
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LindowsOS Marches On More

LindowsOS Marches On

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  • looks to me like win2k + object desktop.

    • Re:are you sure that's lindows? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Bonker ( 243350 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @01:17PM (#2785989)
      looks to me like win2k + object desktop.

      That, of course, is the ultimate goal.

      If they can truly sell their product as a 'Windows replacement' rather than just a highly tweaked Linux distro, they'll be able to do some business in the Windows Desktop market.

      Of course, there were some pretty glaring problems in the screen shots, such as the missing text on the IE buttons. This would be enough to upset people I've done tech support for:

      "But it's supposed to say 'Mail'! Why does it say 'Mai'?!"

      But, all in all, I've yet to see so clean a Wine screenshot.

      Good luck guys. You're starting with both feet in the gutter, especially with the lawsuit, but I think you might actually have a chance.

    • Indeed. Looks like KDE with a Windows theme. I'd forgotten how ugly Windows is.

      The real test will be how well it runs those Windows apps. My cynical half says there's no way he got significantly better windows emulation than stock Wine or CodeWeavers, but part of me really hopes he's succeeded. We'll find out soon enough I suppose.

    • it could be running from windows
  • Wow, it's Windows with different icons! I'm so impressed. Anyone remember linuxOne [google.com]?

  • As so they should... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jsmyth ( 517568 ) <{jersmyth} {at} {gmail.com}> on Friday January 04, 2002 @01:09PM (#2785918) Homepage
    Innocent until proven guilty?

    They should not cease their work until either they choose (i.e. if the market decides they are complete vapourware after all....), or until they are forced to, if a suitably independent judgement decides they are in fact infringing on an extant trademark.

    Now the prime issues are will they actually get a decent useable product to market, and can they get suitably independent justice. Their adversary is one of the largest patrons of the legal trade after all...

    • Re:As so they should... (Score:2, Informative)

      by posmon ( 516207 )
      microsoft aren't trying to get them to stop their work, just change the name.

      • Why do you think Microsoft is what it is? The facts are that they are admirably intelligent. They've got professional, intelligent lawyers who know when there is a chance of getting a lawsuit through. Lawsuits must also make some sense. Microsoft probably figured out that this was the most probable lawsuit. Lindows is probably - I'll say nothing for sure - not a financially strong company. And it being in the U.S. - the U.S. not being one of the cheapest countries to lose or even fight a lawsuit in - doesnt make it easier for Lindows.

        (If they ever go bankrupt here's a hint: GPL-dump the code.)

    • Re:As so they should... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by garoush ( 111257 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @01:43PM (#2786200) Homepage
      If I haven't missed something, isn't the lawsuit about the use of the name "Lindows" but not the work?!!
    • Innocent until proven guilty?

      Criminal courts are decided by the principle of "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" so you can decide for yourself if this is really innocent until proven guilty.

      Civil courts are decided by a "preponderance of evidence" or for those non-legal types, "the other guy has more convincing evidence than you"

      That's why OJ Simpson was not convicted his criminal case (murder) but he did lose the civil case (wrongful death).

    • a still confused lawyer (Score:3, Insightful)

      by hawk ( 1151 )
      I am a lawyer, but this is not legal advice. If you get your legal advice from slashdot, you probably also hold hot coffee between your thighs and sue when you get burned. Besides, I still can't see the problem.


      I can certainly see how "Lindows" would clearly infringe on a trademark of "Windows." But my recollection, from several years ago, was that microsoft was quite clear that the claimed trademark was for "Microsoft Windows," not "Windows," both because a simple windows trademark would have infringed on others, and because it was a term already in common usage for, uhhh, windowing on a microcomputer screen.


      So I remain baffled as to what trademark is at issue--I see no chance that someone confuses "Lindows" and "Microsoft Windows"--unless someone is claiming that "Windows" is not common usage, which would undermine the trademark anyway . . .


      hawk

      • my recollection, from several years ago, was that microsoft was quite clear that the claimed trademark was for "Microsoft Windows," not "Windows," both because a simple windows trademark would have infringed on others,

        Isn't the standard whether there would be a reasonable degree of market confusion? By your logic here, I could market my operating system as "Nerdsoft Windows(c)" and be in the clear. I think most would agree that it would be confusing to have 20 different operating systems on the store shelf called "Windows".

  • the text of the letter to Bill Gates (Score:4, Informative)

    by donutz ( 195717 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @01:12PM (#2785945) Homepage Journal
    In the event the server is /.'ed, here's what it reads....

    Via Fax and U.S. Mail
    (425) 936-7329

    Mr. Bill Gates
    Chairman, Board of Directors
    Microsoft Corporation
    One Microsoft Way
    Redmond, WA 98052

    Re: Lawsuit Over Our Use of LindowsOS-Proposal for Settlement Discussions

    Dear Mr. Gates:

    I am writing Chairman to Chairman to discuss the lawsuit your company filed against our use of "LindowsOS" for the LINUX based operating system we are advertising and developing.

    I also had the opportunity to read press accounts which state or imply that Microsoft wants to resolve the controversy "voluntarily" and out of court. I would welcome the opportunity to discuss personally a potential informal resolution of this matter. Please call me to discuss this option as soon as possible.

    As I understand your lawsuit, you say purchasers will be confused because of our use of "LindowsOS" and Microsoft's use of "WINDOWS" on its "XP PROFESSIONAL" and "XP HOME" operating systems. The corresponding and quite different logos placed next to each other are set out below for your convenience.

    [image] [image]

    As you can see, the distinct labeling and the differences of our products compel the conclusion that there will be no consumer confusion. We can also create different labeling if necessary or appropriate.

    Lindows.com does not yet sell a product-at this point all we are doing is advertising. As you also are undoubtedly aware, when our operating system is ready for distribution, we plan on selling our LINUX based operating systems over the Internet to very sophisticated and discriminating customers who would not be confused that our product was created or sponsored by Microsoft. In contrast, you are selling about 90% of your operating systems to sophisticated OEM purchasers while about 10% are sold as CDs on store shelves. I can assure you that Lindows.com has not done and will do nothing to cause consumer confusion or trade upon Microsoft's goodwill. All we are trying to do is give consumers a distinct choice.

    Needless to say, the lawsuit came as a complete surprise. For months, we have been very public with regard to our plans. Detailed descriptions of our operating system have been extensively disclosed and written about in advertising and media. Yet we were given no notice whatsoever of your displeasure with our use of the "LindowsOS" mark or slogan until the lawsuit was filed one business day before Christmas, alleging it was a prohibited use of your mark or slogan "Windows."

    We are additionally puzzled because there was never any contact between our companies prior to the lawsuit. I would have thought that a phone call or fax, or even a formal cease and desist letter, would be a more appropriate first step to get to a voluntary resolution. On the other hand, I am glad to read in your court papers and press accounts that you are not trying to stop or prevent our company from launching our LindowsOS product-you just want us to stop using the mark or slogan "LindowsOS". That's good to hear because, like you, we are working hard to innovate and offer consumers a choice of novel and resourceful products.

    I look forward to meeting with you to discuss the outcomes which work for both sides. It is my sincere interest to focus on delivering a unique product and not to get dragged into a lengthy court battle, so there is no need for any lawyers to meet with us.

    Unfortunately, because you filed your complaint one business day before Christmas and have demanded a response in the shortest possible legal time frame (hearing set for January 11, 2002), we do not have much time to discuss this matter. Therefore, I would like to request that you continue the hearing on the preliminary injunction so that we could resolve this issue before we get bogged down in a quagmire of litigation.

    I look forward to speaking with you as soon as possible.
    Very truly yours,

    Michael Robertson
    Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
    Lindows.com, Inc.

    cc: Steve Ballmer, CEO
    • It should be a validation of the power of linux that the letter (so far) survived /.ing. Even the images are still up. Why do people still think they need IIS?

      (of course, they *should* be running IIS under Lindows...)
      • It should be a validation of the power of linux that the letter (so far) survived /.ing. Even the images are still up. Why do people still think they need IIS?

        So I'm guessing now the site *is* slashdotted you'll be withdrawing this linux 'boast' since it is now without foundation... right?
        • Bah, ye of little faith. The site is slow to respond, but it comes up should the viewer posess the patience to let it load.
          • Not anymore. As of 10:45 AM PST, I get the error from Netscape "Unable to connect to server. The server may be down or unreachable." That means that the massive DDOS attack that is slashdot has been successful and either the server melted or was shut down because of it.

            But that's okay. After all, other linux ventures that have been slashdotted have survived, right?
        • In some ways, I spoke too soon and appologize.

          In other ways, however, the server is still up and running. It's just running it's little tail off and dropping papers here and there. It is struggling, but it has so far survived where many processes before it have been kill -7ed.

          That poor, poor lisa.
      • of course, they *should* be running IIS under Lindows...

        People who put a system with IIS on the 'net ought to have their connections yanked. Permanently.

        There is a Win32 port of Apache that they could use, though...

    • we plan on selling our LINUX based operating systems over the Internet to very sophisticated and discriminating customers who would not be confused that our product was created or sponsored by Microsoft.

      [snort] A subtle slam if there ever was one.

      In other words, "you may be content to selling to the less sophisticated and less discriminating mass market."

    • Look, more power to the guy for trying to create this product. I think it would be incredibly valuable if he pulls it off.

      But the freaking name is obviously a rip-off of Windows. There is no question that it would create market confusion. For him to claim otherwise is just nonsense. After all, why call it Lindows if you're not trying to piggyback on Windows?

      Look Robertson, just change the name. This is not rocket science. Or is this just some ploy to get free press?

      • But the freaking name is obviously a rip-off of Windows. There is no question that it would create market confusion. For him to claim otherwise is just nonsense. After all, why call it Lindows if you're not trying to piggyback on Windows?

        It is obvious that the name makes a reference to Microsoft Windows. But that's not a violation of trademark; nor is being "a rip-off" enough to violate a trademark. It's only a violation if the name is likely to confuse anybody, which, clearly, it is not.

        The name is meant to convey that the product is a combination of LINux and wINDOWS, which, indeed, it is (functionality-wise). Just like copyright does not prevent someone from copying a CD, trademark does not prevent someone from basing a name or a logo on another company's name or logo. Instead, copyright prevents someone from *distributing* that copied CD, and trademark prevents someone from choosing a name or logo so similar as to invite *confusion*.

        The fact that people confuse such issues is a result of the fact that people think the rights due to the "owner" of Intellectual "Property" are at all akin to the rights due to the owner of real property, which they are not. In fact, it's too bad that the term "property" isn't trademarked, because it could sue "Intellectual Property" for definition-infringement and win!
    • If LindowsOS is actually a good piece of work (and less expensive!), I propose they use the name "Wind Blows".

      And their logo should be something like this:

      A chubby face is blowing wind, while with a naughty half smile, and a window shatters into pieces.

      That's a connotation for an overall wiping of the Windows desktop.

  • Summary of the Letter (Score:5, Funny)

    by Fatal0E ( 230910 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @01:12PM (#2785946)
    Dear Bill,

    Why didnt you talk to us before you sued? Either way we'll keep doing what we're doing till someone in the court tells us to stop.

    Have a nice day.
  • Is Michael Robertson truly e-mailing bill gates and Ccing Steve Ballmer? It looks like a fricking joke, wouldn't you not e-mail the person suing you and instead deal with the issue in court?

    Also, Lindows screenshots look surprisingly good, apparently it runs IE and MS Word, something no Linux GUI has yet been able to do to my knowledge (Lotus Notes runs on linux), this looks like a big-time scam if you ask me. I think either Mr. Robertson has lost his mind or their marketing department is pulling a 'Daikatana.'

    • "Also, Lindows screenshots look surprisingly good, apparently it runs IE and MS Word, something no Linux GUI has yet been able to do to my knowledge"

      Oftentimes Windows barely manages to run them itself!

    • I hate to sound like a puny/pathetic wimp but...If I read in the paper that Bill Gates and M$ corporation were suing me and also read that he wanted to settle voluntarily out of court. I would be volunteering by ALL available means to stay out of his court (even ifthey are not bought, the playing field could NOT be level). I think the letter sounded like a very professional way of saying what one /.er summarized it as We will keep doing what we are doing until the court tells us to stop.

      Have a nice day

      I wish them well with their... whatever it is that their goals are.

  • hypocrisy in action (Score:2, Interesting)

    by posmon ( 516207 )
    and don't you just love the ms bashing comments in the email on the outlook screenshot. if you're going for the microsoft-without-the-schnide-competitive-streak schtick then you've lost it already.

  • Screenshots of Outlook (Score:3, Funny)

    by mizhi ( 186984 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @01:14PM (#2785967)
    Looking at those screenshots of outlook running...

    Oh joy! Here I was, reading my email in linux and feeling all left out when one of those little email worms hit and my friends using outlook were panicking! Now I'll be able to join in on the fun...

    Assuming that's not just windows with a few GUI mods. :-)

  • Screenshot links... (Score:2, Informative)

    by labratuk ( 204918 )
    Here are direct links to the screenshots for those of us who don't have javascript:


    Screenshot 1 [lindows.com]

    Screenshot 2 [lindows.com]


    God, I'm going to get so many 'foes' doing this. I'm simply doing this because I would have found it very useful.

  • hey (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Zephy ( 539060 )
    can anyone say, KDE? Looks unfinished..

  • i don't get it (Score:2, Insightful)

    by rebug ( 520669 )
    An OS's design influences how its native applications behave. Port a Windows app over to the Mac, and people will bitch like crazy. It just doesn't fit. Similarly, a windows app runninng on a linux box just has a fonky feel to it.

    Windows apps are what makes windows what it is, and vice versa. If you want to run windows apps, run windows or an emulator.

    • Re:i don't get it (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I get it. I have a couple of linux boxen and my beloved mac. And as much as it pains me to say it MS makes the best browser on the market available to mac users. And their office suite is not only the standard, but is clearly the best available (and I am talking about the usablity, not security, flame elsewhere). You don't see bitchin.

  • The Benefits? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by clump ( 60191 )
    I do not see the benefits that this Linux-derived OS can bring, other than a little more publicity to our corner. Scott of Loki said that people who use Linux do so for the benefits Linux brings, and I agree.

    Im not sure that the world needs/wants a better Windows than Windows. I don't need to remind anyone of the success of *all* previous endeavours to accomplish the same feat.
    • Well, using a stable "proven" os will work wonders as the underlying OS. Look at OSX.

      On OS9 and OSX, i've had IE crash. It happens. Heck, i've had other apps crash. Under OSX though, its a LOT nicer about keeping the system seperate from the app being based on Mach and FreeBSD. At least under OSX, I can kill the app and keep running normally. I've had OS9 totally freeze, once in a blue moon.

      So would it not be cool to see something akin to this for windows? Wouldn't it be cool to hit some sorta key combo that restarts the windows gui without killing off every app? Just food for thought, not flaming :)

      You are right, it will bring BIG publicity mind you. Maybe enough, should it succeed, to use the hybrid vs "Windows(TM)"
      • Don't you think it's kinda funny that MS tried this with NT? Granted, it was miles beyond 9x (and it originally came out before 9x, go figure) but, still, dropping out to a console and kill -9 is much more effective than trying to kill a process in NT (Ctrl-Alt-Del, open task manager, select end task, repeat until it works.) Of course, you mentioned restarting the gui without killing off the apps, which unix & linux can do, but obviously Windows cannot. Maybe Lindows will pull through. I would consider it one of the wonders of the world if anybody can make a system that can run windows EXE's and Linux ELF's side-by-side with no problems and no performance hit, which is what Lindows is claiming. More power to them!
    • thats simple:

      Look at their license that they are going to sell it - $99 PER PERSON - meaning if I have a workstation at work, machine at home, and notebook - I can install 3 copies LEGALLY. If I remember correctly, the MS EULA back then would let you install up to two copies AS LONG as only one of them is running. Not sure about it now..

      Besides - it would let sys admins do their admin job way easier - SSH the machine even through a GSM modem and admin it, try that with any windows software.

      And the best part - it will let you run full speed Linux apps and and pretty-fast speed Windows apps (try to compare latest CVS versions of Wine with transgaming contributions of direct 2D speed improvments).

      I wish them luck.
  • That's good to hear because, like you, we are working hard to innovate and offer consumers a choice of novel and resourceful products.

    I hope these guys are just taking MS for a ride and have a nice strategy worked out to waste (m|b)illions of MS$ in court. The above comment certainly got me a pair of wet trousers :-)

  • This is one bad dude! (Score:5, Funny)

    by MicroBerto ( 91055 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @01:18PM (#2785993)
    Lindows.com, Inc. was started by Michael Robertson, founder and former CEO of MP3.com.
    This guy just can't keep himself out of trouble, can he?

  • Linux+Wine=LindowsOS (Score:3, Interesting)

    by msolnik ( 536110 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @01:18PM (#2785996)
    If anything all this is - is some very good Wine work. I very much doubt in the time LindowsOS has been in development they have been able to write a windows compatbiltiy layer or something like it. I would like the commend the Wine people out there they are doing a great job and should keep up the great work. But as for LindowsOS this looks like a ploy to try to get Linux Newbies to switch over because it has some fancy styling and Wine installed. IF they can prove by randomly installing any windows based software that there setup works then I might become a beleaver until then im sticking with my Debian.
    • > this looks like a ploy to try to get Linux Newbies
      > to switch over because it has some fancy styling
      > and Wine installed.

      And this is such a bad thing? Linux could use a bigger user base. And a nice, standard distribution where the rest of the OS is tuned to WINE's operation is attractive to people dependent on Win32 apps.
  • Here is a mirror of the screenshots.

    Screenshot 1 [home.com]

    Screenshot 1 [home.com]
  • Microsoft isn't trying to sue them to stop them from making their product. MS is suing to stop them from using their name "Lindows" which is a blatant rip-off of Windows. In order for MS to protect their IP, they have to defend their property from being diluted. I imagine if Lindows changed their name to Lindoors there wouldn't be a lawsuit. (of course maybe the chocolate company by the name Lindor might sue them :)
    Anyway, what they are doing is perfectly legal. They're trying to make a business of that teeny segment of people that might in the slight chance want to run windows and linux on one platform.

  • Why LindowsOS will inevitably fail... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cscx ( 541332 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @01:21PM (#2786026) Homepage
    It's simple. Here's some food for thought:

    "How much will LindowsOS cost? For $99 users can obtain LindowsOS along with the promise that Lindows.com will work hard to give consumers real value. Your satisfaction, is always assured, since all Lindows.com products come with a money-back, satisfaction guarantee. Creating a compatible, stable, easy-to-use OS isn't an easy job, and Lindows.com is committed to remain in this market for many years to come. This fee will help Lindows.com continue to provide support and future updates to LindowsOS."

    They're charging $99 for this. How ridiculous. OEM versions of Genunie Windows cost about the same... and they are guaranteed to work with _all_ Windows software. This is like saying, "Well, a could get a Genuine Mac built by Apple, or I could get a clone for the same price." That's absurd.

    "At the core of Lindows.com is a new operating system called LindowsOSTM, a modern, affordable, easy-to-use operating system with the ability to run both Windows® and Linux® software."

    Revolutionary new OS called LindowsOS? Really. Kinda looks like a skinned version of KDE running atop Linux to me. Maybe they'll mask the bootup console output with a nice graphic. This is completely ridiculous for two reasons: 1) It costs about the same amount as Windows, which is guaranteed to run all Windows apps. 2) Linux is free. It's used (mostly) by programmers for things that suit their needs. Last time I checked $99 + $0 = $99. So... use Genuine Windows to run Windows apps... and boot into Linux to use Linux apps. If you're a die-hard Linux user, there's WINE anyway (which I think is what this is based on). If you're a die-hard Windows user, boot into Linux when you have to. End of story.

    • They're charging $99 for this. How ridiculous. OEM versions of Genunie Windows cost about the same

      Last time I checked the only Microsoft (retail not OEM) OS you could find for $99 or less was a '98 or ME. W2K still cost us integrators well over $200 a pop (for lots of less than 10).

      That means that I can reduce the price of my integration units by over $100 (or more likely increase my profit by over $100) and I can take advantage of the reliability of the Linux kernel (applications, security, etc) with out some floor manager who thinks he/she is a sysadmin complaining because they can not run their Access reports.

      The Linux movement needs marketing. Lindows seems to be doing that. If they fail maybe they will open a few more peoples eyes to what most of us allready know: There are choices in OS's for everyone.

      If you're a die-hard Linux user, there's WINE anyway (which I think is what this is based on). If you're a die-hard Windows user, boot into Linux when you have to.

      The point is most Windows users will not boot to Linux. LindowsOS _may_ provide Linux inclined IT personnel and integrators a means of breaking Linux out of the server only role.

      I can even imagine me having a conversation with one of my customers. "If we install Lindows it will chop $50 of per box, allow us to maintain the use of your legacy system as we transition to a stable Linux solution. This could lower the TCO by ensuring that no third party (Microsoft) can charge for the dependencies

  • Those are awful big screen shots to be used when trying to get /.ed

    Although... they do run IIS on this LindowsOS [joke]

  • I doubt this is windows in disguise (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Freija Crescent ( 452135 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @01:25PM (#2786064) Homepage Journal
    I agree, there is a credibility issue. The fact that these people claim to be doing in almost no time what has taken wine several years. Lets analyze the situation...

    Case 1) Lindows is actually Windows2000,XP, etc with vmware or the like running linux on demand.

    Case 2) Lindows is actually Windows2000,XP, etc with a custom linux emulator that runs apps on demand, seamlessly.

    Case 3) Lindows is Linux running VMware for a Windows desktop.

    Case 4) Lindows is Linux running CodeWeaver's Wine to launch windows apps on demand.

    Case 5) Lindows is Linux running a new windows emulator or API that we haven't previously heard of.

    Case 6) Lindows is a new OS, that is both windows and linux and runs elf and exe executables natively.

    Case 7) Lindows is a hoax.

    Now the breakdown.

    Cases 1 and 2 are absurd. They would have reason to fear microsoft if they are just renaming and reselling Microsoft's product. However these solutions give the ultimate in Windows software compatibility (Joe Sixpack translation : my games will run really smoothly).

    Case 3 is possible, but apps would run slowly, no OpenGL support, games would be lousy on VMware. Best chance of Software compatibility. Plus they have to license VMWare.. And why not just go with a known good linux distro and do this. The product would offer no market distinction.

    Case 4 is possible. Games would run better than on VMWare with OpenGL and DirectX support. Some apps would be broken though. Once again, this is no different that what could be done with SuSE, debian, mandrake, slackware, etc...

    Case 5 is possible though unlikely. I'm sure there would be some leakage of information if a superior wine had been brewing for the last couple of years.

    Case 6 .. ..... ROFLMAO

    Case 7 is certainly possible. I'll not be the fool and discredit the claims that they are making on their website.

    My guess is that Case 7 is correct, and Case 5 is a close second. Case 1 is possible if the company had the balls and stupidity to repackage and resell a Microsoft product.

    -fc
    .
    • Err... don't forget Case 4a:

      Case 4a) Lindows is Linux running Wine (which doesn't belong to CodeWeaver!) with additional patches and fixes to improve its compatibility.

      As Wine is open source, and, as you say, took several years to get there, why not just fix it up some more? Wine is open source under a BSD-style license, so there's no reason for them not to adapt it (as it's perfectly legal and ethical to use it in a closed-source product)?

      Whatever you think of mp3.com, the person who created it certainly has a reasonable bit of money to throw at something, and it seems to me that this kind of rolls up into the anti-authoritarianness of the mp3.com idea.

      Even if you consider mp3.com lame, they did produ ce something real.

      Getting sued by Microsoft (particularly over something as easily fixable as a trademark violation) is good for them. They get free publicity by being sued, let Microsoft threaten them for a few months, and then settle, getting free publicity again (and perhaps a few reporters who will give them a review when they release a 1.0 version).

    • Re:I doubt this is windows in disguise (Score:5, Insightful)

      by karlm ( 158591 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @02:07PM (#2786392) Homepage
      Case 4) Lindows is Linux running CodeWeaver's Wine to launch windows apps on demand.
      Case 4 is correct. They've taken WINE and improved it a bit without releasing changes back to the community. I'm not even sure WINE will get much recognition out of it. This has caused some people to push for future releases of WINE under the LGPL instead of the current BSD-like liscence.

      WINE had been getting along pretty well. Let's hope MS doesn't return to the old "The Job's not through 'til it doesn't run on OS/2!" days.

    • You forgot case 8: Reece Sellin finished the ground-breaking, cache kernel-based Freedows OS [uiowa.edu] (but uncharacteristically told no one about it), and Lindows is selling a packaged version of that.

      Only marginally more absurd than your cases 1 and 2. :)

  • Scary Address (Score:5, Funny)

    by YeeHaW_Jelte ( 451855 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @01:26PM (#2786070) Homepage
    Mr. Bill Gates
    Chairman, Board of Directors
    Microsoft Corporation
    One Microsoft Way
    Redmond, WA 98052

    Is that line under Microsoft Corporation the address or Microsoft's motto?

  • ahhh, the screen shots (Score:5, Funny)

    by liquidsin ( 398151 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @01:26PM (#2786073) Homepage
    I hit the screenshot link and got "file not found". A blank screen that does nothing? Looks just like Windows ME!!!! Good job guys!!!

    Zing!

  • Might have a point.. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Steevil ( 79504 )
    I know Windows is an absurdly generic name for a windows based operating system and I doubt there will be any confusion, but you have to admit, Lindows would be a bizarre name for an operating system if we weren't so familiar with the Windows OS.

    Watch my karma get mauled for not completely siding with Linux... : )
    • You are right.

      But have you ever seen software that mimics the Office package? I have 10 bucks at walmart and every 'trade show' I've been to.

      No one sues them. That is a case of trying to confuse someone.

      I'm sure the LIN in Lindows gives it away though.
  • The website claims that Lindows will allow the running of both Linux and Windows apps. Why do the screenshots only show Windows ones? There's no demonstration of any sort of interoperability whatsoever.
  • Oops, I forgot that's what makes the industry go round. Back to reality and put idealism back in the toilet.

  • Insert subject here (Score:5, Funny)

    by Legion303 ( 97901 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @01:49PM (#2786245) Homepage
    As you can see, the distinct labeling and the differences of our products compel the conclusion that there will be no consumer confusion.

    Go, Jesse Jackson! Er, wait...

    -Legion

  • Damned Robertson... (Score:2, Flamebait)

    by Deagol ( 323173 )
    I hope this guy looses his shirt!

    I don't care how great a product this is, I hope this Robertson company goes down in flames and he moves on to something else.

    I was around on mp3.com when the first RIAA attacks came. I actually beleived his rhetoric of fighting for the movement.

    Then he sold out.

    He settled. This was bad.

    To make it worse, I just visited mp3.com after about a year of not caring. I was spurned by a thread on /. to get back into listening to indie music. Now, half of the fsck'ing songs on the top 40 are RIAA crap! WTF?!?

    Yeah, he can pursue money in any way he chooses. But please, Robertson, drop the pretense of actually caring about the causes yo trumpet to the media.

    This entire Lindows thing smells of getting VC, giving yourself a huge bonus, then bailing once the courts order you into compliance.

    Piss off.

    • "This entire Lindows thing smells of getting VC"

      Yes it does, its the first thing I thought about when I saw the site and that thought is getting stronger everytime I something from Lindows. I'm sure if this does ever get released that it will cause a lot of trouble in the community. Just a feeling, lets see what happens.


  • Ok, I'm sitting here thinking "Ok, this could be kind of neat. A way to actually challenge Microsoft... someone puts out a Microsoft Clone that runs all Microsoft software for free. We'll all slowly switch because, well, what's the point of paying for something when it's easily available for free." Great, I like things that are free... and this would allow some playing with Linux, which I've never bothered to do before (because everything I've needed for Windows I've gotten for free and didn't care how much more it cost).

    But, ok, here it costs $99 and will only run some Windows applications, isn't open sourced, and most likely vapor.

    Well, uh, what's the point? What does legit Windows cost? Not terribly much more than $99, and you know what... if it comes down to it I'm not paying $99 or $199, for either product, it'll find it's way onto the computer without the cost... so I might as well go for the original as opposed to the rip-off, if I'm already waltzing down that track to begin wtih.

    Too bad, seemed neat.

  • Linus.com? (Score:2, Informative)

    by TheFlu ( 213162 )
    Not sure if this tells us anything or not. Too bad linus.com doesn't have any info.


    Registrant:
    lindows.com (LINDOWS-DOM)
    P.O. Box 620603
    Woodside, CA 94062
    US

    Domain Name: LINDOWS.COM

    Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Billing Contact:
    Center, Network (LU9) noc@LINUS.COM
    linus.com
    P.O. Box 620603
    Woodside, CA 94062
    US
    (650) 555-1212

    Record last updated on 27-Jul-2001.
    Record expires on 27-Jul-2009.
    Record created on 27-Jul-1998.
    Database last updated on 3-Jan-2002 22:19:00 EST.

    Domain servers in listed order:

    DNS1.HOSTPRO.NET 209.196.128.13
    DNS2.HOSTPRO.NET 209.196.128.14

    Registrant:
    Upson, Linus (LINUS13-DOM)
    P.O. Box 620603
    Woodside, CA 94062
    US

    Domain Name: LINUS.COM

    Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Billing Contact:
    Upson, Linus (OISHVRZVKI) noc@linus.com
    Upson,Linus
    P.O. Box 620603
    Woodside, CA 94062
    US
    (650) 759-8402 123 123 1234

    Record last updated on 19-Dec-2001.
    Record expires on 15-May-2009.
    Record created on 14-May-1995.
    Database last updated on 3-Jan-2002 22:19:00 EST.

    Domain servers in listed order:

    NS1.ELECTRICRAIN.COM 64.71.143.226
    NS2.ELECTRICRAIN.COM 63.192.215.189

  • The Point (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cgenman ( 325138 ) on Friday January 04, 2002 @02:02PM (#2786350) Homepage
    I'm amazed at how much venom has spewed forth from this crowd over this little company. For those of you who seem to not get this idea

    ***THE POINT***

    "My office runs outlook and IE, and I need to keep my palm in synch. But I've heard good things about that Linux operating system."

    "Children need to explore the world of computing. While they've convinced me to switch from AOL to Earthlink, I don't think I could live without my copy of outlook."

    "We've spent hundreds of dollars on software already, so while I hate Microsoft I guess I'm stuck using them."

    They're NOT trying to get you to switch to Windows (though I wouldn't mind getting Dreamweaver to work. [ducks]). They're not here to fake screenshots. They're not trying to destroy all that makes Open Source good by commingling it with Windows. They're opening a migration path. If you have one app that you desperately need that only runs under windows, but you prefer or want to experiment with another operating system, you can. Connectix has been doing it for years with the Virtual PC for the Macintosh, and this is basically just a more integrated version of that (and one where Microsoft doesn't recieve unnecessary royalties). This is not going to take over the world, destroy linux or windows, but fill a necessary niche.

    Good luck Lindows team, you have my support.

    -Chris
  • Oh man... did anybody else notice what was in the bottom screenshot posted at lindows.com? Outlook is open to an email with the subject "Microsoft Warns of 'Critical' Security Hole in XP". The body of the email takes up a good chunk of the screenshot.

    Michael Robertson did this with MP3.com too - he subtly taunted the big record labels (and they eventually sued as well). While I wouldn't want to be in his shoes, I'm glad he's doing what he does because somebody needs to be a thorn in the side if the RIAA and Microsoft and he has done it in a very entertaining way.
  • the link provided only brings you to a page with javascript popups of the images, which are slashdotted anyway. here's a direct link to both images: First [lindows.com]
    Second [lindows.com]

    ...looks damn cool, should really help in the migration away from windows for people too comfortable with it to be able to switch.

  • Why Lindows Might Work (Score:4, Insightful)

    by c_monster ( 124327 ) <chris@globalspin.com> on Friday January 04, 2002 @02:28PM (#2786557) Homepage

    Although I haven't seen enough of Lindows to figure out whether they have anything, I certainly think this kind of project is feasible. Most people would say "Why not just use a normal distro and Wine?" Why? One reason: Tivo.

    Tivo takes the base operating system and customizes it to suit one goal: being a PVR. I can barely get my Linux box to play VCDs reliably, and I consider myself a power user. However, Tivo gets to cut away all the cruft and options until they're left with a base system optimized for video recording and playback. The pieces are all solid, so they can make something fairly bulletproof in a short time.

    So, if the stated goal of Lindows is narrow enough, it might work. Dvorak thinks that the goal should be to run Office, and I agree. Most Windows users I know run Office, AOL, and little else. For business applications, they don't even need AOL. (Well, they don't need it anyway, but you know what I mean.)

    A cheap, pre-configured system that runs Office would be a market hit. Other applications could be "unsupported" without alienating many customers. Support a few popular Windows games later and you gain another market as well.

    Like I said, who knows if they actually plan this. It certainly is a possibility, though.

    ~chris

  • A Chinese group called Xteam makes (or used to make? the 'buy' link is broken or I can't read the Chinese error message) some product called Xteam Lindows 3.0 [hoyodo.com]. Check out the cool icon at least.

    Here's [xteamlinux.com.cn] an English description of the software and company:

    Linux for Windows:
    Specially use for installing and running on Microsoft Windows, namely XteamLindows 3.0, offers convenience for those newbies who heard about Linux, curious to know more, and besides, it's a powerful tool for popularizing Linux.

  • Image Mirror (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Image Mirror [linuxfreak.org]
  • The fonts are resized to a larger size in the screenshots, but the gdi objects don't scale with the resized font. XP does this for you. So people who resize their fonts are back into windows 95's GDI.

    The icon's in the Outlook tree are not alphablended, the transparent parts are black. This and other things in the Office gui that isn't rendered correctly, but rendered as if it's office95 on a win95 box.

    I also don't see the point of this OS. Migration some people say. I don't think so: first you have to migrate your, say 1000, desktops from windows to lindows (does it use profiles? policies?), and then, later, from lindows to Linux? Why? If you want linux, why not just migrate from windows to linux? You still have to pay for lindows!

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