Filing a Domain Name Dispute? 227
0backlash0 writes "I work for a not-for-profit that's involved in community media especially radio, television, and increasingly, the internet. We exist by and for the community, which is to say that we're not a large organization. Someone has registered a domain name that we used to own: kdhxfm88.org The name appears to be registered in "bad faith". Because of our size, we can't exactly afford to hire a team of lawyers to take care of this for us. What can we do and how do we do it?"
It's a p0rn site now, with lots of auto-pop-ups (Score:4, Informative)
Your best bet is arbitration, since the domain pretty obviously has nothing to do with their real business.
Coulda used a warning... (Score:5, Informative)
You already have a perfectly good name. (Score:5, Informative)
(I see that he's put a porn pointer at the address . Is that what you're really upset about? That's a different question than the one you asked. If you're a nonprofit and you can't afford a lawyer, find out what `pro bono' means.)
Re:The ? is... (Score:2, Informative)
"Any Offer Below $550.00 USD Will Be Ignored!"
I've run into a similar problem where a domain name I created for a small business expired and someone snarfed it up. At least in my case, the squatt - err, "opportunists" - will consider an offer of $150.
I'm about as out of luck as you, because I screwed up and forgot to re-reg the name when it expired. You can either cough for for a domain resolution, pay them their extorti - err, transfer fee, or sit it out, wait for the name to expire, and try to snarf it back out from under them.
Re:Am I missing something? (Score:3, Informative)
What the hell kinda domain name is that? hard to remember, hard to spell correctly and no sex appeal.
Seems obvious to me KDHX is the radio call sign, they are located on the FM dial at 88 Mhz...
Any other questions ?
Simple Steps. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Am I missing something? (Score:3, Informative)
In any case, knowing the call letters and number for the station means it isn't hard to remember at all.
As far as why they need anything but kdhx.org, that is a mystery they ought to explain. I would suspect the link being a porn site has something to do with it (I'm sure it can't do much for their reputation, being considered "fringe" around town anyway), but that's really a different problem.
It's No longer yours... (Score:1, Informative)
If you no longer own it, then you no longer own it. Period. Whether or not it was registered by the other party in good or bad faith is irrelevant if it's no longer yours.
In other words: The original owners of the domain should have made the payments to keep it registered.
Do your homework (Score:2, Informative)
And don't mind the naysayers -- the UDRP doesn't say jack about whether or not you *used* to own the name, but it spells out in fairly clear terms the grounds upon which a challenge can be brought. In relevant part ("you" and "your" refer to the party you want to file against):
You don't necessarily need a lawyer, though it helps. Maybe you can get a local IP specialist to do it for your group pro bono. It will also be helpful for you to read some of the decisions [icann.org] already made, particularly any that seem to fit the facts of your situation.
Re:"used to own" (Score:5, Informative)
"If you let the domain expire, and someone else registered it, I say you're going to have a hard time *taking it back* from its now-rightful owner."
No, he's not going to have a hard time taking it back, because according to ICANN's UDRP, these other people are acting in bad faith-- they are not the "rightful owner" that you mistakenly assumed. The rules are easy to search, and are here: http://www.icann.org/udrp/udrp-rules-24oct99.htm [icann.org]. But I'll quote it for you, since I'm sure no one will actually go read it.
Describe, in accordance with the Policy, the grounds on which the complaint is made including, in particular,
(1) the manner in which the domain name(s) is/are identical or confusingly similar to a trademark or service mark in which the Complainant has rights; and
(2) why the Respondent (domain-name holder) should be considered as having no rights or legitimate interests in respect of the domain name(s) that is/are the subject of the complaint; and
(3) why the domain name(s) should be considered as having been registered and being used in bad faith
So, seems pretty clear-cut here. Gee, you think the porn site's name isn't confusingly similar? You think they have legitimate interests in the name? You think they somehow weren't registering in bad faith?
As long as I'm apparently the only person who bothered to do some research on this first, including the original submitter, why don't I point out the procedures spelled out in detail here [wipo.int]. Note that the single largest roadblock for a small non-profit is going to be the $1500 fee. Is the domain name worth $1500 to you? If so, read up, and you'll probably get it after a few forms and a money transfer. If not, use one of the gajillion other names available to you that's easier to remember than kzhszdfwelsdafjsdfzlldfm.org or whatever.
Re:The ? is... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Bad faith? (Score:3, Informative)
"And what makes me say that?" you ask. Well, I did a little search on google and came up with this discussion [gigalaw.com] about someone else who had (roughly) the same problem. Now... if you move through the responses, you'll find this response [gigalaw.com] which lists the contact information about the guy who owned this other domain name. Now the name of the company is different, but if we scroll down, we'll see this:
Administrative Contact:
Master, Web admin@segod.com
NameRegister.com
5 Tpagrichnery St.
#33
Yerevan, AM 375010
AM
208.978.3555
208.978.3555
and this:
Domain Auctions
5 Tpagrichnery., # 33
Yerevan, ARMENIA 335010
AM
Same address, same number, different company name... but if you keep going down, you'll find this:
Administrative Contact:
Web Master admin@segod.com
http://x.segod.com
5 Pechatnikova St., #33
Yerevan, 375010
AM
Phone- 208.978.3555
Fax- 208.978.3555
Same phone number, same zip/postal code, same street number & apt number, but different street name. Now, I'm no statistician, but I seem to think that the odds of this happening are very low to be almost non-existent. That, and the area code for Armenia is (374-2) according to a 1998 web page with contact info for a company that is located on Tpagrichnery St. Oh, and the fact that Pechatnikova St. only pulls up matches involving domains being bought after they lapsed.
So, not only does a low-life, porn displaying, domain auctioner have your domain, but he seems to be a low-life, porn displaying, lying domain-auctioner.
Past case (Score:4, Informative)
Now, I was browsing around google, and I came up with this [wipo.int] WIPO doc, dated August 14, 2001.
It deals with a case sort of like the one mentioned here, where the complaintant (sp?) let the domain lapse for some reason, and another company bought it up. Ok, so I can hear you saying "What does this have to do with this case?" Simple, the defendent was Buy This Domain (then using a different street name, but otherwise the address is the same), seems after being given the notice that the domain was going to be disputed, they offered to give it back to the original owner. That's right, they gave it back.
So, although IANAL, I'd say just begin the proper actions against them, and see if they cave again.
Re:Easy! (Score:1, Informative)
See this comment [slashdot.org] and this response [slashdot.org] to it.
The porn is the problem (Score:4, Informative)
I think it's worse than that. He's probably putting up something that is specifically meant to be offensive and annoying, to further encourage KDHX (and other domains he registers) to pay him off. I doubt KDHX really cares about the domain -- they let it expire after all. But it's not that they don't get to use the domain, it's that the domain is offensive and slanders their organization. I think they would easily win any case against this guy -- not just to get back the domain name, but a libel/slander suit against him. If they were actually to try to do this, they would want to contact other people who have also suffered this extortion, to pool resources.
The server appears to just be on DSL (a traceroute stalls on netblock-66.51.198.150.dslextreme.com, which is probably some firewall just in front of his computer). Which makes it seem even less like a real porn site.
DSLExtreme is a DSL provider in California, apparently. From them you may be able to track down who registered the domain, who is presumably also hosting it. From there you can send a cease-and-desist letter directly to the actual owner, using his actual name, and not falsified information in the WHOIS database. Or if you really felt like it you could sue him (and more power to you).
Also, you can probably get DSLExtreme (whoever they are -- they seem like a normal sort of provider) to shut down his access. I somehow doubt the site fits in their terms of service. If nothing else that'll stop him for a while, and it'll annoy him.
This happened to me also (Score:5, Informative)
I decided to let the name expire and then re-register it with a better registrar. I thought it wouldn't be a problem, because it was an obscure name.
Well, this same scumbag who took your old domain now has my old personal site, and is using it for porn ads. Apparently he is using a bot to repeatedly check for newly expiring domains, hoping to capitalize on the traffic from people's old bookmarks/search engine listings. I'm calling this "expire-squatting".
I filed a complaint with the FTC because of this and because he was using hostile "mousetrapping" javascript code to force open new windows whenever you close one. The FTC had previously shut down another one of these jerks [ftc.gov], so I thought it might help.
Well, the FTC sent me back an email saying that they don't investigate individual complaints, but will act if they see a pattern of fraudulent behavior emerge.
So, go report this at the FTC website [ftc.gov], and maybe you can push this over the threshold for FTC action.
You're Both Wrong (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Easy! (Score:2, Informative)
So I'm thinking someone's trying to generate traffic...
Re:It's theirs now (Score:1, Informative)
I would think there's pretty much every hope under the disputes laws. The address is clearly related (probably not trademarked, but certainly well associated) to the radio station. And it has no association to it's current use, at least, not unless the new owners of the site are very clever at coming up with acronyms. The offer to sell it back also demonstrates clearly bad faith.
IANAL, but try to contact the site owners about it, since the address appears dodgy. If it's a fake then you won't have to 'fight' against expensive lawyers in court, you'll probably just have to prove your side of the case. If not then pointing out that they've left themselves wide open for a dispute case might scare them off.
IANAL, but I think unless you can show that you had a claim or that your business will be hurt or whatever (think Coke registering pepsi.biz) then you probably won't be able to get it back.
Offering a porn site at an address which could ONLY obviously be associated to the radio station would demonstrate a clear example of damage to the image of the station (although, presumably few people would believe that it was the station offering that content). This would probably mean a considerable damages payout if the dispute case was won.
You could try the nice guy route, though. Ask them if they would sell it to you (throw in a 50% "finder's fee" for them) and offer to host whatever email accounts hey have for a year while they transition (careful of spamming, though). Probably won't work, but it never hurts to be nice anyway. Sadly, I think you're S.O.L.
Ah, why be nice to them? It's not like this website address is likely their sole business outlet or indeed their main point of contact with most 'customers'. Plus they have no right to it. Ask them if they'll sell it IF paying them looks cheaper than taking it to court (including costs of lawyers etc, but also factoring in possible payouts if you win). Though on first attempt it might be better (if you can contact them at all) to try to get it considerably cheaper/free because chances are THEY won't want it to go to court either.
If it does go to court, you need to prove:
- bad faith intent to profit from the mark. Easy - use of a mark clearly associated with your business and not theirs, to run a commercial site, and offering to sell the domain on. They probably don't own any relevant products with the same identifying code, it's pretty unlikely that it is somebody's name, the offering of their goods and services is irrelevant to the use of that name (and only inititiated after they registered), and the domain name probably isn't used as an identifier on their site. Their use of the site would harm your trademark because of the content they offer, they may have provided misleading registration information, and the mark is extremely distinctive and known.
- mark was distinctive. Like I said, unless they are brilliant at acronyms, this mark would clearly be identified with the radio station and nobody else. Also since you'd already had it registered, it has previously been identified with your station.
- identical or confusingly similar to the mark. Pretty clearly true here, they've basically registered your entire identifying station 'name'.
- mark qualifies for protection under trademark laws. It's presumably been used before to identify the station, is a legally established station identity and frequency, the station name at least would be protected and the addition of the identical FM and frequency values does not distinguish them from you in any way (nor differentiate the mark into referring to any other legitimate product/offering), so probably no problem here either.
A view from the other side... (Score:3, Informative)
I'm currently involved in a domain name dispute, as a guy who has been accused unfairly.
Contrary to what some of the folks here seem to be saying, you do have a legitimate beef. Especially since these guys are clearly intending to sell the domain - hence, the nondescript porn and the "click here to buy this domain" link.
Ask around any lawyer friends you know, and see if they know anyone who does trademark / domain name dispute cases. Then contact that person and ask if they know anyone who would be willing to take such a case on a pro bono basis, or for a "de minimus" fee.
As a final note: brush up on ICANN's Uniform Domain Name Resolution Policy [icann.org]. The policy makes it pretty clear that a domain can be considered registered in bad faith if:
The "click here to buy" link is clear evidence of (i), and the selection of name is a pretty clear evidence of (iv), unless these people are seriously going to make an argument that they just liked the name.
Oh - IANAL, but I know far more about the law now than I ever wanted to.
Your not alone: Another site hit by these guys.. (Score:2, Informative)
they'll probably give it back (Score:2, Informative)
I manage the links for an educational portal, and with around 100,000 links in the database you're going to see a lot of domains get dropped. It seems like every week or so that I get an email from an angry parent or teacher who is outraged that we link to porn sites, when it turns out that we were linking to a perfectly legitimate site that went under and the domain was bought up by porn-mongers.
The strategy is this: buy up a thousand sites that went back on the market for around $12 each, redirect them to your porn sites so you are getting bookmark and search-engine traffic from the old site, and if one out of a hundred ex-webmasters who was willing to give up his domain but is not willing to see it turned into porn actually buys it back for 100x the price of registering then you are breaking even. If someone threatens a lawsuit, give it up and call it a loss.
I really hope more people start challenging crap like this.
Re:This happened to me also (Score:2, Informative)
Pro Bono Publico (Score:2, Informative)
Explain who you are, that you represent a penniless non-profit public interest organization and explain what has happened. If that firm can't help you, ask them to refer you to another firm that might be able to help.
Most states have guidelines for the amount of pro bono (from the Latin, pro bono publico, for the good of the public) work that a lawyer should do each year. Trademark attorneys are no exception to this. This work is done at no cost to help the indigent, charities, and public interest organizations.
If by some bad luck you should happen to contact a firm that isn't interested in helping you, keep looking, you'll find one before long.