Red Hat 7.2 Released 669
Spirit writes "Red Hat has anounced the release of Version 7.2 distribution with Gnome 1.4 and Nautilus, default ext3 fliesystem and according to ZDnet migration from LILO to GRUB"
Updated by HeUnique:There are some issues to note before upgrading: The kernel that comes with the RH 7.2 is heavily patched 2.4.7 and has been tested quite heavily on fully loaded Linux boxes - so the recommendation is to use itIf you're upgrading from the previous Red Hat 7.1 and you're using Ximian GNOME, then you might want to erase all Ximian GNOME RPMS (use the command: rpm -e `rpm -qa | grep -i ximian` --nodeps to erase the RPMS). Red Hat's GNOME RPMS has been more tested then Ximian's one and there is a conflict between them. You cannot use Red-Carpet on Redhat 7.2 as it will fail with the RPM libraries.
These are the most critical notes about Redhat 7.2. You might want to read the README & the Release-notes which appears on the 1st ISO image.
Oh, and if you already installed it - then have some fun with the new un-official RPMS from Enigma's section of FreshRPMS
to forestall the inevitable -- why not reiserfs? (Score:5, Informative)
-- why not reiserfs, xfs, jfs, etc.
First look at the total feature
list of ext3 and compare, in particular the
compatibility (forwards AND backwards) with ext2.
There may or may not be better candidates for
a fs, but there are certainly none better for
a default install.
Redhat explained the choice of ext3 before (Score:3, Informative)
It was also the topic of a previous slashdot post [slashdot.org].
This extract sums it up :
Why do you want to migrate from ext2 to ext3? Four main reasons: availability, data integrity, speed, and easy transition.
[...]
Again, we don't claim that every one of these points are unique to ext3. Most of them are shared by at least one other filesystem. We merely claim that the set of all of them together is true only for ext3.
Re:to forestall the inevitable -- why not reiserfs (Score:3, Informative)
Re:to forestall the inevitable -- why not reiserfs (Score:3, Informative)
Re:to forestall the inevitable -- why not reiserfs (Score:2)
You know, while you're thinking about FS and all, I want to know why ReiserFS debugging was turned on in 7.1 and all the sample kernel configs.
It made reiserfs incredibly slow unless one recompiled the kernel, and did something other than make oldconfig. Was this deliberate to make reiserfs look bad or what?
Re:to forestall the inevitable -- why not reiserfs (Score:3, Informative)
Because our tests have shown the version of ReiserFS in the 7.1 kernel to produce filesystem corruption under some circumstances.
Avoiding that (or at least giving us a chance to debug it) was more important than getting it to full speed.
We haven't seen fs corruption in the 7.2 kernel, so it's turned off now.
First impression (Score:5, Insightful)
I have been playing with the 7.2 betas (roswell) since it came out, and with the 7.2 release for about a week now.
I am very pleased with Redhat 7.2, it has given me very few problems, and it was the first Linux distribution that installed into my laptop without any tweaks.
The main enhancements (as visible by the user):
Grub instead of lilo (but you can still use lilo if you want to ..).
Grub is a great boot loader, similar to the "boot monitor" of real
Unix hardware. Grub understands the file system, so you do not need
to reinstall Grub every time you update your kernel (like you have to
with lilo). Once you are in the grub boot promt, you can boot any OS on
your system (eg. from a floppy)
Mozilla and Nautilus: (I am a gnome user)
Mozilla 0.9.2.1 is a rather old release, but it was the release chosen by Netscape for NS6.1 so it is quite good. Nautilus is 1.0.4 + a lot of patches from RH (Alan Cox ?) to speed things up. Natilus is still somewhat slow, but I don't use file managers so much, so I don't care. I think that you should have at least 128 MB ram to run it, is was slow on one of my test machines with 64MB ram and a sub optimal disk system. Seeing the speed and stability improvements of Mozilla in the last 6 months, I am quite confident that Nutilus will be a great file manager (++) in a short time frame. It is a very good "eye candy", and impresses every Windows user seeing it. If you for one reason or another, don't like Nautilus, use the good old GNU Midnight Commander instead (yes it is on the CD).
Kernel, gcc, ptyhon, etc
The kernel is 2.4.7 + a lot of patches. Since RedHat 7.1 is at kernel 2.4.9-6 already, I believe that we will see an updated kernel soon. The main compiler is RedHats own 2.96 + modifications, and python is at 1.5.2-35. You will find gcc 3.01 and python 2.1.1 on the CD which can be installed separately. RedHat 8.0 will probably use these as default.
Postfix, Apache:
Redhat has dropped support for Postfix (a sendmail replacement), which used to be on the Powertools CD. I really don't know why, but I hope that the next RedHat release will fix this major bug. Apache is the rock solid 1.3.20.
Executive Summary:
RH7.2 is a polished good distribution. Since it is a .2 version, RedHat
is going to support it for a looong time, and it will become the first
choice for many system administrators for serious linux servers (that is,
until 8.2 is released).
Re:First impression (Score:5, Informative)
It's because Powertools was dropped, and everything on Powertools that conflicts with something on a main CD (e.g. you can't install postfix and sendmail on the same system) had to go because at this time, the installer doesn't handle conflicting packages (breaking the "Everything" install isn't nice).
This is likely to get fixed in a future release (no promises though, it's not my decision [I'm all for postfix]).
Those who prefer it can grab the current official postfix package from rhcontrib [bero.org]. I'll open up the 7.2 section there later today.
Since it is a
<obligatory "we don't preannounce releases" rant>
What makes you think the next release will be 8.0?
</rant>
Re:First impression (Score:2)
Because 1) that's been the pattern since 4.0, and 2) I'm sure the next version of RedHat will be based on gcc 3.x, which will break binary compatibility, thus suggesting the use of a new major verion number.
-Karl
postfix/procmail on RHL problem (Score:2)
Re:First impression (Score:4, Funny)
Re:First impression (Score:2)
Ok, I'll ask RMS to convince management to call it Red Hat GNU/Linux XP instead.
Re:First impression (Score:5, Informative)
Nicking arteries (Score:3, Funny)
Red Hat 7.2 isn't quite a knife in the heart of Windows yet. However, we can't help but feel that it will certainly nick a major artery.
I nicked a major artery this morning shaving. Those things hurt pretty badly and bleed profusely.
I hope to see Bill Gates with many little pieces of toilet paper on his cheeks at the XP launch.
Re:Nicking arteries (Score:5, Insightful)
Uh, wait. Without wishing to troll, have you read the list of "things you should know" above? At the retail / desktop/ even OEM level, this is not what people want to hear. They want to hear "Put the CD in the drive. Switch on the machine. Select your language and time zone. Wait."
I think that WinXP has goofed big time with its registration requirements. Now is a great opportunity for GNU/Linux distros to make a big play for the desktop, but they'll gain share only by being idiot proof, because (let's be honest) if we're talking about "knifing the heart" of the Windows market, we're really talking about people who are terrified of anything that comes with a README.
Re:Nicking arteries (Score:3, Funny)
Is that some sort of extention of EMACS written is LISP??
Re:Nicking arteries (Score:2)
Have you read the list yourself? There's nothing there that anyone at "the retail / desktop" level is going to care about. The kernel just works, that comment was to warn /.ers against upgrading the kernel to 2.4.12 or something, if they want assured stability. The Gnome issue only applies to upgrading from 7.1 - how many retail/desktop people do you know who upgrade their own OS from one minor version to another?
I am stoked! (Score:2, Interesting)
Linux just seems to be going from strength to strenght while Micro$oft struggle to persuade their (l)users to upgrade to yet another version.
It just goes to show the power of the Open Source 'bazaar' development model.
I am a bit concerned about this GRUB thing, does it replace LILO ? I've only just got the hang of lilo after all these years. I hope all my enrgy has not gone to waste.
Anyone know if this version will have support for the new higher speed USB that is coming out soon ?
Re:I am stoked! (Score:2)
In the long run, yes.
In 7.2, you have the choice between lilo and grub.
Try grub though, it has many useful features.
I've only just got the hang of lilo after all these years. I hope all my enrgy has not gone to waste.
One of the good things of 7.2/grub is that you don't need to know how to edit its config files - kernels install themselves to the boot menu automatically.
Re:I am stoked! (Score:2)
Re:I am stoked! (Score:2)
Also, if you compiled a test kernel yourself and don't want to clutter the boot menu, you can just tell grub to boot it anyway - it comes with a shell (nothing you need to work with unless you want to).
Re:I am stoked! (Score:2)
Re:I am stoked! (Score:3, Informative)
This is intentional to make sure people calling up support can tell them which kernel they're running.
The correct way to change it is to edit
WTF can't you just use inetd.conf?
inetd was dumped precisely because inetd.conf sucks.
One of big advantages of xinetd is that packages can add themselves to xinetd without having to do ugly sed or perl tricks on a file.
Now you've got this thing called GRUB. Do any of the other distros have it?
Sure. Mandrake does, Debian does. Don't know about the others.
What happens when I decide I want to upgrade to kernel 2.4.12 - does it automagically know how to install itself on this new, poorly named bootloader?
If you install the RPM, yes, GRUB will know about it. If you install from source, you have to edit grub.conf (but you don't need to reinstall GRUB afterwards).
Speaking of which, why is 2.96-RH STILL the default compiler?
But taking industry-standard files and replacing them with something silly
If a standard is broken, it needs to be fixed. (Any website still running on HTML 1.0?)
xinetd is pretty much a standard right now - almost every Linux distribution has it, and it's in FreeBSD's ports collection.
Much the same is happening/has already happened for GRUB.
RH, for some reason, can't be happy with keeping the samba files in
There is no standard whatsoever that asks for putting them straight in
I don't know why the change was made (I don't do samba and I've never used it), but I'd think it's in order to make it more obvious which users need to edit nmbd.conf and which users can simply ignore it (or better yet deinstall the package, but there are quite a number of everything installs out there because people can't figure out which packages they need).
What you RH people don't seem to understand is that some of us still like to edit config files
Most of us understand. I for one don't use GUI config tools (except for testing, or to get a base configuration up to tune by hand later on).
could you _please_ stop mangling the text files they parse in the first place?
One of the things that sets Red Hat Linux apart from some other distributions is, actually, that most of our config tools try to parse existing config files rather than simply dumping any changes made by the user.
if you guys have got the time to troll on
This is a cyclic thing - right now, we have much less work than shortly before the engineering freeze for 7.2. The development of the next version has already started quite some time ago, of course - but a lot of the changes require waiting for other projects to finish, so at this time, we have some spare time. (And besides, it's long after office hours around here, so don't think I'm wasting work time. Granted, since I don't have a life I'd probably be hacking if I weren't reading
Re:I am stoked! (Score:4, Informative)
I know there are some exceptions (mostly due to schedules that had to be kept - we can't always get all wanted features into the first version...).
The non bandaid solution is to standardize on a particular format for config files
This is true - but I don't think you can get every project to follow the same standard.
We actually talked about something like this internally (basically, "provide one standard library for every config stuff, then fork every app to make use of it and ask maintainers to apply the patch"), but dismissed the idea quite quickly because that would definitely be a nonstandard thing giving people legitimate reasons to complain about ("Oh, you're using the Red Hat version of my application? Then I can't help you, I don't know anything about it, and I don't like their config layout"), and more "Red Hat is just like Microsoft, now they're forcing everyone to use their crap rather than compiling from source!" type FUD.
In an ideal world, we'd all be using the same format for config files (how do you represent
Even OSes that try to enforce one config scheme on everything (e.g. M$ registry) end up with applications that create their own config files using something totally different.
Re:I am stoked! (Score:3, Interesting)
It goes like this. (I have no idea how GRUB works, so I'm guessing here). Let's say RH switches over to GRUB completely, and now there's no
But what if, instead of no file existing, a text file (/etc/lilo.conf) existed that explained why its not there, what has replaced it, and how to do everything with the replacement that could be done with its predecessor? This I think would actually be really cool, and it would still be there even if no help documentation was included during the initial install. You could even put some sort of shebang-style string at the beginning of every one of these "evolution" files, so that people who want to get rid of them can issue a simple grep or find command to search and destroy them.
Without Fail... (Score:5, Funny)
I'm switching to FreeBSD. Those guys update MUCH more slowly...
Re:Without Fail... (Score:2, Interesting)
Switch if you want to - but your reasoning doesn't make any sense. RH 7.1 came out in April. That's 6 months ago.
But I wouldn't abandon 7.1 just yet. Let folks mess with 7.2 and find out what they have to say. Besides, RH isn't worth anything until it's supported by Ximian, therefore, 7.1 is the way to go!
Re:Without Fail... (Score:3, Informative)
Thus, you never have to download a new version, but you can always download incremental diffs (daily) that patch the complete source tree (cvsup). I have not reinstalled my FreeBSD system in 5 years time, yet it is 100% clean (all add-ons and optional parts to into
(cd
Good idea, but it won't save you . . . (Score:2)
It's a good idea, but you get continual updates. If you run stable, you can update to cvs daily if you feel the need . . . however, if you're builidng from source (doesn't everyone?
hawk
Re:Without Fail... (Score:3, Informative)
ext3 is just as robust, and doesn't require a fsck at all after a power cycle.
The fsck on a softupdates volume is blazingly fast. To be sure, ext3 is a nice file system, but that doesn't mean all the other ones are crap.
OpenOffice for Linux doesn't run, and native AbiWord in 4.4-release doesn't start. Koffice import filters for
Use the native OpenOffice. I didn't have any problems with AbiWord. And KOffice filters are identical under Linux and FreeBSD.
up2date takes care of all that for in-distro packages.
Yeah, for the in-distro packages. But that ignores the major flaw of RPM: you have to use RPM for everything or you screw up your system. With FreeBSD you can use packages, ports, or compile by hand, and nothing gets out of sync.
Except maybe just doing a half-hour upgrade and getting back to work, rather than compiling all day
Ever heard of multitasking? Compile everything in the background while you work in the foreground. Plus, if you cvsup once a week, you're never so far behind that you need to compile "all day". Or better yet, if you're into precompiled packages, just upgrade the packages!
Nautilus, f.e., doesn't even start in 4.4's GNOME distribution.
I didnt have any problem at all with Nautilus (other than the fact that it's slower than molasses).
On the server side, you can't just install fbsd and use it as a NAT or enable quotas without recompiling the kernel.
Huh? A coworker of mine installed FreeBSD "out of the box" for his server and had it up and running in half an hour. He never had to recompile anything. I don't know much about NAT (except that my coworker got it running without recompiling), but quotas are already in the shipping kernel.
FreeBSD just takes more work.
It does require that you use more than two brain cells, and it does require you to make some sort of effort to get it installed and administered. But since when has that been a drawback in the Unix world?
Re:Without Fail... (Score:3, Insightful)
This is an advantage. Some people don't want a completely redesigned OS every six months. Some just want the stable OS they've always been using plus bug fixes, new hardware support, etc. You won't see anything significantly different until 5.0. And after that you won't see anything significantly different until 6.0.
This is a Good Thing(tm).
been in stores for a while (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:been in stores for a while (Score:2)
>theft-control case. Which I took to be an excellent sign... when
>someone wants your operating system bad enough to steal it, you must
>be doing something right.
Meanwhile, out in front of the store, was the kid trying to give away kittens. "And if you take the kitten, I'll thrown in a free Windows XP. OK, never mind the kitten, but would you at least take the XP? *please*?"
hawk
Red Hat 7.2 vs. Mandrake 8.1... (Score:2)
Re:Red Hat 7.2 vs. Mandrake 8.1... (Score:2, Offtopic)
I almost wish I hadn't. Supermount doesn't seem to want to work anymore, no matter what I try, and X on my work machine locks up about twice a week.
If I had the time, I'd probably go back to 8.0, at least at work, but I'm a little too busy for a reinstall now (the upgrade was performed at a weekend, when I was in to make up for missed time (damn that guilt...))
Cheers,
Tim
Re:Red Hat 7.2 vs. Mandrake 8.1... (Score:2)
Of course I can mount
Cheers,
Tim
How about commercial package release? (Score:2)
I still haven't seen the commercial package release of Linux Mandrake 7.1.
Think mirrors! (Score:5, Informative)
http://freshrpms.net/misc/enigma.html [freshrpms.net]
Also, don't forget to go get all the "missing" goodies (xine, lame, nessus...) from http://enigma.freshrpms.net/ [freshrpms.net]
Happy download! :-)
Matthias
What about ReiserFS? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:What about ReiserFS? (Score:3, Informative)
Red Hat is not synonymous with Linux. (Score:3, Insightful)
But it may just as well be.
I've been using RH since 2.0.27 on a 386SX/12, and like many of you, have stuck with Red Hat in one form or another for many years. However, recently Red Hat's distrib has begun to suffer, largely because of oddball decisions like the ones we're seeing in 7.2.
LILO has been replaced with GRUB. Why? So we can confuse things even more for the people who we're trying to attract to the platform? If it aint broke, don't fix it, gang. You have an installed user base that knows the ins and outs of LILO, and has for years..Now that knowledge has been deprecated. Books will have to be rewritten, headaches arise, the whole nine yards will unfold as people have to sit down and digest yet another piece of Linux minutia..Why bother. LILO works. Sometimes switching one working part with another for only minimal gains is NOT a good idea..the situation doesn't mandate such changes.
Cheers, and yes, PROPAGANDA is still running,
LILO is not synonymous with GRUB (Score:2, Informative)
Besides, RedHat lets you choose at installation, so you can <sarcasm>"leverage" the mountain of knowledge you have about LILO</sarcasm>. Like there's so much to know...
Re:Red Hat is not synonymous with Linux. (Score:5, Interesting)
Such as?
LILO has been replaced with GRUB. Why?
Because it has a load of advantages we consider more important than staying with what we've shipped forever.
Sometimes switching one working part with another for only minimal gains is NOT a good idea
You are right about this - and since lilo->grub is not minimal, it doesn't apply to this particular thing.
don't understand the need for constant upgrading (Score:2, Interesting)
concern me.
I don't particularly see any need to upgrade
to 7.0, 7.1 or 7.2 for that matter.
What's the big deal?
Re:don't understand the need for constant upgradin (Score:2)
That's a good question. I still run one machine at home with Win95 first edition plus a shitload of patches (all backed to CD). Friends scoff, but when I ask them what the functional difference is between my install and WinME (aka Win95 5th Edition), they don't generally have a convincing answer.
I have to agree with the "what's the big deal?" sentiment. Is there some reason why we turn every release of every open source OS distro into a big event (or at least a big discussion)?
Honest question: who is this announcement aimed at? The people who are likely to upgrade already know. Those who aren't likely to upgrade don't really care. Casual/non nerd buyers will grab whatever the latest version is off of a shelf.
I can't in all honesty see why this is any more newsworthy than any of the Win95 evolutions. Instead of modding me as a troll, can you consider explaining to my poor addled brain why this announcement will surprise or excite anyone?
Re:don't understand the need for constant upgradin (Score:3, Informative)
I don't particularly see any need to upgrade to 7.0, 7.1 or 7.2 for that matter.
What's the big deal?
I've used every version of RedHat since 3.3, and several versions of Mandrake over the last 6 years. That's a lot of upgrading, particularly since I have several servers and workstations running Linux. My firewall/proxy/router is still running a heavily upgraded version of RH 6.1, and my mail server is running a butchered version of RH 6.0. My internal web server and all of the workstations are running RH 7.1, and I'll be upgrading some of those to RH 7.2 in the near future, as it stabilizes.
Here's a short list of my reasons to upgrade to RH 7.X:
Ultimately with Red Hat, they've done a good job of supporting older X.2 releases, but support doesn't mean adding new features. If you want the new features, you'll want to upgrade. If you don't want/need them, then stick with what works. At least Red Hat (and most Linux distros) give you that choice -- as opposed to certain eXtra Proprietary systems.
Red Hat 7.2 vs. Mandrake 8.1 vs. SuSE 7.3 (Score:2)
Personally I prefer SuSE and can't wait for 7.3 however I must say that Redhat 7.2 looks promesing too, however at a first glance, IMHO SuSE looks better for starting linux users.
How to download 7.2.... (Score:2, Informative)
efab549656a1a85ab8fa39eb873eff0e enigma-SRPMS-disc1.iso
70703897af7703b40e41777a3aa186c3 enigma-SRPMS-disc2.iso
cf7bce0c1cdbfedfae29e60aef202f6f enigma-i386-disc1.iso
fd705b3e5d0e37a828db35d21195a9f6 enigma-i386-disc2.iso
2. Go to any available mirror that isn't slashdotted...I found:
ftp://linux.nssl.noaa.gov
Mirror in Europe (Score:2, Informative)
ext3 migration is seamless (Score:3, Informative)
I accidentally nobbled the ext3 module (by upgrading the kernel and omitting the initrd that normally loads the ext3 module from linuxrc). Red Hat seamlessly mounted as ext2 - no loss of data (but obviously no journalling). Puttng the initrd back brought me back into the ext3 fold, again seamlessly. It was completely painless -I was really impressed. This experience is with 7.1.93 - I have not yet tried 7.2
In fact, I might not ever try 7.2 because of the really annoying ppp-watcher in 7.1. I had an ISP problem where the chat script would fail to authenticate, and the ppp-watcher just dialled again and again and again... Really annoying, and hard to change. I'm sure I'd miss RH if I stopped using it because I've used it since RH 2.1. For the moment I'm running Red Hat 7.1.93 at home and Debian on my laptop.
Custom kernel (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Custom kernel (Score:2, Informative)
7.2 ALREADY?! (Score:5, Funny)
ipsec, freeS/WAN and RedHat (Score:4, Interesting)
Is there an "official" way to upgrade RH 7.2 to a kernel version with ipsec support (i.e. frees/wan) for European folks? The absence of this feature in RH becomes a more and more serious concern for my company.
Of course we know how to patch and compile a kernel. Maintenance must still be easy, though. Installing a custom kernel on several customer servers also means that we cannot use Redhat's update kernel RPMs but must maintain our own ones, so kernel (and possibly other packages) updates get complicated. It will not possible to respond on security issues as quickly as when using RH kernel RPMs.
It would be a great benefit for European customers if RedHat could at least draw the "official" procedure how to make this RH Linux version ipsec capable and then maintain this procedure as new kernel RPM packages or RedHat Linux versions appear.
Re:ipsec, freeS/WAN and RedHat (Score:4, Informative)
I don't think the export restrictions you're referring to are still in place.
We're currently shipping cipe, which provides pretty much the same functionality.
There have been some reasons for choosing cipe over FreeS/WAN. I don't remember the details, but I think it was related to not supporting non-x86 arches.
The usability of Linux (is pretty good by now) (Score:5, Insightful)
Let me explain: when people talk about usabuility, they typically mean "it is (or it isn't) like on Windows" and maybe "it is (or it isn't) like on a Mac". This is not what I would call usability, but rather something like "environment inertia"; people don't like change even if it is for the (long term) better.
After seeing my mom (aged 60+, bought her first computer 1 year ago, never used a computer before that) struggle with Windows when needing to do rather simple/basic things, I've grown convinced that a (well set up) KDE desktop is just as usable as Windows and that the so often touted Windows usability is nothing more than a myth. Windows is usable once you're used to it; otherwise is't as difficult (or easy) than any other decent windowing system (yes, KDE certainly fits this description, GNOME probably does; this is *not* meant as flamebait but just an abservation of the way these Desktops are configured in the newest Mandrake 8.1 release; your milage may vary). These don't work quite the same way as Windows, but it basically do the same things, provides you with menus, with end-user friendly software (KOffice is pretty cool & looks nice, KMail is quite user friendly, etc) and nice GUI configuration tools. If you have a chance sometime, watch someone who's never used a computer try to figure out Windows; it's very instructive to see that Windows itself is not more or less intuitive than any other windowing
system; once you've mastered the concepts and abstractions, it becomes easy. The so called usability advantange of Windows is mostly imprinting, inertia and FUD; the functional differences are starting to disappear or become neglegible.
The biggest obstacle at this point is device/drive support and the need to recompile kernels to get some stuff to work. Usability is (generally speaking) just fine, provided you're working on a well-setup & installed box
Your mom needs RH7.2 (Score:2, Interesting)
RH 7.2 solves a real issue - sometimes (once a month) her harddisk stops working. A hardware error. ext3 makes it possible to start up again without runnin fsck manually. ext3 is the biggest stability improvement for the average end-user.
Lars.
Re:Your mom needs RH7.2 (Score:3, Insightful)
RH 7.2 solves a real issue - sometimes (once a month) her harddisk stops working. A hardware error.
While it's great that journalling filesystems let you get started up more quickly, this doesn't solve the problem*. If the hard disk does not consistently spin up, you can be assured that some day it will never spin up again. Get the data off it before this happens.
Hard disks are cheap. I just bought a Seagate ATA IV ST380021A yesterday. It's 80GB with transfer rates from 24 to 41 MBytes/sec and unbelievably quiet: 2.1 bels idle (below a whisper). It only cost me $200.
* - "issue" is a pet peeve of mine. A problem is something that needs to be solved. An issue is a point of discussion. While this has become a point of discussion, it was first a problem and hasn't ceased to be. Don't be like Microsoft. Admit there are such things as problems and bugs.
Re:The usability of Linux (is pretty good by now) (Score:2)
I started playing around with Linux back around 1996 with Slackware. It was great to play around with as far as being an alternate OS with a powerful command-line interface (after MS-DOS, I needed more than what Windows 95 offered). After a while, though, I determined that all my GUI applications for Win95 were irreplacable and there was nothing in Linux that could convince me to use it as a primary bootup.
Ever since then, I would download a new distribution each year or two, which usually was RedHet (and now I play with Mandrake). GUI usability seems to jump in quick strides; each distribution impresses me more and more. More applications suited to my needs, more neat-looking window managers, and better hardware support (this is a major plus!).
I've just downloaded and installed Mandrake 8.1. I had some problems with 8.0 (the KDE and Gnome default setups weren't flawless and would crash here and there). Even within a 0.1 version change, I see things are more tightly and logically integrated. Office applications are becoming professional grade. Networking is a cinch. And hardware management is awesome; I'm particularly impressed with HardDrake's automatic hardware detection. I swapped graphics cards (which, in the past, meant having to reconfigure X and editing files, etc.) and it was all automatic.
Pretty soon, I believe we'll start seeing people deciding that Windows isn't exactly worth the $99+, especially with the new activation "feature".
Hooray for Linux.
Mandrake (Score:2)
Comments on ISO files and cheap cd sets (Score:4, Insightful)
Never mind that anyway - don't download it, buy it from Redhat instead. But does anyone else wish RH would sell cheap disk sets like mdk do? I bet it would only improve their profits. They would be bought mostly by ppl who currently download the isos (like me), not the ppl who currently buy the boxed sets ('cos they all want manuals etc otherwise they would download also)
MartinG.
Re:Comments on ISO files and cheap cd sets (Score:2)
While, I like the idea behind Debian's system, I find that on non Linux boxes, it's difficult ot do with some reliability. Debian has some sort of system that builds the iso for you and can download multiple parts of it from different mirrors. That way you don't tie up a server connection for any longer then a few minutes, and if a server comes up busy, it can go to the next server to find the file.....that's a simplistic way of explaining it....I am not sure exactly how it works because I have never been able to get it to work on any of my boxes. It's real elegant, but it's a pain in the butt when you just want to grab an iso. Although with Debian, you just need an install floppy that supports your machine and you can apt the rest. But sometimes you want the whole CD so you can install it on a non networked box (maybe a car MP3 Player project or something), so the boot floppy deal ain't cool for everything.
Re:Comments on ISO files and cheap cd sets (Score:3, Interesting)
This is a Europe-only product.
It'll be hard to find it in any other place.
Try out RedHat 7.2 (Score:5, Informative)
RedHat 7.2 kernel and glibc updates. (Score:4, Informative)
kernel-2.4.9-7.i386.rpm
kernel-doc-2.4.9-7.i386.rpm
kernel-source-2.4.9-7.i386.rpm
kernel-BOOT-2.4.9-7.i386.rpm
nscd-2.2.4-19.i386.rpm
glibc-common-2.2.4-19.i386.rpm
glibc-devel-2.2.4-19.i386.rpm
glibc-profile-2.2.4-19.i386.rpm
glibc-2.2.4-19.i386.rpm
openssh-askpass-gnome-2.9p2-9.i386.rpm
openssh-2.9p2-9.i386.rpm
openssh-askpass-2.9p2-9.i386.rpm
openssh-clients-2.9p2-9.i386.rpm
openssh-server-2.9p2-9.i386.rpm
squid-2.4.STABLE1-6.i386.rpm
mew-1.94.2-12.i386.rpm
util-linux-2.11f-12.i386.rpm
Ximian GNOME for Red Hat Linux 7.2 is out! (Score:5, Informative)
The recommended procedure for upgrading to Red Hat Linux 7.2 with Ximian GNOME is to perform the Red Hat upgrade, then immediately reinstall Ximian GNOME.
lynx -source http://go-gnome.com/ |sh
The mirrors will pick it up shortly.
Share and enjoy,
The Ximian release team
Please mod parent up and a note to Hemos and co. (Score:5, Informative)
Luis Villa [Ximian Bugmaster, who doesn't want to have to deal with 'Hemos broke my system' bugs all day]
Re:Ximian GNOME for Red Hat Linux 7.2 is out! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:GRUB ? (Score:2)
I was surprised to see that, too, as the GNU Grub page [gnu.org] says, "GNU GRUB is not released publicly yet." On the other hand, doesn't Mandrake use GRUB?
Re:GRUB ? (Score:5, Informative)
From the GNU GRUB Faq:
1. How does GNU GRUB differ from Erich's original GRUB?
GNU GRUB is the successor of Erich's great GRUB. He couldn't work on GRUB because of some other tasks, so the current maintainer Gordon Matzigkeit took over the maintainership, and opened the development in order for everybody to participate it.
Technically speaking, GNU GRUB has many features that are not seen in the original GRUB. For example, GNU GRUB can be installed on UNIX-like operating system (i.e. GNU/Linux) via the grub shell
Re:GRUB ? (Score:2)
GNU GRUB ranting involving RMS
As soon as I heard that GRUB was a GNU project, I assumed it was just to help RMS' ego. I can just imagine RMS winding up the pitch: "The Linux kernel can't even boot without the help of GNU Free Software to pave the way! That's one more reason to call it GNU/Linux."
And [OT] while we're on the topic of massaging or dismissing RMS' ego, can Red Hat please please please stop publishing useless man pages that are just placeholder advertisements for info pages? I just don't see the point. A simple perl script should be sufficient for backporting info format into man format. If you like info, fine, it has a couple more features for indexing. But not everyone likes having to use info when man works just as well.
I don't care one way or another, I will call a whole distribution Linux if I want. I bought "Red Hat Linux 7.2" not Linux, not GNU/Linux, not GNU/Linux/RPM/Perl/Apache/KDE/Mozilla/StarOffice/L oki.
Re:GRUB ? (Score:5, Troll)
Re:GRUB ? (Score:3, Informative)
Go, GRUB, go!
Re:LILO vs. GRUB (Score:2, Informative)
Re:What a crapfest (Score:5, Informative)
FAT? Hardly! ext3 uses is built on extension hooks designed into ext2, allowing you to mount ext3 partitions with an ext2-only kernel (of course no journalling in that case). Also, it takes a few seconds to "convert" ext2 to ext3, can't get easier than that! :-)
Personally I find it impressive that the foresight in the ext2 design allowed for ext3 to evolve the way it did with the backwords compatibility
And hey, it just works. Performance is like ext2, except you never have to fsck anymore when the machine doesn't shut down properly. And your ext2 bootfloppies still work, you don't have to reformat your partitions first, and did I mention it just works? :-)
So why not? ReiserFS would be more suited for news spool and squid cache partitions, but if you just want your same old system except for the fsck's, ext3 is the way to go.
Re:What a crapfest (Score:2, Insightful)
By the way, folks, Nautilus is dead. The fact that they went out of business so quickly ought to tell you something about their product.
Was Eazel trying to sell people copies of Nautilus? I dont think so. They were trying to sell services offered through nautilus, which nobody wanted. They went under because they didn't have a revenue stream, not because Nautilus sucked. Nautilus is not dead, the release of 1.0.5 in the last week shows that, the work has been taken up by the community, and Nautilus seems to be benefitting from that.
Re:What a crapfest (Score:2)
>Who writes a GUI in C, for crying out loud[...]
>I really like how everything in KDE is integrated
>SuSE [...] prefer over Redhat
Expect to be flamed.
Anyway... Choosing a more conservative filesystem as default is not necessary evil. Especially if your targeting a lots of different users.
About writing in C... Well, take the language that suits you most. Personally, I'd rather write larger programs in C++, too (Smaller ones I prefer C). But I don't think it you HAVE to write them in C++, especially if your more proficient in C.
About the integration in KDE, I like it, too.
At least on my desktop. But surely not on my notebook, there I prefer Blackbox or a CLI.
Expect to be proposed(threatened?) to use Windows as integration should be its philosophy in contrast to Unix.
As if using small programs stem from philosophy and not 8k total memory. (Real men program by rewireing, only quiche-eaters need IDEs
To show my point, I'll quickly state that I think the difference between Unix and Windows is the possibilty to use different tools including lightweight programs or Integrated Enviroments matching your taste and/or technical outfit.
Re:What a crapfest (Score:2, Insightful)
Just cos you don't like Red Hat's choices, doesn't make them bad, remember, Free Software is about choices...
a journaling system tacked on to the old ext2 system
Yes, it is, but that sort of makes it easier to migrate to (and revert from!). I personally use Reiser, but I recognise the benefit of ext3.
any rational reason for choosing GNOME over KDE2
Some people prefer it! I am one of them (and there are a lot of us...) And when RH fund GNOME development, it stands to reason that they'll use it as the default desktop. SuSE fund KDE and lo and behold it's SuSE's default. (and other distros choose one way or the other) You don't have to use the default, make your own choice - you choose KDE2, fine, it's a great desktop just don't moan about GNOME, ok?)
Nautilus is dead
No, Eazel is dead, and Nautilus has gone through at least two revisions since then, and is being ported to GNOME2 - that's the great thing about Free Software - it outlives any company if it's good, and Nautilus is goooood! (I don't use it - not enough memory, but hey, it's all about choice innit?)
type in a URL...fire up the appropriate program
GNOME does this too oddly, oh, and it does have a great browser in Galeon.
So, just because you don't use RH doesn't make it any less news. This is a significant revision (remember, noone uses a RedHat version line until x.2 if they have any sense
What an uninformed troller! (Score:3, Insightful)
-Last time that I checked (5 minutes ago) you can choose between Gnome, KDE... as your default desktop environment/graphical login/workstation installation. Even if you choose to select as default graphical environment GNOME, you can select KDE for your use and set it as your default one. Nuff said.
-Who cares about a programming language? If you do not like it, port it to C++. Show me the code.
-You obiously have no idea of Linux. You can run Konqueror form within GNOME!.
-Nautilus is pretty cool. It has a whole bunch of interesting features, like the "tabbed" way of displaying multiple webpages (instead of having multiple separated windows). This is A Good Thing (TM). If you don't like it, don't use it. Linux is about choice.
-RedHat 7.2 comes with KDE 2.2.1.
BTW, you sounded like a Troll.
Enjoy the best RedHat!
Re:Name... (Score:3, Informative)
Stress test time for the ftp servers. (Score:5, Informative)
ftp://zeniiib.linux.theplanet.co.uk/pub/distrib
nice and fast (its the new linux.org.uk test box)
Alan
Re:Stress test time for the ftp servers. (Score:2)
ftp://zeniiib.linux.theplanet.co.uk/pub/distrib
Without the space: like this [theplanet.co.uk]
TWW
Re:Is RH including proprietary sw these days? (Score:5, Informative)
The only nonfree stuff on the RH distro should be netscape, and we recommend mozilla 8)
Netscape is proprietary (Score:2)
The feature list [redhat.com] includes Netscape 4.78, which is proprietary (although free of charge). I can't find a link, but I read an article about Red Hat reluctantly leaving in Netscape, as they felt that Mozilla is not ready.
Re:Is RH including proprietary sw these days? (Score:3, Interesting)
With the sole exception of Netscape (which will disappear later), it's 100% OS.
And Netscape will disappear with the next release - we're already including Konqueror [konqueror.org], Mozilla [mozilla.org] and Galeon [sf.net] as free (and better) alternatives right now.
Also, what RH specific changes are in this gcc?
It's a stabilized fork of a CVS version. See http://www.bero.org/gcc296.html [bero.org] for a further explanation.
Why isn't gcc-3.01 being distributed? Does it have major issues?
It's included as a preview package, but it's not ready for a standard compiler.
It breaks binary compatibility with the compiler used in prior 7.x releases (which is something we don't do in minor releases), and its C++ part is quite broken ATM (try running a version of KDE that was compiled with gcc 3.0.1 and you'll see what I mean - it crashes at startup).
Re:Question about the ISO files (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Question about the ISO files (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Question about the ISO files (Score:3, Informative)
All in all, unless you do a extrememe minimal instalation, you will _definatly_ need disk to.
The point i'm trying to make, it is not a 'PowerTools' or 'Addons' disk, it is an intergral part of the instalation!
They have merged the PowerTools into the main instalation set (leaving out not often used, or badly maintained, or conflicting tools). So currently there is no 'Addons' cd's.
.. Unless you get the $199 Redhat 7.2 Pro set, which has (if i remeber correctly) 6 cd's containing quite a few extra apps and daemons.
Re:step softly (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course I never jump on the bandwagon as soon as something is released. I always wait around for ppl to say something and hear complaints.
The only exception to this is Debian, apt-get upgrade using Sid and haven't had a problem yet ^__^
Re:Still no djbdns (Score:4, Interesting)
If you want us to ship djbdns, convince its author to put it under an Open Source license.
The current license is not acceptable.
I'm also surprised about KDE 2.2, since KDE 2.2.1 has been out for quite a while now
KDE is actually pseudo-2.2.1: We took 2.2, and merged all fixes from the stable CVS branch (and a couple of other patches).
Couldn't update to the official 2.2.1 because of the freeze - but the 2.2-* packages in 7.2 have all the fixes from 2.2.1 up to the day before it was released.
The same goes for the kernel version (2.4.7)
Which is actually 2.4.7 plus a lot of bugfixes from later versions, plus ext3, plus new drivers, and more.
Making sure the kernel is highly stable even under extreme load (and longer uptimes) takes time.
Re:does grub support xp (Score:2)
Either install XP in a fat32 partition, and use the standard other=/dev/hda2 config, or install it on a NTFS file system, and read the LILO Howto section on chain-loading the NT boot loader from a NTFS system.
There's nothing 'new' about how XP loads its OS.. just the standard NT (4/2000) OS loader, hiden under a prety graphic screen.
i have it dual booting perfectly on my laptop (ext2/fat32) and on my workstation (ext3/ntfs) using LILO.
(have not tried this under GRUB yet, so dont know how that works)
Re:does grub support xp (Score:2)
Re:uh oh (Score:2, Interesting)
Sorry I cannot find now the URL. But this was explained at the local LUG on a Kernel Talk. And I come to respect those folks. They usually know what they are talking about.
So there it goes another piece of FUD against the Linux comunity...
Does someone has the link to Linus interview about this?
Re:GRUB sucks (Score:2)
then, no more grub
Re:GRUB sucks (Score:2)
Re:ext3, ok but what about reiserfs? (Score:3, Interesting)
Support is compiled into the kernel and the required userland tools are included.
It's not supported by the installer (but existing reiserfs partitions will be mounted) because the kernel team says it's still not 100% ready.
It will be very hard to devfs and reiserfs to succeed if RH makes it difficult
There are currently a number of known security problems with devfs, so making that easy is not a good idea just yet.
You want Poser Linux, of course! (Score:5, Funny)
That's a very good question, AC. Since there really is no distribution that fits your criteria, I've decided to create a new distribution, which will be called "l33t L1|\|ux", of course, although its internal codename will be "Poser Linux" because that's easier to spell and means the same thing.
I plan to replace all messages in the source code with their l33t_5p34k equivalents, for starters. It'll have an Enlightenment desktop, with a Matrix theme, of course - gotta stick to stuff that everyone recognizes as cool, even your parents, otherwise someone might not realize that you're cool. Best of all, this distribution is going to be 100% free - I'll even fedex you the CDs 2-day, for free! I figure the daemon I install to email me your parent's credit card numbers when you buy something online will more than make up for any distribution costs!
Re:GCC 3.01 (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Recommend you use a vulnerable kernel ? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:RH just became a whole lot more expensive (Score:3, Informative)