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Mandriva Businesses

Newest Mandrake Linux Delayed 179

Posted by timothy
from the damnable-import-duties dept.
Jens Lönn writes: "Linux seller MandrakeSoft has had to delay shipment of its newest version of Linux because of problems in moving manufacturing to the United States. Mandrake Linux 8.1 is available as a download, but the first CDs of the product were supposed to ship by the end of September. "Getting 8.1 production up and running in North America has been a slow and expensive process," the company said in a e-mail message to those who have ordered the CD." Since Mandrake makes certains things so easy (smooth installation), I hope they soon get their newest release again on Walmart shelves across the U.S.
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Newest Mandrake Linux Delayed

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  • I wouldn't think that setting up a CD production line would be that slow or expensive.

    Obviously I don't understand the problem. :^) Hopefully they'll get it all sorted out soon.
    • I'd assume "slow and expensive" refers to contract / business / condition rather than technical problems. After all, the iso images and all should be the same for France or the US...
      • "contract / business / condition rather than technical problems"
        that seems logical, may be mandrake should turn to those in the far east for (i)legal CD production(duplication), I know they're pretty fast :)

        humps
    • by JM (18663) on Friday October 12, 2001 @09:38AM (#2419708) Homepage
      It *is* slow, believe me


      1) Get quotes and find the right supplier

      2) Fill in the credit application form

      3) Hit voicemail

      4) Get the iso images burned on a CD-R and tested on a few machines to make sure the media is OK

      5) Get the artwork in a format that's readable by the film-maker (sorry, gotta use QuarkXpress)

      6) Get the artwork to a print bureau and check the output for any errors

      7) Get the address where to send all the materials

      8) Send them

      9) Make sure all they received is okay

      10) Hit the voice mail

      11) It's weekend, so it will have to wait until monday

      12) The CD plant received all the documents

      13) They make the film for printing

      14) They fax you a copy

      15) You approve the copy and send it back

      16) They call to ask it you want a white background or leave it silvery. They hit your voicemail

      17) You call them back and tell them to leave it silvery

      18) They start manufacturing

      19) A couple of days later, your CDs are ready, they ship it to you via UPS/Fedex/Whatever

      20) You receive them in your warehouse and have to ship thousands of CDs one-by-one

      • You left out all the government paperwork involved in hiring employees, allowing people from France to work in the U.S., permits for manufacturing, environmental impact, lawyers and accountants, and so on, and so on...

        Those must have been big tarrifs!
        • The paperwork you're talking about is only if Mandrake would have built their own CD plant, which is not the case.
          • That depends on how the government defines manufacturing. Sticking CDs and a manual into a box and plastic wrapping it might qualify. Who knows when the government sets the rules?

            The paperwork for employees and work permits for aliens still apply.
            • There was a big push on in Canada about 15+ years ago to "Buy Canadian". I was in the Bay (Hudson's Bay Company, quintessential Canadian store) when I noticed a snowblower plastered with a big Made In Canada sticker. Closer examination revealed, the engine was American the tires German and much of the metalwork Japanese.

              I guess assembling a few bits does count as manufacturing.

  • at Adequacy [adequacy.org] and other outlets? Really, Mandrake can't let their critics get to them.
    • I doubt anyone would let that "review" get to them...
    • What 'other sites' reviewed Linux Mandrake 8.1 badly? I've just installed it - my first experience with a non-M$ OS since CP/M - and it's great!
    • by Unknown Bovine Group (462144) on Friday October 12, 2001 @09:16AM (#2419583) Homepage
      For those who don't know adequacy is a humorous, sarcastic site and the Mandrake "review" seems to be an in-depth attempt at satire. However from the discussion underneath I think many people missed that. Some of the better part of the review:

      the release of Linux Mandrake 8.1, aggressively timed to coincide with that of Microsoft's much vaunted Windows XP, marks the start of the final battle for domination of the computer industry.

      The Linux operating system was born in 1991 and was created by one man, a Finnish student coincidentally named Linux Torvalds.

      Previous versions of Linux have been named Red Hat, Slack Ware, Storm and Coral. In stark contrast to the mundane names such as 98, ME or NT preferred by Microsoft, the crazy names of each Linux release hint at its renegade nature.

      why isn't the industry standard web browser, Internet Explorer, included with Linux? Despite the best efforts of the experts at the Internet Engineering Task Force to encourage adoption of the Internet Explorer standard, the creators of Linux seem to think that they know better.

      But here's the dead giveaway:
      Computer security is also an area that seems to have been overlooked by the developers of Linux. In these times when hacking and viruses are commonplace, it defies belief to learn that no anti-virus software is available for Linux. To add insult to injury, there is no Linux version of the popular ZoneAlarm firewall. By using Linux, you are issuing an open invitation to the hordes of ne'er-do-wells on the Internet.

      The shortcomings of Linux are obvious. Without even installing Linux Mandrake, I have exposed several fundamental flaws.

      As with most Satire, the danger lies in the unwashed masses taking it literally...

    • Yeah that article was hilarious. Intentional misspellings, broad-ranging comments, etc. The bit about Internet Explorer was funny as hell. As an aside, and I don't know how many of you 'Drake users have noticed this yet, but Konqueror in Mandrake has a link to adequacy.org. Even the people at mandrakeforum didn't realize this was a joke..all you have to do is read adequacy's mission statement and you can decide from there.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 12, 2001 @07:32AM (#2419177)
    Very smooth installation...until you mistakingly think the grey colored stars meant selected and format the wrong hard drives :(
    • I know what you mean I almost did that at least 5 times, call me stupid but I think a white box with a check or no check should be a standard for selecting or not selecting things because if you don't understand that you are too stupid to be deciding something
      • by Jaysyn (203771)
        Ok stupid ;).

        If you change the theme of the Installer GUI (bottom left hand corner) it does have little silver & black checkboxes. Of course, it would have been nice if they made that theme the default.

        Jaysyn
        • NO KIDDING!

          I've been using MDK for a couple years now. I just slapped my MDK 8.1 Install CD in a box to test this. I honestly didn't know those little colored bars at the bottom DID anything...
          Thanx for the tip!
        • A themeable installer? What the hell is the world coming to? That's just about as useless as the music in XP's setup (aside from the rest of XP's setup, which is useless as well).
          • Don't dis the generic techno. It provides fun if you install XP with musically inclined friends nearby. That, and it sounds just like the generic techno in all your favorite movie scenes: the train station in Unbreakable, whatever scene it was in the Matrix with generic techno (I distinctly remember that from my last viewing, but I forget which scene,) and a scene from Office Space IIRC.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 12, 2001 @07:32AM (#2419179)
    There have been lots of troubles all around w/ this MDK release - devfs causing headaches, a kernel level security issue ... maybe a delay could give them time to apply fixes so that the Wal-Mart crowd won't be left wondering, "Just what is this kernel thing anyway ... "
  • When you buy a CD (music or data) in the UK, nine times out of ten it will have been manufactured in Germany, or somewhere else in Europe. We have import costs very similar to those of the US, yet it's still cheaper for foreign companies (like US-based record labels!) to have their manufacturing offshore - even when they're selling to a completely different country.

    I suspect that it's just easier for Mandrakesoft to get someone else organising their North American manufacturing and distribution all at once, rather than managing the supply chain from Europe.
  • 5 yrs ago who would have thought that one could buy linux at Walmart?

  • Of course... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Greylin (72313) on Friday October 12, 2001 @07:37AM (#2419194) Homepage
    There is always the availability of CDs via Cheap*Bytes [cheapbytes.com]

    All three CDs (two install and the supplemental) including shipping for $10 US
    • Same as with the Mandrake site.
    • Cheap Bytes (bless their busy little hands) only dl's stuff and burns it, then sells it cheap. Nothing wrong with that, but Mandrake doesn't get a cut, as far as I know. The point of this story is that Mandrake, the orginisation, is having trouble making money because of shippiing problems.

      I for one, happen to think it would be a real shame if they went under. Mandrake and Debian are my two favorite distros.

    • Except that was delayed until recently, as well. I was expecting my CDs over 2 weeks ago.
  • You must consider the wal-mart crowd mentality tho.


    "Who in their right mind would pay for another OS when one came with the system i bought FOR FREE?!"


    It's not really a market i see happening. If you MUST have a Mandrake CD at 2am, most likely you can d/l and burn one yourself..

    • True True if you have a fast connection, but if you have a modem wtf you going to do download it at 2 am till 2am 2 days later?? Having it at a wal-mart is a convience and also supports the cause monetarily.
    • by mrpengin (525583) on Friday October 12, 2001 @08:22AM (#2419309) Homepage
      That's funny...

      I have a friend who was employed in the "electronics" department at Wal-Fart.
      While stocking shelves one day, a co-slave looked at him and said

      "What the H*LL is this [the Mandrake box]."

      My friend attempted to explain

      "So it's like Windows. Isn't that illegal."

      My friend now works at Pizza-Hut.

    • by Doc Hopper (59070) <slashdot@barnson.org> on Friday October 12, 2001 @09:52AM (#2419781) Homepage Journal
      Just so you know, there is a pretty significant difference between versions of packages marketed by Mandrake. The "download edition" doesn't nearly include all the software, or even quite the same install, as the commercial versions, which bundle Star Office, Real Player, and a host of other useful, but non-free, applications.

      I highly recommend buying an off-the-shelf version and comparing it to the version you downloaded. It's rather enlightening, and it's tough to go back to the "download edition" afterward.
  • by fmaxwell (249001) on Friday October 12, 2001 @07:38AM (#2419196) Homepage Journal
    There is no shortage of U.S. firms capable of packaging software and Mandrake's delay in getting their product to market could have dire consequences. The entire Linux distribution market is in a precarious position. Their business model is predicated on most potential customers not having the bandwidth to download multiple CDs, but with cable modems (and DSL connections) finding their way into more and more homes, many people are finding that downloading 1-5 CDs is no big deal. Start it up, wait a few hours or go to bed, burn them the next day.

    Add a delay to the availability of a boxed distribution and suddenly people are asking their friends with high-speed connections to download and burn a set of CDs for them. Some that would have paid for a retail copy will now download it themselves rather than wait for it to appear on store shelves.

    The only hope that I see for the Linux distro market in the near future is to switch over to DVDs since most people currently lack the capability of burning DVDs from images.
    • Hmm, it would be interesting if distro's only offered iso's in a dvd format. That would certainly encourage purchasing boxed sets with dvd's in them.

      btw, 2 of the 4 Mandrake 8.1 offerings supply dvd's in them.
    • The other option is including commercial applications only on the boxed editions. For instance, Mandrake gives the boxed users )among other things):
      • Opera
      • RealPlayer
      • Adobe Acrobat
      • StarOffice
      • A few closed-source drivers
      I think, in the same vein, it might be a good idea for RedHat or Mandrake to distribute a Loki game or two in their boxed versions. For $69, you get all the previously listed apps, plus all the GPL/BSD/etc. apps you could think of, and a copy of SimCity! That's not much more than SimCity sells for by itself.
      • If a distro could ship all that for $69 dollars that would be one hell of a loss somewhere, considering the price of Acrobat alone... I assume you don't mean the reader, but full application. If you mean the reader, I don't see the big deal... Throw in the Codeweavers commercial Windows-Plugin thing and you might have something... Or that commercial DVD player that ships with that IBM laptop...
    • The problem isn't that there are no firms capable of producing the CD's.

      But Mandrake had intended, originally, to produce them overseas and ship them to the US.

      Apparently a capacity issue at their overseas facility is what prompted them to move US production into the US, rather than wait for their overseas facility to begin turning out the CDs.
      • From the article:

        MandrakeSoft moved North American production to the United States because tariff laws for imported products effectively increased the manufacturing cost by a factor of two or three, said Jean Mar, business operations manager.

        The overseas company could probably have handled the capacity fine, but importing the CDs to america is expensive.
        • MandrakeSoft moved North American production to the United States because tariff laws for imported products effectively increased the manufacturing cost by a factor of two or three, said Jean Mar, business operations manager.

          Chalk another one up for regulation.
    • by moonboy (2512)


      Back when I first got DSL and downloaded my first .iso images I wondered myself how the companies that centered their business model around the compilation of a Linux distribution and the distributing of that distribution would make it in the "future" where bandwidth would be available in larger quantities and CD burners would be ubiquitous.

      Certainly we should all support our favorite distribution by purchasing a packaged product once in awhile. This isn't too hard when most are priced between $30 and $50 dollars.

      However, I do not see how these companies can continue to survive much longer without venturing into different product areas as Red Hat has done. I really don't think their revenue streams can support them for much longer. Suse has had troubles recently for some of the same reasons (IMHO).

    • This is not quite correct. If I recall correctly, Mandrake has some pretty signficant bundling deals with (I think) MacMillan to distribute Mandrake with their books, and that gives them a positive revenue stream. Additionally, it seems like when Linux Mandrake gets store shelf space, it disappears very quickly. My local Wal-Mart sold out of Mandrake 8.0 boxes within a few weeks of their arrival on store shelves, and hasn't been able to keep them in stock. (Yes, that's purely anecdotal evidence which does not prove causation; it's merely an observation.)

      Contrary to some "dot-bomb" companies of recent times, it seems like the guys who make Mandrake Linux 8.1 are conservative in their approach to selling their product, and drop non-revenue-generating offerings very quickly. They started a whole portal thing for the release of 7.2, then dropped it fairly quickly since it didn't look like it would make money. As a user of Linux-Mandrake since version 5.2 (the first version), I've seen them grow the package from a small offshoot of a stock RedHat install to a robust and up-to-date distribution with an enormous developer base. Subscribe to the "cooker" mailing list for a few weeks; the volume of mail is just incredible, and package announcements come in almost daily. Yeah, the products are pushed out a little early, without incredibly robust quality assurance. I hate to say it, but the strategy worked for Microsoft, and it works for Mandrake: People (like me!)*want* the latest and greatest, and put up with problems in exchange for benefits, so put it out there early and bugfix it later. Mandrake Linux, IIRC, is not yet a publicly traded company, but it seems to me that they have their act together, and know how to market the product so they stay in the black.

      On a side note: I noticed Linux-Mandrake changed the name to "Mandrake Linux" with version 8.1. I wonder if that's a step towards calling it "Mandrake GNU/Linux" with version 8.2?
    • LM 8.1 has been getting *very* negative comments (like I'd never seen before) on their forums. Just go here [mandrakeforum.com] and see for yourself.

      Devfs is causing many people no end of grief, I wonder if Mandrake is going to actually fix a few things while their "production delays" are taken care of. If they don't, I suspect 8.1 is going to be one bumpy ride for them.

  • by Ripat (19963)
    Mandrake 8.1 really works great for me. It has gotten much better since the last few versions.

    KDE 2.2.1 and mozilla 0.94 is included, which is very nice, and I can really recommend this version!
    • That is nice to hear. I can't say I had as much luck with it. I couldn't determine what device was my floppy drive (it wasn't fd0, like it should be) and was unable to mount floppies. It wasn't much of a problem, because I do most of my archiving to ftp, but a pretty important flaw nonetheless. When I went to look for help in the #mandrake chat rooms all I ended up doing was answering questions on installing programs and such.

      For anyone whose been using Linux for awhile, but still considers himself a newbie, I would say don't hesitate to try Slackware or Debian. The installs are not all that hard, and speaking from experience the lack of 'user friendly tools' makes a lot of things easier if you just use your head. I used Redhat, then Mandrake, then Debian, and now Slackware. I wouldn't go back to Redhat/Mandrake ever again. I know Mandrake has its niche, and I think its great what the company is doing for Linux, but if you're reading /., you should be, IMHO, be using something like Slack or Debian.

      • I couldn't determine what device was my floppy drive (it wasn't fd0, like it should be) and was unable to mount floppies.

        I had the same thing -- a post on Usenet explained that 8.1 (the download version, anyway) installs a broken /etc/fstab.

        On the whole, I've been impressed with Mandrake. I recently built my first x86 box (need a dual boot with Windows on this one) and took the opportunity to try out Debian and Mandrake. The Debian install was just godawful. Could I have managed it? Sure, I've been installing Linux since Red Hat 4 / MkLinux DR2. But I have things to do with my time. Mandrake did a great job with hardware detection and setup. Windows 98, on the other hand, which I've used occasionally but never installed or admined just sucked. It correctly detected far fewer devices than did Mandrake and required a reinstall when I added a modem and again when I switched monitors.

        Now, if only I could get that modem to work under Mandrake...

      • by Vicegrip (82853)
        devfs is reporting errors on bootup, my primary cdrom (which I booted and installed from) isn't being mounted despite the fstab entries...

        Something is unstable in my system and I'm not sure what it is: after a few minutes of running X the video occasionally starts to get corrupted... these things never happened to me in 8.0

        I'm going to regress back to 8.0 which was quite simply: solid. I'm simply not knowledgable enough with their distro to be able to troubleshoot the problem. All I can say is that 8.0 was great.

        p.s. installed 8.1 fresh from CDs (not an upgrade)... anyways.. for those interested, my system is an Athlon 850 Asus A7V and Matrox G400/SB Live/3COM3c905b/AcerCDRW
        Installation CDs burned after doing MD5 checksums on ISOs, and then afterwards on RPMs on CDs.
    • I wanted to use Mandrake since 7 but was held back on laptop incompatibilites. I've used RedHat since the dawn of time, not because it was the best distro per se but that it always seemed to identify my hardware correctly. They were always behind the times with KDE and usability, though.

      Hopefully 8.1 will work with my laptop.

      • Mandrake is based off of Red Hat. It's basically a customized Red Hat.
        • This was certainly true back when Mandrake was first formed, but not so much anymore. It's not as if every time Red Hat comes out with a new distro, Mandrake adds their touch and calls it their own. They started with Red Hat but have kinda gone off in their own direction with it, creating something that is, while similar in its roots, very different in its appearance and function.
      • I'd give 8.1 a try with your laptop.

        I have a Sony VAIO which I had a wide variety of problems getting any distro to install correctly on. Mandrake 8 was the first that installed where it was all useable (ie X config OK, sound working, networking working, etc). I had problems getting my wlan card to work under 8, but the installer for 8.1 detected and configured it without a hitch.

        I've got 4 machines (including the laptop) running Mandrake 8.1 now. I've been running various flavors of Linux on those same 4 machines for a long time and Mandrake 8.1 is the first I ever remember that installed flawlessly on each of the machines.

        As someone who's been using Linux desktops since the days of Red Hat 4, it's pretty incredible to me how far Linux on the desktop has come, especially on laptops.
    • I installed it, and it wanted to install 1.7 GB of stuff right off the bat. It took me a while to go, one-by-one, down the list to cull enough stuff so that I could actually install on a 1.5 GB partition. Also, it doesn't seem smart enough to tell that, while my root partition might have 1.5 GB, I have designated a /usr partition where much of the stuff Mandrake will install will go.

      What happened to the days when you could install a perfectly functional Linux system with X, apache, perl,gcc, etc. in less than 40 MB ?
      • What happened to the days when you could install a perfectly functional Linux system with X, apache, perl,gcc, etc. in less than 40 MB ?
        The same thing that happened to the days when a 486 was top of the line. If your idea of linux perfection is a 40 mb install, then Mandrake is probably not for you.

        Oh, I've only been using Linux for a little more than two years, but I find it hard to believe that you could ever install all of that in 40 mb.

        • This guy could install all of that in 40Mb because he was running XWindows with twm with no "desktop environment" no pixmaps titlebars or mouse-over graphics, with no super-duper nautilus file manager only an xterm. This guy is wondering why it takes more gas to power a Cadallac as opposed to the Civic he used to drive. X, apache, perl,gcc, etc. -- are just the bare essentials now, as opposed to the entire system. It's just a case of bigger and better.
    • How is this informative? It would be like saying that windows xp is great because it includes ie, whatever revision of explorer.exe they're on and that its better than windows Me.
    • by Anonymous Coward

      sorry, but i have to disagree -- mandrake 8.1 has TONS of problems related mainly to the new GUI wizards they included for all kinds of setups.

      i'm referring here specifically to their "Internet Connection Sharing" wizard (ugh, what's with that Windows nomenclature), which is supposed to setup up proper IP forwarding and some firewalling features, but falls furstratingly flat on its face. the anti-aliased KDE is pretty and obviously they spent lots of time on fluffiness and likeability, but they need to work harder on the tools they came up with.

      there's a long way to go in this respect, especially with regard to the inclusion of like fifteen different tools to do the same thing in a *standard* installation, which will surely confuse many of the newbies this product is aimed at.

      on mandrakeforum.com the consensus has been that this 'final release' should've been nothing more than an 'RC', since day 2.

      peace

      -p
    • I've had some real problems with 8.1, and decided to downgrade to 8.0. I had real problems getting my CDROM and Floppy to mount automatically. I had to mount them manually everytime I wanted to use them. I couldn't get my CDWriter to work at ALL.

      At one point, I couldn't view my desktop, or any of the icons, in either GNOME or KDE.

      Finally, I just said the hell with it and went back to 8.0. Hopefully, they will have fixed the bugs by 8.2.
    • Hmm... ok...

      To bad for all of you who have had problem with 8.1.

      On my computer it works a lot better than 8.0, and feels like a more polished product.

  • Tariff (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Matthias Wiesmann (221411) on Friday October 12, 2001 @07:42AM (#2419211) Homepage Journal
    The story is funny in some sense, and shows that the realitiy is quite different from the internet mystics. Basically, it shows that
    1. the physical medium and its related problems (time to manufacture and setup the manufacture) are still around.
    2. that for all the talks about global economy, there are import taxes on software - I find it very ironic that there are taxes en free software.
    • Re:Tariff (Score:1, Offtopic)

      by linuxpng (314861)
      how about the fact that you go to the store to buy free software, then pay sales tax on that free software.
    • your getting free mixed up... free as in speech does not imply free as in beer in any way. The US govt doesn't care about free as in speech, at least not in the software sense for its taxes. Linux may be free as in speech and the isos may be free as in beer, but store bought distributions are not free as in beer. They cost money and in the US, money is taxed. IMHO of course.
    • I have seen the speed of pirated VideoCD getting to the market in HK. Normally, you can find the pirated version of a movie on the street before the official release. Even if copyright owner put huge effort into protecting the master copy and the production process, pirated version can appear within 2 days. The whole process involve some retailer get the official release, send it back to mainland China (it used to be by courier, now through internet) and pressed CD would be ready in the next day.

      This story shows that technologically physical medium production may not need long time to setup. I believe the whole thing is slow because you have to go through all the process of registration (making sure you're not asking the factory to press pirated version of software), and the less competitive response time from factory because the market is protected by the government tariff.
  • by gazbo (517111)
    Heinz have had to delay bringing their new type of beans to market, as they are having difficulty getting the cans in time.

    Slashdot: So?

    s/Heinz/Mandrake/
    s/beans/Linux/
    s/cans/CDs/

    Slashdot: Quick! Hot news!
    Hmm. I know how useful sed is, but I never realised it was powerful enough to turn boring tripe into news in just 3 simple commands. Maybe I should read the man more carefully.
    • The "bean story" would be a lead item at (hypothetical) "Canned Goods Retailing" or "Modern Supermarket Managmenent" or "Restaurant Purchasing," none of which would give a rat's ass about Mandrake. And general circulation pubs would/will ignore either story.

      This is why we have niche media, okay?

      - Robin
  • It appears only their production for America was being moved to the US, so we shouldn't see any problems over here.
    :o)

    Kiwaiti

  • ... and extra time to fix this distro. I've decided to delay my upgrade until 8.2. Until recently, I was planning on making the upgrade to 8.1. The reports I've read, however, have convinced me to wait. Now that you have the extra time, why not box an 8.1.1?
  • by geirt (55254) on Friday October 12, 2001 @07:49AM (#2419225)

    I believe RedHat have the same problems, since RedHat 7.2 has been ready (even on the mirrors) for some time now, but they will not distibute it (ie. add the everyone-read bit to the file permissions) until they have the CDs ready.

    The RedHat 7.2 relase is available trough rsync ....

    $ rsync -av csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu::pub/redhat/redhat/lin ux/7.2/en/iso

    *** Welcome to the Purdue University Computer Society RSYNC Server
    *** Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN
    http://csociety.ecn.purdue.edu/

    This archive is available via FTP, HTTP, and RSYNC at:
    ftp://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/
    http://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/
    rsync://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/

    Report problems to ftp@csociety.ecn.purdue.edu

    receiving file list ... done
    dr-x------ 4096 2001/10/05 01:54:02 iso
    dr-x------ 4096 2001/10/04 02:01:50 iso/doc
    -rw-r--r-- 50 2001/10/04 02:02:00 iso/doc/MD5SUM
    -rw-r--r-- 624476160 2001/10/04 00:35:00 iso/doc/enigma-docs.iso
    dr-x------ 4096 2001/10/04 02:03:42 iso/i386
    -rw-r--r-- 226 2001/10/04 02:04:22 iso/i386/MD5SUM
    -rw-r--r-- 680282112 2001/10/04 00:27:19 iso/i386/enigma-SRPMS-disc1.iso
    -rw-r--r-- 542537728 2001/10/04 00:29:25 iso/i386/enigma-SRPMS-disc2.iso
    -rw-r--r-- 677961728 2001/10/04 00:22:08 iso/i386/enigma-i386-disc1.iso
    -rw-r--r-- 669429760 2001/10/04 00:24:42 iso/i386/enigma-i386-disc2.iso
    wrote 94 bytes read 691 bytes 314.00 bytes/sec
    total size is 3194687764 speedup is 4069665.94


    $ rsync -av csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu::pub/redhat/redhat/lin ux/7.2/en/iso/i386/MD5SUM .

    *** Welcome to the Purdue University Computer Society RSYNC Server
    *** Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN
    http://csociety.ecn.purdue.edu/

    This archive is available via FTP, HTTP, and RSYNC at:
    ftp://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/
    http://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/
    rsync://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/

    Report problems to ftp@csociety.ecn.purdue.edu

    receiving file list ... done
    wrote 106 bytes read 500 bytes 242.40 bytes/sec
    total size is 226 speedup is 0.37


    $ cat MD5SUM
    efab549656a1a85ab8fa39eb873eff0e enigma-SRPMS-disc1.iso
    70703897af7703b40e41777a3aa186c3 enigma-SRPMS-disc2.iso
    cf7bce0c1cdbfedfae29e60aef202f6f enigma-i386-disc1.iso
    fd705b3e5d0e37a828db35d21195a9f6 enigma-i386-disc2.iso

    Note that the files are dated 2001/10/04

  • Again? (Score:2, Funny)

    by briggsb (217215)
    No doubt, Microsoft is at it again [bbspot.com].
  • Lets see, the USA, promoter of free trade in the world, imposes a tariff on imported software.

    I guess the poor ol' US software industry needs the protection of imports, even though until recently they needed special rules to import more tech workers, and the DOJ is working on breaking up MS.

  • I been using Mandrake 8.1 for the last 2 weeks and let me tell you I love it. I think Mandrakesoft out done a great job putting Mandrake 8.1 together. It is so easy to configure your network, change boot loaders, install/remove software and download updates. Everything you need all in one place! Now I been a Linux user for two years and sometimes you just want junk to work without trying to figure out every little thing. I know if anyone who want to start using Linux I would give them a copy of Mandrake hell I'm going to buy Mandrake 8.1 when it hit stores. Just to show my support and even if you don't like Mandrake Linux I think everyone need to still support there disros of choice.

  • Mandrake has made such great strides in bringing the Linux desktop to the masses, this little bump will be trod over quickly enough. Heck I've downloaded my 2 cd set and I must say, that I'm planning on buying the bigger version when it's in the stores. (That way I get viavoice and all the other goodies).

    It's great value for the money.

  • Don't worry. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by binner1 (516856)
    8.2 is due tomorrow, and 8.3 on Monday.
    Seriously...where do these guys find time for quality testing...they seem too busy stuffing the next distro out the door.

    Sheesh.
    -Ben
  • Problems (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tiny69 (34486) on Friday October 12, 2001 @09:06AM (#2419508) Homepage Journal
    They are having more than just shipping problems. This was just recently posted to the Bastille mailing list:

    Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 00:22:18 -0700

    From: Jay Beale
    To: bastille-linux-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net
    Subject: [Bastille-linux-discuss] Available...


    Normally, I don't use this as an announcement board, but times are tough...

    I wanted to let everyone know that I'm becoming available for hire, as a number of people on this list have, as a result of some financial issues at MandrakeSoft that have a lot to do with the poor retail and financial markets.

    I'm trying to find consulting work, though I'm open to full-time employment if it's a good match.

    With that said, here are a couple good links:

    My consulting practice:http://www.bastille-linux.org/jay/consult ing/

    My security articles: http://www.bastille-linux.org/jay/consulting/secur ity-articles-jjb.html

    - Jay Beale
    Lead Developer, Bastille Linux
    soon-to-be-ex-Security Team Director, MandrakeSoft
    • That was the WRONG place to post this type of information. If he wants a new job, he should goto monster.com.

      What a jackass.
      • Re:Problems (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        I had no idea that my post on the Bastille list would go to Slashdot.

        I'm just trying to find work that matches my skills and background. It doesn't seem
        like posting to the mailling list about my availability is a bad idea -- I've actually encouraged
        other people in that community to use the list to help match themselves up with jobs.

        It's hard out there -- the economy is not so great right now and this is greatly affecting jobs. There are a whole lot of very capable people being laid off because companies need to cut their costs.

        I don't bear MandrakeSoft any ill will. Retail markets are not as strong as they were a year ago, or even a month ago. That's going to hurt everyone who gains revenue from that sector -- MandrakeSoft's doing the responsible thing by ending my salaried employment.

        Anyway, I'll still be sponsored by them, though not as a fulltime employee, for a little while, as they're able. I'll be contracting with them a bit, to whatever extent they can do it.

        - Jay Beale

  • So long Mandrake (Score:2, Insightful)

    by bryanbrunton (262081)
    It is now easy to predict that Mandrake will go down as the biggest Linux distro screw up of all time.

    (1) Their management is obviously incompetent. This group of French business dum asses handed the most popular (at least by download stats) Linux distro over to a bunch of dot-bomb e-learning idiots here in the States. They later fired that group. Who knows how much money that cost.

    (2) Mandrake has to have the worst marketing of all the Linux distros. There is a reason that no big OEMs that Mandrake seriously. This distro has attempted to sell an operating system that people will use to run their businesses while the main Mandrake marketing motif is a drunken looking goofy version of Tux. As for the Mandrake icons and graphics all I can say is it great that Gael Duval's sister has found work.

    (3) The Q&A that you see from the older distros like SuSE and RedHat just isn't there. Mandrake 8.1 uses DevFS. While an admirable technical pioneering effort, you just have to look at the Mandrake mailing lists to see that DevFS isn't ready for prime time. It is pretty much a disaster as there are significant hardware configs that DevFS can't handle. Mandrake went from the distro that has the best hardware support to the distro that has the worst. And this is supposed to be a Newbie Linux? 8.1 shipped with a kernel with a VERY broken VM. I have locked up my box many times now as the kernel after taking all 256 megs of swap dies a horrible death.

  • A few days ago, I read this review [adequacy.org] of Mandrake 8.1 which was, to say the least, a bit controversial. After reading some of the comments on the story, I wonder about the accuracy of many things in the article, but you can't deny that it genuinely reflects someone's experience with Linux. It's important to keep up with reviews that AREN'T written by us UNIX gurus, because widespread adoption hinges on the experience new users have with the OS.

    Factual or not, this is how new users see the operating system. The harassment that the author of the review received in the wake of writting it will probably drive him away from Open-Source forever and only further reinforce the stereotype of the Linux Community being elitists and jerks. Another story [adequacy.org] on that site (I can't really figure out the purpose of the site; some of the stuff is really weird) reinforces the same idea: new users like the authors of these two articles are insulted and demeaned for "factual errors" because they're... gasp... new users. The irrational desire for guruism and leetness wins out over the rational desire to encourage and help new users, and ultimately the Linux Community suffers.

    Just something to think about.

    I personally find Mandrake 8.1 to be a real gem (the X configuration has improved greatly, I love the changes to the package management, and I see little changes here and there that keep making me smile), but if the review reflects the experience that most new users have, maybe it'd make more sense to examine the OS experience rather than flaming the newbies.

  • I can't wait until Mandrake 8.1 hits the shelves. While I have downloaded the latest version and have the 3 CD set and have also installed it. I would like to support Mandrake Financially.

    I used to be unable to afford that. With my current job, I now can afford to support Linux companies. I have been happy with Mandrake's previous releases and would like to see that OS taken more seriously in the corporate and home user markets.

    One way for this to happen is to generate real sales figures that give software houses the idea that there are enough installed Linux desktops that they could make a few bucks selling their wares.

    Now, many of you believe that Linux doesn't need commercial apps. While that is true, Linux needs no commercial apps. Unless, Linux-users want their OS of choice to be taken seriously. The average PC user (Home or Corporate), will only take Linux as a serious operating system if there are readily available commercial applications.

    I do my best to advocate Linux to as many people as possible and that is the one wall that I regularly run into. Where are the commercial apps? Where is the software on the shelves of [Insert_software_vendor_name_here]?

    If you like Linux, love Linux and use Linux. Then support Linux, by buying your distros. Not only will it be good for the state of Linux companies, it will also help raise awarness of Linux in the minds of corporate [Insert_Country_Name_Here].

    --
    .sig seperator
    --
    • If you want to support Mandrakesoft, you'd better order your pack on MandrakeStore [mandrakestore.com]. Why? In traditionnal distribution channels, the final reseller (the shop) and the distributor (MacMillan?) take a big margin (traditionnally the two cumulated margins can be as high as 65% of the final price). On MandrakeStore, it seems that MandrakeSoft sells directly to the consumers, so it's very likely that they earn much money through MandrakeStore than from the traditional shelves. My 2 cents.
  • Smooth install? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by The Panther! (448321) <panther@@@austin...rr...com> on Friday October 12, 2001 @10:54AM (#2420150) Homepage
    My ass.

    Maybe compared to the text install of Debian that I tried first, okay, I can accept that. I've been trying to jump the Windows bandwagon for a few weeks now on some test machines, and haven't been terribly lucky with everything going smoothly, not even with Mandrake 8.1.

    For instance, if you try to set up an ethernet card using the Control Panel (or whatever it's called), you cannot set up a NIC correctly without using BOTH normal AND expert mode. Reason being, in expert mode, there's no way to set the Gateway and DNS (I think?) servers... you have to go to normal mode to do that, but only if you set up a static IP. If you set up bootp or dhcp, it won't show up those boxes. So once I set those correctly, I went through the expert install and finished off the process. This took some serious tinkering to figure out their severely broken UI, and several hours to sort out because they don't even show you what the settings are unless you get to those screens by pure luck.

    If I were the typical clueless Windows user trying Linux for the first time, I'd probably have given up and installed Windows by now.

    • If you are using DHCP you don't need to set manually the DNS and gateway. You're supposed to get that from DHCP, correct?
      • Should, yes, that's why it's broken. I set it for DHCP and it never connected. After setting those figures manually, then setting DHCP again, it worked fine. While the UI is friendly, it's still not entirely functional. But I'm sticking with it for now.

  • by gotan (60103) on Friday October 12, 2001 @11:22AM (#2420312) Homepage
    My feeling with the Linux distributions i've seen in stores was, that they always seemed a little dated. I know which kernel is out at the moment, and while in many cases the kernel makes as much a difference as the MHz-Number of your processor when it's between 1400 and 1600, the step from 2.2 to 2.4 was quite large, especially for folks with newer Hardware. Often the kernel-version announced on the package doesn't even tell the whole story, since the mandrake kernels even include many patches which didn't make it into the Linus kernel yet (but have a good chance to get there), but there's only so much you can print on the side of a box and not have it covered in fineprint.

    I think this is quite a problem when selling Linux on CD, since i believe many folks who think about buying Linux in the store at least know the kernel version (but probably don't bother about glibc, gcc, ...). With the fast paced and openly visible development in Open Source Software anything three month old already looks slightly dated. So the distributions must frequently issue new versions, and they must get them to the stores as fast as possible (since few people would buy 8.0 knowing 8.1 soon to be out). So when frequently issuing new versions another problem emerges: with the advent of the new version the old CDs drastically loose value, but the new ones need some time from being announced to appearing in the stores.

    The folks at Mandrake know all this, their distributions contain all the most recent stuff, their development rpms (cooker) are really cutting edge, and they even offered to sell 8.1 as preview and send the actual CDs when they're out. I run Mandrake and am quite happy with it. I'll probably buy 8.1 just for the manual and being able to install it on some friends computer (and also since i think it's worth the money), since i think Mandrake is a great distribution to start with, and also a good one to stay with, especially if one likes to toy around with the newest stuff (no distro wars please).
  • by Fencepost (107992) on Friday October 12, 2001 @11:34AM (#2420383) Journal
    (it's on a different and non-connected system, typos are mine)

    We have experienced some unexpected delays in production of the CD-Roms. The 8.1 sets were originally planned to be produced at our corporate headquarters in Europe. The combined delays in European production and international shipping has caused us to re-think our original plan. MandrakeSoft Inc has started production of 8.1 here in North America. Getting 8.1 production up and running in North America has been a slow and expensive process.

    We expect to have your order No [# removed] processed and shipped by mid-October.

    Depending on how they're trying to get these set up (high-volume burns vs. pressing), I don't see a 2-week delay as unreasonable considering that they probably had to:
    • find companies that could create the CDs (including labeling or possibly silkscreening),
    • get quotes from them (probably at least 3, and possibly a day or two each),
    • arrange payment (MandrakeSoft is probably considered a dot-com, and does anyone give credit to dot-coms these days?) and
    • probably all sorts of other stuff.
    It's the kind of thing that as an individual you could probably do in just a couple days, but even fast companies have more baggage to carry through the whole process.

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