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Linux Business

Stormix Technologies Shut Down 85

Posted by michael from the banners-ads-at-half-mast dept.
avidwriter@excite.com writes: "Linux Today is reporting that the phone lines to Stormix have been disconnected, and the Web site isn't accepting orders. Looks like another Linux vendor is down for the count." So, I think we'll officially pronounce Stormix dead. Some of the FTP sites are still carrying Stormix ISO's, so if you're looking for an easy way to install Debian on a machine, better get them while you can.
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Stormix Technologies Shut Down More

Stormix Technologies Shut Down

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  • Stormix and Vancouver (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I think every Unix geek applied to Stormix in the Vancouver area. I personally made what I considered at the time to be a pretty impressive effort. Along with my resume, I submitted a bug report on one of the test versions of their distro that they had lying around.

    Unfortunately, it wasn't enough, and I didn't get the job. I would have actually fixed the bugs, but the code they wrote didn't have any source code available. This means that their distro wasn't redistributable in beta form, if my impression of it's being under the GPL was correct.

    Someone close to the issue once told me, brilliat coders, terrible marketing. I mean, do we really need another distro, especially one based on Debian but with KDE?

  • Re:free software doesn't disappear (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I just LOVE michael's site [olsentwins.com]! Especially the "fash" section, where I learned to cut the bottom off of an old shirt to use as a hair enhancement! Oh, and the "dance party" photos!

    Of course, don't forget to read michael's emails [olsentwins.com]! Here you will discover how truly difficult it is to decide what to do on the weekends... have a pizza party? A fash party? Go to the mall with all of your friends? Have a sleepover and call boys on the phone?

    In short, if you haven't checked out michael's site [olsentwins.com], you don't know what you're missing! [slashdot.org]
  • > LinuxToday is already Slashdotted

    I think you are mistaking being slashdotted for ordinary downtime.

    linuxtoday ought to be used to the load caused by slashdot.
    --

  • I think the 1U thing came out just as they were going bust. Anyone know if they actually shipped? They looked nice in a coblt-y RAQ kinda way.

    ...j
  • After the apocalypse there'll be cockroaches and 1993 Infomagic cd-roms.

    And porn :).

  • So what about those that compile source rpms on Red Hat?
  • Posted by polar_bear:

    Yeah, and it's a shame that Stormix is going under. Stormix installs pretty easily on laptops and other computers... I really liked their install and management tools. Granted, I could get Debian to run on the same computers, but configuring sound and printers is way easier with Stormix. (I've found one or two instances, though, where Stormix would bomb during the install...but Debian just plowed through).

    Frankly, I think Stormix got burned by jumping straight into retail and by getting into bed with distributors like Ingram-Micro (they own Buy.com and have a bad tendency to let Buy sell stuff at cost - which screws over all the other retailers...) and they had some over-generous rebates trying to rapid-build market share.

    All-in-all, though, I think their heart was in the right place, figuratively speaking.

    Too much significance should not be read into this, though - many businesses fail, especially in new markets. Hell, I used to live in a small town that had a number of mom 'n' pop diners fail one after another - not because the market for diners or food was weak, but because a succession of poor businesspeople opened restaurants that they didn't know how to run. Eventually, a decent manager got hold of the place and has been running a diner successfully for five or six years...

    Anyway, I hope the folks I've worked with at Stormix have managed to find new jobs. They deserve some luck.

  • As for installing Debian, why should someone use Debian versus any other version of Linux out there?

    Randomly Related...

    Someone in local newsgroups asked why people use MySQL so much when PostgreSQL has had, for long time, MANY features that were missing from MySQL, and in version 7.x PostgreSQL is already almost as fast as MySQL.

    I guess it's the same reason why "everybody else" is using Windows: "Everybody else" is using it. People who know better what to choose will choose better.

    Or like why people are using MS Word when LaTeX2e beats the living datasegment out of Word any time.

    Don't get me wrong. Redhat is a decent dist, but I've personally noticed Debian is much better, so I use it. It's just that the "ignorant masses" (I really stretch the "ignorant" here) tend to use what everyone else is using. (After all, if so many people are using it and are not complaining, it's got to be good, right?)

  • 'FreeLinux has always been at war with OpenLinux.'
  • I think for a company that deals in Linux to be successful, you need to be able to tag along with an already successful firm.

    Red Hat Software lucked out because their distribution of Linux has become pretty much the de facto distribution, used by such big companies as Dell Computer, Compaq, IBM, and so on.
  • I was a devoute C=64 fan, and diddnt get a pc until a 286 basicly dropped into my lap. And there wasent a good reason to do so until then (286 and VGA) either. Im generaly convinced that CBMs marketing division was one dunk guy in a basement.

    To quote the Jargon Dictionary: [tuxedo.org]
    If you want to play in the Real World, you need to learn Real World moves.

  • Good point, but we still don't need dozens of distro's just because people have different installation preferences... just more flexible intallers, really.

    They're all basically the same and all the codes available, there's no real reason for all the redundany's in distros. Everyone should just suck it up and work collaberatively rather than competitively and attack the target(s) (servers and eventually desktops) together in one unified strike rather than 200 little skirmish's

  • Marketing error... (Score:3)

    by Coplan ( 13643 ) on Friday April 20, 2001 @01:53PM (#276105) Homepage Journal
    As much as people don't like to admit it, marketing really does push products. I never used Stormix, so I don't know what kind of product it was. I do know that I didn't know enough about it.

    I blame that on the marketing department.

    Even today, i'm not sure what exactly they have to offer (though I do know about their firewall stuff). More important is the fact that I don't know of any reason why I would choose Stormix over another product.

    It's sad to admit it, but the marketing department really needs to get into faces and get stuff out there. I don't remember reading any product reviews or anything like that. Did they send out free copies to anyone for reviewing purposes? If not, maybe they should've.

    Anyhow, one company going down doesn't make that much of a dent in the scene. You still got the heavy hitters like Ximian and Redhat out there, and so long as interest remains, that's all that matters.

    Cheers,

    Coplan

  • some cash infusion needed (Score:3)

    by NMerriam ( 15122 ) <NMerriam@artboy.org> on Friday April 20, 2001 @01:57PM (#276106) Homepage

    I wonder if $3000 from IBM would help the company? We've found a new profit model!

    ---------------------------------------------
  • What does Progeny offer that Debian does not? From what I read, it seems to be a friendly installer and support services. Since the friendly installer is GPL'd, will Debian reassimilate it?
  • I have two Stormix boxes - in both cases I just use apt to upgrade everything. When I wanted ssh (I either didn't bother to install it at first or it didn't come with it, I can't remember) I just run apt-get install openSSH, and poof! It was all in place.

    Frankly, I don't have the time to be hunting down updates and love the east of Apt. It's why I switched to Stormix from Mandrake (I used to use slackware a while ago but don't have time to go into administration at the same depth I used to).
  • I have two (kind of three) Stormix boxes right now - I was using Mandrake for a while but Stormix seemed to handle detection of things on my really old P166 a lot better.

    So what made me stick with Stormix even for machines Mandrake installed fine on? As many people point out quite often here, "Apt" is about as nice as package management gets under Linux.

    The great thing is, even though Stormix the company may be gone, and the Stormix site for apt updates is gone, I really don't care - I just pointed my sources list to the Debian site (as well as the Debian security site) and ran a dist-upgrade with no trouble at all.

    Stormix also had some nice administration programs and great installation, but really what I like most about any Debian based distribution is how easy it is to maintain even if the company that originated the distribution has problems.
  • Did you know they made a 1U appliance server? I never did. I thought they were just the distro, and I stumbled across the firewall stuff by accident.
  • I think you are mistaking being slashdotted for ordinary downtime. linuxtoday ought to be used to the load caused by slashdot.

    If they ought to be used to it, then why the downtime? Sounds like a contradiction there.
  • Here's the really funny part: LinuxToday is already Slashdotted, but Stormix is doing fine. I'm not sure what that says about each company's web servers, or their business model, but I find it hilarious that the dead company has better web staying power.
  • For some people, compiling everything from source may indeed be fun/feasable. However, as your farm becomes larger you'll learn to LOVE package management.

    That's why we've standardized on RedHat for server-type Linux stuff. Yes, I know that other distros are/might be better in some areas, but you have to make a choice.

    RedHat has good marketing, hence good visibility on the higher levels of management. That's important too.

    Oh, and don't assume we're not Hardcore UNIX just because we install our Solaris boxen from binaries (*Yuck! Binaries!*) ;)
  • The site is up, but the shopping cart doesn't accept orders.
  • ok, I'll bite: since when all debian packages are distributed source-only?

    If you so desire, you can download source RPMs for RedHat and compile those, or you can install the binaries. The same goes for debian, most people install the binaries, but if you want to, you can compile from source packages.

    Disclaimer: I am currently running an old debian at home, and RH 7 at work.

  • Re-read the story (Score:4)

    by MarcoAtWork ( 28889 ) on Friday April 20, 2001 @01:53PM (#276116)
    Before everybody starts repeating this (it's already 2 people)

    The story said that the site is not accepting orders not that the site is down. If you go to the site, go to the shopping area and try to order stuff, it says that the order section is down 'for maintenance'

    The rest of the site is up, and the story never implied otherwise.

  • Proprietary consumer applications is a dead market. Those small apps would be fairly easy to code, which means you'd be likely to have an instant free competitor. If there is sufficient demand for the applications there will be enough programmers who want such an application which will end up with them writing it.

    Vertical markets and games are the only places where you will be able to make any money. Things like ERP systems and very specialized software, because those things are both complicated, have no spare-time hackers who need them, and have customers likely to pay for them. And games, because there is always room for new ones.

    OT: Possible but not likely last I looked. Read the old KDE archives to figure our why.
  • Damn those people with principles. Why can't everybody be like me.
  • "I would be interested in seeing a company that makes a profit from a linux distro"

    I believe Slackware makes a profit.

    "Slackware has always made money (who else producing a commercial distribution can say that?)"
    See Patrick's post [slackware.com] regarding Slackware and WindRiver. And Slashdot article [slashdot.org] on said subject.

    Now admittedly, I don't know how MUCH money they've been making, but they do it by having a distro that is stable and secure [well, compared to most other distros]. I've found Slackware to be "short, sweet and to the point" Because of this I think more people are willing to fork over the $$ to get the distro. It's the only distro that I've liked enough to pay for anyway.

    Ender

  • Unlike Corel Linux, Progeny Debian not a fork from Debian (it's more like a commercial `front-end' for Debian), so you can apt-get from one to the other and there aren't any serious compatibility problems, AFAIK. If Progeny goes out of business, it won't really affect anyone (from the software standpoint; support is another issue) short of a change to sources.list.
    ------
  • I don't know about the other things, but:

    Mandrake ... loads and loads of applications

    Last time I checked (2001-Apr-20), Debian had the most packages. See below.

    zed:~# grep "^Package:" /var/lib/dpkg/available | sort | uniq | wc -l
    7002
    ------

  • Re:Good old GPL.... (Score:3)

    by Dwonis ( 52652 ) on Friday April 20, 2001 @05:55PM (#276122)
    Yeah, and that's what we expect from RMS. That's why a lot of us say "either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version": we trust RMS to have the same rigid standards as he has always had.
    ------
  • As much as people don't like to admit it, marketing really does push products. I never used Stormix, so I don't know what kind of product it was. I do know that I didn't know enough about it.

    In my opinion, the biggest problem with Stormix was that they had no corporate focus. I had a friend who worked for Stormix up until December, and I asked him: Why choose Stormix over another Linux distro? And he never had a really good answer to that... how can a company survive without that? Eventually, he was saying that the distro was just "advertising" for their firewall product, but even that was not compelling.

    So it's not just a marketing problem... they should have picked one thing (problably their firewall product) and ignored the stuff that did not matter. To me, that was the biggest problem with Stormix. Keep in mind most of this is second hand...

    -rt-

  • Tell you what: in order to put this thing to bed, I'll drive down West Hastings on my way home and see if there are lights on.

    After establishing whether they still have power, I'll then look for a "For Lease" sign around the windows and doorway.

    Following that, I'll check the dumpster in the back for anything that reeks of Debian.

    After I've collected my fodder, I'll report it to Slashdot and we'll start another thread on this dead issue.

  • Count me in buddy... automate those morons away from this site...
  • Actually, most the of the Debian users I know, including myself, just apt-get the binaries from trusted sources. (mainly any debian.org mirror). I still compile a few things and even tweak around with the code a little (and end up usually breaking something). When I used slack I would either download the binary from a slackware mirror under slackware-current and use pkgtool to install the binary... However I did tend to compile alot more under slack.

  • Try Progeny Debian (Score:5)

    by aat ( 106366 ) on Friday April 20, 2001 @02:08PM (#276127) Homepage Journal
    If you're looking for another easy to install and use Debian based distro, try Progeny [progeny.com], mentioned here [slashdot.org] less than two weeks ago.
    You can download ISO's and also read the instructions for upgrading from Potato (Debian r2.2) here [progeny.com].
    Disclaimer: I haven't tried it yet (due to a lack of time).

  • How dare you compare CEOs and investors to a lifeform as high-up as a bird!


    kickin' science like no one else can,
    my dick is twice as long as my attention span.
  • If the web site is down, what's the point of putting a link to the site in the story?

    Derek
  • Or at the very least, they should have waited until that product became a solid business before expanding. If they were making profits on firewalls, then expand into distros, but don't spread yourself too thin.

    The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.

  • Some of the FTP sites are still carrying Stormix ISO's, so if you're looking for an easy way to install Debian on a machine, better get them while you can

    Anyone tried both Stormix and Debian?

  • Re:Vs. Debian? (Score:3)

    by Wolfstar ( 131012 ) on Friday April 20, 2001 @08:37PM (#276132)
    I've tried Stormix, as well as Debian Slink and Potato at various times (I do some light to moderate work on the Linux Router Project over at leaf.sourceforge.net [sourceforge.net], which is based on Debian Slink, so I need a copy of it around.) None of the above are my full-time distro - I use SuSE - but I try and install and tinker with every distro I come across.

    Stormix crashed and burned on my system the three times I tried installing it, and I didn't have anything too obscure in there either. Potato and Slink are both fairly awkward to install, but you can usually get to a shell prompt easily enough.

    However, I personally take a wee bit of umbrage at the "easy way to install Debian" bit in the main article, because it is most definitely NOT the only way to do it. And Slashdot is what put me onto the alternative in the first place.

    In my opinion, the Holy Grail of Linux Distros, the one that does what even Mandrake (7.2, I haven't been able to get 8.0 yet) can't do for ease of install, is Progeny Debian GNU/Linux [progeny.com].

    Note that I don't use this on a day-to-day basis, mostly because of the blood-sweat-and-tears I've put into my SuSE boxen, but this is THE single easiest-to-install distribution out there that I've come across. It pegged ALL of my hardware - even my Logitech Cordless trackball, which SuSE's quite excellent SaX and SaX2 programs could not - first go around, and was easier to install than Windows.

    Yes. Easier to install than Windows. Not for us, the average geek, but for them, the average Windows user.

    Now, there are a few problems/bugs with the Progeny that I played with - namely, minor bugs in the installs package selection program that causes things to go wonky if you unselect a package in Expert Install - but overall, it's smooth as hell. One of my friends at work tried it after I suggested it to him; he installed in in about half an hour, got it up and running, and grabbed Ximian Gnome, and he's happier than hell. It's based off of a snapshot of Woody, so whether the installer is Woody's or Progeny's I don't know. What I do know is, if I ever need to do a system reinstall, SuSE will only remain on my server, and Progeny will be my desktop. SuSE's been good to me, but Progeny is unbelievable.

    Before you wonder, no, I don't work for Progeny. But there's quite a few Debian notables that do.

  • "get them while you can"?

    As if the ISO's are going to ever disappear, evaporate, or expire because their immediate parents have? :)

    Software mirrors and archive vendors like Cheapbytes keep stuff around forever. After the apocalypse there'll be cockroaches and 1993 Infomagic cd-roms.

    ===

  • The biggest company behind any distro is RedHat, and they make almost no money off sales. They try and offer support contracts and make their money there, but even that is slim

    I'm far too lazy to go read RedHat's public financial information, but I always assumed they made money from support. I don't mean the "Joe Consumer calls us up and we help him install X-Windows" bullshit end-user support that no-one on earth enjoys being subjected to in any situation. I mean real support, to people with money who need support, and not just a clue stick.

    Like, the kind of support where IBM says "We wan't to sell a laptop with Linux pre-installed. Help us validate and test the hardware and driver list, and help us keep the driver list up to date for the next three years." Or, the kind of support where Compaq says "we want to sell more Linux severs. Help us improve the drivers and utility software for our Compaq SmartArray RAID controllers." Or, even the kind of support where Oracle says "help us validate our software on future versions of the Linux operating system and future versions of glibc."

    If any Linux vendor is trying to make money by end user sales, or by selling support to end users, it should be clear to anyone that Linux vendor is going to be royally fucked. I believe there can be a great deal of value in writing, maintaining, and improving free software -- if you find someone who believes the existance of that software is valuable to them. I can't see any value in selling free software. It's not compatible with the shrink wrapped market.
  • HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    You forgot LINUXi

  • There was no marketing error that I could see. I recieved a free copy of Stormix in Maximum Linux magazine once, which... errr... isn't around anymore either.

    Damn, this sucks.
  • I hear the cry of another company falling off of the bandwagon.

    Say farewell to fair-weather friends.

  • Well I never said that you couldn't compile software on Red Hat. Or that you couldn't install binaries on Debian. Its just that(in my experience) most people use binaries in RH and compile things in Debian/Slack.

  • Re:dim futures ahead (Score:3)

    by Pinball Wizard ( 161942 ) on Friday April 20, 2001 @02:23PM (#276139) Homepage Journal
    The biggest difference(for me) between Red Hat and Debian is the way software gets installed. Red Hat is entirely based on using rpm to install binary images of software, whereas with Debian or Slackware you use your own compiler and compile the source to install things. Its a big difference to me, and I greatly prefer the latter.

    Having the source, browsing it, and compiling it to me seems to be the way to go for hardcore UNIX hackers. They would miss compiling things and wouldn't trust the software as much on a Red Hat or Mandrake system.

  • Yes, as they put it:

    The Stormix online store is currently offline for maintenance.
    --
  • As much as people don't like to admit it, marketing really does push products.

    And if you don't believe him, just think of the Amiga 500, 2500, etc. Great peices of technology, powerfull beyond anything at the time of release (and for sevral years after that), but they went belly-up in a short about of time. Why? Because the mass market did not know about it. Sure, it was popular among hobbiests, but that's not enough to keep a company afloat. Not that Stormix is any bit as revolutionary or impressive as the Amiga was, but it just goes to show, that no matter how good (or bad) a product is, it will fail without the push of marketing.
    --
  • Um, you can do that...

    or you can just install binary .debs like everyone else....

    By default, Debian package management is binary based. Sorry to shatter your illusions.
  • As for installing Debian, why should someone use Debian versus any other version of Linux out there? The underlying facts remain, Linux is Linux no matter which version you use its all core code, some are easier to use than others, nothing more.

    Philosophy: Debian is a community effort driven by volunteers, grounded very firmly in Free Software principles.

    Here today, here tomorrow: The fact that Debian is not accountable to shareholders means it's not going to disappear because it's not making money, like Stormix seem to have.

    Package Dependency Management: apt automates the retrieval and installation of package dependencies, as well as the requested package.

    Stability: A Debian release does not have to be rushed out for the Marketing department; it is released when it is ready. And it shows.

    Cross-architecture support: Debian runs on a larger range of CPU architectures than any other distro I am aware of. Intel, SPARC, PowerPC, 68k, PA-RISC, more.

    That's why I use it anyway.
  • /* Sarcasm on */
    Now that Stormix is gone, where will I get my security updates? /* Sarcasm Off */

    Or -- boy I will surely miss the....errr...what did make Stormix so unique that will make it worthy of me to miss?

  • try installing Debian directly onto a software RAID-1 root partition, or onto a system drive running off a Mylex AcceleRAID 170. see you in about a week.
  • Ok, replying to my own post... lame, I know. This was supposed to be a reply to the comment "Why the link?" 2 comments up... hit the wrong button. One of those days... etc, etc.
  • Yeah... my post was supposed to be a reply to the 1st person's comment. How it ended up as a reply to the story? Chalk it up to one of those days. I'm sure someone will mod it down.
  • SuSE does make money - the support is included in the price of the distro.
  • Years later, another fork will be created from NetLinux. The codebase will unify the strengths of unix with ease of use of the common PC. Of course, it will be released too early and will get a bad rep and later die off. *sigh*
  • If a Linux distro company was to fall down and nobody would be around to hear it, would it make a sound?
  • ..Progeny. I installed it on my system and i love it. It even has a graphical front end to apt-get. So Stormix isn't (wasn't) the only one out there.
  • If you can't convince the market or the consumers you exist and are worth buying, why bother producing?

    On the other hand, there are a whole bunch of reasons I prefer Debian to Redhat;

    Debian has a better debug and design cycle (read longer and more thorough) such that it works on more systems and works more reliably.

    Of course this is all word of mouth; I run only one Debian system, but I failed to get Red Hat, Mandrake, and Caldera to install on it. I tried Debian because it was touted as more reliable and better debugged, though almost an entire release cycle behind, and found that it worked.

    Debian also has a nice update/package manager, apt, though a bit cryptic in UI, is very useful. Network aware and dependency aware! It's cool.

    So Debian has a place; if a company existed that managed to market it correctly (just those two above make TCO for corporations much smaller) I'm sure it could survive, but you're right, it does boil down to marketing.

    Geek dating! [bunnyhop.com]

  • There can be only three (Score:5)

    by spike_gran ( 219938 ) on Friday April 20, 2001 @02:27PM (#276153)
    I predict that in the near future, all but three Linux distribution companies will be out of business, and they will rename their distros FreeLinux, OpenLinux, and NetLinux.
  • I understand your point, but I must disagree.

    Options are good!

    Most people will not rebuild the kernel when needed. If the install does not boot on their PC (like SUSE 7.1 died on my laptop) They will try to return the CDs to the store.

    They do not have another PC around where they can build a new kernel. Or the option of trying RH 6.1 and have it come up the fine the first time.

    If you play with enough distros on enough different hardware (and pretend to be a newbie) you will find that some run out of box and others do not on different hardware.

    Try installing some distros on machines which only have a 3 ½ drive for example.

    I have installed Slackware, Caldrea (yuk), Red Hat, Stampede, Storm, SUSE 6.4(ok), and 7.1(yuk), mandrake, TurboLinux and at least one other. (sorry, brain fry) and all had there good points and bad points. ( I wish I had enough machines to have them all installed at once!)

    Competition will force improvements in all the remaining players

    If someone could make X config easy/foolproof they would go a long way down the road to getting my recomendation!

    That said, I do expect more distros to go down and lots of specialization to occur. Ultimately I hope that every distro which is sold to the general public will run on everything which is listed on the box.(as least to some extent) I also hope that lessons learned at companies like Stormix are not scattered in the wind. (and the software they wrote)

    If Linux is to succeed in the desktop home market place, every sold distro must install on every machine, or at least not Kernel panic on first true boot.

    Maybe in a couple of years we can survive with only a couple of distros but until then...

    Now if I can only get Win98 to work correctly on the same laptop....

  • I disagree that Linux would benefit so much from having a limited selection. Part of the reason I find Linux so useful is the diversity of distributions, as well as their flexibility. If I were to say that all we needed was RedHat for servers and routers, Mandrake for desktop use, and Debian for hackers, I would probably be laughed out of the room.

    Just like in any system in evolution, the product will not improve if the current 'superior' product kills off all the alternatives.

    Currently I am working on a distribution that is designed to be highly specialized. (Not like the everything-and-the-kitchen-sink distros like RH.) Basicly, if you want to install my distro and use it as a web server, it will install and set up your httpd of choice, and NOTHING else. Same goes for FTP and SMTP, etc... For example, I would hate to be forced to install python when I'm only going to use nothing else but apache with perl scripts. *coughRedHatcough* That would be like being having to install VBScript into your web-browser when you simply don't want it there!!! *coughMicro$oftcough*

    OF course, I also agree that some distros will inevitably fail in the evolution on Linux... and it will be good as long as more can pop up to keep evolution going.

    Well, I feel I should give a disclaimer: I'm not in a thinking-type mood today. It must be the weather here in Lowell. I'll be back to my evil little self sometime soon. :^>

  • Although they are dead, Debian could very easily use the programs that they wrote, assuming they are under the GPL...

    I run RedHat myself, though from what I here they had a nice GUI configuratin tool. The best thing is they don't have to totaly die, Debian can pick up there tools and sort of keep them Alive for ever....

    On a related note an interesting Idea for commercial software companies is to make it so that your software is released under the GPL/BSD Licence when/if you go under.... Like for instance if Corel dies, I'd like to continue using the first Program I ever used: WordPerfect...

    --Volrath50

  • Is there any reason why Debian hasn't used the Storm Linux 2000 installer? I always thought it was the best GUI installer I've used for a Linux (and Potato based) system.
  • Yes and for a relative newbie like myself, I think Storm Linux was much easier the install and run "out of the box".

    I loved Storm Linux's GUI install, it was at least up to par with Red Hat and Mandrake 7.x in my honest opinion. Stormpkg is real nice also. Too bad the package in unstable is currently broken, at least as of last weekend.
  • hopefully this will be the start of a reduction in the number of available distros. linux would benefit a lot from having only a limited selection of solid instead of the current lineup.

  • Re:Company dead, sign of healthy market (Score:3)

    by mcspock ( 252093 ) on Friday April 20, 2001 @01:56PM (#276160)
    I would be interested in seeing a company that makes a profit from a linux distro. The biggest company behind any distro is RedHat, and they make almost no money off sales. They try and offer support contracts and make their money there, but even that is slim. If you look at the numbers, they made a bunch of cash in their IPO and used it to pick up Cygnus, which actually _does_ make money off consulting and support contracts.
    Small scale distros will have trouble surviving in the end though, because there is no profit model. That is the only way they relate to dotcoms.
  • Some of the FTP sites are still carrying Stormix ISO's, so if you're looking for an easy way to install Debian on a machine, better get them while you can.

    Why would you install a dead linux distro ? So that updates would cease to be available along with support ? If you want an easy way to install Debian on a machine, the distribution for that is progeny [progeny.com]

  • Company dead, sign of healthy market (Score:3)

    by Zeinfeld ( 263942 ) on Friday April 20, 2001 @01:49PM (#276162) Homepage
    In a capitalist society companies go bust all the time. The current shakeout of the dotcoms has made venture capital much harder to get. Companies that make a loss have to convince their backers they will make a profit soon.

    This is a good thing. The job market for geeks at the moment is still pretty tight. Better to lay off staff while there are jobs to be had at profitable concerns than to wait for a real recession to hand out pink slips.

  • so if you're looking for an easy way to install Debian on a machine, better get them while you can.

    The only actual version of Linux I could see withstanding the storm is sadly Redhat. Most other versions of Lin have crappy marketing teams.

    As for installing Debian, why should someone use Debian versus any other version of Linux out there? The underlying facts remain, Linux is Linux no matter which version you use its all core code, some are easier to use than others, nothing more.

    Its this method of thinking that disrupts the company's earnings in the future. Why would you hype up Debian and not Redhat, when in essence at the bare bones they're the same OS?

    Factors such as these (judging one over the ther) have a lot of repurcussions on those small companies. PR people, marketers look at what the industry is up to, and fortunately fro Redhat they looked ahead and made more marketing pushes than any other versions of Lin around.

    So another Lin company went under... Big deal, where was Slashdot's posting when Stampede all of the sudden disappeared?

    No thanks I'll stick to my BSD's.

    © Pimpfolio [antioffline.com]

  • Who the hell needs marketing? Example: Debian itself has basically zero marketing. Yet it's one of the more popular distros, and it's widely used.

    More widely used by whom? Hobbyist? Sure developers that spent their time and effort, are sure glad to know hobbyist who often dl for free to tinker with their OS like their work. Now if only those same hobbyist could help pay for their work to keep it going.

    Same with Slackware. The best marketing is word of mouth, and THAT is what matters in this community.

    I think you should wake up and smell the coffee brewing. Sure word of mouth is great. Try explaining the differences between an unknown version of Linux your thinking of putting on a production network of your client, to your bosses who only have heard of Redhat (who you could actually get support and not wonder if they're going under next week).

    Red Hat may have deep pockets, but that doesn't mean they'll necessarily succeed any more than anybody else.

    You're kidding me? So far RedHat looks to be the last nab standing in the long run, unless Corel can make something happen. (which Corel truly sucks at. All they basically have is a name at this point, and if I'm not mistaken they may have already dropped out of the Linux game)

    So who's next with an unsupportive rambling?

  • These companies would make money if they released some proprietary software. It's great to give away the free stuff, but you should have some commercial software to subsidize what I consider community service. Make some cool app like a WYSIWYG html editor, a real browser, or a really good photo editor. Despite what many people say and all the furious replies this is bound to generate, the gimp is not a good image editor. It can do the tasks, but it just sucks on user interface.

    If they would just sell a little bit of proprietary software, they could stay afloat. I'm talking $20 dollar apps here. No one would pay much more than that for linux apps. And apps are what linux needs. It's great that linux has a nice desktop. Gnome and Kde are wonderful, but what linux really needs is lots of useless apps. Stuff that you don't need, but everyone wants.

    OT. Is it possible to redo the gimp with qt? Or is the UI too deeply embedded into the program?

  • I like your idea personally. It was the basis of the QPL. Basically, they said that if they ever stopped supporting the software for longer than a certain period of time you could consider it GPLed. RMS took one look at it and crapped in his pants. He couldn't take the fact that people weren't using his saintly licence.

  • Custom made software usually is that way. I worked at a hotel for a while. Our software crashed continuously. Of course, they were using NT too.

  • I was aware of the fact that GTK+ was developed for the gimp. I was just kind of holding out for a qt port. I really get annoyed when I hear people say that the gimp is as good as photoshop. I would love it if it was. It's just not. Most of it's problems are UI too. Moving around in it is just a pain. Sometimes I get the feeling the developers put in features just so the list would sound like photoshop. It has bezier curves, but you know what I'm talking about if you've ever tried to use them. I'm not trying to discourage them. I know I couldn't write a graphics program.

  • Redhat will be linux in the commercial sense, it has the momentum and the money and the public name. Fun to pretend but there is a reason that things gravitate towards fewer and fewer choices, economy of scale. You still be free to roll your own of course.
  • GTK+ = Gimp Tool Kit => the UI too deeply embedded into Gimp.
    There is a KOffice graphic application in the works called Krayton, but it is very alpha. The KOffice team is considering whether Krayton should included in the next KOffice Beta. It will have a different interface than Gimp.

    Gimp has a lot of cool features, but I think it is let down by its user interface and lack of preview on all its effects.

  • I blame that on the marketing department.

    Even today, I'm not sure what exactly they have to offer (though I do know about their firewall stuff). More important is the fact that I don't know of any reason why I would choose Stormix over another product.

    Stormix's problem wasn't that they had bad marketing, but that they never had a market they were trying to sell to. They never had a niche that they fit into to. Unless you count the part about the "commercial Debian" market. ;-).

    Look at all the major commercial distros. They all have a specific niche that they fill. Mandrake: the desktop market. Red Hat and Suse: "enterprise servers" in the US and Europe, respectively, with Turbo Linux trying to do the same thing in Japan. Caldera: they have the Novell compatability. Slackware: powerful servers for people who know what they are doing, and not too far removed from the BSD's. Even Progeny is working on a niche besides being another "commercial Debian". They are working on something they call Linux NOW (Network On Workstations) which tries to combine the qualities of the server/pc network with the mainframe/thin client network, thus turning a network of commodity PC's into a single entity. Sounds like a great idea, aimed squarely at the "enterprise desktop". Of course there is some major overlap with all the distros, but they all do have a well defined niche that their marketing departments can and do cover.

    I just never saw Stormix having that niche that they needed to be able to make enough money to survive. Someone else mentioned that they had a lack of corporate focus. That seems right on target. There just wasn't any obvious reason to use Storm over any other distro, for much anything. True, they did have the Storm Firewall, but that came a little too late and, IMO, wouldn't have been enough anyway. Great product, good company, but no market and therefore nowhere to market to and nothing to market to. This really can't be blamed on the marketing department.

    Stormix did have some cool software. I've read about strmpkg (I think) which is a graphical frontend to apt-get, which is supposed to be pretty cool and being worked into Debian. Also, from all accounts that I've heard, their installer was a work of art (Haven't tried it myself recently, but will be doing so very soon.). I just hope that their stuff, particularly the installer, is under the GPL or somesuch license. It would be very cool if the Stormix installer made it into Debian in the near future, if only to stop all the complaints about Debian 'being hard to install'. But I've never heard anything about this, so I may be dreaming.

    Anyway, that's the ultra double plus simple version of the way I see things.

  • in fact debians unstable-tree is more up-to-date as progeny is - but notice the word unstable... progeny has build a stable and new distribution out of the debian packages...
  • You're mistaken, dude. *BSD all the way.

  • Give me games Iand I will give up windoze. Windoze is very bad, but until I can get decent, up to date games I just can't justifie installing a new OS on my computer.

    adding to my need to keep using windoze are Professors at my school requiring me to use "educational" software that will only run on a Windoze computer.

    until these problems are addressed I can't see how the market can support as many LINUX vendors as it does

    the herd thinning will continue

    nate

  • Much of the edu s/w is badly done in VB and hardly works in windoze, I can't imagine it working at all in any other enviroment, but there truly is no feeling like paying $80 for a buggy VB program that feels like it could have been done better with HTML and Javascripts.
  • when did being an idiot become a good thing. does the linux community really want the windows mentality using the OS in mass numbers. MS problems aren't just created by the board of directors but by consumers needing to be hand fed and putting up with it. VB,Delphi, etc all contributed to the windows low quality slow, bloated crap. Long live slack. :)
  • I'm a Debian fan, but Stormix's install is sooo much easier. Personally, I won't use the easy Stormix install, then do a dist-upgrade to get it all converted to debian. Nothing beat it's easy tho.

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