Follow-Up On TuxTops 54
Some of you may remember the TuxTops story concerning their exit from the laptop business. We've heard from QLITech regarding their acquisition of the TuxTops line -- it's good to see someone will still make it. [Update: 02/22 03:08 PM EST by michael : Newsforge has a story. Looks like QLITech will be taking over support of TuxTops' customers as well - good.]
better than building our own (Score:1)
Hope they can be successful (Score:1)
Mmmmmmmmmmm mmmmm (Score:1)
Go QLITech! (Score:1)
sorry this is my closest brush with fame.
Klowner
Now you can! (Score:1)
Linux for laptops? (Score:1)
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Kurt A. Mueller
kurtm3@bigfoot.com
PGP key id:0x4FB5FB1D
What is up with the names? (Score:2)
I don't know about the rest of you, but I think these have got to be the most pretentious names I've ever seen.
And what is up with "The Chinstrap". I'm no fan of the other two, but atleast "The Prince" would make a little more sense and not sound so ridiculously stupid.
"Hey whatcha got there?"
"Oh this is my new laptop, its a Chinstrap."
"Umm...yeah right. Later man"
Yay (Score:1)
useful for you? (Score:2)
(here goes my karma)
But really, I wonder if the cart is coming before the horse in this scenario. Is linux really a reasonable portable operating system. Sure, I boot ppc on my powerbook, and it looks really cool and stuff, but it's not useful to me on a day to day basis. I would hope any company marketing portables is putting alot of effort into building applications that make them viable. Perhaps I'm just being too closed minded.
tcd004
The guts of the Penitum 4! [lostbrain.com]
don't click here unless you want stock photos [lostbrain.com]
Not making it here... (Score:2)
I can put together a box myself from peices for less than what they're charging. So, their business plan is to enter a market composed of people capable and willing to building their own systems. They don't offer a considerable discount over the BigBrand guys, and their only distinguishable selling point is "IT HAS LINUX". My prediction is that they will follow TuxTops to the bottom of the heap before the year is out.
BTW, what happened to the idea of building a business out of providing custom distributions? Now that would be useful and a better business model than overpriced hardware.
Re:Now you can! (Score:2)
King Tux!
I suppose that makes that name a little more palatable.
Linux laptops in Germany (Score:3)
Werner Heuser, the author of the Linux Laptop Howto [mobilix.org] and several other helpful Lapop-related documents about Linux, runs a little business in Germany for Linux-Laptops. You can have a look at www.xtops.de [xtops.de] if you're interested.
(I'm not affiliated with Werner, I just contributed parts of the Howto and wrote the old Battery Powered Linux Howto that he took over and rewrote.)
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Re:useful for you?..yes! (Score:1)
i use it as our test server and my personal workstation. i can even take it with me and work from home when i get burnt out at the office.
Re:useful for you? (Score:2)
I am using Linux on laptops since more than four years now. I don't have a car, but I travel a lot by bus, subway and train. With the help of my laptop, I can do all my development, writing etc. "on the run".
Very often, I have to demo my work at a customer's office. I can just open my laptop and show them a complete, working web site, using my laptop as a web server, running Netscape on X. Or I connect it to their network and they surf the site using their own browser.
Once, when I had to reconfigure a web server, I just connected my laptop in its place with a "sorry, we're down, please come back in 15 minutes" message...
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Re:useful for you?..yes! (Score:1)
tcd004
Re:useful for you? (Score:1)
I was making fun of the name, "Tux-tops"
tcd004
Re:useful for you?..yes! (Score:2)
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Re:useful for you? (Score:3)
The answer is yes, but it clearly is a much smaller market than the traditional laptop market as a whole. For one, there are a lot of people out there who work everyday on *nix. Many of those people are certainly more comfortable in Linux than they are in Windows. In fact, I work in a Systems/Database support organization where all the DBA's and SA's have been given laptops w/ docking stations for our everyday use. They all came loaded with WinNT and now every one of the SA's and a couple of the DBA's have loaded some form of Linux on them.
While 24 people may not seem like a lot in the grand scheme, I now that the same thing happened in a very large networking firms engineering departments, and I'm willing to bet there are many more out there.
Re:What is up with the names? (Score:2)
So they aren't necessarily smoking crack. Though on the other hand, I have to wonder about any company willing to ship you a computer that comes standard with hardware that is not and likely will not be supported by the OS. Built-in winmodems, for instance -- but one of these models (the Chinstrap, I think) uses an audio chipset that only has buggy early-alpha support.
Re:Not making it here... (Score:1)
I haven't installed Linux on a laptop (oooh - I like the ring of that!), but I probably will soon. Just where are the major problems?
nit picking... (Score:1)
These laptops have softmodems, which aren't supported ("There is no Linux support for this softmodem (yet), but it works in Windows"), or may have experimental support, but they're not willing to support them ("It is frankly more cost-effective for us to ignore this hardware and consider it useless").
All three machine's sound chips are supported by experimental early-stage drivers (the chinstrap's audio "skips occasionally, hangs occasionally, and loops occasionally. It may react badly to APM events. Sound recording does not work at all.") The emperor and the king's sound chips are supported by binary-only drivers.
The emperor has a problem where it always suspends when you close the laptop, the chinstrap's video hardware is only supported in X by means of a binary-only experimental beta driver.. And even in the full-disclosure bit, they don't seem to tell you who manufactures these machines. Certainly they're not building themselves, or they'd use linux-compatible hardware.
Plus, they all appear to be MORE expensive than equivlant laptops with windows installed. Hows that?
Re:What is up with the names? (Score:2)
Re:What is up with the names? (Score:1)
By the way, congrats on your knowledge of Penguins.
Re:nit picking... (Score:2)
The only way we are going get get companies like Lucent to finally provide drivers is to show that people will *BUY* their products.
The Emperor, and King are built by Compal, (no, not a typo Compal, not Compaq) and the Emperor is the *SAME* unit as the Dell Inspiron 5000e, last we checked we were about $300.00 less than Dell on this unit.
Regarding sound:
The Chinstrap is a cranky unit, and is more well suited to a dual boot setup. Cirrus Logic Just sent us "production" audio drivers for the King, and we've had *NO* problems with the Emperor under R.H 7.0 / 7.1 Beta.
As per an earlier post, Most of Tuxtops' field data was based on RH 6.1 / 6.2
One last note, when is the last time you've seen a good high quality laptop without a built in modem?
Emperor Linux (Score:2)
Re:Not making it here... (Score:1)
We are sorry you feel our prices are too high, and we are currently looking into a good high quality laptop unit in the $1,000 - $1,400 range.
Last we knew, the Emperor was about $300.00 less than the Dell Inspiron 5000e, (Both units are the Compal N38W2)
Works for me... but had to roll my own (Score:1)
I managed to put a Linux distro on my laptop after my hard drive crashed, and corrupted the windows system directory (Grrrrr... not really blaming windows for a bad drive, but windows did lock up on me like that was its freakin' job). It took some work, but the relatively generic hardware in my laptop took to Linux very well. Since I solved the PCMCIA modelm problem (thank you, sourceforge) all is right with the universe.
The beauty of the machine is that it works, everything on it is free, and it has provided a great learning experience. Who could ask for more?
Honestly, how many of us are in computers because they are easy, and come with pre-packaged hold-your-hand-and-don't-let-go OS's? It's all about tinkering, and the challenge of "hey, what happens if I delete this?" Whoops... time to reinstall... damn.
The two best teachers are Pain and Loss of Money. Admit it... there's a little Masochist in all of us.
Portable Linux (Score:2)
1.) On an airplane - No net access so you can watch DVD's (yep you can watch DVD's in linux), Play games [lokigames.com] or type whatever [sun.com] you need to type.
2.) In the car when driving you can listen to mp3's [mpg123.com]
3.) At home or in the office there is nothing a laptop can't do that a desktop can ... trust me.
Now if you've ever tried to install linux on a laptop you will find that with everything built into the mother board and lack of room to tinker with the insides ... that installing linux is not the easiest thing to do.
Solution ... instead of buying a laptop with windows pre-installed ... get linux pre-installed ... and QLITech offers this ...
And if you must have windows I am quite sure that QLITech would set you up with a dual-booting system.
So I am more than pleased to see that TuxTops legacy is still alive and not to mention all previously supported computers are still supported through QLITech ... they could have easily just taken over the notebook section, but they stayed with the commitment of TuXtops.
Lastly ... about the names ... have you not noticed the names of notebooks these days ... Protege, Satellite, iBook, or iPaq ... come on these names are no more absurd than any otherrs ... at least there's reasoning behind their names.
Name for an ultralight? (Score:1)
-- fencepost
Is this really even an issue? (Score:1)
Except for some more obscure laptops, many have no problem running Linux (Even compaq!).
I hope they can get a better supplier for their laptops, maybe a design that is higher quality with some quality hardware instead of unsupported low-quality made in china systems.
tuxTops could have been big, IF the laptops were made from premium components, not knock-off parts.
(How about a well supported 3d video chipset, well supported audio,(serial,irda,usb,etc......)
only my opinion though.... I wont be buying anything they are offering. I need better quality.
Re:Is this really even an issue? (Score:2)
however the Emperor is made by Compal, the same company that build Dell's laptops.
The Emperor is the Compal N38W2, also Known as the Dell Inspiron 5000e, not some cheap flimsy unit.
Plus our unit is about $300.00 less than Dell's unit M$ Tax maybe???
Last we checked the ATI Rage Mobility Chipset is *WELL* supported under XFree 4.01
Re:Not making it here... (Score:2)
Uhhmm...bargain laptops are now running in the $700 - $1,000 range. Linux is an efficient OS that runs on well on leaner hardware. Why would I spend money on a top of the line notebook? I've got the money, but why the hell would I choose to spend it on a white elephant piece of hardware like a $1400 notebook when I could spend it much better expanding/upgrading the other machines in my network?
Last we knew, the Emperor was about $300.00 less than the Dell Inspiron 5000e, (Both units are the Compal N38W2)
Which means...exactly!! That Dell can overprice commodity computer equipment because they are Dell. They have a reputation. A brand. I can count on them to be around and support what they sold me (or at least the PHB thinks so). QLITech is a no-name start up that may be gone next week. QLITech has to offer something much more than a 10% discount when going up against Dell's solid reputation.
But that still doesn't change the fact that there is no way that I would blow $2500 on a laptop. Not when I can get a Thinkpad [ecost.com] AND build kick-ass server for the same cost. Yeah, yeah...'That Thinkpad is a lame configuration'...I've heard the argument., but it's a notebook. A 486 would work to display remote X apps and allow me to be mobile with a few less power hungry apps. I choose to put the power in a workstation where it is cheaper.
So, to sum up, you are selling high end equipment with marginal discounts compared to brand name vendors (a discount that should be covered by the fact that the OS is free). I don't see the value proposition that will keep you in business, other than, "Hey, look at us. We sell Linux!!"
Re:Not making it here... (Score:2)
where are you going to get these parts
14" TFT LCD, XGA 1024 x 768, 64K Hi-color
Intel Pentium III Processor
128MB SDRAM
20 GB hard drive
24X CD-ROM
On-board 10/100 Ethernet port
Your choice of distribution Pre-Installed
StarOffice 5.2 Pre-Installed
1 yr. parts and labor warranty
Free Technical Support
for less than $2300 ??? Remember this is a LAPTOP ... not a DESKTOP ...
Quality, Price Etc..... (Score:1)
There is *NO* way that we would be carrying these units if they were junk, (I know the definition of Junk is vague).
The King and Emperor are made by a company called Compal, who makes most of Dell's laptops.
As a matter of fact, the Emperor, and the Dell Inspiron 5000e are the *SAME* unit.
The Chinstrap is a cranky unit, we will admit. That unit is made by ASUS, (Yes the same company that makes motherboards)
Tuxtops used to offer dual boot options on their laptops, something which we dumped for the most part a long, long time ago, henece the reason why some of these units have some unsupported/semi-supported hardware.
As for price, we seem to be in line with everyone else, however we are more concerned about quality, and reliability, than price. take a look at our systems..... Certainly not no-name junk parts (ASUS, Creative, ATI, Matrox)
I hope this may clear any questions the Slashdot crowd may have about these laptops. If you have a concern, e-mail us, please. We've been doing this for almost three years now, and we wouldn't be where we are at if we didn't listen to our customers.
Furthermore, (Score:2)
Fortunaely, due to the weird rules about faculty startup money, and since I'm also getting a real workstation, by boss is transmogrifying my startup pc into a laptop--which means I can continue work at home, even if only the editing (no, there's no laptop with the computational power I need
good heavens (Score:2)
The sound doesn't work for linux, but I understand that If i'd boot into dos first, then start linux from there it would work until sleep set in--but who needs sound???
Re:nit picking... (Score:1)
The only way we are going to get companies like Lucent to finally provide drivers is to show that poeple will *BUY* their products.
They will provide specs/source if they see that without them, no one will buy. People already buy their products. How is continuing to do so going to convince them to support linux or open their specs?
Regarding sound:
The Chinstrap is a cranky unit, and is more well suited to a dual boot setup.
Then why on earth are you selling it to your customers as a linux machine? Or is it configured as a dual-boot machine?
Cirrus Logic Just sent us "production" audio drivers for the King, and we've had *NO* problems with the Emperor under R.H 7.0 / 7.1 Beta.
Hey, thats great, but I was going by the information on your web page, and unless you're shipping with redhat 7.0 and the production audio drivers, it doesn't count yet. If you are, great. Go update your web page. If the support is improving, thats wonderful. I'm all for laptops preloaded with linux. But i don't think they should be using poorly supported hardware. That isn't good for your customers or the community.
Did i overlook where you listed the manufacturer and models? If so, i'm sorry for that. And i'm sorry for suggesting your products were overpriced, if indeed they are cheaper than elsewhere.
I don't make any appologies for anything else i said tho. The laptop i type this message on is running linux and linux alone. It was sold as a windows machine, and would appear to have better hardware support than your machines. Everything works, save the winmodem, and maybe the firewire. I haven't tried it yet. (actually, i haven't tried the winmodem either, as i have no use for it, but since the list of winmodems that works under linux is small, i assume it does not work). Nothing requires a closed-source or beta driver (other than the modem, if its supported at all). Nothing is flakey or half-working.
One last note, when is the last time you've seen a good high quality laptop without a built in modem?
This would be the first time in years.
Re:Not making it here... (Score:1)
We are here in the midwest, taking advantage of a low cost of living, and we've been doing this for almost three years now.
We were profitable after about 5 months, and we continue to show good profits.
We do this beacause we love Linux, and will continue to do so as long as we enjoy doing so.
I'll let the dot-com millionaires have their beamers.... I'm happy with my Dodge Dakota Sport.
Re:Linux for laptops? (Score:1)
I have had no trouble at all with running it. umm... this wouldn't be a compaq laptop you're trying to install on is it?
Re:Not making it here... (Score:1)
Plus I get almost twice the battery life and a much more responsive notebook than with Windows.
Re:nit picking... (Score:1)
we did have our webmaster change a few things on the disclosure pages, so as to make things less confusing.
Re:Not making it here... (Score:2)
HEH, cool choice. I've got a QuadCab. My two boys love it, too. Dodge may not have been first with the 4door truck, but that Nissan thing doesn't have shit for leg room in the back seat.
Unfortunately, that doesn't do anything to improve the value proposition of your notebooks. Gateway is in the midwest, too. Their Solo 1150 has MSRP starting at $899.
Re:Not making it here... (Score:1)
We've just started here by taking over Tuxtop's Line.
We want to add some lower priced units, and we have several units here to test.
If you think that $1,200 is too much for a "low-end" laptop, please tell us, and it looks as if you have.
On another point, we do *LISTEN* to our customers, which is why we offer the desktop systems that we do.
We are starting to listen and we are seeing what the community wants as far as linux laptops go.
Re:Not making it here... (Score:2)
.
.
.
for less than $2300 ???
Well,...? How about here [gateway.com]. There's a lot of other places, but this one was easy to find. Sure, it doesn't come with my choice of Linux distribution or StarOffice, but, guess what, I can get those for FREE!!
Re:Not making it here... (Score:2)
Re:Go QLITech! (Score:1)
Thanks a lot, now I'm crying..
Klowner
Completely unneccessary (Score:2)
For a while now, Dell has been selling certain models direct as a special order this way, but this is the first I've seen of national distribution of Linux laptops through major resellers. And IBM makes mighty fine laptops with very nice tech, like bright screens, passthru ethernet and modem (indeed, passthru everything) on the docks and port replicators, reinforced door hinges and so on.
There's still some (rapidly dwindling) value to a company that makes tweaked, optimized Linux servers and workstations. But if you can get Linux fully supported from the major vendors on their best hardware at prices that beat the specialty vendors (who are just rebadging no-name Chinese laptops anyway), what's the point?
I'll bet IBM's return and repair services are better than the little guys', too.
Re:Completely unneccessary (Score:1)
See our post regarding quality, and price of our systems.
The laptops are *NOT* no-name piles of junk, they are built by the same company that builds Dell's laptops.
Our top-end "Emperor" laptop is the *SAME* unit as the Dell Inspiron 5000e, and we are several hundred dollars less.
Re:Not making it here... (Score:1)
Do you KNOW that those work with Linux? They'd be great machines, if it didn't involve a ton of hacking just to get it to boot. I have no problem with having to code around something, but I like an install to go fairly easy.
Writing from a TT A20... (Score:2)
A hand to the ALITech folks for picking up a good line of hardware and running with it.
After hemming and hawing and drooling over Jim's [starshine.org] Obsidian 30 for about six months, I picked up an Amethyst 20U before trekking down under. OK, so I wiped the default RH install and slathered a real distro (Debian Potato/testing) on it.
The box has been a champ. With docking station, it's virtually a second desktop. Sans, it's a thin, light, powerhouse. Battery life is good (close on the 3:20 advertised), screen rocks, keyboard feel is great (packed a Happy Hacker keyboard, hardly used it). Onboard networking is very nice to have. Still need to try out the FIR, and I've had trouble getting PCMCIA up and running, but that's after wiping what TuxTops had given me. Power management works, though it helps to go to standby from console. Had to throw together a presentation -- plug video out to the pojector, hit the <FN><CRT/LCD> switch, and voila. Coulda saved myself a lot of worrying on that one... ;-)
One nit -- the screen tends to rub against the touchpad and mouse keys in the closed position, I've found it helps to keep a sheet of letter-sized paper inside the case when closed for travelling. Otherwise, very happy.
Yes, the pricing is comperable to (or slightly better than) Compaq and Dell boxes, and better than IBM. Yes, there are cheaper boxes out there, but they tend to do less or have less coverage. And, yes, if you're familiar with Linux, it's a perfectly acceptable portable OS. My alternative bet would likely be something based on Symbian [symbian.com] for instant-on and ready-to-fly systems. Windows? A joke.
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
Re:Not making it here... (Score:2)
Re:Not making it here... (Score:2)
Look, here is my wish list, and where I think most of the vendors are missing out on marketing the strength of Linux/Unix to the whole SOHO market.
I don't want to be stuck at a desk at home. I need a lot of power sometimes, but rarely. I want to be able to access my high speed connection no matter where I'm at. Sometimes I want to carry a little work with me when I go out of town. I want my wife and kids to be able to use the computer resources, too, and they want the same things that I do.
What I want is a decent multi-processor server (couple of Celeron 500, 256MB is plenty), with two or three of the cheapest laptops I can get, wirelessly networked. The server handles the printer and the Net connection and runs all the apps. The laptop is just a display device. When in the network, all it does is provide a login screen then pulls everything else from the server. A utility would provide synchronization of my home directory when I wanted to leave the network, then the notebook would run under its own power.
This is possible to do now, but the hassles of setting everything up to run together is a BIG hassle. I am willing to pay a premium if someone has already configured the system to handle all of this. But just a 'laptop with Linux' is covered pretty well by several HOWTOs. Futhermore, this isn't something to be marketed in pieces. This is an $3000 to $4000 integrated home computing solution. I just set it down power up the components, add a few users, and away I go. It would require your own customized distribution. It would require that you actually choose one text editor to include instead of dumping 10 on the disk. It would require that you test that the system does what an average SOHO user would want to do with a computer with out them having to download hundreds of megs of compressed source code. It would require that you do a lot of hand holding. It would require that you build a very large safe to hold all the money that people like me would send to you.
Prices look pretty good (Score:1)
I spec'ed out with the Emperor with an 850 chip and a DVD drive -- nothing else. Just over $2900 out the door.
Perusing the web to see what comparable buys were out there, first thing that I note (and probably obvious) I see nothing from IBM/Sony that spec out close for under $3500.
Toshiba [warehouse.com] has a Wi-Fi unit that's lacking the DVD, but has wireless and is comparable in price
Compaq [warehouse.com] has some units that are probably the most comparable (lacking in video capabilites) but are a bit less expensive.
Overall though, prices on these are great! -- right on the money -- and I put through an order for the Emperor!
Anybody uses Solaris laptop? (Score:1)
Galactic Geek