SuSE's Next Release Will Come With 2.4 Kernel - Updated 92
Several people wrote in to point out that SuSE appears to be the first big Linux vendor to have
announced a distro to be shipped with the still-cute 2.4 Linux kernel as default. Here's their
announcment in
English, and in German. Since they'll also be including a
2.2 kernel "in parallel," this isn't totally earthshaking (some other distros have been shipping 2.2 stock and
2.4 optional for a little while), but it certainly is welcome news that SuSE is willing to reverse
that order. Update: 01/26 05:04 PM by T : SuSE's Lenz Grimmer wrote to correct this, saying "Even though we ship with the 2.4 kernel, it is _not_ the default kernel,
the user has to explicitly select the kernel during the installation." Thanks for the correction, Lenz.
Re:somewhat relevant: Redhat and 2.4 (Score:1)
Re: What should they do else?!? (Score:1)
> Then, you install _every available linux package in the known universe_, even those that don't compile, leaving your drive full of useless tar files.
bla-bla
> How much of the HD have we used, at this point? 8, 10 gigs? That's 1/4 of the space of this, by today's standards, fairly conservatively sized hard drive.
It is much more probably in the Tera range. Anyone could make an educated guess ?
Cheers,
--fred
Kernel mode web *browser* (Score:2)
Cool!! Imagine the possibilities!
image=/boot/vmlinuz
label=linux
read-only
root=/dev/hda3
append="mem=256M hdc=ide-scsi url=http://slashdot.org"
:-)
Re:still-cute? (Score:5)
Something like that.
Re:2.4 still not perfect and SuSe still SuSe. (Score:2)
Mandrake has long been shipping 2.4 as nondefault (Score:2)
Debian is also mucking with 2.4, and I'm sure other distros are to.
I am using 2.4 in a couple of production environments that benefit from the multithreaded ip stack, under Mandrake 7.2. Everything is fine as long as you do not compile devfs into the kernel
One caveat
The other caveat is ieee1394 -- there was a bug in the drivers in 2.4 which has been fixed, so if you want to use dvgrab to capture via firewire download the cvs version of the drivers, install into the 2.4 tree, and recompile.
Re:better formatted as text, I guess. (Score:1)
Exactly! So who care about what get installed, just do the minimal install and add the packets you need.
> You can even keep your current install, I am sure it has got
> all the stable software you need.
So why would I use SuSe, then ?
Exactly, don't use it!
I am not about what YOU need but more about what SuSE can sell and what they expect (most) people to want...
> > But why should I care when the Caldera eDesktop will just
> > make a clean an stable install of what I need ?
> Ok, why should you care?
This is a discussion forum, isn't it.
I am just pointing out that SuSe might have more useful things to do to promote itself than put kernel 2.4 in its distro
And that's my point as well: I tell you what SuSE's business plan is.
> And why should SuSE care about what you care?
Because I am a potential customer and I don't want to remain
attached to any specific distro, it is deontologically to keep
an eye on whoever in order to get a decent distro.
Linux is a big market where poeple don't really need to pay for what they want. So ask yourself who you would be trying to sell a distro to? What kind of customer should they go after for big sales numbers?
> > Else, they should follow their motto which is to bring Linux
;o)
> > to the non technical.
> Since when is that their moto?
Recently, I guess.
Do you think Corel sold them their old moto now that they are going out of business?
> This is Microsoft's moto (just replace Linux with Technology ;o) I always thought their moto was:
>
> Put everything on the CD, get recent versions, poeple will buy
> it and get a newer version in one year.
Well, this wouldn't please most customers, especially the corporations.
Where are the big corporations who will buy 1000 CDs for their site? If they do this, that's silly, they could make free copy or even better, make their own install CD customized to their site... No wait, they could even pay SuSE to do it for them! But then why should they worry about the mainstream install?!?
> Let's just be the best at doing that.
> I know it works for me...
Lucky you.
When I say it works for me, I mean I will buy 7.1 (as I bought 6.0 more than a year ago).
Developers are kind of expected to be able to dl (Score:1)
So, I think the problem is not exactly that distros ship like that, but that distros are preferred at all over downloading the newest kernel and sources. I guess it saves time and bandwidth ;-)
What I find strange is that, in old SuSe distros, that if you installed other basic kernel packages than SuSe, you would get a conflict warning. This seems strange. Seems that has been solved in the new Distro ?
I think distros should spent more attention space on telling people how to swop their kernels.
Size does matter (Score:1)
Honestly, do you really think that everyone has 20G+ harddrives? Sorry I think not: I still use my 5 year old laptop regularly which has only 1.3 Gig harddisk.
When I started to play around with Linux (that was on my laptop), I coudn't get any usable install for Linux because SuSE, Redhat and Corel (the CD's I got hand on) filled the disk up so much that there was barely place to install any programs. Guess, what I found a nice sleek distro (150Meg installed, 90Meg iso-download, with KDE) and now this "too old to be used" laptop had a second life as a surfstation that does dual-boot W95-OSR2 and Peanut Linux 8.2 [ibiblio.org].
Small size and elegance should go and hand in hand.
Re:Flame bait! (Score:1)
I simply happened to be curious about whether SuSE donates to charity. If you think this is offtopic, please ignore it. I certainly think it's on topic. The article's all about SuSE.
I'm sure if Hubel and Wiesel had been closing the eyes of human foetuses, you certainly wouldn't regard their study as residing in a moral gray area. How are cat foetuses any different?
Re: What should they do else?!? (Score:2)
The other issue is security. With 1000s of executables installed there's bound to be some with security problems, buffer overflows, SETUID expolits, /tmp exploits and the like. The more obscure the program, the less likely it is to have been thoroughly audited for holes. If I can't trust it, I don't want to install it.
I saw a demo of SuSe 7.0 installing last year. Point-click-point and 3 CDs full of shovel-ware gets installed. Yuck!
I prefer the Debian method. Only install what I want to install, and a means of reporting bugs on each package which gets back to the maintainer. Also, via apt-get, there's a centralised mechanism for updating all installed code when and if security problems occurr.
Re:Flame bait! (Score:1)
This is a tech site, one that caters to a more "hardcore", and admittedly, sometimes narrow-minded view of technology. Many of the users here are environmentally conscious, but they know that this is not the time or the place for such discussion. When discussing deforestation or the impact of gill nets, we go elsewhere. Likewise, then discussing the new P4 or the latest exploits of some overclocker, we come here.
We're not as myopic as you seem to think we are.
Kernel Shmernel (Score:1)
Instead of worrying about what the kernel has, worry about what kind of functionality you get from the GUI.
I run RedHat and I know that the GUI lies to me. However, we are in the process of converting our coworkers into *nx from NT. They were trying to configure NIS. The Linuxconf makes it seem that NIS is fully configured.It isn't. They finally got really frustrated and came to us for assistance because the Linuxconf wasn't working.
There is LOTS of work to do after you tell Linuxconf to "Activate Changes". DUPLICATE the "My Computer" Icon from that "other" OS. Don't be ashamed. They stole it from Apple, who stole it from Xerox....
What is the point (Score:1)
so the whole point is basically "SuSE with its new distros is doing the exact same thing all others are doing"
Re:I want a 1.0 kernel too (Score:2)
Oh man, I remember the disk box I had that was just for Slackware. Then a new version would be released and my week would be gone. After a while, I broke down and got a 4x CD-ROM specifically for Slackware (and having music was a big plus). I paid $180 for it and it's still in my main desktop.
Anyway, most of the disks ended up being various other things, mostly Linux boot disks, DR-DOS, thrown out due to bad sectors, etc. I haven't seen one around in ages. I've been using whatever driver disks come with my hardware.
I'm amazed that yours are in good condition. I wonder if you can get ridiculously old versions of Slackware... or Yggdrasil or SLS (my first) for that matter. I'm going to look around.
Re:still-cute? (Score:1)
New kernel (Score:2)
In fact, it fixed a few small annoying bugs that I had with 2.2.18, and introduced no new ones, as near as I can tell.
This is definitely the most stable
Re: What should they do else?!? (Score:1)
Re:Kernel mode web *browser* (Score:1)
e-mail from SuSE about the release (Score:1)
Re:Congratulations and a question (Score:4)
--
Re:Interesting (Score:1)
Re:Wot no 2.4 distros ? (Score:1)
Why not SuSe7... What should they do else?!? (Score:1)
>Why does SuSe still want to play Avant-garde ?
Maybe becaused this is what people who buy a new distro want? Maybe selling an 'old' version (that you can find free in a magazine) is not a very good business model...
Anyway, I am happy they plain Avant-garde, and you can always dwonload bug fixes later.
>In 1999 they were the first to deliver the ATI128 X server
>but they should not deliver stuff they have neither coded nor tested by themselves.
If you don't want to use them, don't. It is still better to deliver something that works with some configuration than deliver nothing.
Remember the moto "release early, release often" ?
>2.4 is nice, but not quite ready for the non-geek. ,making new versions...
Really? I thought Linux in general is not ready for the non-geek, but go figure! I mean, SuSE could probably make a lot of money by selling their stock of old SuSE 6.4, why do they bother
Oooops, I forgot to say "I know I will be moderated down for saying this, but...", how am I going to get karma without saying it?!?
How will people know I am sooo coool that I am not affraid to stand for my opinions?
Re:Congratulations and a question (Score:1)
For example, it's plainly obvious to anyone who cares to look that their mascot is a chameleon. Now, who even knows that there are at least two different endangered species of chameleon? The Parson's chameleon, Chamaeleo parsonii parsonii, and the Smith's dwarf chameleon, Bradypodion taeniabronchum, are both endangered. I think that it would be downright callous of the SuSE corporation to use this animal as its mascot while not caring about its ultimate fate.
Both of these chameleons are threatened by the loss of their habitat, so I think it would be a great move for SuSE to donate to the Nature Conservancy, a non-profit organization with the primary goal of preserving animal habitats, often by buying lands and waters with especially high biodiversity and natural value.
Does anyone actually know if SuSE is doing anything of this sort? If so, my hat's off to them. If not, I will not be buying any of their products until they take up their responsibilities to the world and its natural habitats. Free software is nice, but a livable Earth is crucial.
First Impressions (Score:1)
- For some reason my X-server dies with a segfault. I know this sounds like a hardware failure, but it surely doesn't happen in 2.2.17
- The latency seems to be worse. From time to time the kernel 'freezes' for about a second. I suppose this has to do with a not totaly matured Virtual Memory system.
All in all, im reverting back to the 2.2 series for the moment. I'll try again when 2.4.1 ships.
Sander.
Flame bait! (Score:1)
This is sooo pathetic, got nothing interresting to say? Like "SuSE is catching up with Slackware, has overtaken RedHat but is still behin Mandrake and it's 7.2".
Why am I in such a bad mood today?
Re:Congratulations and a question (Score:1)
I'm Ella the Cat. The human I get to do my typing who views me as a pet seems happy to pay SuSE for the convenience of getting a working system. As a cat, I'm pretty much laid back, but my human gets really tetchy when reading between the lines of posts like yours.
Re:I want a 1.0 kernel too (Score:1)
Re:Well... (Score:1)
Yeah, if there's one thing I hate most, it's thoroughly tested software! Grr!
Where is the 2.4 RPM from Red Hat? (Score:2)
The big selling point for RH7 was its readiness for 2.4.
We're ready, guys. At least post a RSN on your website.
p.s. Inclusion of the Reiser patch would be peachy.
Re:Well... (Score:3)
FWIW,
The reason you see so many security updates for RH, is quite simple: it's the most prevalent distro out there.
That said, there are a few things that set distro's apart:
For the record I have run RH 6.2 and am now running Debian 2.2, I liked them both, but I do like Debian better. Take my remarks (maybe someone can expand on them a little) and decide what's best for your needs, there really is not much difference.
MartRe:First (False) Impressions (Score:1)
No, I too have X-server segfaults, even with a 2.2.14 kernel on a 6.4 SuSE.
Exactly the same problem as yours. I just upgraded my X-server to 4.0.2 and added glx and dri on my config file.
(*not* dri nor glx fault, as I checked)
As for your freezing problem, I don't know, as I never experienced it (Celeron 800/256Mb ram)
Watch for 2.4.1, as ReiserFS is great too (I'm using it since SuSE 6.4).
----------------
You have got to be kidding. (Score:2)
Do you know how long it took Slackware to get to glibc?
Do you realize that without Red Hat, there probably wouldn't be Gnome?
Do you realize that Debian's current release is always ancient?
There is too much stuff out there that runs on Red Hat, especially in the commercial realm, to seriously consider the alternatives, excepting their nitches. Turbolinux has more advanced clustering and Asian language support, and Suse and Mandrake have Reiser. Unless you need one of these components, there is no reason to make trouble for yourself.
Re:Congratulations and a question (Score:1)
Suse is a company, that means they are selling their stuff with one goal
Profit
is that bad ? no, they put alot of monney in kde and kernel devel. and you know why ?
its not cause the are friendly ppl who like KDE and linux, well maybe a bit,
but mostly cause improving linux == improving their own product
!/rant
so i think suse is a great product and that they can do with their profit whatever they want
Re:Interesting (Score:1)
Out
Re:Denial isn't just a river in Egypt (Score:2)
It's a life disturbingly similar to my own.
And I don't even own a cat.
Re: What should they do else?!? (Score:1)
out
Yeah, and? (Score:1)
Now honestly, how many sysadmins are stupid enough to install the default configuration? Do you think that even NT admins do that???
Secondly, for your average Linux user, do you think it's more important to have the minimum install or to have many packages more or less tested that you can fiddle with?
Once more I come back to my first point: Ok, you have got many things, you don;t have to install them and if you think that the only install option should be mimimum one then you are probably not the main target for SuSE (and yes, going with debian is probably the best idea).
Re:2.4 still not perfect and SuSe still SuSe. (Score:1)
still-cute? (Score:1)
What does "still-cute" mean when in reference to the Linux 2.4 kernel?
Cryptnotic
A Question for Pet-owning (Score:1)
What color is the Sky in your world?
really...I'm curious....
You've never worked on a Farm have you......
Chuckle, thanks though, your nick brightened up my day.
Tadghe
I want a 1.0 kernel too (Score:3)
Re:Debian GNU/Linux and 2.4 (Score:1)
First of all I would like to ask you, if you would be kindly enough to prove, that you are actually a debian developer. I am sure, someone with your knowledge has a slashdot accoutn and does not need to post anonymously.
Furthermore I would like to ask you, if you understood the concept of open source completely. It also is a way for some, that express a certain affinity to a particular topic, to express themselves. The so called script kiddie, I happen to knwo personally takes a lot of his personal interest into this project.
He does this, becuase he wishes to provide a plattform for other, which might be interested in debian as well. No one in sperfect and he might make some mistakes, which could be easily corrected if you went to him, now thaty ouknwo where he can found, and helped him to improve instead of frustrating him by posting such a comment on a widely used webpage.
Do you want to have support from the userbase for the distribution you are working for, or do you want to angeer them. I am sure that you could have made a smarter approach to this, I wonder why you see a need to diminish his product. Maybe it is not bad, but good and it scares you that somone is able to provide such a plattform for debain users?
I am not sure why you would choose to mark yourself as a complete asshole in some readers eyes instead of going to rob and asking him to improve on his work.
In spain they have a saying, roughly translated it reads:
Everyone should first sweep inf ront of his own door, there's enough dirt to be cleaned.
Have you swept in front of your door lately?
-----
please excuse the typoes.
Re:Debian GNU/Linux and 2.4 (Score:1)
The moral of this story -- take anonymous posts with a grain of salt. (or perhaps don't read them at all ;)
(Thanks to robster for the link, I wouldn't have noticed this post otherwise.)
Well... (Score:1)
Interesting (Score:1)
Secondly and more importantly, I think that the kernel 2.4 has a lot of great things to offer the enterprise, and this is a market where SuSE seems to be trying to extend themselves. If only they used a standards-compliant boot setup :(. (at least it is more interoperable than Red Hat 7.)
Think of what a kernel mode web browser will be able to do for web sites! Or even for a home user: USB and PCI modem support (at least in a limited form for the PCI Modems).
This is only a matter of time before others do the same, but I think that SuSE will benefit from this move.
2.4 still not perfect and SuSe still SuSe. (Score:1)
Frightening.
My problem is that I am not sure I may want to boot a SuSe install CD that may burn my sound chip during the startup. Especially because of this disclaimer written in small chars.
And finally, I don't like SuSe : not standard, too long to fix the startup sequence, each time I launch yast, i have to manually re-unset the "hardware clock set to GMT" because of a bug they would not correct since v4...
--
SuSe7... (Score:1)
In 1999 they were the first to deliver the ATI128 X server but they should not deliver stuff they have neither coded nor tested by themselves.
2.4 is nice, but not quite ready for the non-geek.
--
Congratulations and a question (Score:1)
But does this attitude extend any farther than new software releases? SuSE obviously pulls in quite a lot of revenue from selling their distribution. Does any of this money go to more enlightened causes? Charities, animal rights groups, environmental protection foundations?
Suse Distro (Score:3)
How Hemos Got His Groove Back (Score:3)
A Short Story by The_Messenger
===///===
"Nik, I'm not comfortable with your hand being on my ass."
"But come on, baby, you know you want it," Nik insisted. How had I, Jeff "Hemos" Bates, gotten myself into such a predicament? Sure, I'd always thought Nik was cute, and even though I never formally came out, Nik always seemed to know the wife was a front all along. And when "Gay" Nik, famous in the Open Source Community for his insatiable desire for rough gay sex, invited me to help him set up his new FreeBSD box, I had an idea something was up. Little did I know that "something" was Nik's ten inches of rock-hard manmeat, pulsing through his faded Levi's jeans like a wild jungle snake.
"Nik, you're hurting me!", I whelped.
"And that's just the way you like it, bitch," Nik snarled. "You know that famous cartoon of the daemon giving it to the penguin in the behind? Thats gonna be you and me, mate," Nate said with a flick of his golden blond highlighted locks. His English accent was so charming... it almost made such awful things sound nice. But no, I mustn't go down that road... "But first," Nik continued, "we must set up this FreeBSD box. FreeBSD is the only true homosexual operating system, and so you will learn it, because I tell you to. I won't have any dirty Linux user sucking my balls."
"Oh, Nik," I whispered, batting my eyelashes, "must you always be so forceful?" Nik slapped my ass and laughed.
"Calm down, you pansy. You don't know the meaning of forceful yet. Now grab that 4.2 CD." I leaned over and grabbed the CD set for FreeBSD 4.2. Nik got his media free from Walnut Creek, because the admins there were terrified of him. Rumour has it that one Walnut Creek operator who refused to send Nik the latest FreeBSD CD kit for free was found in the machine room the next morning duct-taped to a chair with an RJ45 crimper jammed into his bloody asshole. Ever since, Nik has been sent prerelease copies of every FreeBSD set.
All of my administration experience is with Red Hat, so I was a little scared to try a real operating system, but with Nik's expert guidance, I was well on my way to learning this queer OS. Nik showed me how to use the curses-based installation tool to partition my disks, select an installation profile, and set up XFree86. Within an hour, the system was installed, and rebooted back to a command prompt.
I was standing in front of the console when Nik came up behind me.
"How's it going, mate?" he asked.
"Oh, Nik," I said, startled, "you startled me. I'm just trying to mount this CD-ROM's filesystem. The commands are similar, but this Berkely csh takes a little getting used to."
"Let me help, love," he murmured. He stepped closer behind me, and I could feel his hot breath on the back of my neck. I moved my hands away from the keyboard to allow him access, and he mounted the drive with blinding speed. "There, all better. Anything else you need mounted, love?"
"Oh, Nik..." I said quietly, my breath rushing out. Nik stepped closer, and I could feel his hot tool pressing into the depression of my asscrack through his jeans. "Oh, Nik, yes, there is something you could mount." I couldn't take it any longer. This strapping Englishman's dominant sexuality had overcome my fears of public embarrassment, and there I vowed to myself that from that day forward I would be Nik's woman. I threw my arms behind me, grabbed his ass, and pulled him closer. "Show me your hard drive, you naughty little daemon."
"Much obliged," Nik said with a wink. "But I'm anything but little." Nik slowly pulled off his tight jeans and out sprang the biggest, thickest cock I had ever seen. Now I watch a lot of gay pornography, but never in the depths of my deepest homosexual desire had I craved a dick this magnificent. It was like a juicy flank steak, dripping with juices. The aroma of ballcheese wafted up toward me as his mammoth testicles swung like pendulums of eroticism. I lost control and feel to my knees instantly, slobbering greedily at the wonderous thing, struggling, in vain, to fit the monstrous cockhead into my mouth.
"Oh, Nik," I cried, "I want you, I need you, I must have you. Make me your woman."
"And so I will mate, but first I must prepare you. Take off your clothes," Nik commanded. I clumsily undressed, unable to take my eyes off of his prodigious member. Nik reached over to his backpack (the one with the rainbow patches) and took out five jars of Astroglide lubricant. When I was finally naked, Nik looked up.
"Oh, well look at that," Nik said, pointing to my tiny, erect penis. "How cute. It's almost as small as Jon Katz's."
"Now, Nik, don't make fun," I said, sternly.
"I'm just kidding, love. To be honest, I like the 'little boy' look. I see you've shaved your pubes. Nice."
"Oh, Nik, I never had pubes..."
"Even better. You bald testicles remind me of my youth, when I was gang-raped by my daddy and four uncles."
"You were molested too?" I asked, hopeful.
"Of course, mate. All us faggots were. Now turn around and kneel in front of the couch." I did, and Nik proceeded to slather my virgin rosebud with three jars of Astroglide. As he did, he worked his fingers in and out of my asshole. My tiny penis was completely erect, almost touching my navel. Nik reached down and stroked it with two fingers (all that was necessary) was he prepared my anus. I moaned and sighed, and called out Rob Malda's name several times in my ecstacy. But Nik stopped before I could waste my seed, and stood back.
" Hemos, I think you've inspected my hard disk for long enough. Now I'm going to give your box more RAM."
"Oh, yes, Nik, RAM my box! R007 m3! 0wn me!"
"Hemos, it gets me so hot when you speak l337. Keep doing so." I let loose a string of l337 speak which would make even the most k-r4d w4R3z d00d blush, and Nik's penis began the descent towards my throbbing asshole.
"Oh!" I screamed, as Nik's gigantor began to rend my asshole to proportions only G. Oatse had known before. "Oh, Nik, pump my virgin geek asshole! Use and abuse me like Jon Katz did the Slashdot community! Pingflood my rectum like I'm running Red Hat 7! For the love of Barbara Streisand, Slashdot my ass!!"
The pumping and thrusting started, and didn't stop for 78 hours. Nik took me on a wild, shit-caked tour of Heaven, Hell, and San Francisco. I was on the edge of consciousness when he reached climax. He spewed gallons upon gallons of creamy sputum into my rectal cavity, filling my body up with his love. My abdomen swelled up like a water balloon, and I could taste his cum in the back of my throat when the tide finally ceased. I fell to the floor, and Nik stood up.
"Now you are mine, and a l337 FreeBSD user. I dub three Lord Hemos, proud and gay, and you shall sit at my right hand in Wales, where I rule the Court of FreeBSD Committers with an iron fist and a steel cock. Stand up, Lord Hemos, and let me eat your dirty ass."
Nik helped me up, and I weakly stood, amazed, as Nik proceeded to eat my asshole clean. Nik was on his knees behind me, lowered to the same level as the lowest California gigalo. Much like Jesus would wash the feet as his followers, Nik inducted his lovers into his secret cabal of Gay FreeBSD Love by dining on their sore, runny assholes. He ingested his own jizzm, completing the Circle of Gay.
When my rump had healed, I left Michigan (and my wife) on a journey with Nik to the UK, a Gay Wonderland rumoured to be the birthplace of homosexuality. I learned the gay alphabet, gay spelling ("It's 'coluououour', stupid American! Tee hee!"), and to use the gay currency (uro), and had a BSD Daemon tattooed on my ass with the phrase "Property of Gay Nik".
This has all happened so fast! It's hard to believe that only six hours ago, I was Jeff Bates, closeted homosexual and Linux user. I'm so glad that Nik and I got together, and I credit everything to FreeBSD, the l337est and Gayest UNIX-clone in the Universe! I invite you to check out your local FreeBSD user group [faggotry.com] and check us out!
These days, I'm very busy with FreeBSD and being Nik's trophy wife, but I've also created HEMOS, the Homoerotic Male Outreach service, an organization dedicated to saving poor young men from the perils of heterosexuality and Linux-userhood. We've already saved Cowboy Neal (how could a guy with a name like that not be queer?) and Emmett will be coming along soon. Please join us!
Love,
Lord Hemos the Gay
THE END.
Send comments to billgates@ILOVESPAM.evilemail.com. Thanks.
All generalizations are false.
Re:2.4 still not perfect and SuSe still SuSe. (Score:1)
Go on then - explain that one before I beat you over the head with Redhats hideous
SuSEs config bears more of a relation to Solaris, Tru64, HP-UX and *BSD setups than many linux dists. It may not like rpms made for redhat systems, but at least their config setup makes sense to people from non redhatland.
As an aside - maybe your Maestro card is faulty? That doesn't sound healthy at all!
Re:Flame bait! (Score:1)
Not a single person, besides myself, has asked how socially or environmentally conscious any of these companies or organizations are. Even when the Slashdot population can manage to grasp the concept of "social consciousness" and "social obligations", their understanding usually goes no farther than the limits of the Free Software community.
I don't know why everyone reading Slashdot seems to have such a narrow, self-centered view of the world, but I certainly get frustrated by it all the time.
Thanks a lot (Score:1)
Re:How Hemos Got His Groove Back (Score:1)
Re: What should they do else?!? (Score:3)
- just choose some default install mode and you'll get zillions of megabytes full of redundant crap you'll mostly never use
- do it efficiently but it will take hours remove packages you actually don't want and to resolve any dependencies.
So, yes, I could just avoid to install any beta package that I don't want but why should I care when the Caldera eDesktop will just make a clean an stable install of what I need ?(And I don't tell about yast bug^H^H^Hissues...)
Else, they should follow their motto which is to bring Linux to the non technical.
How ?
By thinking configuraiton-wise instead of volume-wise.
Since 6.4 I have usually been disappointed by SuSe... I seriously wonder if I'll ever try their distrib anymore and my final point on this article is that kernel 2.4 is not the right thing to announce to the community.
They'd rather announce that they stabilized their distro and made it simple.
--
Re:Wot no 2.4 distros ? (Score:1)
Note I am not saying that the day 2.4.0 comes out that I would release a distribution. But I would release one after a few weeks of testing. preceded by 2 years of testing whilst the development of 2.4.0 was performed in the 2.3.x chain.
Mandrake did this immediately (Score:1)
signature smigmature
Re:Thanks a lot (Score:1)
I think you are smoking crack.
see your point but... (Score:1)
Ok, but they all are a nightmare... Ever tried Solaris?
>just choose some default install mode and you'll get zillions of megabytes full of redundant crap you'll mostly never use
Well, yeah, that's what a default install is all about...
>So, yes, I could just avoid to install any beta package that I don't want
Why should you? You can even keep your current install, I am sure it has got all the stable software you need.
>but why should I care when the Caldera eDesktop will just make a clean an stable install of what I need ?
Ok, why should you care? If it works for you, good for you. And why should SuSE care about what you care?
>Else, they should follow their motto which is to bring Linux to the non technical. ;o)
Since when is that their moto? This is Microsoft's moto (just replace Linux with Technology
I always thought their moto was: put everything on the CD, get recent versions, poeple will buy it and get a newer version in one year. Let's just be the best at doing that.
I know it works for me...
Re:Congratulations and a question (Score:1)
Re:Debian GNU/Linux and 2.4 (Score:2)
Re:Flame bait! (Score:1)
Go read post 49. Yours is post 50 and 3 minutes later so you could have missed it.
Let's see how well you argue complex moral issues. Moderators may flag this as offtopic, but if Slashdot is to keep its focus, news for nerds, stuff that matters, we have to stop debates going offtopic by challenging people who take them offtopic (mea culpa?). You think your view matters, I wouldn't doubt your commitment, so here goes.
Your post (#8) says SuSE should donate to enlightened causes, including animal rights groups. Ella is a pet cat. There are anecdotal stories of how experiments on new born kittens determined that the visual system is conditioned at a very early age, as a consequence operations to correct a squint in humans now take place almost immediately after birth, whereas before it was felt appropriate to wait a while.
I can't verify the anecdote, but I did some digging around, and I came across this [lww.com]
As Hubel and Wiesel first observed in the 1960s 56, closing one eye in a kitten during its early postnatal development profoundly disrupted the pattern of ODC; the eye that had visual input dominated the cortex, whereas the eye that had been closed lost its connections.
I couldn't do this to a kitten, nor could I condemn a human to suffer a squint. My point is that issues like this are complex and subtle.
Slashdot suffers when people take simplistic moral positions that are tangential to the topic. Just because an issue is worthy, doesn't mean you should introsuce it into every discussion.
A tip for SuSE newbies... (Score:2)
psxndc
Actually, since the export stuff has been lightened, does anyone out there know if they'll be including OpenSSH and so forth on the US CD's in the next release (OpenBSD does it)??
Denial isn't just a river in Egypt (Score:2)
These are both terrible rationalizations.
Let's take cats, since you obviously "own" one. Cats are, by nature, solitary hunters. In your house, your cat is kept in an environment artificially free of prey, given poor imitations of real meat at your whim several times per day, subjected to an endless succession of rewards and punishments dispensed according to the byzantine system of social conventions governing proper conduct in human households, and will grow fat and lazy and die painfully of heart disease or some similar ailment.
What kind of life is this?
I won't suggest that, at this point, you simply turn your cat out on to the street: human cities may or may not be great places for cats to live on their own, and they simply can't support all the cats that are owned today. What you can do, though, is refuse to buy any more cats or breed the ones you already have: the fewer pets that are born into misery, the closer we are to being able to free the last pets into an environment that can sustain them.
Re:better formatted as text, I guess. (Score:1)
And it's not because they have not got money, just because $60000 pound for free software is just not a clever idea. If you try to get Linux installed on many systems, you would probably make your own config and save it? No?
Anyway, concerning their statements, they are marketing stuff...
And one last, thing, for someone who criticizes them so much, you have got lot's of their distribution. Did you buy them all or just downloaded them? Just curious...
Re:A tip for SuSE newbies... (Score:1)
Re:I want a 1.0 kernel too (Score:1)
Nick "Ye Olde Slackware Pharte" Driver
Re:Yeah, and? (Score:2)
I used to work for a company selling Banyan software in the UK. We had many customers, and a lot of them ran as a default installtion, with customisable parameters set at the default (caching and buffers - nothing was dynamically allocated on these systems), and often no patches (security, performance or other) applied.
People are lazy when it comes to installing servers. They take as little time as possible to install, and selecting default installations is quite common, just to save time. Optimasation for performance, from tweaking hardware parameters to removing redundant daemons, is often missed out.
Re:Mandrake @ 2.4 (Score:1)
Re:Where is the 2.4 RPM from Red Hat? (Score:1)
Debian GNU/Linux and 2.4 (Score:5)
DebianPlanet [debianplanet.org]
somewhat relevant: Redhat and 2.4 (Score:2)
IMHO Redhat 7 and 2.4 could be a killer combo if they do it right.
Re:2.4 still not perfect and SuSe still SuSe. (Score:2)
At least with these ones I can see what I am doing and I don't have any buggy yast effect to workaround.
It rocks under BeOS, Linux 2.2.18 and win*.*...
I guess the 2.4 driver is not ok. And this is the reason I advice laptop'ed users not to use it (we got the same situation on several different-branded laptops, here.)
--
Re:Interesting (Score:3)
Well, they do: SuSE Linux 7.1 will use the init scheme defined in the LSB spec [linuxbase.org].
Re:Well... (Score:1)
i shun redhat since i'm still a linux newbie and most of the security news i hear about linuxc are red hat related... i would like to avoid having to be on constant alert about such things
i dunno about slack but from what i know abotu debian it's like the slowest distro cause of their extensive test cycle right?
Re: What should they do else?!? (Score:1)
Okay, . . . just for the sake of argument, let's say you do a full SuSE install of 3+ gigs on your 40 gig HD . . . the whole enchilada, with every nook and cranny of cruft in the CDRom.
Then, you install _every available linux package in the known universe_, even those that don't compile, leaving your drive full of useless tar files.
Then, you hit the background sites, download the full propaganda archive, filling the HD with top-heavy graphics.
How much of the HD have we used, at this point? 8, 10 gigs? That's 1/4 of the space of this, by today's standards, fairly conservatively sized hard drive.
Slamming a distro for cruft is a dead issue, with drives of today's sizes. How could a few additional gigs of packages lower the efficiency of a distro, and steal precious space from the drive? SuSE's strenght lies in its provision of little known and obscure packages that do incredibly, incredibly cool things. It's a trip to play with them on a cold winter night, and explore unusual sectors of the UNIX universe.
2.4 is not the default - Are you sure? (Score:1)
Anyway, does it really matter which one is the default? Are there really many people who take a distribution, install the default kernel and are done with it? I hope not!
I believe what motivate people to buy a distro is to have the option to install recent versions of the software they want and that the system stays easy to upgrade and fiddle with...Or has the "dumbing" of the Linux community already happened?!?
Re:see your point but... (Score:1)
--
Re:2.4 is not the default - Are you sure? (Score:2)
Not from an engineering perspective, but it sure makes this piece of news irrelevant, since:
Since they'll also be including a 2.2 kernel "in parallel," this isn't totally earthshaking (some other distros have been shipping 2.2 stock and 2.4 optional Ib>for a little while), but it certainly is welcome news that SuSE is willing to reverse that order.
Re:Suse Distro (Score:4)
Yes, it is extremely poular, to the point that if a linux distro is included with a book, mag, etc. it usually means SuSE.
Yes, there is some great effort towards localization (mostly docs, but ISDN support was a very strong point for them for some time).
But they use that ugly proprietary yast thing the impact of which is not to be underestimated - a central configuration file is just plain wrong, for example. This is a M$-like abomination. I prefer Linux over the M$-crap for its continuous/steady learning curve ("steep" leads to misunderstandings), meaning there isnt such a great gap in configuration between "clickable" and "arcane". Yast is the opposite. Either it knows about what you want to to, or it will break it, unless you disable it, leaving the SuSE-documented paths, entering normal use ("hey, is this still a SuSE? I disabled yast..."). Every time I recommend it to one of my friends (because they do not understand enough english to RTFM in it) I hate myself for it.
Kiwaiti
Re:You have got to be kidding. (Score:1)
There is too much stuff out there that runs on Windows, especially in the commercial realm, to seriously consider the alternatives excepting their niches. Unless you need one of these components, there is no reason to make trouble for yourself.
Now, I don't believe that statement, and I doubt you believe it either... but it's a common argument. Remember, folks, nobody ever got fired for choosing IBM ^WMicrosoft ^WRed Hat.
Re:Denial isn't just a river in Egypt (Score:1)
I'm Ella the Cat. I wasn't bought, neither was my sister from the next litter. If no-one took us in, maybe we'd have been turned out on the streets of urban SE London, far from where I live now. I was the runt of a litter and AFAIK the last one alive. I've been sterilised after going on heat once, which, admittedly, I had no choice about. I could have gone off someplace else any time I wanted. I live on biscuits on vetinary advice.
I'm not owned and I'm not as dumb as you make me or my owner out to be. Being anthropomorphised is the least of my worries.
Re:I'm There (Score:1)
Re:First Impressions (Score:1)
Of course, I have the RH7.0 shipped kernel as a LILO item, so I can go back if things get bad. But as it is, 2.4.0 sees my weird (docking station) USB setup, my non-standard APM (no APM, but no crashes either), allows XFree to load without the interesting but distressing screen burn look...
Re:First Impressions (Score:1)
If you dont think they are monopolistic, then you should open your eyes and read what is happening with the '.Net" and C# stuff.
It is sooo sad to see valid competition unfairly hacked down by the supreme overlord (Bill Gates)!!
Jon
Re:Wot no 2.4 distros ? (Score:2)
but "merely" a decision by Linus that there
is no more major shakeups or (binary) interface
changes in this kernel series.
Thus he released 2.4.0 in order to enlarge the
user base and get the (inevitable) bugs sorted
out. He wrote as much in his release note.
Regards,
Rasmus
Wot no 2.4 distros ? (Score:4)
So why the slow take up ?
Obviously there may be a couple of problems with package incompatibility with the new kernel, for example with the rearrangement of
I think that in some respects developers and distributers are not really taking full advantage of the openness of kernel development.
2.4 is not the default (Score:4)
This is not correct, 2.2 will still be the default. However, the user can select 2.4 during the initial installation, and can choose the kernel version on bootup.
Re:2.4 still not perfect and SuSe still SuSe. (Score:1)
Of course - if they are going to start shipping it they become responsible for some level of support - so maybe they'll have to fix the Maestro drivers when the problem is reported to them, and funnel the fixes back to the author?
Re:still-cute? (Score:2)
All generalizations are false.