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Vista Vs. Gutsy Gibbon

Posted by kdawson on Tue Oct 23, 2007 05:22 PM
from the difference-in-philosophy dept.
ricegf writes in with the account of one Rupert Goodwins writing in ZDNet UK. Goodwins has 7 computers running various versions of Windows and Linux, and explains why he chooses to do most of his work on the Gibbon. "So here's the funny thing. I've used Windows since 1.0. I've lived through the bad times of Windows/386 and ME, and the good times of NT 3.51 and 2K. I know XP if not backwards, then with a degree of familiarity that only middle-aged co-dependents can afford each other... Then how come I'm so much more at home with Ubuntu than Vista? It boils down to one abiding impression: Ubuntu goes out of its way to get out of your way... Vista goes out of its way to be Vista and enforce the Vista way."

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  • Another one by xaxa (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @05:25PM
  • I agree (Score:5, Interesting)

    by LinuxGeek (6139) * <linuxgeek.djand@com> on Tuesday October 23, @05:29PM (#21092467)
    My laptop came with Vista and installed Ubuntu right after purchase. I use Ubuntu much more than my legally purchased windows copy, probably about 10:1 in favor of linux because vista pops up dialog boxes for way too much stuff. For instance, every boot creates about 10 dialog boxes that need to be confirmed. My cpu monitoring app, norton antivirus, etc... all have to be given permission to run, it really pisses me off. I haven't found a way to give permanent permission to those apps without turning UAE off, which strips out some very necessary protection. FU Microsoft.
    • Re:I agree (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 23, @05:37PM (#21092565)
      Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon getting out of your way to let you work: $0

      Windows Vista video ad playing under a slashdot article favouring Linux over Windows: Priceless
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:I agree by dedazo (Score:3) Tuesday October 23, @05:43PM
      • Re:I agree by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @05:47PM
        • Re:I agree (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Zebra_X (13249) on Tuesday October 23, @05:53PM (#21092759)
          The button does what you configure it to do. The other options are available on the right arrow.
          [ Parent ]
          • Re:I agree by r3m0t (Score:3) Wednesday October 24, @06:39AM
            • Re:I agree by sharkey (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @07:59AM
              • Re:I agree by r3m0t (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @08:08AM
          • Re:I agree by kat_skan (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @09:27AM
            • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:I agree by Daengbo (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @06:05PM
        • Re:I agree (Score:5, Insightful)

          by kcbrown (7426) <slashdot@sysexperts.com> on Tuesday October 23, @07:23PM (#21093771)

          I, too keep hearing stories about how bad Vista is, and not just from Slashdot. Cranky Geeks (not a pro-Linux show) went on for five minutes last week about how useless it is.

          Still, I walk into any computer store and see only Vista machines for meters and meters. The whole thinig confuses me.;)

          It's not confusing at all. What you're seeing is the direct result of Microsoft really being in a monopoly position. People can deny it all they want ("Microsoft doesn't have 100% of the desktop, so they can't be a monopoly!!"), but Microsoft's ability to bend the market against the wishes of the customer and the retailer is precisely what makes them a monopoly.

          Your observation is just confirmation of that.

          [ Parent ]
        • Re:I agree by UncleTogie (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @08:27PM
          • Re:I agree by Daengbo (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @08:47PM
        • This is a confirmed bug. by NekoYasha (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @11:39AM
      • It's hilarious that he can't seem to figure out how to shut down the computer... But these "opinion articles" with their "I can't be bothered to figure out a slightly different Control Panel - instead, I switched operating systems!" matra are just annoying and stupid.

        His point isn't that he couldn't figure it out, it's just that things were "arbitrarily different" - changed for the point of change rather than any great enhancement. Sure he could figure out a different Control Panel, but it's annoying to have to do that for no actual gain.

        I think what we're actually seeing here is people who don't have any particular need for the unique strengths of Windows (and it does have some) and could do well with any of the alternative mainstream OSs. See, they already "switched operating systems" going from XP to Vista, and the feedback I'm hearing is that the effort of relearning familiar things makes the jump from XP to Ubuntu seem no worse. Actually, I even get the impression that for some the idea of injecting some excitement into their computer usage by exploring a new OS with different strengths and weeknesses is quite attractive compared to relearning Windows in order to go back to what they already new.

        Am I way off the mark here? I've been using Debian then Ubuntu near exclusively for 6 years so I'm actually quite looking forward to having a play with Vista just to see if there's anything about a new Microsoft OS that I find attractive. I installed XP on a machine for my sister 3 weeks ago and it took 4 hours worth of downloading drivers and updates just to get to the stage where I could start installing apps (c.f. Ubuntu less than 1 hour for a fully loaded OS+apps) so I'm pretty sure XP is of no value to me from the 'enjoying using the computer' viewpoint unless I need to run some Windows-only software.

        If you use a computer for fun, or for work but like to have fun, Ubuntu is great. Quick to install on new hardware, new release every 6 months with new features, improvements and eye candy if you like that sort of thing. Loads of little apps to choose between for virtually any task, all ready to install from official repositories, properly signed etc.

        [ Parent ]
        • Re:I agree by vux984 (Score:3) Tuesday October 23, @06:40PM
          • Re:I agree by m94mni (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @06:48PM
            • Re:I agree by vux984 (Score:3) Tuesday October 23, @07:16PM
              • Re:I agree by DaveWick79 (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @09:47PM
              • Re:I agree by vux984 (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @12:34AM
              • Re:I agree by DaveWick79 (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @09:52AM
          • Re:I agree by uglyduckling (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @07:08PM
            • Re:I agree by vux984 (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @08:14PM
              • Re:I agree by fractoid (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @10:19PM
              • Re:I agree by Nevyn (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @10:29PM
              • Re:I agree by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @10:46PM
              • Re:I agree (Score:4, Insightful)

                If you had the latest version of XP it would have been a fairer comparison. It takes me less than half an hour to patch from a recent SP2 disc.


                Well, a slipstreamed disk is a third-party modification, so I think it's a little bit shakey using it as a comparison. I did try to create one a year ago but found it tediously difficult command-line sourcery (ironically what people often accuse Linux of) so I gave up. I've found a little utility now so I'll give it a go. I do appreciate that if I walked into a shop and bought a boxed XP I would get an SP2 disk, but then that would cost me a lot of money to be able to easily install and OS I already own.

                Your complaint against Vista is that its expensive? Really?

                Yes - really. I have piles of old boxes sitting around with XP license stickers on them. Vista will cost me money, big money that I don't have. Remember that I'm talking about what these OSs mean to me. Remember that the convesation started over frustration about articles where people change to Linux because they don't like Vista and I'm trying to explain why, from my point of view, some people might want to do that.

                Your last compaint against vista is absurd: that its 'different than XP'. Well, la-di-da. Ubuntu is arbitrarily different from XP too, yet you don't complain about that.

                It's not absurd, it's the whole point of the story. Some people feel that Vista has a lot of changes, but not many actual new features from the end-user point of view. Ubuntu cannot be "arbitrarily different" becuase it was never the same in the first place, it's different for at worst historical reasons. Vista started from XP, so each change should be for a good reason, but nevertheless people are looking at XP->Vista and XP->Ubuntu and seeing less difference in the amount of effort each change would take than they had previously believed and seriously thinking of giving Vista a miss.

                Don't forget that in my fist post in this thread I said that I'm actually quite excited about giving Vista a go (I'm getting a boxed Ultimate in a couple of weeks time). I am a biased die-hard Linux fan, although my recent frustrating experience of installing XP was for my sister's Christmas present, so I'm not so far down that path that I don't see the need to let people use what they're comfortable with. What interests me is that I'm hearing XP users say they might be more comfortable with Ubuntu than Vista when the time comes to make the switch. Microsoft should be very worried about that.

                [ Parent ]
              • Re:I agree by Loosifur (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @09:20AM
              • Re:I agree by vux984 (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @12:46AM
              • Re:I agree by basshedz2 (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @04:04AM
              • Re:I agree by DivineGod (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @04:23AM
              • Re:I agree by vux984 (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @04:35AM
              • Re:I agree by Bert64 (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @05:58AM
              • Re:I agree by MikShapi (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @06:13AM
              • Re:I agree by rbochan (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @07:39AM
              • Re:I agree by poser101 (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @11:53AM
              • Re:I agree by Rary (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @12:36PM
              • Re:I agree by vux984 (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @01:56PM
              • Re:I agree by vux984 (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @06:42PM
              • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
            • Re:Bundling by Nevyn (Score:3) Tuesday October 23, @10:27PM
              • Re:Bundling by kaizokuace (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @09:09AM
            • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
          • Re:I agree by r3m0t (Score:3) Tuesday October 23, @07:15PM
            • Re:I agree by vux984 (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @07:29PM
              • Re:I agree by ILongForDarkness (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @07:48PM
              • Re:I agree by mspohr (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @04:52AM
          • Ubuntu won out based on price by weighn (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @10:41PM
          • Defeat in Detail (Score:5, Insightful)

            by turing_m (1030530) on Tuesday October 23, @10:44PM (#21095377)
            "She was already using Firefox / OpenOffice / Gaim so for her the differences were pretty nominal."

            And that's the key. Switching operating systems is a big deal if it means switching your entire personal software collection at once, and that's what a lot of people try to do and fail. They switch, get culture shock, and retreat back to XP.

            If you can figure out which applications you use and then convert yourself to a FOSS program, one by one, then by the time you have finished you can install Ubuntu Gutsy and the rest of your problems will be restricted to driver issues. I don't know why I didn't think of doing it like that earlier, it seems so obvious now.
            [ Parent ]
          • Re:I agree by clickety6 (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @02:25AM
          • Re:I agree by node 3 (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @06:59AM
        • Re:I agree by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @06:50PM
          • Re:I agree by ConceptJunkie (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @12:48PM
            • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
        • Re:I agree by Poromenos1 (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @07:20PM
          • Re:I agree by Corporate Troll (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @05:30AM
            • Re:I agree by Poromenos1 (Score:2) Saturday October 27, @06:09PM
          • Re:I agree by Bert64 (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @07:33AM
            • Re:I agree by Allador (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @11:21AM
              • Re:I agree by Bert64 (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @12:23PM
          • MOD PARENT UP by BenEnglishAtHome (Score:2) Thursday October 25, @12:40PM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
        • Re:I agree by Risen888 (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @10:13PM
        • Re:I agree by weicco (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @11:18PM
          • Re:I agree by rjames13 (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @04:36AM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
        • Re:I agree by AP31R0N (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @07:31AM
          • Re:I agree by kionel (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @10:19AM
        • Re:I agree by Foofoobar (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @08:42AM
        • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:I agree by hedwards (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @06:22PM
        • Re:I agree by Khuffie (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @10:11PM
          • Re:I agree by hedwards (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @10:36PM
      • Re:I agree by Shuh (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @06:38PM
        • Re:I agree (Score:4, Informative)

          by budgenator (254554) on Tuesday October 23, @07:22PM (#21093765)
          (Last Journal: Sunday January 28 2007, @05:20PM)
          Jerry Pournelle was great, I always read his column first, and computer companies always sent him equipment and software to review because Jerry could break anything, and if your stuff could survive Chaos Manner, you were made. He's on the web at Chaos Manor Reviews [chaosmanorreviews.com] if your jonesing for a fix of Jerry.
          [ Parent ]
      • Re:I agree by Neuropol (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @06:38PM
      • Re:I agree by monkeySauce (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @07:06PM
        • Re:I agree by dedazo (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @07:35PM
          • Re:I agree by monkeySauce (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @09:37PM
            • Re:I agree by Allador (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @11:28AM
              • Re:I agree by monkeySauce (Score:2) Thursday October 25, @01:32AM
        • Re:I agree by Corporate Troll (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @05:38AM
      • Re:I agree by danlyke (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @07:09PM
      • Re:I agree by sunahama (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @07:25PM
      • Re:I agree by guhknew (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @07:26PM
      • Re:I agree by pherthyl (Score:3) Tuesday October 23, @07:55PM
      • Re:I agree by Das Modell (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @08:30PM
        • Re:I agree by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @12:01AM
          • Re:I agree by Das Modell (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @12:30AM
      • Re:I agree by Endo13 (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @08:42PM
      • Re:I agree by remitaylor (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @08:45PM
        • Re:I agree by remitaylor (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @08:54PM
      • I'm with you on all the above by MikShapi (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @11:57PM
      • Re:I agree by WoollyMittens (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @01:17AM
      • Re:I agree by Technician (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @02:05AM
      • Re:I agree by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @02:38AM
        • Re:I agree by Stevecrox (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @03:31PM
      • Re:I agree by troff (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @04:38AM
      • Re:I agree by thatwouldbeme (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @02:41PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:I agree by DAldredge (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @05:43PM
      • Re:I agree by balthan (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @07:37PM
    • Re:I agree by rustalot42684 (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @05:46PM
      • Re:I agree by Mr Z (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @11:46PM
    • Re:I agree by B3ryllium (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @05:50PM
      • Re:I agree by Gordo_1 (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @06:01PM
      • Re:I agree by sqrt(2) (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @06:29PM
        • Re:I agree by ragefan (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @06:54PM
        • Re:I agree by trolltalk.com (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @06:54PM
          • Re:I agree by sqrt(2) (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @07:06PM
            • Re:I agree by trolltalk.com (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @09:05PM
              • Re:I agree by sqrt(2) (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @09:20PM
              • Re:I agree by randomencounter (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @11:13AM
            • Re:I agree by Winckle (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @09:10PM
        • Re:I agree by Kalriath (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @07:16PM
        • Re:I agree by B3ryllium (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @08:15PM
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    • Aside (Score:5, Informative)

      by IthnkImParanoid (410494) on Tuesday October 23, @05:55PM (#21092775)
      In my experience there's really no reason to run Norton antivirus, unless you enjoy giving your operating system the equivalent of 300 pound cell mate named Bubba. Between Avast!, AVG, Clamwin, Panda, and any other free antivirus software out there, there's got to be something to replace Norton.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Aside (Score:5, Interesting)

        by mstahl (701501) on Tuesday October 23, @06:37PM (#21093287)
        (http://whiskeyandtheweb.blogspot.com/)

        Agreed. I used to have a job cleaning viruses and spyware and such off of students' laptops at a university campus, which gave me a lot of insight into what not to buy and which AV programs not to trust. There were soooooooooooo many students, faculty, and staff who had entrusted their box entirely to Norton, and it was just an epic fail every single time—even when it was fully up-to-date. The whole of the entire computer security industry would be in Defcon 4 about some virus that'd been out for a week and Norton would still be on its smoke break. Weak.

        Between Avast!, AVG, Clamwin, Panda, and any other free antivirus software out there, there's got to be something to replace Norton.

        "Avast!"? Sounds awesome, if a touch nautical.... What struck me the most when I was working at Resnet was how many free programs there were that were extremely effective (especially if used together), almost always catching files that Norton missed entirely. Side note: it's really scary that a lot of these antivirus programs were web-based, and somehow Windows is perfectly okay having web applications that are capable of deleting files, analyzing the content of local files, accessing the registry.... Really scary. Way to go on that security model thing, Microsoft!

        [ Parent ]
        • Re:Aside by Cl1mh4224rd (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @09:03PM
          • Re:Aside by mstahl (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @09:21PM
            • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
          • Re:Aside by quux4 (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @08:18AM
        • Re:Aside by rbochan (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @07:44AM
        • Re:Aside by krytor (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @08:01AM
          • Re:Aside by KingOfGod (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @09:40AM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Aside by MrCrassic (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @08:25PM
      • Re:Aside by lucas teh geek (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @08:52PM
      • Re:Aside by Khuffie (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @10:16PM
        • Re:Aside by IthnkImParanoid (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @11:07PM
          • Re:Aside by Khuffie (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @11:11PM
        • Re:Aside by Ginger Unicorn (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @05:10AM
          • Re:Aside by Khuffie (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @07:28AM
        • Just disable the popup... by Joce640k (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @06:48AM
      • Re:Aside by Billly Gates (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @01:49AM
      • Re:Aside by gr8dude (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @02:29AM
      • Re:Aside by trifish (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @03:49AM
      • Re:Aside by Ginger Unicorn (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @05:25AM
      • Re:Aside by GogglesPisano (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @09:17AM
      • Re:Aside by budgenator (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @07:28PM
      • Re:Aside by ozmanjusri (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @10:05PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:I agree by General_Crespin (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @06:06PM
    • Re:I agree (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Miltazar (1100457) on Tuesday October 23, @06:13PM (#21093031)
      This is definitely not a popular opinion around here but here goes. I've used Vista, along with every other Windows OS ever to haunt our doorstep. I've also used many Linux distro's including Ubuntu Gutsy, Debian(personal preference of the Linux variety), Gentoo, Fedora, Redhat, CentOS, etc. I've been using Vista both at work and at home for about half a year now, and I have absolutely no problem with it.

      Despite all the talk of new user friendliness with Ubuntu Gutsy I've yet to see it. My MXL USB Mic doesn't just work when I plug it in. I have to fiddle around with settings for a while. At work, I can't just easily interface with our Active Directory(yes its MS, but its what we use). Sure I've gotten all that working, but it took me a lot of searching and tweaking. Vista may have driver problems, but I've never encountered any major ones. With Linux however, every install is a new driver issue. When it comes down to it, Vista just works. Yes, I can get Linux working with everything, but I don't want to have to spend all that time on an OS when I can just use windows.

      Also as a gamer I'm also unable to permanently switch to Linux. Wine works for some, but its just not good enough. I love Linux, but for now it just isn't ready to be my permanent OS. Despite all this trouble with Vista I hear about, I've yet to experience any of it. It runs perfectly on my machine.

      When Linux has a dominant share of the market place, and games are put out strictly for Linux, then I'll switch.
      Until then, Microsoft will still be king.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:I agree by PitaBred (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @06:21PM
        • Re:I agree by 1001011010110101 (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @07:34PM
          • Re:I agree by ozmanjusri (Score:3) Tuesday October 23, @10:10PM
          • Re:I agree by 1001011010110101 (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @08:41AM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:I agree by LingNoi (Score:3) Tuesday October 23, @06:48PM
        • Re:I agree by turing_m (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @10:23PM
        • Re:I agree by Miltazar (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @10:17AM
        • Re:I agree by Bloodoflethe (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @11:14AM
      • Re:I agree by gfxguy (Score:3) Tuesday October 23, @07:03PM
      • Re:I agree by kwandar (Score:3) Tuesday October 23, @08:44PM
        • Re:I agree by kwandar (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @08:37AM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:I agree by iabervon (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @11:22PM
      • Re:I agree by Velaki (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @07:38AM
        • Re:I agree by kionel (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @10:31AM
          • Re:I agree by Velaki (Score:1) Saturday October 27, @07:17PM
      • But what is the advantage over XP or Win2K? by walterbyrd (Score:3) Wednesday October 24, @10:48AM
      • Re:I agree by textureglitch (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @01:49PM
      • Re:I agree by aztektum (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @02:59PM
        • Re:I agree by Miltazar (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @03:30PM
      • Re:I agree by Risen888 (Score:3) Wednesday October 24, @04:44PM
      • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:I agree by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @06:29PM
      • Re:I agree by Kalriath (Score:3) Tuesday October 23, @07:41PM
    • Re:I agree by The MAZZTer (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @07:21PM
    • Re:I agree by guabah (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @08:34PM
    • Re:I agree by Mr Z (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @11:04PM
      • Re:I agree by Mr Z (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @11:06PM
      • Re:I agree by bioglaze (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @08:23AM
    • Re:I agree by Anpheus (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @01:44AM
    • Re:I agree by hansraj (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @04:03AM
    • Re:I agree by Computershack (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @05:04AM
    • Re:I agree by Das Modell (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @07:36AM
      • Re:I agree by LingNoi (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @08:49AM
        • Re:I agree by Das Modell (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @09:21AM
    • Re:I agree by Actually, I do RTFA (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @09:54AM
    • Re:I agree by NVP_Radical_Dreamer (Score:1) Wednesday October 24, @09:56AM
    • Re:"The greeter application appears to be crashing by uglyduckling (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @06:20PM
    • Re:"The greeter application appears to be crashing by LingNoi (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @06:23PM
    • Re:"The greeter application appears to be crashing by jguthrie (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @06:33PM
    • Re:"The greeter application appears to be crashing by shellbeach (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @06:45PM
    • Re:UAE ... necessary? by MikShapi (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @06:29AM
    • 10 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Easy by El Lobo (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @05:32PM
    • Re:Easy (Score:5, Insightful)

      by kebes (861706) on Tuesday October 23, @05:57PM (#21092805)
      (Last Journal: Monday January 08 2007, @02:45PM)

      Everybody should use the system they like and stop preaching and advocating. use trhe TOOL you like, not the bible you read.
      Fair enough. However your post is somewhat dismissive, as if you're implying "I don't see the point of these kinds of articles" (if I'm putting words in your mouth, I apologize). To respond to that hypothetical implication: the point of such discussions is that there has to be some way for people to learn about alternatives.

      I, for one, was once at a point where I was quite frustrated with my (Windows) experience. Only because people bothered to mention alternatives did I eventually discover that OSX and Linux solved many of the problems I was having.

      As you can tell, I'm now a Linux user, so as you say my opinion is inherently biased towards enjoying Linux. So perhaps I gloss over some of the troubles I had along my migration path to Linux. Yet despite that, the experiences (both positive and negative) of people who have legitimately tried multiple operating systems are valuable to others. In fact, it's rather difficult to claim that the majority of Windows users are actually using "the right tool" because very few of them are aware of (much less have evaluated) the alternate tools out there. For many of them, their needs might actually be better served by a non-Windows OS.

      I can understand a dislike of evangelical attempts to convert people... but there's nothing inherently wrong with describing, or even advocating, an alternative.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Easy by El Lobo (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @07:00PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Easy by turing_m (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @10:12PM
    • Re:Easy by hyades1 (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @08:33PM
    • Not Easy, 90% Only See Windoze. by Erris (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @09:45PM
    • Re:Easy by blitziod (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @09:46PM
      • Re:Easy by SiChemist (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @02:04PM
    • Re:Easy by uglyduckling (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @06:35PM
      • Re:Easy by Kalriath (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @07:43PM
    • Re:Easy by El Lobo (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @07:18PM
    • Re:Easy by grassy_knoll (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @08:32PM
      • Re:Easy by weighn (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @10:54PM
    • Re:Easy by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @09:18PM
    • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • by BronsCon (927697) on Tuesday October 23, @05:33PM (#21092519)
    like "First Post"

    But this insight came out instead.

    To the end-user, Windows has "security through obstruction", which annoys and gets disabled. To that same end-user, Linux has "security through obscurity", which stays out of the way.

    Yes, I know, open source, all the flaws are right there for everyone to see, not obscured at all. That's not what the end-user sees. The end-user just knows that it's more secure because that's what their geek friend told them; they never see why, they never care why and they never need bother with it. This is a good thing. What doesn't annoy them enough that they go out of their way to disable... I'm sure you see where I'm going with this.

    Let's review what we've learned so far this year:
    Linux - driver issues. Vista - driver issues.
    Linux - learning curve. Vista - learning curve.
    Linux - secure until you work around the security in the name of convenience. Vista - secure until you work around the security in the name of convenience.
    Linux - annoying until you learn it. Vista - annoying until you learn it AND disable the security features.
  • My take on it (Score:5, Interesting)

    by BlueParrot (965239) on Tuesday October 23, @05:34PM (#21092525)
    Some time ago I accidentally fried my motherboard, so, time to get a new computer. My dad's job was throwing out an "old" machine. The new machine was a bit worse than my original one. It didn't have DDR2 memory, it used a Radeon 9200 rather than my nVidia card, the CPU was an old Pentium 4 rather than my faster AMD chip, and the integrated soundcard I had never heard of.

    Anyway, I connect my HD which had Ubuntu Edgy installed on it, boot up. X complains about the video card so I change "nvidia" to "ati" in xorg.conf, type: startx, and 2 minutes latter I am reading my mail in thunderbird.

    But you know, I'm sure Vista would perfectly well manage me changing ALL hardware except the HD, running on a P4 with 384MB SDRAM, and be up and running without even a reboot. Oh, and does Aero support virtual desktops yet?

    Seriously, given the price and system requirements, Vista is a joke.

    • Re:My take on it (Score:4, Informative)

      by lattyware (934246) on Tuesday October 23, @05:44PM (#21092645)
      (http://www.lattyware.co.uk/ | Last Journal: Sunday November 27 2005, @05:00PM)
      And with Gutsy, and it's 'never crash out to bash' ideology, and the x-settings manager that will start if x crashes, you now would not even need to be an intelligent user in this case with Gutsy to get it to work. It's a long-awaited idea, and one that'll be gladly received. It works well too, in 99% of situations. Of course there are some hardware setups that would not work even in this 'safe-mode' style of graphics setup - but they are very few and far between - and anyone using them will probably be able to solve it at a bash prompt, and this is a huge step forward. I've laughed at people for saying Windows is easier. Bull. Windows is more familiar, maybe. But Linux has now been made so much more easy than windows. Installing and using Vista for gaming after more than a year of Linux only use was hell.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:My take on it by Blahbooboo3 (Score:2) Tuesday October 23, @05:49PM
    • Re:My take on it by colourmyeyes (Score:1) Tuesday October 23, @07:41PM
    • Re:My take on it by mks113 (Score:2) Wednesday October 24, @08:35AM
    • Re:My take on it (Score:5, Insightful)

      by BlueParrot (965239) on Tuesday October 23, @06:07PM (#21092953)

      The problem with you story is that your average "End LUser" is not going to be able to edit the xorg.conf using vi, and even if they could, probably wouldn't know to change "nvidia" to "ati". The CLI is a bit beyond what most people care to know. ...
      Until Ubuntu or whatever distro user can do every single thing in the GUI that they can do through the CLI, Window will have an advantage. MS writes Windows with a GUI in mind from the ground up. Linux is designed to work with or without a GUI. On rare occasion, such as the one you listed here, there will be an absolute need to use the CLI in Linux. Some people just can't handle that.


      Now what a remarkable and amazing coincidence that Gutsy has such a fall-back GUI for fixing broken X sessions. It is almost as if they are working to make it more accessible to non-technical users...
      [