Three MythTV Linux Distros Compared

An anonymous reader writes "Linux.com has a comparison article up looking at three MythTV-focused Linux distributions. The piece looks at Mythdora, Mythbuntu, and KnoppMyth, with an eye towards ease of installation and the actual utility of the install. From the article: 'For regular system maintenance, KnoppMyth simply isn't in the same ballpark as MythBuntu and MythDora. The live CD heritage of Knoppix means you cannot update individual packages, which is fine if you like that, but for an always-on system like a MythTV back end, I'd prefer flexibility and configurability of a mainline distro. When all is said and done, if I were building my TiVo replacement today, I would do it with MythDora. MythBuntu shows a lot of promise, and I will give the final 7.10 release another look (in part because I run Ubuntu on my desktop machines), but it isn't ready yet.'" Linux.com and Slashdot are both owned by SourceForge.

MythDora?

MythSwiper, no MythSwiping!

Oh man...

MythTV for PS3

The PS3 can run Linux but so far it's been regular Linux distributions. MythTV sounds like a natural fit for a device which has practically everything in place to be a kickass multimedia console. It would be cool to see a MythTV dist for the PS3 that boots straight into the UI and also works with any plugged in USB devices like TV tuners.

Re:MythTV for PS3

> any tuner device supported by linux should be usable with mythtv so if you find a USB tuner with linux support you can use it

MythTV is modular. You do the tuning/recording/processing on the backend, which talks to the frontend (display) via the network. These functions can be on the same box, but with the PS3 as a frontend, you would want a separate backend.

http://linuxtv.org/ [linuxtv.org] has info on supported devices. My tuner of choice is the HDHomeRun, a network based dual HD tuner.

Re:MythTV for PS3

> The problem is I don't think there are any USB TV capture devices that work in MythTV.

The PS3 would make a good MythTV frontend (display) system. You're better off using a Linux box as the backend. That way you can still use the PS3 as a game system or Blue-Ray DVD player -- rather than leaving it in Linux mode all the time to record programs. As for tuners. the HDHomeRun is a good network-based HD tuner option.

> I have been using MythTV for something like 4 years now just because there isn't anything as good but I really hate it. It's so freaking slow and buggy. I mean once you have hundreds of recorded shows the thing just slows to a crawl. It takes forever just to delete a program. This all seems totally ridiculous considering the relatively tiny amount of data it is managing. Then there are the bugs like when it gets into some sort of bad state and the menus don't work (you can open the menu but can't select anything). Very poorly written piece of software if you ask me.

It's hard to say what the issue is from that description.

- Slow performance: All the standard Linux tuning applies. MythTV uses MySQL extensively, so tuning that performance is important.
- Slow Delete: File system choice is important. ext* is very slow in deleting files. I use JFS because it deletes almost instantly. In newer MythTV versions, there is an option to do deletes in smaller chunks to avoid this problem on ext* systems.
- I haven't seen bugs like those you described. I use 0.20.1, and it works well. MythTV is not ideal.. setup is difficult, as is configuration.. The menu systems could use some major improvements and configurability. It's definitely the worst DVR going, except for everything else.

hmm

From TFA, it sounds like "Gutsy Gibbon" is more like "Glitchy Goat" as an alpha. I'm kinda curious how it will turn-out after the beta testing is done. I mean, with all the hype and good reviews surrounding Ubuntu, I can see this as dominating the other MythTV-infused distros out there.

As for TFA, bench testing an alpha versus go-live products is hardly fair.

Just my $0.02.

WARNING: Critical problem with out of date distros

Recently the free listings provider for north america (TMS' Zap2it) annouced they will be going offline on Sept 1 - a replacement ($5/month for now, hopefully reducing to $20/year in the future - schedulesdirect.org) is available but only the latest release .20.2 of stable (And -fixes and trunk in snv naturally) support using it.

If you download one of these distros make sure they have updated it with a .20.2 (post mythfilldatabase scheduling fix) otherwise you will not be able to get north american listings.

Anyone have an alternate link?

The hamsters are having trouble keeping up.

Security of Mythdora

I agree with the basic assumption that in terms of "just working," Mythdora is pretty good. My problem with it is a sudo-enabled user with identical login and password. On a fire-walled home setup, I suppose this is less of an issue, but as I had no idea if changing the default password would break functionally, I had to ditch it.

Upside

The good thing about being forced to get a TV is that a condition of me doing so was that I get to install a Myth TV setup. I'm thinking satellite + cable + OTA inputs to a small cluster in the basement, new fibre runs all over the house, speakers in every wall, projectors in hidden drop down ceiling mounts, touch screen controls in every room, integration of every form of entertainment known to man and a user interface that delights and astounds.

By the time I'm finished, of course, it'll be obsolete and I shall have to start over, just like the fourth bridge paint job. Perpetual geeking if you like.

In other news

The Slashdot Botnet has struck down linux.com. According to our sources this botnet is commanded by a cmdrtaco. In a recent interview with "cmdrtaco" he stated "We like to take down sites for fun, it's not so much malicous as just a side effect." We'll keep you updated on new developments as they happen.

A possible source for guide data

There's been some talk about getting a subscription service running for MythTV users; if I recall, the goal was to get it going for $5/month.

Here's an option that could be considered: buy a BeyondTV license from Snapstream, then use your username and password along with a little reverse engineering to login legally to their guide service. BeyondTV's guide data is included with your purchase -- no monthly fees. Currently it costs $70, so after a year it would have paid for itself at the proposed $5/month.

That said, I should say I'm pretty pleased with the actual BeyondTV software, even though it is Windows-based. I spent about 2 weeks trying to get Myth (MythDora) and Freevo to work at all on a pretty vanilla new Dell PC with new hardware reported to be compatible. I downloaded BTV just to see if the hardware was to blame, and after a grand total of 15 minutes, I had a working PVR with multiple tuners. The software is customizable as well, so I can do nightly batch processing like I was planning to do with the Linux box, although the included Xvid transcoding works automatically if you want to do that.

Re:A possible source for guide data

you're pretty out of date - schedulesdirect is up... and they hope to be able to reduce to $20/year eventually. try reading the thread before replying i posted about SD before you posted

MythTV distros over-rated

I don't see what's the point of building a dedicated distro for MythTV. Why reinvent the wheel? Why not use a well-known, established distribution, and just create a software repository with MythTV?
A dedicated distro may be here today, gone tomorrow, if it doesn't build a large enough community. That's not what I expect from the operating system that I'm gonna use on the MythTV server that I will build next month.

I think I'm just going to use CentOS or Ubuntu (the LTS edition - long-term support) and pull MythTV from one of the popular repositories.

Re:MythTV distros over-rated

> I think I'm just going to use CentOS or Ubuntu (the LTS edition - long-term support) and pull MythTV from one of the popular repositories.

Because many of us already tried that and couldn't get it to work. MythTV is one of the worst software I had to set up. It is just wrong to expect an end user for a PVR to even know what a database is, let alone having to set it up and deal with the error messages, even if it something popular such as MySQL. MythTV just needs to be as easy as the commercial packages to setup.

Configure? Yeah. Update? Not so much.

I've been using my MythTV box as my primary media center for over a year and a half now. While I love to make the occasional configuration changes to meet the ever-changing needs of my family, I NEVER update unless I have a very, very good reason. Why? Because at this point I don't want a weekend troubleshooting session because I triggered incompatibilities. I guess that is just me being paranoid, though. I've never had drastic problems with Myth, but I can also attribute that to the fact that I wrote up my requirements, built the machine to them, and left it that way. No surprises! So there are some tradeoffs when using a media distribution like KnoppMyth to build out your MythTV, but sometimes they are really blessings in disguise.

Knoppmyth and updates...

The live CD heritage of Knoppix means you cannot update individual packages, which is fine if you like that, but for an always-on system like a MythTV back end, I'd prefer flexibility and configurability of a mainline distro.

Not sure I understand what he's trying to say here. I run Knoppmyth, and I've never had any trouble upgrading packages (Apache, PHP, mysql, etc.) and installing new ones using apt. It's basically Debian, so anything you can do with Debian you can do with Knoppmyth. Plus the nice thing is it runs well out of the box, so you can do your tweaking and updates later without having a large downtime if you are doing a fresh install.

MythTV Box

Does anyone sell a pre-built, pre-configured MythTV box? I personally have no interest in dealing with the quirks of setting one up, but I'd like to run one. Here's what I'd look for:

• Packaged in the smallest possible, living-room friendly case
• Runs quietly, with good power and heat management
• Plays files off a USB drive and/or over ethernet
• Online zero-effort software updates
• Shouldn't cost a ton more than the cost of the required hardware

If someone does this right I'd think they could have quite a hit on their hands.

Re:MythTV Box

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Commercial_My thTV_System [mythtv.org] is a comprehensive list of pre-built boxes that work well with MythTV

Installing it the painful way...

I'm currently trying to do what the distro should be doing for me; installing layer and application at a time.

Of course, I'm also trying to do this on a system put together from more recent hardware, the m-atx Gigabyte platform GA-MA69GM-S2H Socket which uses AM2 and the AMD 690G Northbridge. And a USB connected ATSC HDTV card.

I'm finding it's a snap to install Ubuntu, LAMP, and MythTV but almost impossible to get any further than configuration. And that is the problem. I can install WinXP and SageTV and have all these components work right now. So it still is the main problem for Linux and any distro - hardware support.

Yes, the larger question still is open versus restricted driver support. But at the end of the day, especially the present day like tonight, I'd rather have my hardware recognize a restricted driver and install it seamlessly than having the "freedom" of an open source driver. If move to open from a restricted, then shouldn't that be the incentive for hardware manufactures to provide these drivers?

mythtv

Like all software under the hippieware® movement expect no help setting it up and mass incompatiblities.

also lets spend the next 50 hours tracking down lib.obscure.o only to end up compiling half the fucking software ever relased under the gpl.

Books on MythTV

I know a book just came out on MythTV: Practical MythTV (http://www.apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=1 0245 [apress.com]) Is it any good? Anybody read it?

Why Mythtv when XBMC exists

I was a MythTV proponent for YEARS. I built my own box, and I've run with both Gentoo and Ubuntu based backends. When my video card blew out last month after 3+ years of constant running (including through some very bad power outages which were hard on the entire houses electrical system) I couldn't afford to replace the video card and motherboard which was also fried.

I pulled the drive and stuck it in the computer in the other room, and decided to try XBox Media Center an my old xbox I had sitting around. To my surprise, XBMC completely blows MythTV out of the water. For about $30 in hardware (the equipment necessary to do the mod, which is entirely software based and done through a memory card and ftp) and 2 hours labor, I was up and running with a user interface that is one of the easiest to use I've ever seen.

It outputs in 720p or 1080i (doesn't have the power to decode actual 720p content without some heavy hardware modding.) It streams all the content over my network, so all the storage is in the office right where I download it in the first place. It uses mplayer, so it can play anything mplayer can. It can do 5.1 sound, plus I can put a ton of emulators on there to play my old super-nes games with actual controllers, including multiplayer.

For about $100 and a bit of searching online, a person could pick up a used XBox and be off and running, as long as they're just looking for a MEDIA CENTER and don't care about PVR capabilities that is.

Re:Why Mythtv when XBMC exists

To my surprise, XBMC completely blows MythTV out of the water.

Weird, I had no idea you could plug a video capture card into an XBox, let alone set up XBMC to use it to record TV. Got any links?

mythweb, mythflash

Mythweb, mythflash serve me well. I watch recorded tv during lunch time at work.

Some comparision....

I started KnoppMyth over 4 years ago, so I'm biased.

The comparison seemed rather dull and uninformed. The installation, default theme and the "running" systems are compared. In the end, it comes to "convenience". This is where the author's lack of information really shines.

To stated that one cannot install additional software on KnoppMyth is wrong. You can install a .deb or install from source. The problem comes in if you want to auto upgrade to the next release (BTW: Neither of the other options supports an auto upgrade functions. MythDora is working on it however.). Whatever additional packages you installed, you'll have to reinstall (R6 will address this). But what do you need to install (other than perhaps pineapple and some codecs ;)? And if you read tjc's guide to using the backup and restore, you'll only have to install those once.

In addition to MythTV and it's official plugins KnoppMyth includes mplayer, xine, webmin (how is that for conveniences?), rrd (hit Apache and see how your system as been performing, seems pretty convenient to me), MythWebFlash, irblaster support and so much more.

In addition to the official themes, we also include most if not all of "Juski's" http://juski.co.uk/ [juski.co.uk]themes are included as well. So while the author didn't like Titivillus, there is nothing stopping him or any user from using any theme. Got an ipod? What to take that show with you? Myth2ipod http://www.myth2ipod.com/ [myth2ipod.com]is include in KnoppMyth. Or stream it with MythStreamTV.

Both NFS and Samba are included and configured. All one has to do is start the daemons. Got an nvidia based video adapter? Guess what is automatically installed on first boot? Navigate with a keyboard? KnoppMyth includes out the box support for multiple remotes. Guess which distro was the first to officially support the popular Hauppauge PVR line of hardware MPEG tuners?

The ideal behind KnoppMyth is to make it easy to get a Linux/MythTV powered PVR is a quick and easy manner. Some of you already get this... Think appliance. KnoppMyth is into it's fifth year and we'll continue to improve and develop it. Much thanks to member of the community for the improvements, ideals and support. I do wish MythDora and MythBuntu well, however as I see it... They are threading on ground already paved.

Regards,

Cecil

Slightly OT... Lightweight MythTV Front-end

My preference is to just run the MythTV backend on an Ubuntu server in the basement and the frontend from an old laptop in the living room... for the laptop, using a LiveCD is ideal since I don't have to maintain anything, save for burning another CD for updates (when I feel like it).

Lately, I've started looking at a device called the Neuros OSD... I don't know much about the state of development of the OSS add-ons but if someone gets either the MythTV front-end running on it, or writes a front-end that is compatible with the back-end I'd get one for each TV in the house.

Wussy

I built my mythTV box with GENTOO.

Happy with MythDora 4.0

Got around to blowing away my hand-rolled Fedora 4, Myth 2.0 rpm set last week with an "auto" MythDora install. Installation and hardware recognition were 100% uneventful on low-end current stuff. The beginner could find the Myth configuration a learning experience, as always, but I had screen shots of my previous installation and that was uneventful as well.

I think it took me about as much time to angle the new SATA drive into the machine as it did to do the install and an equal amount of time (because I knew what I was doing) to get my first TV reception. Subsequent twiddling is still going on this week of course because I had extra stuff installed like avidemux ;)

How does LinuxMCE compare?

See http://linuxmce.com/ [linuxmce.com]. Disclaimer: I've never used any of these. I am however thinking of building a media center box and noticed the LinuxMCE freshmeat announcement a few days back.

Not comparing apples to apples

Knoppmyth is in a completely different league than the other two. If you would realize this and do your homework instead of posting a half-assed ridiculous article. Knoppmyth is made to be a set top box. Not an entire distribution that happens to run mythtv on top. Knoppmyth is extremely light weight and rock solid. Looks like you failed to do your homework and see how many posts on the mythtv mailing list there are about people that hose their system from installing and upgrading. This is on the case with knoppmyth. Next time do a little better research on your articles. Get your facts straight.

incorrect and ill thought out

> The live CD heritage of Knoppix means you cannot update individual packages

The package manager is installed just like on any other
system. Upgrades are not a problem. This guy 'upgrades' because he's a technophile tinkerer,
not because there's any valid reason for doing so.

PS2 and mythfrontend

I know this is a bit old school, but Sony ps2's are linux friendly and cheap. Has anyone tried to use one as a mythfrontend with the network adapter and the linux kit.

Re:And People Complain About The Many Version Of V

mythtv is just linux softwre - those distros are just rolls of their parent distros with mythtv bundled and tuned as it doesn't normally come bundled.

if you're going to watch HD it's best to compile it yourself so it can do the most cpu optimizations (make sure to enable them via the appropriate configure flag)

Distro? You Want Distro? You Can't Handle the...

I honestly thought that when one said,"Get MythTV." it would be that simple. Why does it surprise me that there is more than one distro, just like the rest of Linux?

New Slogans

• Linux, its just too forking much.
• Forked.com - It's not Porno!
• If you need help, RTFM - Read the Forking Manual, you forking noob.
• Linux Geeks, they couldn't get forked if their sisters were giving it away.

Yes, I realize, a distro != fork, but now-a-days with the vast differences, it may almost amount to one.

Re:Distro? You Want Distro? You Can't Handle the..

How can you expect people to wear clothes, when there's so much choice?-)