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Mandriva Says No to Microsoft Linux Deal

Posted by Zonk on Thu Jun 21, 2007 02:19 PM
from the penguins-on-the-offensive dept.
Kurtz'sKompund writes "French Linux vendor Mandriva said no to dealing with Microsoft on open source patents. They're the third Linux vendor in a week to do so, joining Red Hat and Ubuntu in the 'against' column. TechWorld reports that Mandriva's CEO echoed statements from other open source leaders, saying essentially 'we don't need to pay protection money to do our job.' From the article: 'Jonathan Eunice, an analyst at Illuminata, said Microsoft's deals with Xandros and Linspire don't have the same impact as they would if they had been made with a major Linux vendor such as Red Hat. "I think Microsoft is going to second-tier players, and they're cutting deals with them because they are softer targets," Eunice said.'"
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Related Stories

[+] Xandros CEO Doesn't Agree Linux is Patent Violator 156 comments
whitehartstag writes with a link to a Network World article about statements from Xandros in the wake of their Microsoft deal. Xandros CEO Andreas Typaldos made a point of stating that they don't believe their product violates any of Microsoft's patents. Nor, he said, did the software giant share with them exactly which patents they believe Linux violates. Just the same, he's disappointed with the reaction they've received from the open source community. "Feedback from the Linux community has been on the order of 'you shouldn't really be talking to the devil.' Linux and open-source advocates believe it is a big issue and say the Xandros deal, and another signed by Novell with Microsoft last year, erodes open source licensing provisions especially around intellectual property issues. Indeed, the Free Software Foundation is rewriting its GNU General Public License (GPL) 3.0 to prohibit such patent deals in the future."
[+] Linspire Signs Patent Pact With MS 386 comments
RLiegh sends us to an AP article reporting that Linspire has signed a patent deal with Microsoft. The company, which started out life as "Lindows," joins a growing list of patent agreements reached between Microsoft and vendors. Linspire will be granted a license to use True Type Fonts and "various code" that would allow for Linspire users to use voice on Windows Live Messenger as well as the usual patent protection for Linspire's customers. In return, among other things, Linspire will make Microsoft's search engine the default search on PCs shipped with their OS. Kevin Carmony, the CEO for Linspire, approached Microsoft a year and a half ago, according to the article.
[+] Your Rights Online: Shuttleworth Says No Patent Deals With Microsoft 121 comments
christian.einfeldt writes "The FOSS press has speculated for some time now that Mark Shuttleworth would probably not agree to any patent 'protection' deals with Microsoft, but blogger Steven Rosenberg has found a page on Shuttleworth's personal blog ('Here Be Dragons') that unambiguously sets out Shuttleworth's opposition to Canonical's participation in any such deal. Rosenberg summarizes Shuttleworth's position in these terms: 'So there you have it — Canonical welcomes any efforts by Microsoft to improve "interoperability," isn't a fan of OpenXML, doesn't want to infringe on anybody's patents or trademarks, thinks Microsoft's threats are ill-advised, and would like to actually deal with the issue rather than respond out of fear.'
[+] Red Hat Rejects Microsoft Deals 287 comments
Kurtz'sKompund passed us an article detailing another loss in Microsoft's licensing push: Red Hat has summarily rejected Redmond's offer of an alliance. The article also touches on Ubuntu's rejection of the same offer, which we discussed this past weekend. ZDNet reports on comments from Mark Shuttleworth and the Red Hat organization, with Shuttleworth stating "Allegations of 'infringement of unspecified patents' carry no weight whatsoever. We don't think they have any legal merit, and they are no incentive for us to work with Microsoft on any of the wonderful things we could do together." Red Hat was even more blunt, stating the organization refused to pay an "innovation tax" to Microsoft. "Red Hat said there would be no such deal. Referring to previous statements distancing itself from Microsoft, the company insisted: 'Red Hat's standpoint has not changed.' The company referenced a statement written when Microsoft revealed it was partnering with Novell, saying that its position remained unaltered. Red Hat director of corporate communications Leigh Day added: 'We continue to believe that open source and the innovation it represents should not be subject to an unsubstantiated tax that lacks transparency.' Many open-source followers argue that Red Hat, as the largest Linux vendor, would have a lot to lose from partnering with Microsoft."
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  • So.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Turn-X Alphonse (789240) on Thursday June 21 2007, @02:21PM (#19597943) Journal
    So all these groups need to do is go "we'll make no deal" and they get free press on a bunch of geek news sites, more support from the community AND they get street cred?

    Wow, who would side with MS when you can get 3 priceless things which your entire business model relies on?
    • Re:So.. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by madcow_bg (969477) on Thursday June 21 2007, @02:40PM (#19598223)

      So all these groups need to do is go "we'll make no deal" and they get free press on a bunch of geek news sites, more support from the community AND they get street cred?

      Wow, who would side with MS when you can get 3 priceless things which your entire business model relies on?
      Which is very, very good indeed! It shows that the community matters!
    • Re:So.. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by kungfoolery (1022787) <kaiyoung.pak@gmail.com> on Thursday June 21 2007, @03:00PM (#19598459)

      I'm sure it's a bigger deal than that.

      Undoubtedly, Microsoft is waving a big bag of money in front of these vendors in order to entice them to sign. Turning away a deal with a devil that'll plop you tons of cash in your pocket to help fuel future R&D plus the promise of no future litigation from M$' army of lawyers so you can focus on said R&D might not be as easy to turn away as it seems.

      I will say though, this makes my respect for those vendors who have refused to sign that much greater

      • Re:So.. (Score:5, Interesting)

        by bonefry (979930) on Thursday June 21 2007, @03:36PM (#19598983)

        Turning away a deal with a devil that'll plop you tons of cash in your pocket to help fuel future R&D ...
        You forget that it's the community that does the actual R&D ... and Novell, Xandros and Linspire will feel this when major projects start going GPL3, and they are left behind with old forks that need maintenance.

        That's what happens when you bite the hand that feeds you ;)
        • Re:So.. (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Wylfing (144940) <brianNO@SPAMwylfing.net> on Thursday June 21 2007, @04:05PM (#19599375) Homepage Journal

          So very well put.

          These companies who profit wholly on the efforts of gift-economy programmers want to make deals that shaft those very same people. Either participate in the gift economy or don't. We don't care. But please don't try to poison our gift economy.

        • Re:So.. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by MightyMartian (840721) on Thursday June 21 2007, @04:41PM (#19599945) Journal
          That's precisely the position I take. For all the contributions these guys make, the fact is that the overwhelming majority of code sitting in their distros was not developed by them and is not maintained by them. They are the recipients of a good deal of hard work by other people, and as they take this road to complicity with Microsoft's anti-OS campaigns, they're going to find themselves on the margins.
      • by CrazedWalrus (901897) on Thursday June 21 2007, @04:29PM (#19599771) Journal
        ... is one with each other. Some sort of mutual defense agreement. If MS does decide to sue, they should all come to each other's aid. Maybe one company is too small, but the combination of those in the 'against' column might stand a fighting chance.

        They should also highly publicize this agreement. It will go a long way against the MS patent FUD. Actively recruiting players who were not approached, like IBM and Oracle, would go even further.

        In the end, a couple things might happen:

        1. MS doesn't sue, and good PR was had by all (except MS).
        2. MS sues and gets a run for its money. They might even lose, all dollars being equal. Either way, they need to disclose their patents at that point, which ends this particular FUD campaign.


        In any case, mutualy defense is a win for F/OSS.

  • by Urusai (865560) on Thursday June 21 2007, @02:25PM (#19598013)
    What does Microsoft think it will get from these deals with distributions? I doubt most of them have patents that can be cross licensed. I gather most patents in OSS are retained by individuals, or by companies like IBM or Sun.
    • by klingens (147173) on Thursday June 21 2007, @02:29PM (#19598069)
      They get acknowledgement for their patents. They have proof that people settled for their patents they can show in lawsuits down the line. Now their patents have assigned some value. And those deals won't last forever either:
      Do you think MS still pays money to distros 5,10 years down the line? No, then they want to receive money, at least from the ones still around.

      MS is in for the long haul here.
      • by 140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) on Thursday June 21 2007, @03:24PM (#19598799) Journal
        Red Hat and a few other major players have openly contested MSFT's claim that Linux violates its patents. So the value of "Look Ma! These guys agreed and paid me money" argument is very low.

        Further to sustain, "they paid us money" argument, they have to show that these companies paid more to MSFT than the recieved in concurrent deals. Already they can show that it is MSFT that paid Novell and not the otehr way around. They will move for discovery to see what kind of deals it offered to others who signed on. That is a can of worms MSFT would not like to open.

        Further, many open source advocates have openly challenged MSFT to identify the alleged violations and they claim if there were really violations they could work around it easily. By not identifying these patents, Linux advocates could argue that MSFT has abandoned whatever rights it had. In copyrights/trademarks, if a company knows there is a violation of its trademark/copyright and still takes no action, it loses the trademark. This is one argument Linux could make.

        In my opninion, IANAL, the strong, open and vocal dispute over the claims MSFT made over Linux has completely voided any residual "why would they have paid us money if they had not violated my patents?" arguments.

    • by MightyMartian (840721) on Thursday June 21 2007, @02:30PM (#19598073) Journal
      It doesn't give a damn about that. It wants, like SCO before it, to have some trophies on the wall, so it can point at them and say "See, these guys think there's a violation of our IP rights going on!" I'm sure they expected guys like RedHat and Ubuntu to tell them to kiss their shiny metal asses, but still, they've got a few, and now they'll milk those PR wins for everything they're worth.
      • by organgtool (966989) on Thursday June 21 2007, @04:02PM (#19599327)
        Good point. In addition to that, deals like this go further to fragment the growing Linux community. Let's not forget that with contributions such as Xgl, Mono, Beagle, and AppArmor, Novell is no slacker when it comes to Linux development. If the Novell-Microsoft agreement makes Novell unable to release their code under the GPL3 like some people have speculated, that would not only punish Novell but all of the Linux users who could benefit from Novell's projects.
  • Microsoft's patent threat can only go so far.

    a) Acting out a patent lawsuit against a European company would be an utter political disaster for Microsoft. As soon as MS starts filing patent lawsuits against European companies, the EU will invent a reason to sue Microsoft again and again.

    b) Acting out a patent lawsuit against an American company that is well funded, such as IBM, would be a disaster for the software industry and invite federal involvement, which no one wants.

    c) Microsoft, like many tech companies, has managed to alienate Republican support. Ballmer might be a Republican, but Gates has already said he's, sigh, for the other side. So, I wouldn't expect a great many Republicans leaping to the defense of MS in the event some sort of legal war goes against them. And surely, Democrats aren't exactly going to rush to defend an oligarchical billionaire's company. Microsoft doesn't really have the allies on the hill that it thinks it has, and Republicans remember MS didn't do them any favors after they got a sweetheart anti-trust deal to begin with.

    Bottom line is this: Microsoft's patent threat is a threat only, one that would it be stupid to use, and Linux distros shouldn't be afraid of it.
  • by John Jamieson (890438) on Thursday June 21 2007, @02:31PM (#19598101)
    Way to go Mandriva. This affirms that MS is only able to pick off the weaker/greedier distro's.

    Mandriva/Mandrake has held a place in my heart for a long time. It is up to date, and it has about the nicest install.

    If you are going to give a linux PC to a newbie, they are one of the first I would recommend. They have configuration tools (drake) that are second to none.

    It is a very nice distro, and now with the assurance that we are free from MS worries, I would highly recommend trying it to see if it is the right distro for your friends.
    • by sconeu (64226) on Thursday June 21 2007, @02:50PM (#19598333) Homepage Journal
      Been using Mandrake/Mandriva off and on since 2001 (8.1).

      The x.2 and the 10.x (through 2006) were pretty ugly. 2007 and 2007.1 seem to be pretty good.

      Until Ubuntu, MDK had the rep as *THE* newbie friendly distro. The installer is still second to none (with the caveat that it seems to overwrite the MBR with grub even if you tell it to install grub on the root partition instead).
  • by Weaselmancer (533834) on Thursday June 21 2007, @02:40PM (#19598209)

    "I think Microsoft is going to second-tier players, and they're cutting deals with them because they are softer targets," Eunice said.

    Let's hope that perception catches on. Only second-tier Linux players go in for a Microsoft deal.

    Want to give everyone the perception that you're one of the major players? Refuse to deal.

  • How many more? (Score:4, Informative)

    by Statecraftsman (718862) on Thursday June 21 2007, @03:12PM (#19598617) Homepage
    I wonder how many more Linux vendors have to say no to Microsoft before they remember what got them in the position they're in. Didn't they at some point develop and ship software people wanted to use?

    Note to Bill: Fire the lawyers and improve Vista. See the accompanying discussion to this article [slashdot.org] to begin pulling your head out.
  • Go European (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Burz (138833) on Thursday June 21 2007, @04:49PM (#19600125) Journal
    Novell should move to Europe (where the SuSE distro probably should have stayed, in hindsight) and tear up their MS patent agreement into little pieces.

    Or heck, Red Hat (having rejected MS patents outright) could even go first, with Linus in tow.

    It would make perfect sense if the MS threats weren't also aimed at users.
  • So, MS convinced some sucke...errr..vendors to cough up dough for licensing. If they don't pursue action against those that didn't bend over, how pissed off will those that shelled out $$$ be if others are getting it for free?
      • by negated (981743) on Thursday June 21 2007, @03:53PM (#19599199)

        They are our liberators, not a Supreme Being (may I be struck dead by His noodley appendage if it ain't so)!

        Sorry, just had to fix that for you!
        - S
        • by dvice_null (981029) on Thursday June 21 2007, @03:47PM (#19599125)
          > If there is a God, why does he/she allow disasters like earthquakes and Microsoft?

          Are you comparing a disaster that causes billions of dollars finansial losses and thousands of people to lose their home every year, to a natural movement of tectonic plates? That's low.