Dell Ships Ubuntu 7.04 PCs Today

javipas writes "Today by 4:00 PM CST Dell will start selling three machines with Ubuntu 7.04 pre-installed. The two desktops (XPS 410n, $899 and Dimension E520n, $599) and the notebook (Inspiron E1505n, $599) will be the first three machines with the popular Linux distribution installed by default. There is little or no price differential between the Linux and Windows models; in fact, the entry level E520 Windows desktop is cheaper. Dell has announced that they will provide hardware support, and they've created a new site devoted to giving further Linux support and updates. At the moment the offer is only available in the US."

Only three ?

They must be mighty expensive then !

Re:Only three ?

Nah, they just shipped one for each of the three Linux users in the common marketplace who would buy a pre-built machine.

Re:Only three ?

Ballmer. The last one is for him so that he can properly gauge how far he can throw it, most lethal angles, etc, for when they start losing significant sales to linux boxxen.

TFA Updated: All Linux boxen $50-100 less than MS

'Scuse me for topic-hopping a near-top thread, but this needs to be seen.

Dell updated the article TFA was based on to correct a pricing typo and someone posted a followup to summarize the corrected price differences.

If the compared boxen are actually equivalently-featured (time will tell) all the linux (suffix "n") versions are $50-$100 lower price than the Windows equivalents:

[Desktop]

Windows XPS 410:$899
Ubuntu XPS 410n:$849
($50 less)

Windows Dimension E520 "Versatile Multimedia": $679
Ubuntu Dimension E520n: $599
($80 less)

[Notebook]

Windows Inspiron E1505: $699
Ubuntu Inspiron E1505n: $599
($100 less)

Typical

Windows is cheaper than the free OS. That makes sense.

Re:Typical

Makes sense if you consider the bundled software that comes with Windows that the software manufacturers pay Dell to put on the systems. And if you consider the added cost for supporting a new OS.

Re:Typical

> I paid $100 for Windows XP. The Ubantu Dell should cost at lest $100 less than the identical Windows box.

1) Dell doesn't pay the retail cost for Windows.

2) Dell defrays the cost of each PC with the additional software (aka "crapware") that vendors pay to have pre-installed on dell PCs. At the moment, the version of Ubuntu sold with Dell PCs does not include such software...so you are buying a clean PC. Thus, the price comparison noted in the original article is inappropriate. Instead, one should compare the cost of the new Dell Ubuntu models with the cost of their equivalent Windows versions with the dell "clean PC" option...which adds additional expense to the Windows PC.

3) Dell must defray a range of costs associated with these new models, including additional work with OEM vendors for drivers, building a Linux-centric support site, and providing Linux OS phone support...at least with regards to how it relates to the hardware.

4) Most people who will buy one of these models with Ubuntu will most likely not do so to save money. Thus, Dell does not need to offer deep discounts...and this is a free market.

Re:Typical

Windows is cheaper than the free OS. That makes sense.

I think for Linux installs they don't get revenue from Symantec's trial of the worst security suite in the world, WildTangent, Office trials, Quicken trials, video game trials, some poker, etc.

So maybe it DOES cost less overall to install Windows.

It makes perfect sense

There was a story on Ars Technica a while back (I don't have the link, sorry) where Michael Dell was doing a question and answer session, and someone asked him how much extra they would have to pay to get a PC without "Craplets". The figure he gave was $50 - $60.

Now, I don't know how much Dell pay for a vista license, and I don't suppose we will be finding out any time soon, but if it's less than $50 dollars (which would not be a shock) then the Linux machines being more expensive makes sense. If I had to guess though, I think they will probably sell for the same price as the Windows machines.

Of course entry-level windows is cheaper...

Microsoft pays a heavy subsidy to lock people in. So it costs you negative money at first, but believe me there is a positive cost at the end that more than makes up for it, or else they wouldn't do it. Open source is the same price the whole time: free.

Re:Of course entry-level windows is cheaper...

Don't forget that at the moment, Windows is also cheaper to support. That cost is built into a Dell, since they provide support for 'free' after you buy the PC. They charge for that up front.

One would initially think that only those who know linux will buy one of these with Kubuntu on it, but as more techs convince family and friends to buy them, support costs will rise.

I've never bought a brand-new laptop because I don't really need one, and it's always been a hassle to guarantee Linux will work on it, before I buy it. For only $600 though, I'm seriously considering one of these. It'll depend on specs and if they sell out too quickly. We'll see.

Re:Of course entry-level windows is cheaper...

I just looked... The Inspiron E1505 with Windows starts at $699... That makes the Linux version $100 cheaper. Very nice.

Re:Of course entry-level windows is cheaper...

Microsoft pays a heavy subsidy to lock people in

Eh?

It's all the other software vendors apart from MS who pay for their adware/crapware/scareware to be on the Dell Desktop.

3rd party software

Dell pays for Microsoft software just like everybody else. They don't pay very much, but they still pay a little for it. The difference is the 3rd party stuff. The Norton/McAfee third party trials. The AOL links on the desktop. The Nero trials and all the other stuff you either uninstall or wipe with your own installation of XP/what-have-you. *Those* are the sort of things that Dell gets kickbacks on.

I'll pay to be sure Linux works now AND later

I've been waiting for this day, so I plan to buy the Ubuntu laptop in the next week or two.

At first, the base price may be more expensive than the Windows laptop, but:

1. probably not by much
2. In the long run, the Windows laptop may be more expensive when I have to pay more for add-ons that are on the Linux Hardware Compatibility List [linuxquestions.org]. (You know, like buying a wireless card that works.) Even if I end up wiping the system and reinstalling some other Linux distro, I want to know that the hardware works with Linux.
3. Even if the add-on itself is pretty cheap, I've found that often I will end up buying a number of the cheap add-ons before I find one that's Linux compatible, so that effectively I've spent more money than actual list price (of the peripheral) to get it working. For example, I've got some webcams lying around that I ended up giving to the wife for her notebook. (She told me, "I only need one, you know...")
   
4. Most importantly, my time is valuable to me. I don't want to have to spend the time messing around with a Linux distro trying to see which video driver is going to work for me. Hey, don't get me wrong: I like tinkering just as much as the next guy, but in the meantime I want to have a working system. I'd rather tinker to see what I can make even better, rather than tinker to get something working.
   In the past, I have proudly emerged from the entrails of my machine saying, "Yesss! What a breakthrough! Am I a geek or what? After countless hours of Googling, downloading drivers, messing with the hardware, and writing my own script files, my computer now finally works properly!" Meanwhile, my wife's machine has worked from the beginning. Well, been there, done that; now I want to move on. I want it to just work.
5. The above referred to my willingness to pay more to receive a machine that works when I receive it, but I also get a future benefit by joining the critical mass that Dell creates by selling this machine. Specifically, since there is only one notebook (Inspiron E1505) from a major vendor that comes with Linux, I can be pretty sure that when someone comes out with something in the future for a notebook running Linux (say gRoadMaps or something), the author or the community will make sure it runs on that notebook. The same might not be true for some cheaper notebook with some weird chipset.
6. Dell responded to us as a community. We should support them, not just to reward Dell, but to show the rest of the corporate world that, yes, it is worthwhile supporting Linux. I'm not just referring to Dell's competitors, but manufacturers of Linux-INcompatible [leenooks.com] hardware (WinModems, anyone?).
7. You know we'll set up some Ubuntu system for the relatives so we don't have to do tech support for all their malware complaints? Well, this is the hardware equivalent. My dad's laptop is getting old and is starting not to meet his needs. If I'm happy with this Inspiron/Ubuntu package, I'll get one for my dad. Maybe then finally we can have hassle-free GPG-encrypted email and tunneled VNC for tech support. (Currently I refuse to support his Windows laptop.)
8. As a sibling poster noted, perhaps the Linux notebook is cheaper ($600 vs $699 for Windows?)

So, when I tally it up, it's definitely to my self-interest to get the Dellbuntu system, even if it looks more expensive at first.

OK fanboys...

.. you've been asking for this for, let me think, for ever.

It's time to stop your moaning! And time to start your credit cards!!

Put your money where your mouth is :-)

monk.e.boy

Mod parent up; not a troll.

If nobody buys these, I seriously doubt they'll keep them around. And if Dell drops them due to lack of demand (in real life, not on the Internet), Linux will end up farther from getting on the average person's desktop than before.

Re:Mod parent up; not a troll.

Agreed. This is the kind of marketing Linux has needed for a while to begin to impinge on the consciousness of the average user. As long as they had to call their geeky neighbor and have him/her install it on their box then spend weeks getting acquainted with the differences, Linux was not going to get any respect. Now, there may be a chance.

Re:Mod parent up; not a troll.

I'll believe this deal has a chance when you can get an option from installing ubuntu as the OS by just going in through Dell's front page. Right now, this [dell.com] is all I see, no mention of Ubuntu for the E520. If this changes by 4 PM CST then I'll think that Dell's serious about giving linux a chance, but if you have to know about it before you can find it as an option, or go to a special page, I imagine it will only be as successful as their redhat offering.

Inspirons

Why only ship their most cheaply-made, crappiest notebook with Linux? Are they trying to give Linux a bad rep. by bundling it with that kind of hardware? Dell's higher-end notebooks may be OK, but the $500-600 range Inspirons aren't on that list.

-b.

Re:Inspirons

Keep in mind those are the BASE prices.

They are basically the lost leader prices they use to "get you in the door". Once there you can still customize the laptop or desktop with any number of hardware selections, including more RAM, better processor, and larger hard drive. These machines also come with dedicated video cards, as the integrated video isn't supported very well by Ubuntu. So you are STARTING OUT with a better base model than the Windows base model. (Which also explains why the Linux laptop is more expensive than the Windows one.)

My company has been a Dell shop for as long as I have been here, and I've become VERY familiar with Dell's setup. Keep in mind, Dell has been selling "open Source" (Free DOS) Desktops and laptops for YEARS already. Adding Ubuntu isn't THAT much of a change for them. I'd also imagine that you will find that the support package offered by Dell will actually be a Canonical support contract. This was a natural next step for Dell, and I think that all Slashdotters should get behind them. Not just with their words, but with their Dollars. I know that when it's time to replace my personal laptop (in about 6 months), I'll be going through Dell, and getting an Ubuntu Laptop.

Good on ya' Dell!

Re:Inspirons

I know that when it's time to replace my personal laptop (in about 6 months)

And I'll be laughing at you when I buy a better-quality used laptop for $300-400 and install Ubuntu on it.

-b.

Re:Inspirons

And I'll be laughing at you when I buy a better-quality used laptop for $300-400 and install Ubuntu on it.

Unless you are going to be buying a used Mac Powerbook, I doubt that will be happening.

A used notebook is going to be used, abused, and worn out. Even the much-vaunted Thinkpads are not indestructible, and the notebooks that sell at the prices you mention are going to be more than 3 years old, and completely out of date.

I've not found the Dell laptops to be any better or worse than the competition, and I carry my laptop with me pretty much everywhere I go, so it gets plenty of abuse. It sounds to me like you just have a bug up your butt about Dell. With that I cannot help you, as no matter what I say, your obvious irrational hate of all things Dell will not allow you to take a balanced approach to this issue. It's too bad, because Dell and Ubuntu really do need our support as a community if this is going to work. Trolling Dell for personal reasons just gets in the way.

And before you go off on me as a Dell fanboy, Keep in mind that I was hired into an already established "Dell shop". My company as a long-standing relationship with Dell, and regardless of my personal preferences, Dell is what we use. We have thousands of machines, all Dell, and I have had to work on EVERY ONE of them. I have dealt with Dell support, and I have worked with a Dell Rep. So I'm not just working on the one or two machines owned by family and friends, these boxes are my job to keep running. I have found that duty to be reasonably easy. Yes, we have had our share of lemon machines, but no more than I have run into at other places, with other makes of PC. Dell is no worse or better than any other manufacturer in regards to the general quality of their PCs, excepting perhaps Apple, but those aren't so good in a Windows software programmer shop, so I can't get them.

Dell deserves our support. They listened to their customers, and are giving us what we wanted. They deserve to have this risk rewarded.

Next to worthless

I don't see many people buying the more expensive model, just to have Ubuntu pre-installed, except maybe to make a point to Dell (very few will do this). Let's face it, the people who want Ubuntu are pretty likely to just buy the cheaper model and install Ubuntu. This might work in some distant future where people without technical knowledge want Linux, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong by history though.

Don't bitch about the price

Remember, Microsoft essentially pays to have it's OS on OEM machines. It is a negative cost: the only thing free can't always compete with.

Re:Don't bitch about the price

You what? I think you will find Dell, HP etc pay MS to have windows on their machines. Where the fuck do you think a large percentage of all that cash MS has came from?

Dial Up

How are they going to handle dial up issues? Are they going to include the same conexant modem? I have problems believing they have worked out a deal to use the linuxant driver.

This has actually been my biggest issue getting ppl to switch. I live in BFE, and a lot of ppl are still using dial up. Nobody wants to fork out extra cash to switch operating systems when they already have windows up and working for "free"

Re:Dial Up

The Conexant modem works with Ndiswrapper. I have an Inspiron 1200 and has been running Linux on it for years. Everything works.

What they fail to mention

They fail to mention that the linux boxen come with a free copy of Office (a $300.00 value), free copy of Photoshop ($??? Value), and thousands of other free programs that will ultimately save you money. No, it doesn't make up for the base price of the OS, but with Linux, you don't just get the OS.

Re:What they fail to mention

and never, ever think that gimp can take the place of photoshop.

Not everyone does professional-quality PAPER graphic design. For most Web work, GIMP is just fine.

-b.

I wonder..

Will dell, when they see that the sale of linux is not to great, check to see the sales of those exact models - since there is no actual reason to buy a linux pc from dell right now, I expect people to buy the windows version and wipe and install themselves.
At the time being there is no point in buying a linux dell, since it's the same price, and if you buy the windows one you get more; a windows license and a computer you know you can run linux on. What's the point of buying the linux one ?
(I know, I will probably buy the linux one, since I have no use for the windows, but it actually makes no sense to the average person to buy the linux one, since you get more for less/same price with the windows one)

I would have thought...

... that almost anyone clued in enough to decide that they want Ubuntu would be clued up enough to just buy the Windows version and install Ubuntu dual boot. Most linux users still have some use for windows and its lice to have it legally.

I wonder what discount could be had if there was a 'no support' option? I can't see regular home users queuing up to buy something they are unfamiliar with if the price is the same.

Re:I would have thought...

... that almost anyone clued in enough to decide that they want Ubuntu would be clued up enough to just buy the Windows version and install Ubuntu dual boot. Most linux users still have some use for windows and its lice to have it legally.

Well, tell ya what - I want Ubuntu, I want it on a laptop, and I think I'm clued up enough (been running linux for years; two Slackware servers and an Ubuntu desktop at home; I switched my work-machine from Windows to Ubuntu and then wrote a guide that nine other colleagues used to do the same).

I'm pretty confident that I've got the skills to buy the Windows machine from Dell, and switch it myself (though no, I wouldn't dual-boot, I have no use for Windows on it). I could probably find the right drivers for the GoofyCool wireless card, get the sleep function working, etc, etc, etc. As I said elsewhere, I've even got the money. So why don't I? To be honest, I really don't have the time. Married, kids, full-time job, plus other responsibilities. Something else would have to suffer - something that (and here I put my geek-card at risk) frankly, is more important than a new toy.

I don't want to shell out a grand or whatever and then have to spend time I don't have to turn the machine into what I actually needed in the first place. There is a time I would have, and would have relished the chance - but that time is long passed.

I'm a reasonably sophisticated Linux user, and even a Linux advocate - but in this case - I'm primarily a consumer with a need and the willingness to pay for it. The guy who offers to fulfill that need, gets the cash.

Price Subject to Change?

Retailer has new product and it's not priced dirt bottom. That's news?

It would be silly to introduce a new version of a product and sell it for less than an existing product.

If it were me, I'd start with the price up a little bit for two reasons. 1, less complaining when the price goes down versus up (yes, someone will complain on a price drop!). 2, with a higher price I have a cushion in case these things start selling like hotcakes and the volume murders my margin as I burn resources to keep up.

SOP, nothing to see here.

Re:Price Subject to Change?

According TFA, the prices are still cheaper (except the XPS) for the Ubuntu systems as long as you compare it to an Windows Vista Home Premium configuration (vs. the Home Basic).

It breaks down like this:

Linux preinstalled
E520 - $599
E1505n (notebook) - $599
XPS 410n - $899

Windows Vista Home Premium preinstalled
E520 - $679 ($369 for Home Basic)
E1505n (notebook) - $699 (for Home Basic)
XPS 410n - $899

The E520 and the E1505n are both cheaper by $80-$100 compared to the Vista Home Premium Edition (though the Windows notebook is actually cheaper even for Home Basic). That's still a good deal in my view.

Ok, reading these comments I'm confused...

One minute, Microsoft make most of their money through Windows OEM sales...

Now they're actually paying OEM's to have their software installed?

My personal guess is that Dell know this'll be a specialist product line, and that the extra money they would've spent on buying each copy of Windows is instead going towards Michael Dells' cigar allowance...unless of course it becomes a serious product line (which it might), and then you'll see a proper roll-out.

Dell and Walmart

Pretty funny that this happens at the same time start selling Dell PC's at Wal-Mart. Pretty desperate, I'm guessing.

Riding the wave of all the other sell-outs who disappeared.
Who's up next to bat?