Dell Ships Ubuntu 7.04 PCs Today

javipas writes "Today by 4:00 PM CST Dell will start selling three machines with Ubuntu 7.04 pre-installed. The two desktops (XPS 410n, $899 and Dimension E520n, $599) and the notebook (Inspiron E1505n, $599) will be the first three machines with the popular Linux distribution installed by default. There is little or no price differential between the Linux and Windows models; in fact, the entry level E520 Windows desktop is cheaper. Dell has announced that they will provide hardware support, and they've created a new site devoted to giving further Linux support and updates. At the moment the offer is only available in the US."

Only three ?

They must be mighty expensive then !

Re:Only three ?

Nah, they just shipped one for each of the three Linux users in the common marketplace who would buy a pre-built machine.

Re:Only three ?

Ballmer. The last one is for him so that he can properly gauge how far he can throw it, most lethal angles, etc, for when they start losing significant sales to linux boxxen.

TFA Updated: All Linux boxen $50-100 less than MS

'Scuse me for topic-hopping a near-top thread, but this needs to be seen.

Dell updated the article TFA was based on to correct a pricing typo and someone posted a followup to summarize the corrected price differences.

If the compared boxen are actually equivalently-featured (time will tell) all the linux (suffix "n") versions are $50-$100 lower price than the Windows equivalents:

[Desktop]

Windows XPS 410:$899
Ubuntu XPS 410n:$849
($50 less)

Windows Dimension E520 "Versatile Multimedia": $679
Ubuntu Dimension E520n: $599
($80 less)

[Notebook]

Windows Inspiron E1505: $699
Ubuntu Inspiron E1505n: $599
($100 less)

Typical

Windows is cheaper than the free OS. That makes sense.

Re:Typical

Makes sense if you consider the bundled software that comes with Windows that the software manufacturers pay Dell to put on the systems. And if you consider the added cost for supporting a new OS.

Re:Typical

> I paid $100 for Windows XP. The Ubantu Dell should cost at lest $100 less than the identical Windows box.

1) Dell doesn't pay the retail cost for Windows.

2) Dell defrays the cost of each PC with the additional software (aka "crapware") that vendors pay to have pre-installed on dell PCs. At the moment, the version of Ubuntu sold with Dell PCs does not include such software...so you are buying a clean PC. Thus, the price comparison noted in the original article is inappropriate. Instead, one should compare the cost of the new Dell Ubuntu models with the cost of their equivalent Windows versions with the dell "clean PC" option...which adds additional expense to the Windows PC.

3) Dell must defray a range of costs associated with these new models, including additional work with OEM vendors for drivers, building a Linux-centric support site, and providing Linux OS phone support...at least with regards to how it relates to the hardware.

4) Most people who will buy one of these models with Ubuntu will most likely not do so to save money. Thus, Dell does not need to offer deep discounts...and this is a free market.

Re:Typical

Windows is cheaper than the free OS. That makes sense.

I think for Linux installs they don't get revenue from Symantec's trial of the worst security suite in the world, WildTangent, Office trials, Quicken trials, video game trials, some poker, etc.

So maybe it DOES cost less overall to install Windows.

It makes perfect sense

There was a story on Ars Technica a while back (I don't have the link, sorry) where Michael Dell was doing a question and answer session, and someone asked him how much extra they would have to pay to get a PC without "Craplets". The figure he gave was $50 - $60.

Now, I don't know how much Dell pay for a vista license, and I don't suppose we will be finding out any time soon, but if it's less than $50 dollars (which would not be a shock) then the Linux machines being more expensive makes sense. If I had to guess though, I think they will probably sell for the same price as the Windows machines.

Of course entry-level windows is cheaper...

Microsoft pays a heavy subsidy to lock people in. So it costs you negative money at first, but believe me there is a positive cost at the end that more than makes up for it, or else they wouldn't do it. Open source is the same price the whole time: free.

Re:Of course entry-level windows is cheaper...

Don't forget that at the moment, Windows is also cheaper to support. That cost is built into a Dell, since they provide support for 'free' after you buy the PC. They charge for that up front.

One would initially think that only those who know linux will buy one of these with Kubuntu on it, but as more techs convince family and friends to buy them, support costs will rise.

I've never bought a brand-new laptop because I don't really need one, and it's always been a hassle to guarantee Linux will work on it, before I buy it. For only $600 though, I'm seriously considering one of these. It'll depend on specs and if they sell out too quickly. We'll see.

Re:Of course entry-level windows is cheaper...

I just looked... The Inspiron E1505 with Windows starts at $699... That makes the Linux version $100 cheaper. Very nice.

Re:Of course entry-level windows is cheaper...

Microsoft pays a heavy subsidy to lock people in

Eh?

It's all the other software vendors apart from MS who pay for their adware/crapware/scareware to be on the Dell Desktop.

3rd party software

Dell pays for Microsoft software just like everybody else. They don't pay very much, but they still pay a little for it. The difference is the 3rd party stuff. The Norton/McAfee third party trials. The AOL links on the desktop. The Nero trials and all the other stuff you either uninstall or wipe with your own installation of XP/what-have-you. *Those* are the sort of things that Dell gets kickbacks on.

I'll pay to be sure Linux works now AND later

I've been waiting for this day, so I plan to buy the Ubuntu laptop in the next week or two.

At first, the base price may be more expensive than the Windows laptop, but:

1. probably not by much
2. In the long run, the Windows laptop may be more expensive when I have to pay more for add-ons that are on the Linux Hardware Compatibility List [linuxquestions.org]. (You know, like buying a wireless card that works.) Even if I end up wiping the system and reinstalling some other Linux distro, I want to know that the hardware works with Linux.
3. Even if the add-on itself is pretty cheap, I've found that often I will end up buying a number of the cheap add-ons before I find one that's Linux compatible, so that effectively I've spent more money than actual list price (of the peripheral) to get it working. For example, I've got some webcams lying around that I ended up giving to the wife for her notebook. (She told me, "I only need one, you know...")
   
4. Most importantly, my time is valuable to me. I don't want to have to spend the time messing around with a Linux distro trying to see which video driver is going to work for me. Hey, don't get me wrong: I like tinkering just as much as the next guy, but in the meantime I want to have a working system. I'd rather tinker to see what I can make even better, rather than tinker to get something working.
   In the past, I have proudly emerged from the entrails of my machine saying, "Yesss! What a breakthrough! Am I a geek or what? After countless hours of Googling, downloading drivers, messing with the hardware, and writing my own script files, my computer now finally works properly!" Meanwhile, my wife's machine has worked from the beginning. Well, been there, done that; now I want to move on. I want it to just work.
5. The above referred to my willingness to pay more to receive a machine that works when I receive it, but I also get a future benefit by joining the critical mass that Dell creates by selling this machine. Specifically, since there is only one notebook (Inspiron E1505) from a major vendor that comes with Linux, I can be pretty sure that when someone comes out with something in the future for a notebook running Linux (say gRoadMaps or something), the author or the community will make sure it runs on that notebook. The same might not be true for some cheaper notebook with some weird chipset.
6. Dell responded to us as a community. We should support them, not just to reward Dell, but to show the rest of the corporate world that, yes, it is worthwhile supporting Linux. I'm not just referring to Dell's competitors, but manufacturers of Linux-INcompatible [leenooks.com] hardware (WinModems, anyone?).
7. You know we'll set up some Ubuntu system for the relatives so we don't have to do tech support for all their malware complaints? Well, this is the hardware equivalent. My dad's laptop is getting old and is starting not to meet his needs. If I'm happy with this Inspiron/Ubuntu package, I'll get one for my dad. Maybe then finally we can have hassle-free GPG-encrypted email and tunneled VNC for tech support. (Currently I refuse to support his Windows laptop.)
8. As a sibling poster noted, perhaps the Linux notebook is cheaper ($600 vs $699 for Windows?)

So, when I tally it up, it's definitely to my self-interest to get the Dellbuntu system, even if it looks more expensive at first.

OK fanboys...

.. you've been asking for this for, let me think, for ever.

It's time to stop your moaning! And time to start your credit cards!!

Put your money where your mouth is :-)

monk.e.boy

Mod parent up; not a troll.

If nobody buys these, I seriously doubt they'll keep them around. And if Dell drops them due to lack of demand (in real life, not on the Internet), Linux will end up farther from getting on the average person's desktop than before.

Re:Mod parent up; not a troll.

Agreed. This is the kind of marketing Linux has needed for a while to begin to impinge on the consciousness of the average user. As long as they had to call their geeky neighbor and have him/her install it on their box then spend weeks getting acquainted with the differences, Linux was not going to get any respect. Now, there may be a chance.

Re:Mod parent up; not a troll.

I'll believe this deal has a chance when you can get an option from installing ubuntu as the OS by just going in through Dell's front page. Right now, this [dell.com] is all I see, no mention of Ubuntu for the E520. If this changes by 4 PM CST then I'll think that Dell's serious about giving linux a chance, but if you have to know about it before you can find it as an option, or go to a special page, I imagine it will only be as successful as their redhat offering.

Inspirons

Why only ship their most cheaply-made, crappiest notebook with Linux? Are they trying to give Linux a bad rep. by bundling it with that kind of hardware? Dell's higher-end notebooks may be OK, but the $500-600 range Inspirons aren't on that list.

-b.

Re:Inspirons

Keep in mind those are the BASE prices.

They are basically the lost leader prices they use to "get you in the door". Once there you can still customize the laptop or desktop with any number of hardware selections, including more RAM, better processor, and larger hard drive. These machines also come with dedicated video cards, as the integrated video isn't supported very well by Ubuntu. So you are STARTING OUT with a better base model than the Windows base model. (Which also explains why the Linux laptop is more expensive than the Windows one.)

My company has been a Dell shop for as long as I have been here, and I've become VERY familiar with Dell's setup. Keep in mind, Dell has been selling "open Source" (Free DOS) Desktops and laptops for YEARS already. Adding Ubuntu isn't THAT much of a change for them. I'd also imagine that you will find that the support package offered by Dell will actually be a Canonical support contract. This was a natural next step for Dell, and I think that all Slashdotters should get behind them. Not just with their words, but with their Dollars. I know that when it's time to replace my personal laptop (in about 6 months), I'll be going through Dell, and getting an Ubuntu Laptop.

Good on ya' Dell!

Re:Inspirons

I know that when it's time to replace my personal laptop (in about 6 months)

And I'll be laughing at you when I buy a better-quality used laptop for $300-400 and install Ubuntu on it.

-b.

Re:Inspirons

And I'll be laughing at you when I buy a better-quality used laptop for $300-400 and install Ubuntu on it.

Unless you are going to be buying a used Mac Powerbook, I doubt that will be happening.

A used notebook is going to be used, abused, and worn out. Even the much-vaunted Thinkpads are not indestructible, and the notebooks that sell at the prices you mention are going to be more than 3 years old, and completely out of date.

I've not found the Dell laptops to be any better or worse than the competition, and I carry my laptop with me pretty much everywhere I go, so it gets plenty of abuse. It sounds to me like you just have a bug up your butt about Dell. With that I cannot help you, as no matter what I say, your obvious irrational hate of all things Dell will not allow you to take a balanced approach to this issue. It's too bad, because Dell and Ubuntu really do need our support as a community if this is going to work. Trolling Dell for personal reasons just gets in the way.

And before you go off on me as a Dell fanboy, Keep in mind that I was hired into an already established "Dell shop". My company as a long-standing relationship with Dell, and regardless of my personal preferences, Dell is what we use. We have thousands of machines, all Dell, and I have had to work on EVERY ONE of them. I have dealt with Dell support, and I have worked with a Dell Rep. So I'm not just working on the one or two machines owned by family and friends, these boxes are my job to keep running. I have found that duty to be reasonably easy. Yes, we have had our share of lemon machines, but no more than I have run into at other places, with other makes of PC. Dell is no worse or better than any other manufacturer in regards to the general quality of their PCs, excepting perhaps Apple, but those aren't so good in a Windows software programmer shop, so I can't get them.

Dell deserves our support. They listened to their customers, and are giving us what we wanted. They deserve to have this risk rewarded.

Next to worthless

I don't see many people buying the more expensive model, just to have Ubuntu pre-installed, except maybe to make a point to Dell (very few will do this). Let's face it, the people who want Ubuntu are pretty likely to just buy the cheaper model and install Ubuntu. This might work in some distant future where people without technical knowledge want Linux, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong by history though.

Don't bitch about the price

Remember, Microsoft essentially pays to have it's OS on OEM machines. It is a negative cost: the only thing free can't always compete with.

Re:Don't bitch about the price

You what? I think you will find Dell, HP etc pay MS to have windows on their machines. Where the fuck do you think a large percentage of all that cash MS has came from?

Dial Up

How are they going to handle dial up issues? Are they going to include the same conexant modem? I have problems believing they have worked out a deal to use the linuxant driver.

This has actually been my biggest issue getting ppl to switch. I live in BFE, and a lot of ppl are still using dial up. Nobody wants to fork out extra cash to switch operating systems when they already have windows up and working for "free"

Re:Dial Up

The Conexant modem works with Ndiswrapper. I have an Inspiron 1200 and has been running Linux on it for years. Everything works.

What they fail to mention

They fail to mention that the linux boxen come with a free copy of Office (a $300.00 value), free copy of Photoshop ($??? Value), and thousands of other free programs that will ultimately save you money. No, it doesn't make up for the base price of the OS, but with Linux, you don't just get the OS.

Re:What they fail to mention

and never, ever think that gimp can take the place of photoshop.

Not everyone does professional-quality PAPER graphic design. For most Web work, GIMP is just fine.

-b.

I wonder..

Will dell, when they see that the sale of linux is not to great, check to see the sales of those exact models - since there is no actual reason to buy a linux pc from dell right now, I expect people to buy the windows version and wipe and install themselves.
At the time being there is no point in buying a linux dell, since it's the same price, and if you buy the windows one you get more; a windows license and a computer you know you can run linux on. What's the point of buying the linux one ?
(I know, I will probably buy the linux one, since I have no use for the windows, but it actually makes no sense to the average person to buy the linux one, since you get more for less/same price with the windows one)

I would have thought...

... that almost anyone clued in enough to decide that they want Ubuntu would be clued up enough to just buy the Windows version and install Ubuntu dual boot. Most linux users still have some use for windows and its lice to have it legally.

I wonder what discount could be had if there was a 'no support' option? I can't see regular home users queuing up to buy something they are unfamiliar with if the price is the same.

Re:I would have thought...

... that almost anyone clued in enough to decide that they want Ubuntu would be clued up enough to just buy the Windows version and install Ubuntu dual boot. Most linux users still have some use for windows and its lice to have it legally.

Well, tell ya what - I want Ubuntu, I want it on a laptop, and I think I'm clued up enough (been running linux for years; two Slackware servers and an Ubuntu desktop at home; I switched my work-machine from Windows to Ubuntu and then wrote a guide that nine other colleagues used to do the same).

I'm pretty confident that I've got the skills to buy the Windows machine from Dell, and switch it myself (though no, I wouldn't dual-boot, I have no use for Windows on it). I could probably find the right drivers for the GoofyCool wireless card, get the sleep function working, etc, etc, etc. As I said elsewhere, I've even got the money. So why don't I? To be honest, I really don't have the time. Married, kids, full-time job, plus other responsibilities. Something else would have to suffer - something that (and here I put my geek-card at risk) frankly, is more important than a new toy.

I don't want to shell out a grand or whatever and then have to spend time I don't have to turn the machine into what I actually needed in the first place. There is a time I would have, and would have relished the chance - but that time is long passed.

I'm a reasonably sophisticated Linux user, and even a Linux advocate - but in this case - I'm primarily a consumer with a need and the willingness to pay for it. The guy who offers to fulfill that need, gets the cash.

Price Subject to Change?

Retailer has new product and it's not priced dirt bottom. That's news?

It would be silly to introduce a new version of a product and sell it for less than an existing product.

If it were me, I'd start with the price up a little bit for two reasons. 1, less complaining when the price goes down versus up (yes, someone will complain on a price drop!). 2, with a higher price I have a cushion in case these things start selling like hotcakes and the volume murders my margin as I burn resources to keep up.

SOP, nothing to see here.

Re:Price Subject to Change?

According TFA, the prices are still cheaper (except the XPS) for the Ubuntu systems as long as you compare it to an Windows Vista Home Premium configuration (vs. the Home Basic).

It breaks down like this:

Linux preinstalled
E520 - $599
E1505n (notebook) - $599
XPS 410n - $899

Windows Vista Home Premium preinstalled
E520 - $679 ($369 for Home Basic)
E1505n (notebook) - $699 (for Home Basic)
XPS 410n - $899

The E520 and the E1505n are both cheaper by $80-$100 compared to the Vista Home Premium Edition (though the Windows notebook is actually cheaper even for Home Basic). That's still a good deal in my view.

Ok, reading these comments I'm confused...

One minute, Microsoft make most of their money through Windows OEM sales...

Now they're actually paying OEM's to have their software installed?

My personal guess is that Dell know this'll be a specialist product line, and that the extra money they would've spent on buying each copy of Windows is instead going towards Michael Dells' cigar allowance...unless of course it becomes a serious product line (which it might), and then you'll see a proper roll-out.

Dell and Walmart

Pretty funny that this happens at the same time start selling Dell PC's at Wal-Mart. Pretty desperate, I'm guessing.

Riding the wave of all the other sell-outs who disappeared.
Who's up next to bat?

Then I'd prefer...

to get the PC with Windows, download & burn Ubuntu, ask for the Windows Vista refund, install Ubuntu, and you get a better deal, don't you think?

Any projections of how well these will sell?

Has anyone done any formal projections of how well these are expected to sell?

What/who is the target market? From my (admittedly limited) point of view, there are only two types of users: Linux users and "everyone else". The Linux users, such as myself, already know how to install Linux, so they have no need to buy a machine with it pre-installed. Everyone else doesn't know any better, so they'll just stick with what they know (Windows) or what is most heavily advertised (again, Windows), and/or what is most readily available (not Linux).

I'm not trying to be a nay-sayer or suggesting that this is bad. It's definitely cool to see and a step in the right direction. But I'm just curious about the source of the demand for these machines. My worry is that Dell responded to a bunch of Linux zealots who didn't think the situation through, and thought that Dell offering machines with Linux pre-loaded would be enough to make this year "the year of Linux". But are the people who did all the talking now doing the buying? I hope so. It'd just be sad to see too few of these machines sell because the the whole strategy was only half-baked.

I mean, for our favorite stereotype, Joe Sixpack, if he's even aware of this machine with Ubuntu pre-loaded, why would he want to buy it? It's not any cheaper. We know Joe Sixpack isn't concerned with, or is at least ignorant of, software freedom (free speech). All his friends and family probably use Windows. I haven't bothered to check, but I'm sure Dell isn't heavily marketing the Linux advantages. I guess that leaves word of mouth. Hopefully, Joe Sixpack has a nephew or friend who is a Linux user (but not zealot) and can give him some simple, practical ideas why he wants Ubuntu over Windows.

It will definitely be fun to see where this goes! I'm curious how Microsoft execs feel about this. I wonder if Microsoft and Dell have had any arguments or ill-will about this? There's gotta be some juicy drama in there somewhere!

Meanwhile, in the UK...

We get a very mixed message. Searching Dell's UK site [dell.co.uk] for 'Ubuntu' brings up this page [dell.com], but if you go through all the options on the online store, Linux isn't there.

Reinvesting the Extra Profits

So Dell should be making about $100 more on the Ubuntu sales than on the Windows sales, on $600 revenue. If they profit 5% on the Windows machines, that's $30, so the $130 Ubuntu profit is 22% profit, or about 4.5x the profit from Ubuntu than from Windows.

Ubuntu support might cost more to start, since the labor pool is smaller and they have to start up the operation. The open source is a mixed bag, because it sees a new release to support every 6 months, not every 5 years for Windows, though unpredictable Windows service packs vs steady apt-get upgrades is a largely unknown economic. Little of Dell's support will be helped by Dell looking at the OS sourcecode, let alone fixing it. And it's hard to tell whether Ubuntu's smaller escalation target than Microsoft's is cheaper for backend support. But this new era should produce direct comparison of substantial support statistics where only the OS differs.

So this new OS line on identical HW is likely to generate substantially more profits and lots of FUD-dispelling support costs data for Dell. So I expect Microsoft has made a deal with Dell to subsidize Windows, and (if history is any guide) plenty of anticompetitive tricks to make Ubuntu look bad compared to Windows.

But the race is on! And that bigger profit margin should encourage Dell to heavily advertise Ubuntu, at least once they've got scaling numbers for their support costs.

I wonder if today will be the Linux equivalent to the day AOL gatewayed all its users to the Internet and Usenet. I hope not - the Internet has sucked since then.

Proof: Windows is negative value

Why else would the machines with windows cost less. Linux is free, so windows must add negative value to the machines.

We just need to push this on the press and give it the publicity it deserves.

linux.dell.com isnt new

linux.dell.com has been there for over a month now (not sure exactly how long). this is the first i've seen it with the Ubuntu logo, though. there's still very little information there. hopefully they'll do something with it in the future.

Microsoft Tax

I'm sure Dell still charge for a Windows licence even on these machines, rather than face the wrath of Microsoft.

I Don't See It

I don't see it... [comcast.net]

Wait. You mean I have to go to a special other website? linux.dell.com? This means you have to choose which operating system you want before you even begin. How the hell is some grandmother supposed to choose anything but Windows if there's no mention of Ubuntu anywhere on www.dell.com?

This is pathetic. I want to see Windows and Ubuntu next to one another on the choose operating system option menu so the consumers can see there are other options. This is depressing.

I hope Dell don't have big plans

...'cos after the initial bubble of nerds (with spare cash), whatever business they'll get with Ubuntu will be low-key. I think this is a 'sit-back-and-see-what-happens' scenario for Dell, or rather a 'sit-back-and-see-what-happens-and-hope-this-ventu re-didn't-involve-too-much-cash-in-the-first-place ' scenario.

In the future

I think that in the future we'll contentrate less on the O.S. and the core of our machines will be on the web. Computers will be more "thin box" and the difference if we have windows or linux or whatever will be less important.

3kg, same price as Microsoft, non-free hardware...

Right. So lets see if I can sum this up:

3kg laptop
Same price as the Windows install
Hardware is no more "free" than most Think Pads ( its an Intel chip set after all)

This is not a serious attempt. You are better off trying to get a refund from your Windows OEM license. Unless the argument is that Dell's website is easier to navigate than the Ubuntu installer this is rubbish. Way to screw it up Dell...

Price ranges

Dimenson E520n [dell.com] ranges from $289 - $399 with FreeDOS. Ubuntu base price is $599, difference is +$310.

XPS 410 [dell.com] ranges from $899 - $1699 with Vista. Ubuntu base is price is $899.

Inspiron E1505 [dell.com] ranges from $699 - $1,560 with Vista. Ubuntu base price is $599, difference is -$100.

Craplets

I don't see anyone referring to these pre-installed apps by their official name... Craplets.

Fuck, only in the US

My father wants to buy a notebook, and the Inspiron 1501 was ideal for him. At home, he runs already Debian (supported by me), and it gives him everything he needs. A Ubuntu notebook would have been the max.

Who Buys Computers?

Aside from my very first PC and my laptop, I've built them all. It's cheaper and almost always more bang for your buck. Plus, you don't have to deal with reinstalling the OS once you get it, as it's blank. No craplets, no "DELL" bios loading screen... It's just better. I can understand businesses, because they typically get bulk discounts and don't really care about what's running down in the task bar :P

Changing the rules of the game---in MSFT's favor?!

It just occurred to me that Microsoft has been accused of abusing their monopoly power by bundling applications with their operating system. E.g., IE versus Netscape, Windows Media Player versus RealPlayer, etc. (For anyone who's not familiar with this idea: Microsoft, due to their operating system monopoly status, has an unfair advantage in the applications market.)

Now, clearly you can build and ship an Ubuntu (or just about any other Linux distribution) machine pre-loaded with tons of free software. And that probably needs to happen to make Linux effective for the "unwashed masses".

But, is it possible for Microsoft to take a look at this, and use it as an excuse to start forcing more 3rd party software developers out of the market? If I remember correctly, Microsoft's defense to the monopoly abuse allegations has always been something like "but these applications are part of the operating system." Dell shipping Ubuntu plus a lot of applications kind of supports Microsoft's claim (in a weird, twisted way, which I'm sure Microsoft's well-paid lawyers could use to their advantage).

Dell Expecations for Linux

Dell expects to sell about 20,000 units annually. That's less than 1% of its overall consumer business. Anyone who had anything in their posts thinking that Dell was going to try to 'convert' customers from Windows to Linux is really just speculating in the absence of fact. Dell is attempting to add incramental market share to their consumer business by reaching out to a new market.

ATi?

Did anyone else notice that the base model on that laptop comes with an ATi card? This (given my experiences with ATi on Linux) seems like a BAD match for the preloaded Ubuntu laptop.

The only upside I can see is the rhetoric about better open source driver pressure coming from Dell (on the Direct2Dell page).

Anyone else nervous about this being Joe Sixpacks initial experience with Linux?

Well, so much for that idea....

The lack of lower pricing is going to kill this almost as fast as it can get out the door. One of the main pushes for Linux on commercial machines is the perception that they're paying that $100+ shelf price for Windows to be on the PC. If they're about the same price, who in their right mind wouldn't get the Windows version "just in case" and then just get a free copy of Ubuntu to load themselves? Sorry Dell, this isn't going to fly with most of your customers...

What's the point?

I almost wonder what the point of all this is. Linux fanboys have made such a fuss about Dell and other companies shipping Linux machines, but I find it hard to believe that the "do it yourself" Linux crowd would actually even consider buying a machine that's already been built. The laptop makes sense I guess, but the desktops don't.

Plus, for a group of people that make such a big deal about OS choice, they'd probably be likely to wipe off Ubuntu as soon as possible (if not for a newer version of Ubuntu when it's available or for their distro of choice). So why not just get the desktop with Windows? They're not more expensive, you just have to install Linux versus having it done for you.

Yeah I know, I'm being facetious. I know this is all purely a symbolic thing. A big name company is selling Linux boxes. Woo hoo. And they're going to stop selling these Linux boxes when Linux geeks either don't buy any (because they want to build their own machines) or the Linux geeks who buy one or two boxes just to show support, well, stop buying boxes. No one outside of the Linux world would care about these machines since they can just get one that has Windows for the same price.

Looking forward to first reviews

I want to buy one of those laptops, and look forward to the first reviews. Does the WiFi really work? Do sleep modes really work? Do the graphics modes really work? Did Dell preload adware? If the first few weeks of reviews indicate it's basically OK, I'm getting one.

Same support as Windows?

Dell is only offering hardware support, but the machines are priced the same as Windows boxes. I call that favoritism! I demand that Ubuntu Feisty be given the same excellent level of support that Microsoft offers it Windows customers.

Er, wait a minute ...

Ogg interview with the Linux Tech Mgr!

First, a FLOSS laptop. Now, posting their promo materials in an open format -- http://media.dellone2one.com/dell/May2007/Linux.og g [dellone2one.com] Way to go Dell!

Same price?

why is it the same price for a linux machine from them as a machine with Vista Premium installed? Doesn't this seem a little fishy?

Offtopic Grammar Snobbery

Grr. This really grinds my gears. An OS cannot be pre-installed and installed at the same time. Pre means BEFORE, not 'ahead of time'. Here is the test: if the term makes sense with pre replaced with "not yet" and still makes sense, then you're OK to use pre. Preinstall is a FVCKING NOUN, not a verb, it refers to a TIME, the time before the installation was complete. If i begin installing at noon, any time BEFORE noon is pre-install. From noon until the time the install is complete, i am install*ING*. All time after the installation is complete is POST-install(ation). The only time a car is pre-owned is while the dealership has it. Once someone buys it, it is OWNED. When someone sells it, it becomes POST-owned... used. This isn't hard stuff.

Why does this annoy me so? Mostly because i'm killing time at work. Journalists should not make this kind of mistake. People who get paid to write and went to college to write should not screw up parts of speech.

While i'm at it:

Utilize means 'use in a way other than it's intended purpose'. "I utilized a book as a doorstop".
Impact != Effect. The IMPACT of a bullet might have the EFFECT of killing you. /Going back to work now.

Dual Boot

I wish they would offer a dual boot option (Ubuntu/XP) but Microsoft doesn't allow that.

*sighs* yet another failed attempt

The Linux version of the PC is $599, the windows version is $369, that is $230 difference. Why would anyone try something new if it's going to cost them drastically more for the same machine?

You can make all the excuses you want. The lack of bundled software subsidies *yawn* I can purchase a windows-based PC from Dell and there is an option not to include the bundled crap and it doesn't cost extra.

Costs to put together a new machine and support procedures (Dell won't be supporting these but they do need put phone routes and procedures in place for handling the warranty calls). Sure, those are valid but price unless Dell is just gaining a few extra bucks from early adopters and intends to lower prices shortly their Linux attempt will fail again. If they are smart they could charge the same price for the PCs and recover their costs a little more slowly (after all, they do profit on a per machine basis). This will give them the Linux market foothold they need.

Instead they obviously want the same profit on each machine as the windows counterparts out of the gate. Bad Call. This is bad for Linux. There won't be any new drivers because Dell is only going to use already supported hardware and not push manufacturers to produce Linux drivers. There won't be increased adoption because nobody is going to pay more for the privilege of trying something new. It's bad for Dell because everything they invest in this attempt will be wasted. They won't recover their costs, they won't be a Linux desktop pioneer.

Obviously Dell still blames their previous failures on the lack of a Linux market instead of their own incompetence in implementation and Dell is destined to fail again for the same reasons they failed before. Michael Dell, listen before it is too late. It doesn't matter how large the Linux market grows, there will NEVER be a day when rolling out Linux support with non-standard models that come at increased prices will work.

It's here !!!

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/u buntu?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs [dell.com]
Go Ubuntu!

Cheaper, fully working, and targetted

There appears to be $100 price difference between the base Windows and Linux notebook model (with the Linux model being cheaper obviously).

In my opinion this a very substantial price difference, especially when you consider that the Linux laptop will ship with the modem drivers paid for and installed by Dell (according to Direct2Dell). Sounds like a very good deal to me!

IMHO Dell are trying to really have a go at fulfilling the needs of their Linux using customers, ok they aren't pushing these to Windows users, but why should they, they make their money by selling hardware, not operating systems and I am quite sure that provided you buy Dell, they don't care what the OS is.

I reckon that the notebook in particular will sell better than they expect, because in the past a lot of people installed linux on an ex-Windows notebook they already had. If it doesn't work, it is annoying, but not the end of the world. If you shell out $600 -$700 for a new notebook, how annoyed would you be to find that you couldn't get the wireless working. After all, it isn't like you can easily change the offending bit of hardware, like you can on a desktop. On top of all that if you install Linux on a new notebook, most of the time, you void the warranty. So what happens when you need to replace the old Linux installed Windows notebook with a new one, that you now know you want Linux on, instead of Windows? Well it looks like you buy Dell, if you want a good deal.

For people that want a Linux notebook this a safe bet that actually costs $100 less than the Windows equivalent and everything will work, even the modem. Dell should be congratulated on their efforts for Linux users and the speed with which they have made this happen.

Once these are released in the UK, I am absolutely going to buy one, no question!

Just ordered the laptop

I've been pretty excited about having this as an option, for one reason: I can be fairly certain this system is well tested and all the random stuff I usually have to hassle with (wireless card incompatibilities, suspend/resume, non-functional buttons, xorg.conf fiddling, etc. etc.) will either "just work" or will have well documented fixes pretty soon. $600 is a nice price point; I feel like I could recommend this to a lot more friends/family than I've been able to do in the past. The $100 discount vs. a windows variant is a nice plus; it'd be nice if it was an even larger discount, but at least I'm given the feeling that Microsoft ain't getting the MS tax this time. I wish they'd offered the 1405 with Ubuntu, it'd be nice to have a lower weight option, but I'm sure once they see overwhelming interest in this, they'll expand to more products.

Great....

I can already see the headlines now - "Dell called Linux nemesis by X, Y or Z", after they discontinue their desktop/laptop Linux PC sales for lack of consumer demand.

Anyone wanna bet on this? :) It's not a long bet, so come on... put your money where your mouth is.

I Just Bought One

I figured I'd vote with my wallet.

Dell is careful to make Linux look frightening.

Dell is careful not to convert any Windows users. If you go to dell.com [dell.com] and click on home > desktops, the pages have Microsoft logos but no Tuxes. Moreover, there is no mention of these Linux machines. They are careful to make certain no one buys one by mistake. And if some unsuspecting Windows user ends up on their Linux page [dell.com], they carefully warn them:

For advanced users and tech enthusiasts, we're happy to offer a new open-source operating system, so you can dive in and truly enjoy a PC experience just the way you want it.

and

The main thing to note is that when you choose open source you don't get a Windows® operating system. If you're here by mistake and you are looking for a Dell PC with Windows, please use the following link.

and finally

Already an Open Source fan? Choose from the following two options to get started, or keep reading to learn more about our open source offerings.

And just in case newbies are only looking at the pictures, they're sure to use images of machines that are not running X11, just to scare off any would-be Ubuntu wimp.

Linux should not be thought of as a Windows replacement, and Dell is sure to avoid the potential for careless customers to blame Dell for selling them what they accidentally ordered. And I personally am content for Linux to remain an OS "for advanced users and tech enthusiasts." But I know a lot of people in the community have viewed Dell's decision to sell Ubuntu as being one big step toward conquering Microsoft. There will be nothing but disappointment, as and Dell has ensured that Linux looks as frightening as possible to the average Joe.

$79 Price Difference on Mine...

though someone else quoted at $140 savings... details at http://technocrat.net/d/2007/5/24/20488/#L20498 [technocrat.net]

Reading comprehension

Read the first 5 words of the summary again.

Re:Next weeks headlines

Maybe...

However, that does make me wonder: why would Dell invest the money and time in developing a series of Linux computers (testing, support services, marketing, etc) if they weren't certain that it would be profitable?