Dell Linux Details

jon_anderson_ca writes "Dell, through their direct2dell website, has released some details of their soon-to-be-available Linux machines. Among the highlights: Only hardware that works with Linux is offered; open-source drivers are used where possible; binary drivers for Intel wireless cards, etc.; and no support for proprietary media codecs. Seems reasonable, but it's too bad that Click2Run isn't in Ubuntu 7.04 for the sake of those wanting to (legally) play DVDs, use AVI files, etc." The direct2dell site divulges no details on what models will be offered with Linux. For those we turn to linuxquestions.org, where proprietor Jeremy published a scoop last week: "We will be launching a Linux based OS (Ubuntu) on the E520, 1505 and XPS 410 starting next Thursday, 5/24."

But will they be cheaper?

[Animats (122034)]

The base Dell 1505 laptop is $699, with some low-end version of Windows Vista preinstalled. If the Linux version costs more than that, Dell isn't serious about this.

Re:But will they be cheaper?

[Jimmy King (828214)]

I would think we could look at their current Linux supported offerings, the PowerEdge line, to get an idea.

Base price is no OS.
+ $261 for RHEL5 w/ 1 year support
+ $785 for RHEL5 w/ 3 year support
+ $105 for Suse 10 EL w/ 1 year support
+ $262 for Suse 10 EL w/ 3 year support
+ $599 for Windows Server 2003 Standard
+ $974 for Windows 2003 SBS

This seems pretty in-line with what the pricing was when the company I work for bought a Linux compatible Optiplex last year.

With that in mind, I would imagine that the Ubuntu desktops will also be less expensive than the same desktop with Windows on it.

Re:But will they be cheaper?

[CastrTroy (595695)]

The difference is that the PowerEdge line is servers. You can't install crapware on a server. Any admin (I would hope) would promptly wipe the drive anyway and start over from scratch if you included anything close to crapware (or even if you didn't, just because they wanted to do everything from scratch). You can't compare the pricing on their servers to the pricing on their desktop machines, because they serve entirely different purposes, and entirely different markets.

Re:But will they be cheaper?

[by Anonymous Coward]

The difference is that the PowerEdge line is servers. You can't install crapware on a server.

Sure you can. Dell offers Windows pre-installed!

Re:But will they be cheaper?

[fishthegeek (943099)]

I'm suffering from Multiple Personality Disorder on the idea that the Linux laptop should be cheaper. On one hand it is financially cheaper for Dell to offer the machines without Windows. On the other hand Dell is probably offering more of a value to most people by vetting the hardware against the software before delivery.

Some of us have had the joy of getting wireless or sound working over the course of a week. Heaven help anyone trying to get power management on a laptop working well. I'm typing this on a 30 day old Acer and what power management I have working is a gross and inelegant hack. I jumped on ideastorm like a couple of other people did and said my peace. Having done that I intend to sell this laptop on craigslist, and buy a Dell preloaded with Feisty and I will pay the difference if I need to. I have the sneaking suspicion that most of the posts on ideastorm are "me too" posts or kids wanting to feel 1337. I hope I'm wrong. I hope that most of the posters are willing to put their money where their mouth is. I believe that having Dell add the value of making a good laptop with a great (and hardware vetted) OS will be worth what they ask. I feel a little naive for suggesting that Linux folks should trust Dell but Dell just might actually price their laptop fairly and I for one will pay for easy Feisty goodness. Look at System76, they sell Ubuntu preloaded and I can promise that they will never be the lower cost option.

Re:But will they be cheaper?

[lawpoop (604919)]

Seriously, how much can each craplet defray the cost of a new computer?

I don't know what the numbers are, but I would bet there is at least 1,000 installs for every eventual purchase of an app. If you paid $5 to have your app pre-installed, that would be $5,000 dollars before you got your first $79.99 sale.

The actual amount that each app brings down the cost of a laptop has got to be in the cents range.

Re:But will they be cheaper?

[MLS100 (1073958)]

Don't give up hope, maybe McAfee runs under Wine!

Re:But will they be cheaper?

[Daengbo (523424)]

From the Dell website [dell.com],

Michael's Computers

What kind of computer does Michael Dell have? See for yourself. These are the systems and peripherals Michael is using right now. If you want to learn more about these products, or purchase one of your own, visit the links.

At home: Dell Precision M90

Hardware:

* Intel Core 2 Duo T7600 Processor
* 4GB DDR2 667Mhz DRAM
* 17" WXGA+ Widescreen LCD
* 160GB 7200rpm SATA hard drive
* 8X DVD +/- RW optical drive
* NVIDIA Quadro FX 3500 512MB

Software:

* Ubuntu 7.04 Feisty Fawn
* VMWare Workstation 6 Beta
* OpenOffice.org 2.2
* Automatix2
* Firefox 2.0.0.3
* Evolution Groupware 2.10

It's the first computer listed. I suspect that support for Dell Linux laptops will be moving right along with MD's primary computer running Ubuntu 7.04.

Is it going to be completely Ubuntu?

[by Anonymous Coward]

Is Dell going to have their own repository? If people can get software from every repository it is possible that they will get something that doesn't work with the hardware. If Dell had its own repository then they would gain the same advantage that Apple has; the software would be guaranteed to work with the hardware. That would save them a bunch in support. That could make Linux much more attractive to Dell.

Re:Is it going to be completely Ubuntu?

[LevonB (1099459)]

They currently have a yum repository: http://linux.dell.com/repo/software/ [dell.com] I can only imagine they would have a debian based repository as well.

Re:Is it going to be completely Ubuntu?

[SavvyPlayer (774432)]

Ubuntu is updated every 6 months, and Dell has chosen the more cutting-edge 7.04 version over 6.06 for which Canonical had promised support for 3 years on the desktop and 5 years on the server. With Windows, Dell has been accustomed to supporting a relatively stagnant Windows kernel. To commit to supporting a Linux kernel that evolves every dozen weeks or so, and a software distro that evolves every 6 months will require active participation on Dell's part -- regular contributions to testing (n+1) and participation on the Ubuntu launchpad.net site. If Dell is going to contribute at that level it might as well simply become another full ubuntu mirror. Exciting prospects indeed.

But can it run....

[adez (967740)]

Erm, nevermind.

restricted extras

[Ash-Fox (726320)]

Seems reasonable, but it's too bad that Click2Run isn't in Ubuntu 7.04 for the sake of those wanting to (legally) play DVDs, use AVI files, etc."

Because start menu -> Add/remove programs -> Ticking 'ubuntu restricted extras' to get proprietary codecs, flash, java etc. is so much harder than 'Click2Run'.

Hmmm, not good

[GFree (853379)]

If Dell isn't going to be supplying support for proprietary media codecs (regardless of how easy it is to add them yourself), then this suggests to me Dell wasn't prepared to pay licensing costs to make this happen. I hope they provide instructions, or perhaps a script that runs the first time you boot into your Linux box that can auto-install these codecs, otherwise this will piss off a lot of people.

Re:Hmmm, not good

[Compholio (770966)]

I hope they provide instructions, or perhaps a script that runs the first time you boot into your Linux box that can auto-install these codecs, otherwise this will piss off a lot of people.

Supposedly they'll be shipping 7.04 (Feisty Fawn) which has a codec wizard [ubuntu.com]

Lose, Lose

[tyleroar (614054)]

I'm sick of reading all these comments about how horrible it is that Dell isn't going to include the proprietary codecs to play DVDs or mp3. It's not completely legal to do so now without paying a license fee. And if Dell did pay a licensing fee to include, people would be complaining about why it costs just as much as Windows does. And besides, it is VERY easy to look up instructions on how to add the capability to play those codecs online, and most people that care enough to specifically order a Linux Dell, are already going to know how to do this.

Sounds like they're doing it right

[bl8n8r (649187)]

I've never liked Dell, but they seem to be doing it right.

* The default software from the Ubuntu media will be installed
* hardware options thoroughly tested by the Linux team
* restricted drivers where there is no equivalent open-source driver.
* wiki page that gives technical details
* recommend Linux users buy Dell printers that have PostScript engines in them.
* We are evaluating options for providing (mp3/wma/etc codecs) this support in the future.

They're not rolling their own distro (hello Oracle), they're checking out the hardware focusing on GPL drivers wherever possible, documenting via wiki, recommending Postscript supported printers, and they aren't ruling out the *legal* mp3 support down the road. They seem to just be saying "We are trying to figure something out with this mp3 royalty mess". Not to mention, they *must* be pissing off Microsoft big-time. I bet Balmer has chairs tatooed with the Dell execs names on them, just waiting for the right time. That's not like Dell either, historically. They are usually just another little m$ bitch when Bill cracks the whip. Maybe this is a new era for Dell.

Re:Sounds like they're doing it right

[Redacted (1101591)]

Maybe they saw how Apple is making a metric assload of money selling a UNIX derivative, closely tied to decent hardware, and want a piece of it?

It's pretty far out there, but what if Dell are positioning themselves as an Apple for Linux - good hardware, guaranteed compatibility, support for installed packages, etc. I know a lot more people would consider Linux on the desktop/laptop if a name-brand, respected company like Dell were offering it.

Re:Sounds like they're doing it right

[Poppler (822173)]

Even better, they're going to push hardware vendors to write Linux drivers:

For hardware options not offered with this release, we are working with the vendors of those devices to improve the maturity and stability of their associated Linux drivers. While this may not happen overnight, we do expect to have a broader range of hardware support with Linux over time.

Damn, no WUXGA laptop

[dara (119068)]

Well if this is the lineup ("We will be launching a Linux based OS (Ubuntu) on the E520, 1505 and XPS 410 starting next Thursday, 5/24." from Jeremy's Blog), I guess I have to wait longer. I'm only interested in WUXGA - the 15.4" Latitude D830 would have been nice, but I'd have considered the E1705 too. If I have to buy an unsupported model and install Linux myself, there is less incentive to pick Dell in the first place.

I seconded ideas on ideastorm that suggested Dell get rid of this stupid division between Latitude and Inspiron, but who knows if that will ever happen. Just a single line of well built laptops in a few different screen sizes is all we need (it works for Apple and if Dell wants to entire the retail market seriously, it would help to have a reduced model line).

Dara

Really...

[BlurredOne (813043)]

I know that this does not apply to all of the threads in here, but I need to get something out.

Is there anything that any hardware or software vendor can do that will make the /. community happy? This isn't meant as flamebait or a troll, it is a genuine questions. Dell is taking a step in the right direction by offering Linux on select systems, and some of you seem to be taking this as a personal afront because Dell doesn't cater to all of your whims. This is the start of them offering Linux publically on their systems. It will take some time for Dell to get everything worked out. Please, if you want Dell to continue to offer Linux on their systems, don't criticize them for the initial offering, support them. Go onto the Direct2Dell site and let them know what you would like in future releases. Contribute to the process, don't complain when something that you never asked for isn't included.

Noone gets it right the first time, and if they did, we would still be using the alpha of Ubuntu.

Re:Proprietary Codecs?

[wellingj (1030460)]

I just installed Debian Etch on my new Thinkpad. Debian is one of the most free distros around.
mp3 mpg avi divix all worked out of the box. I had to install [blogspot.com] 1 package and DVD is now working.

Re:Proprietary Codecs?

[CastrTroy (595695)]

There's a couple options for you.

1) Install a 32 bit browser, along with a bunch of 32 bit libraries. Downside is this takes up extra disk space for the 32 bit libraries, and your browser is only 32 bit. Upside is the rest of your computer is 64 bit, and I don't really think there's a real need to have your browser running in 64 bit.

2) Wine at Adobe until they release 64 bit flash for linux. I think this will be a while, considering they completely skipped version 8 for Linux, and I'm pretty sure version 9 is still in beta.

Re:Support DREAM

[mhall119 (1035984)]

Heh, you must not use Ubuntu 7.04.

Here's how it would actually work...

Customer gets WMV file from his kid.
Customer double-clicks WMV file, or right-clicks and selects "Open with Movie Player"
Ubuntu: This file requires additional codecs to play, would you like me to install them?
Customer: Yes please
(wait 1 minute)
Ubuntu: All done, enjoy your movie!
Customer happily watches their WMV.

The next day, Customer sends his Windows kid some awesome Theora file...

97 billion USD can buy a big chunk of the MPAA

[tepples (727027)]

All the gold in Ft Knox would not be enough to get a license from the DVDCCA

The bullion depository at Fort Knox [wikipedia.org] holds 147 million troy ounces of gold. At 660 USD per ounce, that makes 97 billion USD. This is more than enough to buy a controlling interest in The Walt Disney Company, News Corporation, and Viacom Inc., and spin out their film divisions.