Dell Partners with MS/Novell for Linux Servers

untouchableForce writes "Dell has announced that it will join forces with Microsoft and Novell to "make it easier for the Windows operating system and the [...] Linux [operating] system to work together." This is not overly surprising given Dell's good relationship with Microsoft, and since they already sell SUSE Linux on some of their servers, but it is likely to put a stop to the OSS community's celebration of them distributing Ubuntu. The debate over partnership between Microsoft and Novell has been drawn out since the deal was signed and for some this will add additional fuel to the fire but shouldn't the OSS community be reading this as an acceptance of Company's acknowledgment of Linux?"

This deal also.....

.... Likely limits the chances of Dell being sued because of some sort of IP related issue. These days, it's all about covering your A**.

Re:This deal also.....

Indeed - I see it as a major step towards Dell selling Linux on a larger scale.

OTOH, I sincerely hope this isn't going to become a pattern, where MSFT makes bank every time an OEM moved towards Linux. Something about it just seems plain wrong, and looks like an admission of guilt towards a contention that probably does not exist (the assertion of MSFT somehow owning IP to Linux or OS tech).

/P

Re:This deal also.....

I do have a problem with Microsoft getting something for every PC sold with Linux. But, that said, it is a much better situation than every PC comming with Windows.

Re:This deal also.....

OTOH, I sincerely hope this isn't going to become a pattern, where MSFT makes bank every time an OEM moved towards Linux.

In conventional terms, this is known as a "protection racket" and it is quite illegal. Not that the law ever stopped Microsoft before...

Ideastorm topic added

I have added this concern to Dell's Ideastorm.

http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/67008/Dont_i mply_Microsoft_IP_in_Linux [ideastorm.com]

Anyone concerned about Dell's involvement in this MS/Novell pact should promote and comment on it.

Re:Mod Parent UP

Would be nice if we could get an actual statement and maybe even an interview with Michael Dell here.

Quite right, between this, and Dell's decision to offer Ubuntu on desktops, it's about time for an slashdot interview with Michael Dell. Any idea how to get this started?

Re:This deal also.....

Exactly the opposite - if they're suggesting they need a patent deal like this to be allowed to distribute Linux, then they are not allowed to distribute it - see the GPL (For example, if a patent license would not permit royalty-free redistribution of the Program by all those who receive copies directly or indirectly through you, then the only way you could satisfy both it and this License would be to refrain entirely from distribution of the Program).

It would open them up to GPL violation law suits.

Oy Carumba

shouldn't the OSS community be reading this as an acceptance of Company's acknowledgment of Linux?

I suppose an OpenSource deal with the Devil is still an OpenSource deal, so why look a gift horse in the mouth (even if it is one of the four horses of the apocalypse)?

Re:Oy Carumba

i agree about the four horses part. M$ doesnt want to embrase linux as much as they want to extinguish. as someone else pointed out, they eventually want to make people think they (or novell by partnership) are the only ligitimate linux distributors and all others are unofficial/unsupported. I can see the add: "free linux distros come and go. run and you risk being left with out tech support. we're M$ and we're your linux source."

Bill the Borg

from CNet article [com.com]

Dell will also establish a services and marketing program to migrate existing Linux users who are not Dell Linux customers [com.com] to Suse Linux, Microsoft said.

Embrace and extend.

Good news

The MS Active Directory system and Exchange is what keeps MS shops locked in. Lately, the Active Directory integration has improved with new wizards from Redhat and Mandriva, but the Exchange front still sucks.

In our datacenter, Dell's doing well with Linux

It used to be like pulling teeth to get anywhere next to current drivers and software for Linux, but over the last few years, it's just as good as Windows. Man, it sucked to have to boot a server in Windows or visit it with a USB floppy drive in order to update firmware. I see this move as a good thing. Dell realizes they sell more boxes with better Windows AND Linux support than with good support for just one of these...

What's really going on here?

Something still doesn't make sense in this cluster of partnerships.

Microsoft said it would offer corporate customers a chance to license its Windows operating system as part of a package that includes maintenance and support for Novell's Suse Linux platform.

This strikes me as a strange statement. This is like offering a chance to lease a Ford with every Honda maintenance.

I get that Dell might see patent immunity as an advantage, but if Microsoft gives patent immunity to everyone, then this contradicts the proposed strategy of using patents as a weapon. Giving patent immunity to Novell was simply an empty gesture, of course. But if cards fall right Dell could actually become a substantial distributer of preinstalled Linux systems. With too many of these deals, patents can no longer be used against Linux, contradicting a plan Microsoft had stated a desire for for some time.

While patent immunity for Linux installations is a good result, I'm not primed to expect good results from Microsoft after a history of them not acting in such a manner. So I am still left wondering what is going on behind the scenes here.

No.

This should be read as the first nail in the coffin of linux. There is no way that MS will let any other distribution but suse exist; and only then for as long as it takes to kill off ubuntu, etc.

Killing the open document format, getting linux pushed off the OLPC project and off of Dell...these should all be seen as signs that Microsoft is serious about eliminating Linux (and Free Software) with extreme prejudice.

Any win for Novell is a loss for Free Software; particularly in this case.

Re:No.

GNOME, sure, but KDE? Granted, I'm lazy and haven't done any research, but what's gone KDE's way while Novell pumps GNOME?

Novell bought Ximian, and that has resulted in significant contributions to GNOME from Novell via the Ximian staff. Novell also bought SUSE, and that has resulted in significant contributions to KDE from Novell via the SUSE staff (since SUSE was one of the major contributors of KDE code). Think of it this way: Novell, unlike Redhat, has been quite seriously pursuing the corporate desktop (Redhat has been halfheartedly pursuing it at best, and instead focusing on servers); that has involved quite a bit of user testing and usability studies, the results of which can be applied to both desktops.

Re:No.

There is no way that MS will let any other distribution but suse exist

There is no way for MS to stop other distributions from existing.

There's a demand for MS-Helped Linux

In the world, there are many companies who like the idea of Linux and love its cost, but do worry about compatibility issues. Those companies get all warm and fuzzy inside when they hear news releases like this because they think "oh, someone is making sure that isn't a problem".

Whether it is a problem or not, IT people at companies often like the path of least resistance (don't we all) and so paying a little money for something they have to worry less about it a good thing to them.

I don't like Novell cozying up to M$ any more than anyone on /., but I understand why they're doing it - they're customers want compatibility guarantees and protection from IP disputes. The only real way to break ourselves of deals like this is with legislation for open-standards and IP-law reform. Those two would mean that companies using Linux would have no fear about using the OS - even if those fears today are simply in their heads.

This isn't for the home segment...

From TFA:
On Sunday, Microsoft and Novell said Dell has agreed to buy Suse Linux Enterprise Server certificates from Microsoft and that the computer maker will set up a services and marketing program aimed at getting users of open-source platforms to switch to the new Suse Linux offering.

"Dell is the first major systems provider to align with Microsoft and Novell in this collaboration, and we intend to lead in this space," Rick Becker, a vice president in Dell's product group, said in a statement.

The pact between Microsoft and Novell is primarily aimed at the growing number of major companies and government agencies that rely on both Redmond, Wash.-based Microsoft's patent-protected Windows and Novell's open-source Linux platform to run their computers....

Home PCs will still likely run Ubuntu.
There's hardly any point running Enterprise Servers (which is nothing but marketing speak, anyway) in one's Home PC.
And nothing can prevent corporates from installing Dell's Ubuntu-based Home offerings in company networks.

Am I missing somethign???

Why does Dell have to purchase Suse Linux Enterprise Server certificates from Microsoft? I haven't touched SuSe since Novell bought them... So I'm a little bit behind... Was MS & Novell already working together? "Microsoft has promised not to file patent-rights lawsuits over any of its technology that's blended with Suse Linux."

So now what?

So I was all geared up to buy a Dell system preloaded with Linux.. Then they go and jump into bed with Microsoft.

So do we support linux and continue to support Dell? or do we shun them and kill off any hopes for pre-installed Linux?

I say screw em.. Linux will make it to the desktop eventually.

Another choice?

I've just read the article and if it adds Suse in addition to Redhat, that means that on quite a lot of hardware you will have the choice of Redhat, suse and ubuntu. That is in addition to M$ stuff. So thats a whole lot of choice. 3 potential linux's leaving the factories installed.

Dell - wake up !

You were just about to score a MAJOR open source gig with the ubuntu thing, not only making you a pioneer in a new field of linux on mass market desktops, but also endearing you to the ominously large developer community that works on open source.

do not just scratch all your gains with one stupid deal with microsoft/novell misfortune. even novell regret it since 2 days after they signed it.

Microsoft Linux Enterprise Server certificate ..

'Microsoft is purchasing and redistributing [nwsource.com] Suse Linux Enterprise Server certificates under the deal'

So basically certain companies are paying Microsoft to use their own SuSE software. What Novell are doing is legitimizing MS claim to Linix IP rights. A precident of gigantic and enormous consequences. Novell basically gave away their business under vague threats of IP violations. I can see what Microsoft got out of the deal, but I can't for the life of me see what Novell gets out of it.

An analogy, I'm the CIO of Corleone olive oil business and out of the blue the New Jersey Mob phones me up and say I am violating their patented recipe . But they say, lets do a deal, we'll promise not to sue and give you the rights to continue to distribute our patented recipe and in return we'll purchase 'certificates' to distribute Corleone olive oil.

Next thing I know people are ringing me up asking why they should be paying me for New Jersey olive oil. Before ya know it I am out of the olive oil business. The Jersey crew offer to buy out my business at a rock bottom price and to let me stay on as CEO, if I don't go squealing to the the FEDs. Years later people would ask me why I gave away the family business to a shister extortionist - without raising a finger.

And this is news because?

Okay. So it's news. Someone else has officially jumped into the plutonium-laced hot tub built by MS & Novell. But folks, Dell has been a Microsoft shill for so long that this really isn't that surprising. The only aspect of this story whose betting outcome was in doubt until now was how long before they joined it.

Meanwhile, be sure not to use breakpoints or linked lists unless you're running on Dell hardware, or running an operating system from Microsoft or Novell. Especially now that you know that there are patents out on them -- paying a bill three times is three times as annoying. Oh yeah. That's the kind of world I wanted this to end up being. (Note: this paragraph was meant to be sarcasm and satire, without sufficient connection with legal realities to be taken as advice or even a valid warning)

cheers...ank

Will SuSe become the "Windows ME" of nix?

... Forget what I was going to say.

Ubuntu/Dell may not be Dead

Read the article - This deal affects Suse Linux Enterprise Server. This is no surprise; Microsoft has acknowleged that Linux has market strength on servers, and knows it must coesist with Linux in that space. MS, however, would not support adoption of Linux on desktops, which this deal doesn't address. No one can know for sure, but if Dell still has any intention of addressing the desktop Linux market demand, they may still use Ubuntu to do this independent of this MS/Novell deal.

As they say, be careful what you ask for

You may get it.

The goal of having Linux preinstalled on computers has been perverted and twisted into this. This is a very sad day for open source. Novell's already starting to be minimized by their "ally." Nothing good will come of this. At the very least, it continues the "Microsoft tax" mentality. At the worst, it gives M$ the (sorry for using this word) leverage they want in twisting the truth and invalidating Linux as a platform.

And the way folks on Slashdot are reacting, it's a necessary evil to get Linux on computers... Sorry, people, you are wrong. It hasn't been preinstalled on any major vendor's PCs up till now and it's still got the market share it does. It will continue to be installed by end users.

Think about it - do you want M$ to be in charge or your preinstalled version of Linux?

This is a very dark day. Laugh at me now, but in a few years, remember you read this....

This must be the "Embrace" step.

Ok, Microsoft always seems cute during the "Embrace" step of the plan. The other two are the fun ones though.

Aha!

That's one way to avoid pissing off Mr. Gates: insure he wins no matter what. Which is pretty-much his business philosophy.

Any chance of Ubuntu supported on servers

In all these Dell linux announcements, has anyone heard anything about Ubuntu becoming a supported configuration for Dell servers? (Supported by Dell, I mean.)

I don't care if they come with ubuntu

I'm happy to scrape off whatever OS they installed, and install Ubuntu myself. Especially because you know Dell would just find some way to crap it up anyway, so even if they do install Ubuntu, I'm not using their install.

The OSS community should be reading this as ...

... Microsoft's acknowledgment of Ubuntu being a threat.

Wha?

...but it is likely to put a stop to the OSS community's celebration of them distributing Ubuntu.

The OSS community is celebrating the fact that a Linux distro is getting commercial recognition, I dunno why this would stop it. Were there people in the OSS community celebrating because they really thought that Dell would stop distributing Windows all together??

Jeez, I hope nobody was that dense.

Since the Novell/Microsoft deal is utterly

irrelevant to anybody with a brain (which leaves out the FSF fanatics, of course), this Dell deal is irrelevant to anything as well - except possibly that it might indicate Dell is more interested in distributing Linux than it was previously.

OTOH, as others have suggested, it may simply be that Microsoft made noises at Dell about the Ubuntu deal, so Dell's lawyers came up with a way to blunt that somewhat.

In the end, it's all corporate bullshit and means nothing to anybody else.

"Dude, you bought a Dell" (with or without Ubuntu) is still relevant.

Open Source Crowd-WTF?

Look at this way: Finally, Linux is making some headway, and people are complaining. Please look at the big picture. Today, Dell is using the Novell/MS Linux. Tomorrow, another large scale manufacturer will use Ubuntu...maybe HP? Believe it or not, competition makes the world spin, and it's about time the open source community realizes it. As Mick Jagger said, "You can't always get what you want...sometimes you just might find you get what you need."

dude,

you're getting a shell?

Wow this article isn't biased at all

"Novell's open-source Linux platform".

This article gives the reader the distinct impression (read: presents as fact) that Linux is a program created by Novell. In fact it distinctly hints at the fact that there are in fact two operating systems in existence: Microsoft Windows and Novell Linux.

It's a good thing those two are finally working together to make the world a better place. For great justice.

What really happened:

Microsoft was caught off-guard by Dells move to put Linux on their machines. Microsoft was simply not expecting them to do it. Now that they realize that Dell is serious about it, they offered Dell kickbacks in order to put Microsoft/Novell software on the machines instead of the free-as-in-beer Ubuntu Linux so they can keep control over their customer base.

Re:What really happened:

They'll probably throw in some MSN.com links on the SUSE desktop.

Re:Free as in Freedom, good sir

It's ridiculous to call the software they produce and distribute free as in beer. They contribute upstream, they release all their source, they give redistribution rights, they don't discriminate on field of endeavor.

They are allowing FREEDOM (ie use the software you need if none that support the 4 freedoms are available). Isn't it less free to turn your nose up at something than to inform your users of the licensing issues, let them know they won't get support, and let them use their computers the way THEY see fit?

What definition of FREEDOM do you have that restricts users rights to use something in the name of "freedom"?

That, in my estimation, is freer than a restrictive definition of freedom. Freedom should never take rights away, only add guarantee that you won't take them away from others.

Re:Dang.

Beware of geeks bearing gifts?

Re:This Is Getting Fun

Probably useless speculations as all drafts of the GPLv3 have no direct effect on Novell; see http://www.novell.com/prblogs/?p=310 [novell.com].

Re:This Is Getting Fun

this could be just the fracturing of the market Microsoft is waiting for. They'll have a couple of years getting some of their big customers accepting Microsoft/Novell/Suse Linux and then BANG, GPL3 starts showing the fracturing of the GNU/Linux market. Microsoft will be sitting on the sidelines saying, "I told you so. Put your wallet down right here and come back to mama."

Businesses need to stay away from Novell/Suse Linux. IMO.

LoB

Re:Unspoken message: No Ubuntu on Dell servers...

because acting like the RIAA and going after home users would make for some bad press for Microsoft and you're not going to get much putting a billion dollars worth of lawyers against a home user. Now, line those lawyers up against Home Depot, Lowes, Manny-Moe-Jack, etc and there's gold be squeezed out of them. The press and public wouldn't be so concerned with this since it doesn't look like a David vs Goliath kind of battle.

I'm with you on how Mark Shuttleworth must feel. But he didn't get "owned", he's been "had" since being "owned" would imply a takeover or massive lost of control. He's just not going to get much out of this.

There is definitely something bad going on here. Just the fact that Microsoft added the patent protection section to the Novell deal at the last minute and then turned around and proclaimed it the primary purpose for the agreement tells you they have a nasty plan being brewed. Heck, seeing the press say that "Microsoft announce....Linux deal...." is enough to step back and ask WTF is going on.

LoB

Re:This Is Getting Fun

If the software does not specify a certain version of the GPL, then you are free to use any of them. If you specify a GPL version number, then you are also free to allow the "or any later version" clause as well, but it is not necessary. In fact part of the reason people were so terrified about GPLv3 being possibly incompatible with GPLv2 was because the Linux kernel does not have the "or any later version" clause, so it will always be locked to GPLv2 unless Linus can track down each and every contributor to authorize the change.

However, as I understand it, this shouldn't affect your notion that the v2 fork will be absorbed back into v3 code.

Re:I can hear the screaming now!

Some people are "bitching" or discussing this because there is no way in hell that Microsoft is doing this for the money they'll get from Linux/Novell/etc. They have a plan to stop the migration and growth of Linux and opensource software and this Microsoft/Novell/Suse deal is the cornerstone of this plan, with Dell being another brick in the cog in the plan.

This is not good for Linux and open source software and any deal with Microsofts backing can be. THIS is why it is being discussed IMO and there is great reason it should be discussed for the foreseeable future. As good as it may seem to be for Linux drivers etc in the short term, there is a tripping point/stone being put inplace by Microsoft and it needs to be identified. Remember BayStar? People didn't keep quite about that and sure enough, it was eventually found out that Microsoft was behind it and BayStar backed out the best they could.

So people, don't lay down and wait for the Microsoft to screw over Novell and its Suse Linux customers. Something or someone will leak out the plan behind this "madness" eventually. IMO

LoB

Re:Can you hear the Death Knell?

If I had a dollar for everytime someone said, "Novell is Dead" I would be richer then Bill gates.

They have a Market Cap of 2.4 BILLION

Yep they are gonna be broke by the end of the year. Microsoft will own SUSE & DELL too!

Any other stupid predictions??