Dell Partners with MS/Novell for Linux Servers 193
untouchableForce writes "Dell has announced that it will join forces with Microsoft and Novell to "make it easier for the Windows operating system and the [...] Linux [operating] system to work together." This is not overly surprising given Dell's good relationship with Microsoft, and since they already sell SUSE Linux on some of their servers, but it is likely to put a stop to the OSS community's celebration of them distributing Ubuntu. The debate over partnership between Microsoft and Novell has been drawn out since the deal was signed and for some this will add additional fuel to the fire but shouldn't the OSS community be reading this as an acceptance of Company's acknowledgment of Linux?"
This deal also..... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:This deal also..... (Score:5, Insightful)
OTOH, I sincerely hope this isn't going to become a pattern, where MSFT makes bank every time an OEM moved towards Linux. Something about it just seems plain wrong, and looks like an admission of guilt towards a contention that probably does not exist (the assertion of MSFT somehow owning IP to Linux or OS tech).
Re:This deal also..... (Score:5, Insightful)
I do have a problem with Microsoft getting something for every PC sold with Linux. But, that said, it is a much better situation than every PC comming with Windows.
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Well, me too. But the problem is the US legal system, really - note that Fraunhofer, Alcatel and likely Novell and IBM make money from every Windows PC sold. Merely as a simple consequence of the current patent system. Blame the legislators and those that lobbied for it (which includes Microsoft, of course).
Anyhow, the real issue is that Microsoft see Linux as a rising force in the industry. They are therefore moving to p
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Given that Ubuntu includes Mono by default, I'm almost certain it does include patented Microsoft technology. Does anyone seriously doubt that?
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I see:
And as for the other stuff it says:
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Because without a strategy they would be problems. With one, they aren't.
Re:This deal also..... (Score:5, Informative)
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Ideastorm topic added (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/67008/Dont_
Anyone concerned about Dell's involvement in this MS/Novell pact should promote and comment on it.
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So could it be that much like how Dell kept playing AMD against Intel for 4 or 5 years to get great pricing and ki
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In the end, if this was
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First, Novel has never implied that linux contains Microsoft's IP. In fact, they have specifically stated that they aren't aware of any infringements and the entire patents arrangement came as an offering from Microsoft. They also have specifically stated that discussion of IP in linux never came about during their deal.
Second, the sales of MS windows l
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Ok, fair enough. Though I would have preferred you post your objections to the Ideastorm article so that the objections could be noted and explained (as I am about to do) for others to read before voting on it.
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Now I am not a lawyer, and if you are I will concede the point to you, but this reads to me as saying that you cannot distribute a GPLv3 prog
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Ok, I went back and read the 3rd draft. I still think you're reading it wrong:
This clearly limits "a covered work" to only those in which you are a party to an agreement requiring royalties or patent li
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If I am, then a lot of other people are too. Here is just one of my conversations over this. Follow the discusion down to Bruce Perens and mine [slashdot.org]. It gives the express implication of this. Bruce Perens specifically states, The new GPL3 provision says that if you arrange to protect any party from patents regarding the software, that protection has to apply to everyone. The problem is, Dell is doing just this by selling the Novell-
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Again, that seems to only implicate code licensed under the GPLv3 that is covered by that patent protection. You don't have to give patent protection to all GPLv3 software, just the ones you claim contain your patent. So if Microsoft gives Novell patent protection on, using your example, MS Exchange proto
Re:Mod Parent UP (Score:4, Interesting)
Quite right, between this, and Dell's decision to offer Ubuntu on desktops, it's about time for an slashdot interview with Michael Dell. Any idea how to get this started?
Re:This deal also..... (Score:5, Informative)
Exactly the opposite - if they're suggesting they need a patent deal like this to be allowed to distribute Linux, then they are not allowed to distribute it - see the GPL (For example, if a patent license would not permit royalty-free redistribution of the Program by all those who receive copies directly or indirectly through you, then the only way you could satisfy both it and this License would be to refrain entirely from distribution of the Program).
It would open them up to GPL violation law suits.
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As I said, I don't understand how it isn't in violation (and I'd like to see someone explain it). But apparently it isn't.
Oy Carumba (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Oy Carumba (Score:4, Insightful)
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Well, actually the ARE the only distribution that will be officially supported by MS to work with Windows. If Linux ever takes off in a big way, then I would bet a large amount of money that Novell/MS is going to be the industry standard for Linux for that reason, alone.
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Even if the IP thing is a red hearing, even if Microsoft meant it, and it is now pretty much tossed out by the Supreme Court. Novell having a deal with Microsoft AND now being the only official version of linux to work with Microsoft products AND now having DELL load SUSE on servers. I would say Microsoft has finally found a way to survive in a linux world.
As long as Novel and Microsoft has a deal, Microsoft provides support and the big boys DELL/HP only sell servers
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What's going to happen is that as soon as Dell is known for it's linux support, the FSF will release the final version of the version 3 GPL andall hell is going to break loose.
The FSF will move all their stuff to GPLv3, Most distros will follow, including Ubuntu which will place Dell into violation unless it maintains an old version but they a
Look.... (Score:2)
Bill the Borg (Score:2, Interesting)
Embrace and extend.
Novell SUSE is now MS Linux. (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh grow up. (Score:3, Interesting)
GP: Dell has agreed to buy Suse Linux Enterprise Server certificates from Microsoft
P: SUSE has become MS Linux. Thanks a lot, Novell.
That's the way business works in the real world.
You subcontract to a subcontractor who subcontracts to a sub-subcontractor who subcontracts to a sub-sub-subcontractor who subcontracts to... until eventually the circle is completed and someone subcontracts the final assembly to a different division within your very own company.
If you really want your precious little GP
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Microsoft doesn't seem to think that linux is "little," and neither does Novell. If they did, they wouldn't have spent so much legal time trying to find a way to circumvent the GPL terms meant to preserve the integrity of the community system in which linux and the applications
I predicted this two months ago (Score:2)
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Too bad for them.
I am a senior admin at a data center which is home to thousands of Dell servers, many of which run Linux. Our standard Linux build uses CentOS [centos.org] and therefore we order the machines with "no operating system installed." If Dell approaches us and tells us that they're going to forcibly move us over to Microsoft Linux (aka Novell/Ximian/SuS
Good news (Score:4, Interesting)
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Also samba 4 should be a vast improvement AD wise.
Exchange == ripoff (Score:2)
In our datacenter, Dell's doing well with Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
What's really going on here? (Score:5, Interesting)
This strikes me as a strange statement. This is like offering a chance to lease a Ford with every Honda maintenance.
I get that Dell might see patent immunity as an advantage, but if Microsoft gives patent immunity to everyone, then this contradicts the proposed strategy of using patents as a weapon. Giving patent immunity to Novell was simply an empty gesture, of course. But if cards fall right Dell could actually become a substantial distributer of preinstalled Linux systems. With too many of these deals, patents can no longer be used against Linux, contradicting a plan Microsoft had stated a desire for for some time.
While patent immunity for Linux installations is a good result, I'm not primed to expect good results from Microsoft after a history of them not acting in such a manner. So I am still left wondering what is going on behind the scenes here.
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No. (Score:4, Insightful)
Killing the open document format, getting linux pushed off the OLPC project and off of Dell...these should all be seen as signs that Microsoft is serious about eliminating Linux (and Free Software) with extreme prejudice.
Any win for Novell is a loss for Free Software; particularly in this case.
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* Microsoft has explicitly mentioned that its deal with Novell is not exclusive
* Novell has done more for OSS over the years than you can possibly imagine; do a little Googling. They're still the biggest contributors to GNOME and KDE, and pipe incredibly significant development
Re:No. (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:No. (Score:5, Insightful)
There is no way that MS will let any other distribution but suse exist
There is no way for MS to stop other distributions from existing.
kill off Linux? (Score:2)
This should be read as the first nail in the coffin of linux. There is no way that MS will let any other distribution but suse exist; and only then for as long as it takes to kill off ubuntu, etc.
And pray tell, how will this kill off Linux? There's just no way MS can kill linux. They may, just may, gain control over one of the distros but there are many others. Hell even Larry Elison's company Oracle is releasing thier own compleat servers with software, the OS being based on Redhat. If Balmer and/or
There's a demand for MS-Helped Linux (Score:4, Interesting)
Whether it is a problem or not, IT people at companies often like the path of least resistance (don't we all) and so paying a little money for something they have to worry less about it a good thing to them.
I don't like Novell cozying up to M$ any more than anyone on
Correction - why Novel sold (everyone) out (Score:3, Informative)
IMO, you are helping Novell out by repeating this myth. The main reason why Novell sold everyone out is because they were cash strapped. Novell was in serious debt, and that $350 Million from Microsoft offered them a way out.
Anything they said about customers was just at best secondary, and likely just a convenient excu
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Alas, no. (Score:2)
http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7235986827.html [linux-watch.com]
Note the following:
"Novell, it appears, may need those funds. This news comes just one day following rumors, still unconfirmed by Novell, that the Linux company had laid off some employees. In addition, Novell announced on Nov. 6, for the third time, that it was extending its deadline to get the holders of its Convertible Senior Debentures to not demand immediate payment o
This isn't for the home segment... (Score:4, Informative)
On Sunday, Microsoft and Novell said Dell has agreed to buy Suse Linux Enterprise Server certificates from Microsoft and that the computer maker will set up a services and marketing program aimed at getting users of open-source platforms to switch to the new Suse Linux offering.
"Dell is the first major systems provider to align with Microsoft and Novell in this collaboration, and we intend to lead in this space," Rick Becker, a vice president in Dell's product group, said in a statement.
The pact between Microsoft and Novell is primarily aimed at the growing number of major companies and government agencies that rely on both Redmond, Wash.-based Microsoft's patent-protected Windows and Novell's open-source Linux platform to run their computers....
Home PCs will still likely run Ubuntu.
There's hardly any point running Enterprise Servers (which is nothing but marketing speak, anyway) in one's Home PC.
And nothing can prevent corporates from installing Dell's Ubuntu-based Home offerings in company networks.
So now what? (Score:2)
So do we support linux and continue to support Dell? or do we shun them and kill off any hopes for pre-installed Linux?
I say screw em.. Linux will make it to the desktop eventually.
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Now you build your own machine and put whatever distribution of linux you want on it. Why the hell is preinstallation so important?
Because, unlike the average /.er, most people don't install an OS, they buy a computer with an OS already installed. They just want to get it home, plug it in, and boot it up then use it. Unless and until Linux promoters understand this Linux will never have much of a market share for the desktop.
FalconRe: (Score:2)
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By definition, a system that I don't have control over doesn't "work."
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Since when did mice have firmware?
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the question you should be asking is how good of a bedfellow has Dell been these days and what has been the pillowtalk more recently. Especially with the Ubuntu/Canonical deal and now this Microsoft/Novell/S
Ron Paul (Score:2)
Ron Paul in '08 - A true small government republican
Ron Paul gets my vote, again. I'm registered no party affiliation now but when the primaries roll around I'll switch to Republican just so I can vote for him then, then I'll switch back afterwards.
FalconRe: (Score:2)
Hea, I'm just lookin for a way to shaft Microsoft for the PC Tax any way possible.
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See and as Software is like Sex; it's best if it is free... You should know what to do!
Dell - wake up ! (Score:2)
do not just scratch all your gains with one stupid deal with microsoft/novell misfortune. even novell regret it since 2 days after they signed it.
Microsoft Linux Enterprise Server certificate .. (Score:4, Insightful)
So basically certain companies are paying Microsoft to use their own SuSE software. What Novell are doing is legitimizing MS claim to Linix IP rights. A precident of gigantic and enormous consequences. Novell basically gave away their business under vague threats of IP violations. I can see what Microsoft got out of the deal, but I can't for the life of me see what Novell gets out of it.
An analogy, I'm the CIO of Corleone olive oil business and out of the blue the New Jersey Mob phones me up and say I am violating their patented recipe . But they say, lets do a deal, we'll promise not to sue and give you the rights to continue to distribute our patented recipe and in return we'll purchase 'certificates' to distribute Corleone olive oil.
Next thing I know people are ringing me up asking why they should be paying me for New Jersey olive oil. Before ya know it I am out of the olive oil business. The Jersey crew offer to buy out my business at a rock bottom price and to let me stay on as CEO, if I don't go squealing to the the FEDs. Years later people would ask me why I gave away the family business to a shister extortionist - without raising a finger.
Re:Microsoft Linux Enterprise Server certificate . (Score:2)
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NovelSOFT Linux is *NOT* Open Source. Tell us precisely what Novell got out of the deal. MS and Novell exchange paper and MS gets NOVL to agree that NOVL is violating MS intelluctual property in Linux.
'Novel/SUSE becomes the only version of Linux that MS officially supports to work with Windows'
Exactly, easier to crack the one chesnu
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Novel/SUSE becomes the only version of Linux that MS officially supports to work with Windows
However MS has publically stated it will make similar agreements with other Linux venders.
FalconRe:Microsoft Linux Enterprise Server certificate . (Score:2)
Not exactly. What Novell are doing are giving an unproven hint at some vague possibility that MS may have some IP claim over Linux. The only thing that could legitimise MS's claims over IP is for MS to explicitly state which parts of Linux are infringing and provide proof of infringement.
Until they do this their claims are at best FUD and at worst an act of fraud. In the UK at least, there's a criminal charge of obtaining funds by deception
Re:Microsoft Linux Enterprise Server certificate . (Score:2)
The patent protection claims were added last minute and we now know they were the actual target for the deal for Microsoft. What's this called, "the bait and switch" rack
And this is news because? (Score:2)
Meanwhile, be sure not to use breakpoints or linked lists unless you're running on Dell hardware, or running an operating system from Microsoft or Novell. Especially now that you know that ther
Ubuntu/Dell may not be Dead (Score:2)
Aha! (Score:2)
Any chance of Ubuntu supported on servers (Score:2)
I don't care if they come with ubuntu (Score:2)
Wha? (Score:2)
Jeez, I hope nobody was that dense.
Since the Novell/Microsoft deal is utterly (Score:2)
OTOH, as others have suggested, it may simply be that Microsoft made noises at Dell about the Ubuntu deal, so Dell's lawyers came up with a way to blunt that somewhat.
In the end, it's all corporate bullshit and means nothing to anybody else.
"Dude, you bought a Dell" (wi
Wow this article isn't biased at all (Score:3, Informative)
This article gives the reader the distinct impression (read: presents as fact) that Linux is a program created by Novell. In fact it distinctly hints at the fact that there are in fact two operating systems in existence: Microsoft Windows and Novell Linux.
It's a good thing those two are finally working together to make the world a better place. For great justice.
What really happened: (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:What really happened: (Score:5, Funny)
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Make no mistake. Microsoft has purchased themselves a play in the Linux market. And they'll leverage it anywhere they can to m
Re:Free as in Freedom, good sir (Score:4, Insightful)
They are allowing FREEDOM (ie use the software you need if none that support the 4 freedoms are available). Isn't it less free to turn your nose up at something than to inform your users of the licensing issues, let them know they won't get support, and let them use their computers the way THEY see fit?
What definition of FREEDOM do you have that restricts users rights to use something in the name of "freedom"?
That, in my estimation, is freer than a restrictive definition of freedom. Freedom should never take rights away, only add guarantee that you won't take them away from others.
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Cheers.
Where? (Score:2)
Re:Dang. (Score:4, Insightful)
yea, the bigger picture .. (Score:2)
It's to pollute Novell Suse with Windows and get people used to the idea of 'purchasing' SuSE Linux licenses from Microsoft. Not a lot of revenue in the mean time but ultimatly it will open up an avenue to buying out Novell and then suppressing non-Microsoft Linux.
billg: look see Novell is paying us revenue to sell SuSE, must be something in the litigation claims
Hey, Novell: being f***d over by MS the once
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Businesses need to stay away from Novell/Suse Linux. IMO.
LoB
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True. But all the GNU tools (including glibc, GCC) and everything which has had copyright assigned to the FSF will move to GPLv3. The Samba team has also expressed interest in moving to GPLv3, and Samba is mostly developed by a fairly small, close-knit team.
Therefore, onc
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I'm with you on how Mark Shuttleworth must feel. But he didn't get "owned", he's b
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This is not good for Linux and open source software and any deal with Microsofts backing can be. THIS is why it is being discussed IMO and there is gre
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Incidentally, what's wrong with the word "leverage"?
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I'm using Linux because I don't want to pay Microsoft.