Linux Preinstalled Dell Available Soon

An anonymous reader writes "According to a BetaNews article, Dell confirmed on Wednesday plans to offer Linux pre-installed on select desktop and notebook systems, beyond its current Linux-based servers and Precision workstations. No specific time frame was given for the expanded Linux plans, although the company said in a blog posting that it will provide an update in the coming weeks regarding the effort. It will detail 'information on which systems we will offer, our testing and certification efforts, and the Linux distribution(s) that will be available,' Dell said, adding that, 'The countdown begins today.'"

So...

Does this mean that Dell will have to stop selling Windows? Or that they'll go bankrupt? Or will their offices be burned down to the ground? What was the reason for this not happening before again?

Re:So...

"What was the reason for this not happening before again?"

A perceived lack of ROI, I would guess. Whether that perception was accurate will be determined once they've been offering the Linux PC's for a while and can weigh their profits against support costs.

Exactly it -- and I think that the very real result will be lackluster sales, causing them to turn around and say, "See? There's no market for this." I love linux - I run it on three home servers, one home desktop, and on a VM here at work (not allowed to run it on my desktop). However, I won't rush out to buy a preloaded system -- why bother? I build all my own PCs, and I suspect most people who use linux workstations do the same. And the people who we want to get linux to -- those poor, unaware Windows users -- will continue to be unaware of the offering. For them, the operating system doesn't exist; a computer /is/ Windows to them. Unless Dell actively markets it not as Linux, but as an easy-to-use desktop system for the average home user, these folks will remain happily oblivious. Anyone want to bet those odds?

Re:So...

I won't rush out to buy a preloaded system -- why bother?

To have a laptop that works.

Re:So...

No [yahoo.com]. There are PLENTY of Windows based companies with that same graph in the first half of the decade - and Linux companies, Internet companies, etc. This one [yahoo.com] is even more interesting - note that each company in that one has had one split since 2000.

Sorry, but your theory holds no juice.

(Hint: Next time, make a point... THEN substantiate it with graphs & pictures)

Re:So...

Does this mean that Dell will have to stop selling Windows? Or that they'll go bankrupt? Or will their offices be burned down to the ground? What was the reason for this not happening before again?

All good questions.

I'm sure the lack of interest in Vista has something to do with this. When MS is about to release a new OS, they talk to hardware vendors and share some market predictions. They expected to sell XX copies, which in turn translated to Dell means "We'll sell xx new PC's due to Vista". Its not just Dell, it was everyone, but Dell is the example.

Dell of course did not sell nearly as many PC's as they expected, sees part of their market headed for Ubuntu and RHEL and needs to follow the trend.

I don't know, however if they are violating some part of their resale agreement with Microsoft and its a very good question. Is MS just 'staying' this because they know it was Vista that ultimately lead to this happening, or are they going to really bitch about it?

As for their offices burning down, I guess that depends on how many employees are using Dell Laptops.

As for why now? Why not a year ago? I think it was due to 2.4 and earlier 2.6 kernels not going so well on their hardware. I also think the growing server market had a bit to do with it.

Finally Yes Dell could go bankrupt, but I doubt offering Linux as an option will have contributed to that if it happens. After all, its not the condom's fault that you forgot to put it on :)

Re:So...

I'm sure the lack of interest in Vista has something to do with this.

Why would a typical Dell customer who isn't interested in Vista, be interested in Linux ?

Re:So...

Why do people do the things they wouldn't normally do?

Marketing!

That's right folks, we are poised to market linux to any and every one of those poor fools who couldn't even use a toaster.

It's the next big thing!

Or perhaps there has been enough stink about it to get them to at least sale the idea. I'm sure it won't cost that much and it will probably push a few more units.

Hell, even I would have liked this last year when I purchased several new systems. Given how goofed up the process is on some of the top end stuff it would just be kinda nice to have them out the door and pre-installed. Especially when performing a build out on a project and the last thing you want to do is worry about your servers installation needs.

Re:So...

Word of mouth.

Really, Linux isn't that unknown. Especially when all the geeks/nerds/admins are running around with Linux orientated Con shirts and laptops with Ubuntu or Fedora on it. I have converted my share. All have been told I can reinstall windows for them for free if things don't work out. Zero requests to do so. Most have been followed up with too.

And thats just me.

More companies are using it. Schools are starting to switch. Some people do notice this, and spark interest. Just pretend now you are a tech noob, and hear about this Ubuntu thing. What do you get when you google that? One of the better Linux homepages IMHO. Enough to at least spark interest or curiousity. And most people have their resident geek to ask about. Thats how over half of the people I know are on Linux (mostly Linspire and Ubuntu) found out about it. Some blurb somewhere and drilled me.

However, that being said, some real advertising beyond IBM is needed. Especially with the context of the IBM ads. They are aimed at us and the PHB and the army of Sr Admins that control what toys get bought and when. When Ubuntu or Linspire get ads with a Dell or Gateway, then the real momentum will begin.

Not typical.

I know plenty of people who are attracted to Dell because they're finally making solid machines, and because if you watch their homepage for awhile, you can occasionally find really nice sales. I like to build my own computer, but if I can get an equivalent Dell for half the price of the components, and not have to put it together myself and hope it works, I call it a win.

And I'm a Linux user.

But suppose I was an XP user. Right now, Linux can have better support for pre-Vista software via Wine -- Vista is actually broken enough that it depends on your software whether it's easier to go to Wine or to Vista. And, remember all those problems nVidia was having with Vista? I'm not sure if those are resolved yet, or what other problems there might be, but Linux support from nVidia has been rock solid -- and thus, actually better than Vista right now.

So, oddly enough, I would recommend Linux over Vista for gaming, although you're really better off with XP. I fully expect this to change, though -- Vista SP1 will probably fix every problem I've described here.

Dell-Ubuntu

I wonder if Shuttleworth is working his business skill magic to get Ubuntu on these machines.

Great

Now just tell me it costs less than, or at least the same as, the same PC with Windows pre-installed.

Re:Great

Unless the Linux world comes up with a way to give Dell all the kickbacks and payoffs that the Windows world does, I don't see how Dell could possibly offer a Linux machine for less than, or even the same price as, a Windows machine. I hope Dell can prove me wrong, but I ain't holding my breath for it.
 

Re:Great, and maybe possible

Perhaps a PC could be given three prices, so the purchaser has a proper choice:

1. Windows, without promotional crapplets
2. Windows, with promotional crapplets
3. Linux, with drivers

Clearly, options 2 and 3 would be lower cost than option 1. I expect that options 2 and 3 would be similar in cost, even if the Linux option included a DVD with the distribution, drivers, and a collection of FOSS packages. The trade-offs in pricing would be visible in a way that customers might understand, although the crapplet collection would probably be described as "bonus enhanced-value mega-cool selected premium packages" to mask its negative value. People who truly want Windows might opt for the reduced-crap option, even if its price is higher (especially if they experienced the crapplet search & destroy obstacle course after an earlier purchase).

With luck, we will never see the fourth pricing option which lurks malevolently in the background:
4. Linux, with bonus enhanced-value mega-cool selected premium packages

Re: Great

Unless the Linux world comes up with a way to give Dell all the kickbacks and payoffs that the Windows world does, I don't see how Dell could possibly offer a Linux machine for less than, or even the same price as, a Windows machine. I hope Dell can prove me wrong, but I ain't holding my breath for it.

At various places on Dell's website you can find workstations with Linux installed right now, and with a base configuration cheaper with Red Hat Enterprise Linux than with any of the versions of Windows listed.

I'm so excited!

I just hope Dell offers lots of distributions and gives the option of lots of different Linux support services. That's the great thing about Open Source.. there's an actual market for support services.. you're not stuck with the manufacturer. Dell could become the shop for desktop Linux.

Re:I'm so excited!

Oh the joy, I can just see it now ...

Dell: Hello, can we help you?
Me: Hi, I am having some problems installing Linux on my new Dell laptop. I need some information about the video card so I can set up X.
Dell: Ok, umm ... sure ... you said Lyn-ucks?
Me: Yes?
Dell: Ok, umm ... can you spell that please?

is there a politician in the room?

If in fact "no specific time frame was given", then how the fuck can "the countdown begins today"? Counting down to an undetermined date is like counting up to inifinity. And I have a feeling Dell knows this. This way they can talk the talk without having to actually walk the walk and either lose money or anger Microsoft.

Let the cheering being...

I know that most of the crowd around here will be thrilled.. But I do wonder how broad the market actually is for this.. Obviously Linux is growing, and depending on distro becoming more user friendly all the time... The server market is a given, but linux is already doing well there.. 100,000 responses != 100,000 sales.. I'm sure many of the responses were already fans and users.. But that might be counter-acted by people who would buy but didn't comment, or might not even be aware.

The lack of the MS tax will be great, but I have to wonder how many 'regular joes' and 'mom and pops' will try it out. We all know the stories about people setting up their parents with it, but that comes with an implied, and personal support system. And if their Linux Tech Support is anything like their Windows Support the help available may be less than stellar. I sure hope it catches on, even a little competition for MS is a good thing, and introducing people to OSS is fantastic. I also wonder if they'll have the models available at brick and mortar retailers, and if they'll actually push them.

I think the sales figures will be very interesting to watch, especially for non-enterprise customers. The figures I'd be especially interested in would be the people who were happy with their purchase, and the real numbers behind that might be impossible to come by..

Re:Let the cheering being...

The last two research labs I worked at both have sales and support contracts with Dell; when we need a new computer - from a server to a workstation to a laptop - unless we have specific reason otherwise, we buy Dell. And they all come with Windows.

Of course, the previous lab was perhaps 80% Linux, and the current one is 50% (and the in-house IT group installs a dual-boot Linux by default on every Windows machine). And in fact I know there's been growing grumbling about this kind of exclusive deal when they aren't offering what we're using (no, the OS is not the whole issue but it's a fairly big part).

In this kind of environment, sales of the Linux version would easily be more than half of all machines, including laptops. Now of course, this is not a very common environment on one hand, but we go through computing equipment like a TV preacher goes through hairspray on the other, so the field of research is not totally insignificant even for a large corporation.

Re:Let the cheering being...

I work for an organisation with several thousand employees and which has an exclusive deal with Dell (for desktops at least). Few of those employees use Linux, but I have installed it on my desktop and laptop with not too many problems. Before working here I would never have considered buying Dell, but I have actually been pleasantly surprised with the build quality. Next time I am in the market for a laptop at home (have toshiba at the mo which came with winxp home), I may well be persuaded by a Dell machine if they offered a machine that was the same build but guaranteed to work with Linux.

My point is that whilst the market may not be huge, Dell doing this could gain themselves a much larger part of that market by making these offerings, so it may well be successful for them.

Re:Let the cheering being...

'My point is that whilst the market may not be huge, Dell doing this could gain themselves a much larger part of that market by making these offerings, so it may well be successful for them.'

Not to mention that the market is growing. Dell is in a perfect position for early adoption. Dell knows they need to capture this market BEFORE the demand is entirely there. That way as the demand grows they maintain their market dominance.

There are other factors too. Dell is the largest PC vendor. Manufacturers might not cave to kernel volunteers wanting specification but they will cave to Dell. A customer the size of Dell is enough to justify linux support for your device even without any other demand. The is probably true of software in many cases. Increased hardware and software availability will mean increased adoption and a growing market.

Re:Let the cheering being...

One thing I haven't seen is a Windows coming with OpenOffice, Firefox, The Gimp, and Audacity preinstalled. Sure, anyone could go download those for free, but how many 'regular joes' know to do so? Every new install of Windoes I've seen has come preloaded with crapware. Most 'mom and pops' won't want to actually buy a full version of Microsoft Office, so OpenOffice preinstalled fits their needs much better. I honestly think that when people see how much "more" a prebuilt linux system has to offer, there will be some very happy customers. If Dell doesn't lose too many income earning deals with software companies because of this, this will be a huge win for Dell.

Re:Let the cheering being...

I got a computer from tigerdirect.com a couple years ago with windows, OOo, and firefox. I thought I was screwed at the time because I assumed the "complete MS compatible office suite" they advertised was MS Office or MS Works at least, but it is how I, Joe Sixpack himself, discovered Open Source. That same computer now has debian.

Stop wondering

I know that most of the crowd around here will be thrilled.. But I do wonder how broad the market actually is for this..

Can we please cut down on the "but I wonder" posts. Never mind what gets posted, there's always a bunch of folks there to "wonder" about the opposite happening, never mind what's the talk about. Just as some sorta hobby.

Why wonder, when you can wait and see? If Dell offers Linux computers, this is good. It can't possibly be bad, if nobody buys 'em Dell will stop offering them. Nothing more.

You'll miss the old days

If Linux comes preinstalled that means stick to to Microsoft by putting Linux on instead. Where's the fun in that?

For some reason, I really want to see...

...a commercial with a stoner penguin saying, "Dude, you're getting a Dell!".

Betcha they'll wait for Ubuntu Feisty

I've been playing with the late alpha (Herd5) Feisty and now beta and lemme tell you, saying it's got "potential" is an understatement. WiFi support is worlds better, hardware autodetection is improved and the new auto-installer for codecs as they're needed flat-out rocks.

As long as you're not doing RAID and you're cautious about 3D desktop stuff, Feisty Beta is really ready to now for semi-experienced Linux users and has strong potential as "The Chosen One" of distros. It should eat significant market share as people with older Win98 boxes are forced to upgrade to *something* due to lack of ongoing security support. And it'll tempt a lot of XP folk disgusted with malware issues.

This has to be Dell's top choice and it's due for production release late April '07.

Re:Betcha they'll wait for Ubuntu Feisty

Well, I'va also been "playing" with feisty beta, on a dell with internal wifi and on an ibm t series with pcmcia wifi. Thing is, wifi didn't work automatically on either of them. It wasn't rocket science to make them work by hand, I know Debian inside out, still, what will take Dell that unspecified amount of time is probably to test their laptop line to see which is the best dell laptop + given linux distro combination. I hope they will come up with a good one, otherwise it will be anything but a success.
 

Re:Betcha they'll wait for Ubuntu Feisty

Two points here:

* I've played with a LOT of distros looking for one that can be supported among low-tech-level end users. Feisty, even in Beta, is the best I've seen. It has a hell of a lot of potential.

* What are the alternatives? They could go with a commercial distro like Red Hat, Linspire or Suse, but that means more OS costs than a base Vista install. If they do one of the free variants of those (Fedora or OpenSuse) there are stability issues - trust me, I *loved* Fedora Core 6 and if it was just for my personal use, I'd have stuck with it, but the autoinstaller sometimes loads stupid stuff. OpenSuse 10.2 was more stable but the European repositories were often down. I haven't tried Freespire but those magic numbers "1.0" for a version don't inspire confidence. That leaves what, Mepis as a low-end commercial distro? How much support is there for Mepis as opposed to Ubuntu?

Pretty much every Linux geek out there has at least some experience with Ubuntu at this point. That alone is reason to consider Ubuntu. Canonical is going to want this deal to go down, bad. Ubuntu is almost unique as being a free-to-download distro that still has a corporate development base.

My personal favorite distro is actually Zenwalk. Fast as hell Slackware fork with basically all the hard stuff already done. Awesome distro, but...just a few too many minor glitches to load it on "Grandma Millie's" P4 box and expect not to get panic phone calls once a week or so.

It's not us geeks that are the acid test for Linux, it's "Grandma Millie". Like a lot of my fellow political activists who are being hammered by Windows malware. I'm sick of doing bughunts for these folk when they get infested or zombified, flat fed up, and I can't see any better Linux alternative than Ubuntu.

sigh...

I have to wonder how many 'regular joes' and 'mom and pops' will try it out. We all know the stories about people setting up their parents with it, but that comes with an implied, and personal support system. And if their Linux Tech Support is anything like their Windows Support the help available may be less than stellar

good point. I doubt that mom and pop would do very well trying to figure out how to install something and if the family IT expert isnt handy, guess who they are calling? Dell's linux techsupport... only what... 50$/hour or something like that? havent had to deal with theirs but HP yes. the real problem is that you only need linux preinstalled if you do a worse job at it than they do- which limits this to people who really aren't ready for linux yet.

Greedy Gorilla...

They're actually waiting for the next version of the ever-so-popular you-know.... GNU/Linux distribution. Although Greedy Gorilla would be a nice moniker for Vista....

Future Dell Windows Installs

Hopefully the only Windows they will soon be installing at Dell headquarters are chair-proof windows.

Now, if only...

...they'd start making laptops with cases that don't threaten to break every 5 minutes, I'd consider buying another one after my current one. But if they don't, I'm still going to seriously consider buying a Thinkpad.

Can only be a good thing.

I believe regular people will buy these and have no troubles using Linux. Dell will install links for Firefox, Open Office and Thunderbird. They will just need to plug in their broadband connection to either their router or computer and away they go. I'm somewhat concerned about dial-up users as I've found out finding a compatible Linux ISP can be a pain so I could not imagine what they would go through. In the end they will figure it out or ask someone how to do it for them just like they did for Windows.

In related news, advice?

Dell Australia (actually, malaysia or wherever they are outsourcing to) denied me my attempted return of my vista license. I had not accepted the EULA that comes up when you start the notebook for the first time.

I asked them to send me the EULA after they denied me on the phone (there was no comprehension of the issue), this is the response I received:

As per our conversation, we are unable to refund or exchange the Microsoft Windows Vista Operating System as the license is already tied to your computer, service tag #: BLAHBLAH

And any exchange or refund of the license would be in breach of licensing agreement.

Microsoft Vista is a good platform where technology is moving forwards and the markets are now gearing towards Microsoft Windows Vista.


Any advice or let it go? - how amusing is that final sentence!

Re:In related news, advice?

This is completely besides the point, but wouldn't you consider just resizing the Vista partition? In previous stories, others mentioned trouble with warranties when calling the helpdesk without a working Windows installation.

So, Linux will be preinstalled on Dell computers?

So, Linux will be preinstalled on Dell computers?

Imagine a Beowulf cluster of those!

I, for one, welcome our new Dell overlords!

In Soviet Russia, Linux preinstalls you on a Dell computer!

1) Preinstall Linux on Dell computers.
2) ???
3) Profit!!!

"Talk is cheap. Show me Dell." --Linus Torvalds.

Now it's up to the linux users

Now it's up to the linux users to actually buy those Dell systems they've been begging to come pre-installed with Linux for so long, to prove it wasn't just meaningless bitching and that they actually want Dells with Linux.

Wrong direction

Dell confirmed on Wednesday plans to offer Linux pre-installed on select desktop and notebook systems

But why on earth aren't they "planning to offer" the bare hardware with no OS pre-loaded at all?
Seriously, why?

Preinstalled with Novell Suse Linux?

Will the Dell be preinstalled with Novell Suse Linux? With the previous wheeling and dealing between Microsoft and Novell, that would seem to make the most sense (in a twisted way). The only other conventional alternative I can see is Red Hat. I doubt Dell would preinstall a Linux distribution that doesn't have strong corporate backing like Novell or Red Hat.

For everyone who says that this is a ploy by Dell:

For everyone who says that this is a ploy by Dell: What do they have to do exactly? I have heard nothing but doubt on Dell's sincerity since this whole thing started, and as far as I can tell, Dell has done every thing possible to do what was originally asked of it on IdeaStorm. It has also lived up to all of it's promises about going forward with Linux on their computers. So, give them a break. Just wait and see if they keep their promise or not before you start talking about how they are just doing it as some evil Microsoft plan to take over the world (or the rest of it anyway).

And of course it will be

Micro-Suse. Seriously, with all the BS that's gone down over the past few years and the new souls M$ purchased for the low low price of 30 pieces of silver, do you really think it will be anything else?

ready

So I guess Dell is finally ready for the desktop.

I believe it when I see it

That's all I have to say about that

Forrest Gump

I can see it how...

Dell: How can I help you today?
Me: I bought this computer with Linux on it from you guys, and now I am having problems with X.
Dell: RTFM, n00b!

Preloaded Linux or open hardware?

Personally, I do not care much if Dell ships laptops with Linux.

What would make me positively surprised is if any large computer manufacturer would provide hardware with a guaranteed open specifications. If I get it with or without OS is irrelevant.

Closed hardware and no specs makes me a dull boy.

What I want to know is...

will a preinstalled linux prevoid the warranty? [slashdot.org]

Advertise it

But will they advertise it? Maybe even put a noticeable ad on their home page? Not everybody who might be interested reads /. believe it or not. I believe that it will be doomed to fail because nobody will know about it, just like the Linux version of Pro/ENGINEER that will shortly disappear because of "slow adoption"

Not the first time

This isn't the first time Dell offered Linux. The last time they made a half-hearted effort then made a big show of saying no one wanted it. The Linux machines were almost impossible to find on their web site, didn't have any support options and they charged more for not putting Windows on the box. Some test.

So I'm wondering if this is an actual effort to offer Linux boxes or another PR stunt? I don't trust Dell any farther than I can pee into a hurricane. They speak with the stench of Redmond on their lips.

Large companies typically a poor job of this

Large companies have a very difficult time supporting more than one OS. It's about depth of staffing and skill. Of course if one assumes that Linux won't require as much support than I suppose there's an opening there. But if you imagine that Dell will preload any of your 20 favorite distros you are tripping. It will be SuSE and Red Hat. Period. And after some time they will eliminate one of them. Another year or two they'll discover that they're spending 20% as much as Windows to support 5% the customer base of Windows and then they will pull the plug on this.

not just SuSE they are offering?

"and the Linux distribution(s) that will be available"

Or did someone else add the (s) ?

Haven't we seen this headline before?

I'm pretty sure we have....

woot

woot

Why buy OEM at all?

Why buy HP/Dell/Gateway/Etc at all? My horrid experience with HP has scared me off of buying any of these pre-fab systems ever again. Now I have one custom built at my local computer-geeks store. Then I can choose what ever OS I want.

Oh wait... we're trying to get it out to all the non-geeks. Oh yeah. ;)

TAx

Are we going to have a pay a Linux tax? Or more appropriately a non-windows tax because Dell will have to spend extra money on supporting Linux systems and users.

Well, Okay, But

. . . if I have a problem with it is Dell Support going to tell me to reformat the hard drive and load Windows. . .?

I call BS

This whole Dell preinstalled Linux thing strikes me as a sham to get something out of Microsoft, like lower Windows license prices.

The best thing Dell could do for Linux is simply make sure its hardware works. Put some engineers in a "Linux lab." They would make sure that all Dell computers, or just select Dell models, work well with Linux. That would mean that these models would have supported wireless and multimedia buttons that work. They would have video cards with open source drivers. Dell's Linux Web page would be much improved over its current version. It would have detailed instructions on how to make sure that suspend to RAM works with Dell laptops. It would have detailed instructions on how to get a selected Dell remote control to work with MythTV. Dell engineers would make sure the hardware has drivers, writing patches for the kernel if needed (then upstream would gladly help maintain the new code.)

If Dell did all this, there would be no question on "what distro to support." EVERY distro would then support Dell! Debian, Ubuntu, Gentoo, Red Hat, SUSE, etc. would all take the necessary steps to get the Dell models supported in their distro. After all, with the detailed Dell information on the Dell site, integrating support would be dead simple! There would then be strong community sentiment in favor of Dell. Dell would be the best hardware maker for Linux. Everybody wins.

Linux preinstalled is not all that important. The emphasis on preinstalled is the old, Windows/Mac way of thinking. If the kernel supports the hardware, then ANY distro will work with Dells! Installing any distro would take just a few clicks. Sure, some people will want preinstalled. For that, Dell could just have "Certified Linux Partners" that would preinstall whatever distro they want. Then the partner gets the support calls, not Dell. Dell would have lots of partners and sell computers, without getting end user support hassles. Again, everybody wins.

Dell must realize all this. Their IdeaStorm is nothing more than PR BS. If they really wanted to support Linux, they would just improve hardware support. Write some drivers. Post some instructions. Instead they're doing a big public song and dance. I predict they will wave this website at MS during price negotiations. MS will drop the price. Then that's all we'll hear of this preinstalled BS. But that won't preclude TRUE Linux support like I've outlined here, and hopefully that will be forthcoming.

Re:I call BS

Speak for yourself. I'd *love* a pre-installed Linux. The last 6 years I've been running Linux on the desktop at work and at home, and frankly, I can't see the fun anymore in installation and spending hours to get the last hardware supported.

Two Birds, One Stone

If they are going to offer linux, couldn't they use DSL or Knoppix to manage their on-disk recovery functions? A lot of these things already ship with a recovery partition. Why couldn't they ship with a partition for DSL/Knoppix, a partition with compressed recovery images, and a bootloader? Windows users just default to Windows, but if they need recovery, they boot to linux, which could have a diagnostic script (for the help desk) and a recovery script that reloads the Windows stuff. (Better yet, the recovery desk could ssh into the computer under linux to see what's really gone wrong with Windows.) If the disk also ships with separate partitions for the Windows OS, Windows programs, and a big data partition, recovery just got a lot easier, and the data is a lot safer. Dell and its users get a better recovery solution, and fits into the hard drive footprint already dedicated to that function.

It's good for linux because the disk is already partitioned and set for dual boot, which might be the scariest installation steps for a newbie, and there is a linux distro (albeit small) already on the machine. Add a linux upgrade script for the uninitiated -- maybe one that just adds a distro to leave the "recovery linux" in place for future interactions with Dell -- and the computer can go to full blown linux whenever its user wants to.

I'm a noob myself so I don't know if the partitioning scheme is valid (one Windows, one Windows programs, one data, one linux, one linux swap, one recovery images and scripts -- six total), but personally I'd be interested in that configuration, and certainly would be if the incremental cost over Windows only were zero.

Missing the point

It seems we have missed the point... If Dell does offer Linux, seriously markets it, and people start buying a Linux installed machine we will inevitably see better hardware and software support. I would hope Dell works with 1 or 2 distros to make hardware compatibility better. If Dell starts selling machines with Ubuntu, or whatever, and Dell starts buying ABC video chipsets, and XYZ 802.11g cards then maybe this will put pressure on the hardware vendors to better support Linux. We need some UTube ads! I really hope this works out because the hardware issues has been a show stopper for me on several occasions. And of course, once the hardware people come, the next group of people to come over will be the software people, and you know what that means don't ya... Games! I don't ever think a Linux distro will dominate the desktop world as Windows does, but I think there is enough market share out there to steal from M$ and get a solid foothold so that both hardware and software vendors take notice.

Erm I have something to confess

I *might* of left a perl script running somewhere promoting Linux on some companies suggestions box.

More from BBC

There is another article on the BBC website, confirming this [bbc.co.uk] and giving some more substance to read.

Legal issues to be resolved

How's Dell going to get around the legal issues of selling these machines here in the USA? As you all know, there's this little problem of having a legal DVD player (for movies) on Linux. I for one want to know that. Sure, they could just go with something like Linux Mint, which has all the stuff in it, but some of that is against US law.
 
Maybe they'll sell these in two versions: the USA's crapified version, and the rest of the world's functional version.
 
Regardless, there are some issues to resolve, and they need to do it.

Proprietary bits and dual booting

No successful Linux machine will sell outside of businesses if it doesn't come with support for media playback out of the box. That means licensing all the proprietary formats and codecs in advance. I can't imagine a model where you would buy a laptop with, say, plain-vanilla Fedora or Ubuntu on it, and the manufacturer points you to some server outside the US ("wink, wink") to download what you need to watch a DVD. The DMCA and similar US laws would make this a dicey proposition legally, and not one any successful company's attorneys could possibly endorse.

On the hardware side, things are much brighter since Intel opened its video and wifi hardware. My latest Inspiron has Intel graphics, and I specifically requested an Intel 3945 wireless card for another $20 or so. It shouldn't be hard for Dell to develop a customized version of some distro that supports these devices flawlessly out-of-the-box. If they choose to go with nVidia or ATI upgrades as well, they'll just ship the proprietary drivers pre-installed. It really doesn't bother me to see the large nVidia logo appear on my screen briefly at boot.

If you don't want to have a computer with proprietary parts, you won't want to buy a pre-installed Linux Dell. Most people, even most Linux users, probably won't care and just want something that works. I don't necessarily expect to see them priced much below an equivalent Windows machine, either, for reasons already discussed here (support costs, lack of subsidized pre-installs, etc.). My time is worth a lot more to me than a few dollars one way or the other. Installing Fedora on that Inspiron for my daughter took at least an hour or two. I'd gladly pay Dell $50 or so to have them do it and guarantee it will work properly when I first turn it on.

Finally, everyone here seems to think we'll be seeing Linux-only machines. I wouldn't be surprised to see dual-boot machines made available at the start, with Vista as the default OS. This would help satisfy Microsoft and let Dell continue to place those revenue-generating items on your Vista desktop and in your task bar.

End of Microsoft 'monopoly'

So does that mean that Microsoft will no longer have a monopoly on "desktop OSes for intel-compatible CPUs"? (Given that Dell will ship Linux systems and OSX also is a desktop OS that uses intel CPUs.) The next time Microsoft's monopoly status is reviewed by the US courts (happens every year), will their monopoly status get revoked, so that their compliance oversight regulations are lifted?

old news, broken promises...

Dell was flirting with linux-supported releases almost 10 years ago. I know, 'cause in 1999 or 2000 I had my company buy one for me. I went through the website to pick it and everything. RedHat was the main distro then. Even came with Applixware for Office 'cause OpenOffice hadn't become the standard yet.

So really, this isn't news, 'cause they had it and they dropped it and now they're acting like they've never had it before and it's completely full of crap.

My wishlist

Re-typed one last time, posting it on IdeaStorm [ideastorm.com]:

This is, essentially, my wishlist for Linux on a Dell, but it goes a bit beyond that.

The configuration on the website should be powerful, but easy to use. I would suggest going from a one-dimensional to a two-dimensional interface, or maybe even a tree. Right now, ordering a Dell laptop means going step by step, each step being a page full of configuration.

I would suggest, instead, that you provide a single page of configuration options. Basic things, like "CPU", with a dropdown menu -- however, some things could be "All", "Typical", "Custom", "None". Everything should have the dollar amount it is costing right next to the item. A perfect candidate: Pre-loaded software. Total amount it's costing you right next to it. "All" makes your machine positively loaded -- Vista Ultimate, Ubuntu, BSD, Photoshop, MS Office, OpenOffice, etc etc... "None" means they won't do anything other than format the disk, and maybe install FreeDOS if they have to. "Typical" would probably be Vista Home Basic + MS Office, or vanilla Ubuntu if it was marketed as a Linux machine -- in other words, just the defaults, I-don't-want-to-look-at-it setting. "Custom" would expand that part of the page, or popup a new window, and allow you to configure the living hell out of it.

The rest of my post is based on the assumption that, given the above web interface, you won't reject a configuration option because it would confuse Grandma. Grandma can just click "Typical" for everything and be done. People who dig deeper should not be denied any functionality which can be easily achieved.

First thing: Partitioning. It should be possible to set up partitions, and configure which OS is the default to boot when installing multiple OSes. It should also be possible to specify partition type and filesystem to format, with a reasonable selection. I'm not asking for Reiser4 support or jffs2 support, or even cryptoloop support, just all the standard stuff -- XFS, JFS, ReiserFS, ext3, linux-swap, vfat, and so on. Keep in mind that even NTFS partitions can be created with fairly standard Linux tools, so for this stage, you do not have to code any of this yourself -- just the interface for me to choose my filesystem.

Operating Systems: I should be able to choose from a selection of images that Dell provides, to start with. Simplest way to implement this is with disk images. For example, a Windows image could be prepared on the smallest partition it can possibly be installed to. Then, it can be copied with ntfsclone and resized with ntfsresize to fit whatever amount of space I've allocated to Windows on that machine.

A similar procedure could be used for any OSes not natively supported by your install scripts. In fact, any OS or distro you don't want to support on your own could still make a few partition images available for you to download, and have it set up so that on first boot, the relevant partitions are expanded to the size they need to be. This could even be such that a user can visit the website of a third-party distro and configure a custom OS image, then paste the URL into the partition editor on the Dell website. This is not as wasteful as it sounds -- you do not have to actually download it until the user has made the purchase (at which point you have enough information to prosecute them if they've made you do something illegal), and you can charge them a small fee for the bandwidth used, and cache any single image that seems popular.

For distros you don't support, you could take a similar approach, but with a tarball instead. Unpack the tarball, chroot and run some predefined install script -- or make it possible to download the install script separately. This is more efficient and easier to customize than a partition image -- also more likely to work, as not all filesystems can be easily resized -- but not really portable beyond Linux.

For the "official" distro, here i

bahhh!

My pessimistic side says they are probably putting linux on their backlog of machines not ready for the power hungry vista. My optimistic side says you still have to give them credit for actually supporting linux for real this time.

.....but still gouging on delivery charges

A move in the right direction but until they get rid of their ridiculous GBP60 "delivery charge" in the UK they still won't be getting any of my business.

Dell had failed to release earning reports..

I am pretty sure just heard on PBS radio, I believe it was the "Marketplace" program Friday that Dell had failed to release earning reports for the last 2 or 3 quarters. I also remember hearing in the last month or so the Michael Dell is returning to fill the CEO role in the company. All this reads to me like a company in trouble.

If they intend to ship a box ready for Joe sixpack or grandmaw the DMCA and libdecss issues, licensing of the necessary proprietary formats,codecs and such will be really big issues. Then there are the GPL issues with the distribution of proprietary binary drivers, codecs, but I am unsure of how big an issue this would be as I guess it could be handled via separate media or by online updates.

As for how this fits with Microsoft, I would suspect that Novell might very well be an easy thus early certified vendor with a MS sanctioned version of SLED. I run openSuse here because I like it and have always found Suse to be the cream of the Linux crop, but I hope that this is not going to be exclusive to only those Linux companies that have signed a nasty compact wit MS. But who knows, maybe Dell is really in bad fiducial shape and are desperate enough to consider using this in setting up a legal attack on the "sell Windows exclusively or lose your discount" tax Microsoft has managed to levy on all of us.

I really don't have a problem with people making a very good living writing software. But you know nearly every time I have been tempted into buying closed source packaged software I have come away feeling screwed over. Not because of what I paid, but for the piss poor product and support I got for the money, or like OS/2 where IBM chose to let it die a slow painful death. Since moving away from Windows and OS/2 an onto Linux my main satisfaction comes from things working well, the quality of support I get, and the comfort of not depending on a single company's vision or ethics, not the price - the inexpensive nature of FOSS to me is just another bonus.

I wish Micheal Dell the best in getting his company back on its feet. I believe that a major PC builder like Dell could very well be the ice in the crack that breaks the Microsoft monopoly in this market. I also believe that if the legal issues about things like the DMCA can be resolved that the average person will find a lot to like about Linux and FOSS in general. I suspect that the first and second movers that bring Linux to the masses could profit from it very well. And last but not least, if business leaders and politicians get the heads out of their collective arses and get the patent/legal issues dealt with, the rate of innovation possible in a more free and open marketplace would be astounding. Innovation into what is possible with a product is the best fuel for expansion of the products market. Current details and implementation of IP laws and excessive protection of monopolies, especially in software, media and telecom industires, have what is possible on a very short leash.

Wabi-Sabi
Matthew

Has the boss called?

Several times over the past years I've seen announcements of DELL supporting Linux. Then it was mysteriously retracted after a day or a few. Hmmm. Anyways, Emperor Linux and others already sell DELL computers with Linux. IF, any good comp engr knows the hardware itself comes from Tiawan, China, etc and the chips are not designed by DELL (do they design any chips? at least HP does some). So, the system you buy from TigerDirect or NewEgg is basically the same. And everyone sells a warranty these days.
Best,
TimJowers, http://www.serviza.com/ [serviza.com], We recommend Linux.

Re:Hmmmm.

*twitch*

After just crapping on everyone wanting Linux they are now offering exactly what? I could have sworn not more than about a day ago someone getting the short stick on their warranty because they installed Ubuntu.

That was Compaq, iirc