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Dell Refunds Vista/Works With Two Emails
Posted by
kdawson
on Sun Mar 25, 2007 03:59 PM
from the try-this-at-home dept.
from the try-this-at-home dept.
look@thealternative.ch writes "Although many people have asked for pre-installed Linux, and Dell seems to have listened, some still think that buying a naked PC won't be easy. But what about stripping it naked after you buy it? I managed to get Windows Vista (and a bit more) refunded from Dell Germany last week. The process was surprisingly simple: 1) After delivery, ask Dell Support for refund by email. 2) ??? 3) Refund!!! Read the full email conversation in the original German or my English translation. For the impatient reader: The refund is €77.54 for Windows Vista Home Basic plus Works 8.0 (that is 15% of the total amount I paid). The whole process took 2 emails, 2 more to say thank you, and less than 48 hours. The money is already in my account. Kudos to Dell Customer Care (esp. 'Veronika') for being efficient and customer-oriented!"
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Pre-Installed Linux Tops Dell Customer Requests 509 comments
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[+]
Dell Opens a Poll On Linux Options 404 comments
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[+]
Why You Can't Buy a Naked PC 367 comments
ZDOne writes "A piece up on ZDNet looks at the issue of naked PCs. ZDNet UK phoned around all the major PC vendors and not one of them would sell a machine without Windows on it. IT professionals are being forced to adopt Microsoft's operating systems — even if they tell their PC supplier they want a system free of Microsoft software. On the other hand, even if it's almost impossible to buy a PC without an operating system installed, companies like Dell and HP are now committed to supporting Linux as well. 'Murray believes there is a market for Linux in the UK but is also aware of the issues facing any large supplier who wants to make Linux boxes available. "It means diverting production lines and that is a lot of money and so we have to prove the business case," he said. However, he made it clear that he is enthusiastic about the idea and wants to make it work. "We just have to show it is worthwhile," he said.'"
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Dell Refunds Vista/Works With Two Emails
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Ah, the hot/nice telephone operator (Score:5, Funny)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Wednesday March 10 2004, @11:39PM)
But then she goes and does it with the next guy too. Dirty girl.
You must be mistaken... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:You must be mistaken... (Score:4, Funny)
(http://www.euphoricllama.com/)
Re:You must be mistaken... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:You must be mistaken... (Score:4, Informative)
Great Britain is the island which contains three countries - England, Scotland and Wales. The full title of the UK is "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". Go back 100 years or so and you could chop out the word "Northern".
Incidentally, the "Great" in "Great Britain" has nothing to do with greatness - it merely serves to distinguish between Grande Bretagne and Petite Bretagne, which is on the other side of the English Channel.
Re:You must be mistaken... (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://quadrocket.co.uk/)
You mean slashdot.org.uk? Or slashdot.de? Funnily enough, it's not slashdot.us either...
Re:Ah, the hot/nice telephone operator (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.joe-bunting.com/club)
Re:Ah, the hot/nice telephone operator (Score:5, Interesting)
Great ! (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.parateam.com/)
Re:Great ! (Score:5, Funny)
Chris Mattern
Re:Great ! (Score:4, Interesting)
(http://www.kibbee.ca/)
Re:Great ! (Score:5, Funny)
(http://hecgeek.blogspot.com/)
Spammer's Delight! (Score:5, Funny)
(http://xmoo.com/)
As you do not want the Windows Vista operating system, we will refund you the purchase price you paid for it (ca. 42.29 Euro gross). I would like to ask you to send me your bank details that I can mark the payment in our system. I need:
your name:
bank name:
city (of bank):
bank code:
account no:
The money should be paid back within one week.
Yours Sinfully,
Ajabaili Sakilikulu
I hated dell... (Score:4, Interesting)
This makes me want to give them another chance.
Re:I hated dell... (Score:4, Interesting)
Outsourcing isn't monolithic - there's no such thing as "outsourcing in theory" that you can have (or not have) a problem with. Outsourcing a development lab is a completely different thing from outsourcing a call center. The latter is always, unmistakably, wrong. And here's why:
If you force your engineers to staff the phone support, they have an incentive to minimize the number of support calls. They will thus pay close attention to the things people call about and will do their best to eliminate those problems in the next generation product.
The moment you create a dedicated "call center", you're already going downhill: Now you have people who did not make the product trying to explain to people for whom it doesn't work, how to make it work. But the call-center staffers, at least, are employees and thus they're still motivated to pass on enough information to engineering to minimize future workload on them.
But when you now ship you call-center to india, you have now created a corporate entity that has no interest in minimizing call volumne. To the contrary - they get paid by the number of calls or the number of minutes spent on calls and thus it is in their best interest to have as many calls as possible. The survival of the call-center rests on there being as many service calls as possible. Thus no information is ever passed on to engineering about the main faults people keep finding (how convenient that engineering is on a different continent now) and if the customer hangs up irately then that just means they'll be calling right back tomorrow after noodling around trying to fix their stuff for another 24hours themselves.
I'm against outsourcing of call-centers even "in theory". And "in practice". And "in anything else I can think of". It's just a bad idea all around - the brand suffers, the customers suffer, the engineering suffers. All that happens is that a bunch of hobos in India get rich.
Re:I hated dell... (Score:4, Interesting)
The first dimensions sucked, but they've gotten better, and they even seem to have worked through the problems they were having with their business models(the Optiplex 270's and 280's were pretty shocking, the 260's were ok though and the 520's are reasonable). I'd personally never buy one, but that's because building the PC is half the fun of buying one for me.
As for their support experience, yes you'll end up talking to someone from Southeast Asia(Dell left India some time ago) who barely speaks English, and yes they will be working really hard not to send the technician out to see you(assuming you have on-site support in the first place), but if you are sufficiently obnoxious and forceful(I hate doing it, but when I was working in support I just got tired of playing the game), they'll do what you want them to do and fix your problem. HP's support on any of their consumer grade products is much worse, at least it is over here.
When people ask me what computer to buy, I generally recommend Dell simply because their products are as good as most, they're prices are reasonable, and they'll be around in 5 years. I don't build PC's for people because I don't support home PC's, so Dell is as good a solution as any.
Automation (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.genesi-usa.com/)
Enter your order ID. Enter your Vista key.. and then a refund is processed. The Vista key could be submitted to Microsoft such that it no longer authenticates copies of Vista on Dell PC's (XP/Vista activation and WGA knows the difference somehow, somewhere) and Dell can have the money sent to the user without tying up their customer support line.
Microsoft might be concerned that they don't get their money for this, but then again it would be against the law for them to do anything like force Dell not to do it, or insist that users do not get a refund anyway (the EU would have a field day and think up some higher billion dollar amounts for fines).
I bet it costs more to process it through 'Veronika' than clicking a website button would.
The uptake on this? I dunno. Maybe a lot of people would use it.. but a far higher number would not give a crap and carry on running Vista. I think shipping a naked/bare PC is extremely user-unfriendly and it also gives Dell a burn-in-test nightmare (how do you burn in a laptop which is supposed to have never had an OS installed on it? Do you then perform a military-grade disk wipe after you put the burn-in software on there? I dunno..). Putting the most popular, most needed for most people OS on the system (Vista I guess) is an okay thing to do. But I do think if you don't actually want Vista, you should be able to go through and click the Refund button..
Sounds good (Score:3, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Friday September 15 2006, @12:47AM)
Finally Uh? (Score:5, Interesting)
The Windows and or OSes tied to hardware are for pure support cost reasons at this point with companies like Dell/HP/etc.
Even prior to the dissolving of MS only contracts, any hardware company had the choice to not buy into an exclusive package from MS and pay the $5/10 bucks more per copy. And even though MS took the flack for this, it was not an uncommon model in the software/OEM industry and it was also something that the greed of OEMs were eager to take advantage of to the loss of their customers.
I was part of a fairly large OEM company during this timeframe, and we chose not to save the $5 a copy on OEM Windows, and still maintained a great relationship with MS even still we sold naked and *nix preloaded on many systems.
Sure we could have signed a bundling deal, just like we were offered by Corel and even IBM in the early years for OS/2, however saving a couple of $$ per Windows system was less important than providing our customers what they wanted.
So Kudos to Dell for finally stepping up and taking responsibility for the product they are selling...
The best part (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The best part (Score:5, Funny)
Dell: Hi, this is Dell technical support. How may I help you?"
Customer: Uh, I want a refund for Vista since I'm not using it.
Dell: Okay, I just need you to answer one randomly selected question. What does "ls -l" do?
Customer: It displays a long directory listing.
Dell: Your refund check is on the way.
Style. (Score:4, Funny)
(http://www.game-point.net/ | Last Journal: Monday November 14 2005, @09:19AM)
Doing things that way always gets me waaay more in the mood. Gotta do it slowly though.
Differences in your geography? (Score:3, Interesting)
What can Microsoft do? (Score:3, Funny)
(http://xmoo.com/)
All of this is very nice, but I did spot one thing (Score:4, Interesting)
(http://www.whitepost.org.uk/)
Vista did not manage to recover from the aborted install process the previous day and got lost in an infinite loop of reboots. (I wonder what people do with a power outage during install as there was no such thing as a Vista-CD delivered...)
And I've noticed that some OEMs aren't setting up a "recovery" partition (basically, a second partition which can be booted directly from the BIOS which reinstalls the OS) any more. Not good at all. Heck, I took delivery of a PC only last week where there was no hardware fault from the factory, but there was something wrong with the OEM Windows install and it was stuck in a reboot loop. Didn't bother me as we've got a Windows site license so I could rebuild from our own media anyway, but that's not really the point.
Just to break that 77.54 down for you... (Score:4, Funny)
Sounds about right.
But how will DELL stop fraud? (Score:4, Interesting)
(Last Journal: Saturday April 03 2004, @09:04AM)
I'm impressed to hear you got the crud Works refun (Score:2, Interesting)
Old news (Score:2)
Dell has always handled that in a pro customer way. If they just would make windows an option in their webinterface, I don't mind if it's selected, but it should be de-selectable.
But how many /, 'ser,,, (Score:1)
I don't know about the US ... (Score:5, Informative)
dell open source desktops (Score:1, Informative)
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/
Why buy from the big guys at all? (Score:1)
When I bought my last desktop, I did exactly that. I knew roughly how fast I wanted it to be and what features I wanted, but didn't have the expertise to build it myself (or even choose all the right components). I also had a limited budget of about $500. I didn't need a video card or audio card, luckily (that would have blown my budget for sure), and I already owned a copy of Windows (I was not ready for Linux, I'm afraid).
I went to the shop and explained my needs. They picked out the appropriate parts for me and the next day I had a shiny new computer. I installed Windows myself, although they offered to do it for me. It was dead simple, and there was no worry or extra cost for shipping. All the parts were warrantied. They also warrantied their work for some period of time. The labour price was quite reasonable.
I suppose if you're located far from any decent shops, or need a large number of machines, or have some other particular need, the big guys are a good choice. But there are other options.
(Caveat: make sure you get a good power supply. Mine conked out after <4 years. Of course, that applies with any computer retailer. Cheaping out on that is a common way to lower prices.)
Barring upgrades and a new PS, it's still running 6 years later, and when I replace it I'll probably go back. (Granted, lots of upgrades. Most of which would be totally unnecessary if it weren't for those infernal games.)
The retailer in question was Gamepower Systems [gpsystems.ca].
HP in the US not so willing. (Score:1)
(Last Journal: Friday December 27 2002, @01:49AM)
A Customer in Brazil also got his refund from Dell (Score:2)
(http://www.geocities.com/gwidion23)
in a F.S. list, a message witht eh subject "Getting back the money from pre-installed
Windows in a Dell computer". I thought at first it would be a link to this same
news.
However, it tuerned out to be a brazillian customer who achieved just the same
over the past week. You can check the google translation [google.com], or the original blog entry [andrenoel.com.br] if you can read Portuguese.
It was not as easy as in TFA, though, the customer had to make a phone call, and mention by name brazillian customer law, which forbids bound product selling.
Obvious reason for this. (Score:2)
(Last Journal: Sunday January 22 2006, @06:55AM)
The inclusion of all this software (which then tries to hit you for upgrades or subscriptions) pretty much covers the cost of OEM windows, to my understanding.
Now, if Microsoft actually refunds you the money for the licence, then Dell is actually ahead here! And it may be legal for them to do this if their deal with Norton et al is based on the number of installs sold, and there is no clause for when the user removes software. Very different from the situation if the machine is sold clean.
You get the M$ money back while Dell get the money for including extra software on your windows install.
Just speculation, someone tell me if this is wrong...
Michael
No such luck with Sony (yet) (Score:2)
I needed a laptop there and then so I bought it, imaged the Vista off the machine and Ubuntu on it.
I'll resume that battle some other time, they take advantage of the fact that it takes time and effort to fight idiocy..
no proof required? (Score:2, Interesting)
(http://marp.retrogames.com/)
Is this offer of free money available to everyone? Or did they check more than you show in the emails?
Anyone else reminded of `Dances With Wolves'? (Score:2, Funny)
I read "Dell Refunds Vista" and "Works With Two Emails" separately and then parsed the second phrase as a Native American name, akin to "Dances With Wolves" and "Stands With a Fist".
How would a Native American get the name "Works With Two Emails"?
I tried this myself and.. (Score:1)
I'm changed (Score:1)
(http://ghostbar.ath.cx/ | Last Journal: Sunday June 10, @09:21PM)
Not too easy in US (Score:1)
they did point out what they call their "open source" models, which are models without an OS installed, and they are available to customize online, but the customization of these models is somehwat limited, at least compared to other models...
i was on the phone for about 1 hour with multiple departments and at least one "manager," whatever that means.
so, i know people have been able to get refunds, but it is NOT easy at all. maybe if you have already purchased the system you have a little more bargaining power, i dont know...
Re:Germany BY LAW (Score:4, Informative)
(http://fsfe.org/join | Last Journal: Saturday March 31 2007, @05:28PM)
Don't expect it to be so easy anywhere else, Dell gets a lot of subsidy from Microsoft for the 'Linux' games it plays.
Everybody on the world has this right; just read the damn MS-EULA the next time you reinstall; it's in there.
Re:Congradulations (Score:4, Funny)
Is there such a thing?
Re:Congradulations (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Congradulations (Score:1)
(http://www.equus.demon.co.uk/index.html)
as delivered by them it didn;t connect to my wireless router
Ubuntu worked straight away, no hassle
Got Vista to work after I downloader the wireless driver
Re:Congradulations (Score:1)
I'm not him, but I don't know of any computer vendors that would sell laptops or desktops with Linux preinstalled where I'm located.
It's quite possible that it wasn't a feasible option for the original poster either.
Re:Congradulations (Score:2)
Re:Germany BY LAW (Score:3, Informative)
That's not quite what the law says. Dell are allowed by law to only sell PCs with Windows if they so choose. What the law says is that the "OEM" version of the software may be sold without any accompanying hardware, and that Microsoft is explicitly forbidden from making versions of Windows which are tied to (only run on) specific machines. You can see this article [tecchannel.de] (in German) for an overview; the judgement itself, from 6th July 2000, is typed up here [jurpc.de] (also German). This law is also the reason that people in Germany can legally sell their used OEM Windows software on ebay, even if the EULA says that the software may not be sold separately from the machine it came with.
It has also been hinted at that extra conditions of use (eg: in the EULA) on boxed software that were not visible on the outside of the box prior to purchase may be counted as null and void, but this has not yet been confirmed by a court of law - in Germany, or AFAIK anywhere else in the EU.
The situation in the States is, of course, an entirely different kettle of fish. As far as being a consumer goes, it's the land of the not-so-free.
-- Steve