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Ian Murdock Joins Sun

Posted by kdawson on Mon Mar 19, 2007 07:50 PM
from the long-time-admirer dept.
Sun Microsystems Linux
RLiegh sends us the second piece of news today featuring Debian founder Ian Murdock. In an entry on his blog, Murdock announced that he is joining Sun Microsystems as their chief operating platforms officer. As he put it in his opensolaris post, this "...basically means I'll be in charge of Sun's operating system strategy, spanning Solaris and Linux." In all likelihood one of his first priorities will be "closing the usability gap" between Solaris and Linux.

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[+] Ian Murdock: Debian "Missing a Big Opportunity" 330 comments
Natester writes "While Debian struggles to get its next release (Etch) out the door, the project's founder, Ian Murdock, has spoken out about politics, the lack of firm leadership, and Ubuntu's meteoric rise in prominence. Murdock believes that Debian is "process run amok" — nobody feels empowered to make decisions, leading to the sluggish rate of progress."
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  • What usability gap? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Creepy Crawler (680178) on Monday March 19 2007, @07:55PM (#18408883)
    Im not sure where Murdoch is coming from here.

    GNU tools are on one of the CS's that Sun ships, and I install gnu tools anyways. It's there and easy to use. Sun supports its SunOS well.

    Unless Murdoch is reffering to the wonderful "usability" of old and haphazardly done Debian packages, well erm.. let Sun take care of themselves. I like relatively new user-based programs (like, not from the early 90's).

    Typed on a Debian Testing machine. Debating to go with Ubuntu..

    • Re:What usability gap? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by good soldier svejk (571730) on Monday March 19 2007, @08:08PM (#18408987)
      I presume he is talking about package management. Do the current SunOS/Solaris versions ship with modern package management? Because the stuff that came with 2.8 and was crap.
      [ Parent ]

    • Re:What usability gap? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by McFadden (809368) on Monday March 19 2007, @08:08PM (#18408991)
      Maybe I'm just a cynic, but when I read "In all likelihood one of his first priorities will be "closing the usability gap" between Solaris and Linux." - I genuinely wasn't sure which one was supposed to be ahead of the other,
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:What usability gap? by cmdr_tofu (Score:2) Monday March 19 2007, @10:54PM

    • Re:Replacement Gap (Score:5, Informative)

      by Ilgaz (86384) on Monday March 19 2007, @08:35PM (#18409167)
      (http://www.noooxml.org/petition)
      You people are really confused. Solaris actual userbase are happy with their stable/established workstations and servers. An OS not installed at your geek neighbour doesn't mean it is "dead" or "eclipsed".

      You speak like Solaris Desktop was considered an alternative home desktop OS and Linux took all userbase.

      Solaris is alive and well doing number crunching/CAD/Medical/Military work around the World. It is just not too easy to see it running in neighbourhood.

      [ Parent ]

    • Re:Replacement Gap (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Kymermosst (33885) on Monday March 19 2007, @08:38PM (#18409181)
      (Last Journal: Thursday November 01, @09:12PM)
      Yeah, except I'd pick Solaris to run a mission-critical app over Linux any day.

      I started off as a Linux admin. Today I am a Solaris admin and I like it that way. Yeah, some of the user-land utilities could be improved, but overall Solaris is a solid operating system that handles some of our hefty applications admirably. Sun also has the best support money can buy. Our x86 vendor is a pain in the ass and there is nothing quite like your Linux vendor and your hardware vendor blaming each other while you wait to get your problem sorted out.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Replacement Gap by cheshire_cqx (Score:2) Monday March 19 2007, @08:40PM

      • Re:Replacement Gap (Score:5, Interesting)

        by geniusj (140174) on Monday March 19 2007, @11:09PM (#18410389)
        (http://www.ods.org/)
        As an experienced admin with both OSes, I'll sum up what I think the biggest abstract difference is between the two.

        Solaris assumes you know what you're doing. Linux, to a much lesser degree.

        Linux has been open source since its inception, but as an admin on a Solaris box, the system definitely feels more 'open' to you. More is possible, more data is gatherable, more settings are tunable. A Solaris admin generally has more power over the system without digging into source code than the Linux counterpart. That's the major difference I've always seen. If you want both flexibility and stability, it's hard to beat.

        I will say though that Solaris' defaults are generally less reasonable than the enterprise linux distributions' are. There is more tuning and such to do before you'll have your Solaris system running the way you want it to. At least there's Jumpstart.
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:Replacement Gap by backwardMechanic (Score:2) Tuesday March 20 2007, @08:12AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Upcoming GPL3 by lokedhs (Score:2) Monday March 19 2007, @10:49PM
    • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.

  • Does it follow? (Score:2)

    by 3seas (184403) on Monday March 19 2007, @08:03PM (#18408963)
    (http://threeseas.net/ | Last Journal: Friday January 18 2002, @01:44PM)
    Didn't he recently talk down about debian?

    Not that he wasn't right, but being the founder... doesn't that say something about what we might expect of him at SUN?

  • Well that sucks (Score:5, Funny)

    by 0racle (667029) on Monday March 19 2007, @08:24PM (#18409097)
    I was hoping for a Solaris 11 release in my lifetime.

  • Shoot for the stars (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Graham J - XVI (1076671) on Monday March 19 2007, @08:38PM (#18409183)
    (http://xvi.com/)
    How about closing the usability gap between Solaris and OSX instead? ;)

  • Debian on Solaris? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Dara Hazeghi (1076823) on Monday March 19 2007, @08:38PM (#18409191)
    (http://left404.com/)
    As the Debian GNU/kFreeBSD [debian.org] project has shown, it is possible to port the Debian userland (including the excellent apt-get package management system) to other kernels besides Linux. I would like to see Debian/Solaris project come out of Ian's endeavors. If not that, then at least an upgrade of the current Solaris userland to make it more Linux-like.
    • Re:Debian on Solaris? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday March 19 2007, @08:47PM
    • Already is one. by Penguin Programmer (Score:3) Monday March 19 2007, @09:05PM

    • Re:Debian on Solaris? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by kindbud (90044) on Monday March 19 2007, @09:27PM (#18409579)
      (http://www.thekindbud.com/)
      If not that, then at least an upgrade of the current Solaris userland to make it more Linux-like.

      You mean it would have all the inconsistencies and inscrutability of the System V and BSD userland inherited from SunOS, PLUS all the additional inconsistencies Linux has contributed? I can hardly wait.

      Do I use a dash or a double-dash? Will the man page refer me to the info docs? Or will it refer me to the command line help? Or was that --help?

      One of the things I dislike about Linux userland is that it is such a bastard of every other userland out there. Cacophony cannot be emulated, it can only be shouted down.
      [ Parent ]
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.

  • why is this news? (Score:1)

    by nanosquid (1074949) on Monday March 19 2007, @08:40PM (#18409209)
    If Sun hopes that Ian will somehow make Solaris more attractive to the open source community, I don't think that's going to happen. Solaris is what it is, all the technical and legal arguments have been made, and people have made up their minds. Unlike golf-playing IT managers, people who pick open source software are generally not going to be swayed by figureheads.

    What Ian can do, however, is effect changes inside Sun. For example, if he can convince Sun to drop dual licensing for Solaris, it could more easily become a mainstream open-source platform.

  • see (Score:1)

    by mastershake_phd (1050150) on Monday March 19 2007, @08:59PM (#18409347)
    (http://freedomsforums.com/)
    I knew chaos theory had a future in computers.

  • Debian isn't the best model for usability (Score:2, Funny)

    by nicolaiplum (169077) on Monday March 19 2007, @09:28PM (#18409583)
    Debian isn't the best model for usability for non-technical users; glacial release schedules and lack of desktop environment coherence to offset your stability is, well, what you get with Solaris already.
    Sun should poach Mark Shuttleworth if they want someone who can make a solid OS into one that you can give to random people to use without it blowing their minds.
  • At least appears greener than Debian.

    I wonder if he'll be a capable exec though. The politics is rough and we don't know what kind of authority/reach he has. For example, budgets? hire/fires? or is it more.... Figurehead type meet-and-greeter. Every organization that can afford them has a stable of ponies just for this purpose.

    Good luck to him. I really hope it works out considering the disparaging remarks posted earlier today.

  • Mr President! (Score:1)

    by tabby (592506) on Tuesday March 20 2007, @06:30AM (#18412283)
    (http://misondau.spaces.live.com/)
    We cannot allow a usability gap!

    Apologies to the late Mr Kubrick.

  • MACGYVER!!! (Score:1)

    by Notquitecajun (1073646) on Tuesday March 20 2007, @07:23AM (#18412567)
    Sorry. I see the word "Murdock" and I have to yell the name. Or act crazy and fly a helicopter.

  • Re:Shooting too low, again. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 19 2007, @08:13PM (#18409017)
    He probably forgot that Apple still makes computers and operating systems.

    Like 97 percent of the rest of the computing world.

    [ Parent ]
    • Re:Shooting too low, again. by kad77 (Score:2) Monday March 19 2007, @08:24PM
      • A low shot. by kad77 (Score:1) Monday March 19 2007, @09:28PM
      • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.

    • Re:Shooting too low, again. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by caseih (160668) on Monday March 19 2007, @10:32PM (#18410127)
      I think Sun should buy Apple and rename themselves as Apple. Then Mac OS X gets a much better kernel, and Sun gets all of Apple's nice unix userspace (Solaris 10's userspace is awful). Mac OS X server becomes Solaris 11 and all of apple's good ideas like OpenDirectory, their management GUIs for open source apps, etc become a part of solaris. Already technology transfer is happening. My local Apple rep said a lot of core technologies are being licensed from Sun including ZFS.

      It would be a clear win for both companies. Apple gets instant access to the enterprise, and Sun will make sure the acquisition means that Apple's technologies will get the enterprise-level support they deserve. Currently Apple's so-called enterprise offerings are really not very serious, although they have improved their support with Tiger. Sun can finally sell desktop machines sporting an amazing OS and desktop (under the Apple Macintosh brand) and have a server OS that's powerful and easy to setup and administer and with the better BSD userspace that Apple has.
      [ Parent ]
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.

  • Re:Shooting too low, again. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ilgaz (86384) on Monday March 19 2007, @08:26PM (#18409109)
    (http://www.noooxml.org/petition)

    He wants to make Solaris as useable as Linux? Um, what about shooting for the best usability in the industry, champ?

    -jcr
    Does Solaris userbase (real ones, the ones paying millions to Sun hardware or running mission critical) want "Usability enhancements" or do they want to race with Ubuntu or OS X? I know a genetic engineer who spends her life on Solaris, I didn't see her complaining about usability at all. In fact she lives actual problems on Windows XP desktop since she is not used to it.

    Same went for Debian, some actual admins spoke their mind saying they want peace of mind and a stable OS instead of Ubuntu racing, Digg headlining Desktop.
    [ Parent ]

  • Re:Shooting too low, again. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by cheshire_cqx (175259) on Monday March 19 2007, @08:34PM (#18409161)
    Real apt-get with dist-upgrade for Solaris would be great. Blastwave seems like a stop-gap in comparison. Reinstalling from the DVD every time is a pain, and BFU isn't as comprehensive. In this respect OpenSolaris can learn usability from Debian, and I'd love to see it.
    [ Parent ]

  • Re:Ian Murdock doesn't like democracy (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Valar (167606) <robertprehn@@@yahoo...com> on Monday March 19 2007, @09:01PM (#18409361)
    In other words, democracy has given people exactly what they want. Oh no, boo hoo, the largest portion of the population is comfortable and happy.

    Who are you to say a football player is less important than a programmer? Typical geek chauvinism. Only our kind of talent counts. The world should bow to OUR agenda (witness the "you shouldn't be licensed to use a PC until you understand how one works crowd). And DAMN IT, Dr. Who is better than other TV, even if everyone else says otherwise. I say so, and I am so smart that I must be right.

    You know what though? History has shown that dictatorships and eugenics don't advance the best and brightest, they advance the middle and average. Why? Because every dictator needs the support of a mob. Mobs only support people like them. And by definition, every mob member is on average,well, average.
    [ Parent ]

  • Re:In related news (Score:2)

    by ScrewMaster (602015) on Monday March 19 2007, @09:11PM (#18409465)
    At which point he stood up and threw his wheelchair at the wall.
    [ Parent ]

  • Re:Was It Really Him? (Score:1)

    by poopdeville (841677) on Monday March 19 2007, @10:19PM (#18410003)
    Heh, posting anonymously isn't going to prove much.

    But assuming you're telling the truth: Why don't you try to clarify what you meant by 'usability' as mentioned in other threads on the topic?

    Here's what I'd like to see: A simple, elegant GUI with full 3d acceleration (perhaps beryl/compiz based) without gimmicky, useless eye candy. (Some gimmicky eye candy is useful). Perhaps with a GNUStep back end for running Cocoa applications like TextMate. And a great package management system. Something like a cross between apt and portage would be fantastic.

    Sun has the resources to make this happen. Hop to it! :-)
    [ Parent ]

  • Re:Offtopic (Score:2)

    by RLiegh (247921) * on Monday March 19 2007, @10:25PM (#18410065)
    (http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Sunday July 29, @04:31PM)
    I ordered the media kit dvd on the 2nd and got it in the mail today.
    [ Parent ]

  • Re:Offtopic (Score:2, Funny)

    by caffeine_high (974351) on Monday March 19 2007, @10:45PM (#18410207)
    (http://www.winecard.com.au/)

    I did about 5 or 6 years ago. I was running it on an old pentium pro machine.

    The server was stolen on Christmas eve, including an old keyboard and 14" monitor. The thief was so dumb, he did not notice the 2 new IBM desktop machines still in their boxes, or the 17" monitors also in their boxes in the same room and climbed back out the broken window next to the door that was not deadlocked.

    Must have been an exciting Christmas morning for some kid, getting a solaris server.

    [ Parent ]
  • He wants to make Solaris as useable as Linux? Um, what about shooting for the best usability in the industry, champ?

    And the difference is?

    [ Parent ]

  • Re:Offtopic (Score:1)

    by kennedy (18142) on Tuesday March 20 2007, @07:46AM (#18412737)
    (http://accessdenied.org/)
    no need to order cds anymore, sun will gladly let you download iso images of solaris 10 (and 9. can't find 8 any more on the site, but then again haven't put much effort into it).

    just hit sun.com, and hit the get solaris section. you will be asked to make a login.
    [ Parent ]

  • Re:Ian Murdock doesn't like democracy (Score:1)

    by Gunnhild (1078543) on Wednesday March 21 2007, @03:29PM (#18434057)
    I completely agree. The Leadership Principle is the only effective way to steer the ship of state. The Leadership principle is older than civilisation itself, going back to the first organised tribal society - yet it is also effectively practiced by all modern corporations. It simply means having a leader at the head who directs and plans the best interests of the whole group. He has authority to command, yet must also be entirely reasponsible to the group. The army is organised this way also. Starting with the Commander in Chief, there is a chain of command and rank right down to the private. Through this there is a unity of purpose, a rapid execution of orders, and the most efficient and effective organisation designed by man. Imagine the army using the democratic method, voting amongst themselves as to what action to take! "Should we go over the top and engage the enemy, or should we go on a picnic?". Can you imagine the useless mob such an army would become? They would undoubtedly be slaughtered by any enemy that used the Leadership Principle. Thus it is with the ship of state. Only those who wish us to be destroyed would advocate democracy. And another thing: leaders who are of their own people (and not driven by their greed for financial reward) are most likely to do what is best for their people. History has shown this to be the case.
    [ Parent ]
  • 12 replies beneath your current threshold.

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