Dell Opens a Poll On Linux Options 404
narramissic writes "In response to overwhelming user demand for Linux, Dell has posted a survey on a company blog that asks 'PC users to choose between Linux flavors such as Fedora and Ubuntu, and to pick more general choices such as notebooks versus desktops, high-end models versus value models and telephone-based support versus community-based support.' Votes will be collected through March 23, and Dell plans to use the feedback to begin selling Linux-based consumer PCs." The poll is pretty minimal. Wonder how much it will really guide Dell's choices.
No Poll? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:No Poll? (Score:4, Funny)
This just in: Slashdot Closes a Poll on Linux Options :)
Dude! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Dude! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Dude! (Score:5, Funny)
Cowboy Neal (Score:5, Funny)
Xix.
Smells like a trap. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Smells like a trap. (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't see much more they could have usefully asked. Besides, if you buy your laptop with KDE on it, it's a matter of a few minutes to install GNOME. (And since this is Dell, you can probably expect a set of CDs with at least the most common packages on them. When I purchased Debian CDs once, they came with pretty much the entire repository.)
Re:Smells like a trap. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:No Poll? (Score:5, Funny)
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Slashdotted of course (Score:2)
Slashdotted (Score:5, Funny)
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Obquote (Score:2, Funny)
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
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I do not think that joke means what you think it means.
(Dell's servers seem pretty overwhelmed at the moment)
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Re:I think what he means (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmmmmmmmn, on the one hand we've got a whole bunch of people saying 'we want Dell to pre-install linux', on the other hand, we've got just you saying 'its a bunch of zealots trying to game Dell to make linux look good'.
I know which I'd believe.
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Oh, come on, don't be so cynical. They might be just sweeping up the last few parts of the market now that they've got the mainstream crowd, and I know they ignored requests for more linux for a long time. Still... it does count as a "response" :)
;)
p.s.: yesh, I know you were probably referring to "overwhelming"
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Support? (Score:5, Interesting)
I love Linux and all, but what kind of support would be offered compared to Windows support? I have no experience with Windows support (don't use it), but when I call my ISP and other companies, they ask questions like "What version of Windows are you using?" By being a Linux and Mac guy, I find myself self supported much of the time, which is OK most of the time, but when the internet is down or something that is not OS dependant, I have issues from time to time, and its next to impossible to talk with support people sometimes.
Now, I'm not talking about me. I've run Linux on a number of Dells (hundreds), but I don't need Linux support, but for "normal" people or whatever, what kind of support will they get?
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Well, that's a good point-- Dell doesn't really give "Windows support". If something is wrong with Windows, Dell doesn't fix it. However, all their support directions are written as though you're running Windows ("Go to the start menu and click on 'control panel'.")
If they chose a specific Linux distribution, would it be so strange that they could do the same thing with a specific Linux install? Instead of telling people to go to the "Control Panel", you'd just tell them to go someplace else. Doesn't s
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It would probably be basic (Score:2)
The big one is hardware compatibility testing. All the time you hear of people with Linux hardware problems and the often smarmy response is "Well check to make sure you have compatible hardware first!" as though it w
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Try another false strawman.
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Ah, never wanted to use an SiS 355 video card with hardware acc^H^H^Hdeceleration on Red Hat 8, I see!
Picking a supported video card, of course, is all that it will take for Dell to eliminate that need.
None Please (or DOS if you must) (Score:5, Interesting)
I can install Redhat via a USB drive in 10 minutes so the advantages of pre-installation are minimal.
What I really care about is not paying the Microsoft tax!
Re:None Please (or DOS if you must) (Score:5, Insightful)
Not just that (Score:4, Insightful)
Is it just me, or doesn't anyone else thing that MS must be rather worried about the fact that a large manufacturer is looking hard at selling a non-MS operating system?
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Don't get me wrong: I'm not advocating for the presence of either Windows or bloatware
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And this is precisely why dell doesn't bother selling linux on their hardware, at least up to this point. Because the linux fanatics are going to build their machines from spare parts and load their favorite distro of the month on an underpowered box just to talk about how technical they are on slashdot forums.
D
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An obvious use case, is probably one that most of us here know about. Grannie/Uncle/Friend of a friend asks what the best PC to buy is. We can potentially now say "Buy a Dell with preinstalled {Ubuntu, Fedora, OpenSUSE}".
My vote (Score:2, Insightful)
My vote: not that much.
Laptops please (Score:4, Insightful)
What Dell really lacks is laptops with obvious Linux support. It's still a pain in the ass to look through their website and pick up a laptop that you know has working 3D drivers (ATI blows), wireless, and hibernation support. You can go look around for third party reviews and match model numbers but that leaves you looking off site (and evaluating against competitors) and Dell has a huge turnover in model revisions.
Why Linux? (Score:4, Funny)
Survey Contents (Score:5, Informative)
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No, no, no.
I want Linux Operating System installed on my computer, not Linux Factory!
- RG>
Screw You Dell (Score:5, Funny)
Dell you can go to hell, I am never going to buy your products again!!!
Re:Screw You Dell (Score:5, Funny)
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Egg on my face...
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Egg on my face...
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That would be what the "other" box on the list of distributions is for... voting for a distribution not on the list, like Debian, Gentoo, etc. As for the "It's obvious you Dellosers don't even know the history of GNU/Linux because Debian was the FIRST GNU/Linux distribution", Wikipedia seems to disagree, with Slackware [wikipedia.org] having been out a month before Debian [wikipedia.org] was even announced.
I want FreeBSD (Score:2)
Or, maybe, DragonFlyBSD [dragonflybsd.org]. A complete OS targeting i386 platforms, with fewer GNU-licensing issues to worry about.
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Or, maybe, DragonFlyBSD [dragonflybsd.org]. A complete OS targeting i386 platforms, with fewer GNU-licensing issues to worry about.
What GNU licensing issues?
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I'm not biting. Check a few days-worth of earlier SlashDot articles for the GNU-related troubles, that Novell either has already or may have in the future, should FSF turn more zealous.
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Great business decision Dell.
Be realistic.
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Dell could hire Matt and own DragonFlyBSD altogether. Like Apple, they'll have an OS of their own. Unlike Apple, they wouldn't need to create a fork of an existing one for that...
Win-win...
But if they don't, I'll be happy with Dell systems coming with FreeBSD pre-installed instead.
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No way. Screw this 1970's Unix crap. I want a dual boot Plan 9 / Coyotos system.
Doh! It's the servers, stupid! (Score:2)
Ian W.
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Problem worth considering... (Score:5, Interesting)
Stuff 'the average user'. (Score:2)
The average user will still leave the default options selected with OEM versions of Vista Home and Office.
Anyone selecting Linux as an option knows it's 'for nerds' and fraught with danger. Caveat emptor!
Who's not to say that Dell wouldn't license MP3 codecs, anyway?
What I would like to see from Dell (Score:4, Interesting)
As a Linux user, there's really only two things I would like to see from Dell (or any PC manufacturer). One is the option of buying a computer with either a free OS or no OS (some more casual users (the type that Linux needs to be attracting if it wants to grow its user base) might prefer their favorite distro pre-installed, but I'm more likely to want to set everything up myself). Second, I want to know if the hardware will work well with open source drivers.
The first is tricky for PC manufacturers from a political standpoint; they don't want to offend Microsoft. (I am curious if anyone has a good answer to this: supposing Microsoft were to raise their per-OS lisencing fees as retaliation against a PC manufacturer for selling a non-Microsoft OS, would they get sued for anticompetitive practices, or would they get away with it? Could they retaliate in other, more subtle ways?)
The second is also tricky because many of the better graphics cards don't have open source drivers. (At least, not drivers that support 3d accelleration, which is usually why people buy high-end graphics cards in the first place.) If Dell were to say "sure, we support Linux, just use the binary-only Nvidia driver", that approach isn't going to make a lot of Linux users happy.
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If Dell were to say "sure, we support Linux, just use the binary-only Nvidia driver", that approach isn't going to make a lot of Linux users happy.
But Dell is in the position of selecting the best hardware components based on what their users want; if Dell said to Nvidia "we'd like to use your stuff, but it doesn't work for our Linux customers, who now represent 10% of our customer base, so we're going to offer your competitor as well", I'm going to bet that Nvidia sees the light. They simply wouldn't
For those of you who want to fill this out (Score:2, Informative)
Inspiron
consumer laptop
Dimension
consumer desktop
XPS
high-end consumer systems. Also good systems for serious artists.
support is thin
Latitude business notebooks
just what the name says
OptiPlex business desktops
just what the name says
The survey falls under the Dell small business marketing category
Why is Ubuntu listed as community supported? (Score:2)
Here's an option (Score:2)
How about something a bit more obvious...
How about you guys (Dell) just worry about making sure that your hardware works under Linux. If necessary, distribute patches or drivers as tar.gz files. Don't worry about the OS - leave that to us, the community.
Why tar.gz files?? Because they are universally compatible with all distributions. They may not have all the nice extras like dependency tracking and all that, but name a distribution that can't deal with a tar.gz file. Besides, I would argue that Del
Hard to take seriously a poll with bad HTML (Score:4, Insightful)
Dell language (Score:3, Insightful)
Dell assumes that customers 1) know the difference between an Inspiron, a Latitude, and and an XPS, and 2) care. Even GM gave up on that nonsense and discontinued the Oldsmobile nameplate.
Support wanted (Score:4, Insightful)
Everything else can be done through normal channels.
Choose one distro only (Score:4, Interesting)
Why? Because unlike say Apple who could have this work, the system will be much more open. Apple's system should work because people are locked into hardware and software, but everything is closed so it's tough if, for example, iTunes 7.1 keeps the hardware mounted volume controls from working, to get a fix. Everyone just has to wait for Apple to put out 7.1.1. With Dell and (my choice) Ubuntu, the system is open.
It could work. It could work very well.
Not voting (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Naaa. (Score:5, Insightful)
They can't even ensure that they'll work properly.
Fully testing a distribution on a given piece of hardware probably takes a man-month.
Trying to fix issues that don't work increases that time line.
The best they could do is set up a standard test- run it against a given distribution and give it a percentage pass rating.
Would you seriously pay them $890 for a laptop with a version of linux that passes 97% of tests and they'll show you a list of the 3% of the tests that fail so you can decide if you want to figure out and fix them or not on your own. Myself- I want everything to just work. And that means they can really only use a couple standard flavors.
Re:Naaa. (Score:5, Insightful)
Dell? (Score:2, Insightful)
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The only "linux on laptop" companies I know about take standard big-brand-name laptops renames them, puts Linux on them and then doubles the price.
Why bother with the middleman?
I'll just buy the original Dell or Compaq.
explanation (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Dell? (Score:5, Insightful)
No, it's because they're cheap, and are of basically predictable quality.
Most of the companies that specialize in "Linux laptops" that I've ever seen, charge a significant premium. In some cases, more of a premium than top-of-the-line Apple hardware. But more than that, it's hard to tell what you're buying. If I order a Dell, I have a good idea of what I'm going to get. With a no-name laptop, which is what most of the Linux ones start off as, it's harder to say. I can't go down to Best Buy and hammer on one of their keyboards to see whether it sucks or not. I can't go ask 5 out of every 10 of my friends what they think of theirs. That's a problem.
It hasn't really been a problem to get a computer that will run Linux in a while, if you're willing to pony up bucks. The reason people are so interested in Dell, is that it would mean (hopefully) cheap, known-quality Linux machines, being sold right next to Windows ones. That's a big deal, particularly for the vast field of people who are 'on the fence' about "that whole Linux thing."
Re:Dell? (Score:4, Interesting)
Most of the people who say this haven't actually looked at the price situation recently.
Configure a system from http://www.system76.com/ [system76.com] and an identical one from Dell. Check what the price difference is. My guess is that the couple bucks difference is worth not having to wipe Windows off the system, being *sure* that Linux supports the hardware, and not wondering if you got special discount "Dell hardware" where Dell demanded that reliability or performance be compromised for cost on the Dell system.
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I'm one of the people who have, and I'll tell you he's right. I bought a Thinkpad X60 tablet directly from Lenovo back in December (and got it in February -- Lenovo's supply problems suck). Before doing so, I also checked Emperor Linux, Inc. [emperorlinux.com], which is the only one I've heard of that sells X60s with Linux. The specific configuration (high-res screen but otherwise low-end) I ordered is not available from them, but even th
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But there are so many people who will help them! I have a Dell laptop, and I've been bitten by Ubuntu Bug #43745 [launchpad.net]. I'm already a beta tester for Linux on Dell.
I paid
Well, they've GOT to pick something... (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is that it's impractical for Dell, or any other company, to support every distribution and version of GNU/Linux that's out there. It's also impractical for them to test every hardware configuration with all of those distributions. They've got to pick one. Or two. Or five. Or whatever practical number their support people can handle. (Which I'm guess will end up being one or two at the most.)
Personally, I think they should go with Ubuntu, as it is extremely popular and arguably the most user-friendly distribution. If you want a different distribution, you're free to install it, and it will probably work since you know that the Ubuntu drivers will work on their hardware. But if you get a Dell with Linux, along with their support and guarantee that it will work on their hardware, you'll have to go with the distribution they've actually tested and that they support.
That's the problem, not the solution. (Score:5, Insightful)
One of the reasons that Dell et al have always used as an argument against installing Linux by default, is that Linux users are too hard to please, and the market is too balkanized. With Windows, you have (well, you did, pre-Vista) Home, and Professional, and you can charge extra for installing Professional. With Linux, you have Ubuntu, Novell, Fedora, and god knows what else, and you really can't charge extra for installing one or the other without alienating users.
I think they need to pick ONE easy-to-use "beginners Linux" distribution, like Ubuntu or Lindows, and then offer a 'bare drive' option for users who want something else. Let's face it; if you are enough of a Linux user to have developed a preference between distributions, you can install the damn thing from an ISO. As long as the hardware is compatible and has Linux drivers available, you ought to be able to put anything you want on there.
The argument for pre-installations is really about novice users who can't be bothered to install an OS onto a fresh machine, and just want something that's going to work with minimal fuss. They need a distribution that's as idiot-proof and "polished" as possible, and that's what the criteria for choosing it should be.
They will never bare option. (Score:2)
They must be going off the bios of the Dell. Its stupid, but I guess it saves Dell money, though it negates the bare drive option as I am sure Microsoft would be pissed if they offered it.
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The argument for pre-installations is really about novice users who can't be bothered to install an OS onto a fresh machine, and just want something that's going to work with minimal fuss. They need a distribution that's as idiot-proof and "polished" as possible, and that's what the criteria for choosing it should be.
That's not the only reason. Theres also the question of driver compatibility. The nice thing about offering a linux line is that even if it comes with Ubuntu you can be pretty sure that you'll have driver support for most other distros. That's nice.
Re:That's the problem, not the solution. (Score:5, Insightful)
1) Even if I don't use the version they installed I will know that there are drivers (hopefully open source) available for that specific hardware and these drivers can likely be ported to my distro (if they haven't already).
2) If piece of hardware X isn't working right now I have no idea if it's a hardware or driver problem. If they have a pre-installed version I can throw it on pre-installed distro and test it. If the hardware still doesn't work that still means it's either the hardware is broken or the driver is broken. However with the pre-installed distro I now have the ability to bug Dell about it since in either case it's still their problem.
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The argument for pre-installations is really about novice users who can't be bothered to install an OS onto a fresh machine, and just want something that's going to work with minimal fuss.
I'm not a novice user, and 'something that's going to work with minimal fuss' sounds pretty darned good to me.
I have a couple geek friends who formerly used Linux but are now using the OS/X that came on their Mac laptops. They're easily smart enough to slap a Linux distro on it if they wanted, but they don't. They've got a complete little no fuss package that works just fine and with which they're happy. Power geeks can do all sorts of stuff mere mortals cannot, but that doesn't mean they want to. So
A choice of all distributions. (Score:5, Interesting)
AND NOT COSTING MORE THAN AN EQUIVALENT WINDOWS BOX.
Box A
Windows config - $500
Linux config -
- remove modem (save $5)
- replace modem w/Linux compatible (kernel 2.6.18) (add $15)
- remove wireless card (save $10)
- replace wireless card w/Linux compatible (kernel 2.6.20) (add $25)
And so on. Support "Linux", not "Red Hat". Ship the hardware and let the buyer get support from the distribution s/he prefers.
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Really I'm not that hard to please...
Re:A choice of all distributions. (Score:5, Insightful)
Not gonna happen. Not in a million, billion, trillion years. Dell has to maintain some semblance of quality and reputation. People who don't know what they're getting into, and buy a Dell box with some kind of Linux, are going to be sorely disappointed in Dell once they realize what their support options are. Also, how is Dell going to handle warranty issues? How can they possibly troubleshoot a PC is it has god-knows-what software on it?
Back to the ubiquitous car analogy: Toyota isn't going to sell you a car without tires. It's a hell of a lot more headache than it's worth.
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I dunno--by creating their own bootable Linux CD that runs through a series of tests and prints out diagnostics to the screen that any literate person can read back to a tech? Even better--for computers that are hard wired to the internet provide an easy method to setup a VNC session so the tech can actually see what's happening.
Of course this is only for hardware issues.
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Windows config - $500
Linux config -
- remove modem (save $5)"
No can do, it's on the Mobo, no savings.
"- replace modem w/Linux compatible (kernel 2.6.18) (add $15)"
Takes a slot. The more slots you takem the more slots they need. However, this will probably not be an issue since most people only use a slot for a video card.
"- remove wireless card (save $10)"
Also onboard, no can do.
"- replace wireless card w/Linux compatible (kernel 2.6.20) (add $25)"
Now you have taken two slots more then before...
"And so
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The biggest problem we have now is that you never know if a
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It's not important to you, but to novice users it's critical. They don't want to get a bare-drive machine. To them, that's not a feature, it's broken. They need to have a machine that's ready to go, with the OS, and office suite, email, and all their other crap. (Unfortunately, Linux will be semi-permanently broken in the multimedia department due to patent/royalty/DMCA issues...) If you only sell bare-drive machines, you limit the market
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If my local bookshop is any guide... (Score:2)
Linux is scary for the first time user but Ubuntu is surprisingly resilient. I'm running Feisty upgraded from Hoary with no previous debian experience.
I'm sure Canonical would love the extra business if Dell outsourced support to them.
Why can't they bundle books on their on-line store with titles on open office, ubuntu etc?
They need to pick hardware that has open sour
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Apple's OS X (and Microsoft Windows) is like Doritos (yum, Doritos). Doritos arrive fully loaded. Now, if you really want, you can load MORE stuff unto the Dorito by dipping it, and you can even scrape away some of the cheese-like topping, but not much. Most people eat Doritos right out of
Take the easy way - dump it on Linus. (Score:3, Insightful)
Pretty much the same way they provide "support" for Windows.
Take your installer disk and re-install the system and it will be back to the same way you received it. Too bad about your data.
Come on. The distributions can do better than that without even trying. Dell doesn't provide
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