Linux Starts to Find Home on Desktops 364
WSJdpatton writes "The much-hyped notion that Linux would be a viable alternative to Windows to run desktop and notebook PCs for corporate users seemed dead on arrival a few years ago. But the idea is showing some new vital signs as companies look for cheaper alternatives to Microsoft products. The Wall Street Journal outlines several firms that are reaping savings and stability on their workplace desktops by rolling out Linux distributions. 'Auto maker PSA Peugeot Citroën last month said it will start using Linux on 20,000 of its workers' PCs. Novell Inc., which sells a version of Linux and is supplying it to Peugeot, says it has recently signed up several large U.S. financial institutions that are installing Linux on some employee PCs. Sales of Linux PCs are showing a really nice uptick at Novell, says Ronald Hovsepian, chief executive of Novell.' Not everyone is a convert, though. 'The State of Illinois recently consolidated its IT systems onto Microsoft software -- and has no interest in using Linux, says Paul Campbell, director of the state's Central Management Services department. "We don't have time for science projects in state government," he says.'"
Don't have time (Score:5, Funny)
Apparently, they don't have time for security either...
Re:Don't have time (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Don't have time (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Don't have time (Score:5, Funny)
The number of Deceased Americans is expected to grow to unimaginable proportions as time goes on, and so protecting their rights is important to do now.
This is not to confused with Reanimated Americans (formerly known as zombies), who tend to be vocal almost exclusively on health care issues (notably, brains).
Re:Don't have time (Score:5, Insightful)
MS also donates software (and otherwise, I'm sure) heavily in districts where people of political influence reside.
It's sad, but I don't question that a good level of MS support in the government is simply bought - one way or another.
Mr. Campbell would be wise to word his MS preference carefully, as the voters of Illinois' citizens may feel their tax dollars should go to science projects that could save them tens of millions. Monies that could be put to good use for education in low income areas, real estate I'm well aware Illinois has in great abundance.
donations (Score:2)
http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search_hp.asp?t
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You will excuse me, I trust, if I don't find "amazing" an adoption rate outside the server rooms that can still be measured in the single digit.
Re:not microsoft's fault (Score:4, Insightful)
In all honesty, were Windows open source - my perspective might well change. I couldn't honestly say, since that option obviously not available. But I would certainly give it a chance.
An example would be an issue one of my desktops has with msvcirt.dll that causes issues with (some) C/C++ compiled programs. It's a known issue, and there is even a hotfix that was developed in October of 2004. Amazing how it's still a hotfix, in 2007. I can even get the hotfix - all I have to do is pay $59. I might even be able to get it free by calling MS and sitting through a half hour of interrogation about my Windows license (And yes, it's legit - OEM from Dell, it's the principle of the matter that bothers me most. If I wanted to be treated like a criminal just to be a customer, I'd buy music CDs, too.)
It sounds to me the process of denail, blame, and self righteousness might be at work here -- but I don't believe it's in support for Linux adoption. Linux is free. It is also an extremely reliable platform. Most importantly, it is an open system. Should something go wrong, you are able to fix it yourself -- should you be capable.
The only thing I see giving MS an advantage is the fact they already have the majority of the market-share. As MS' market-share lowers and Linux adoption grows, we will see a greater level of commercial software development on Linux -- and the game will certainly change then. Personally, though, unless you use MS Office or play games only available to Windows -- there's really no benefit to having Windows over Linux aside from preferences. And I imagine a great many people will always prefer Windows because it is familiar, if nothing else. Honestly, for the work I do on the PC -- were it not for the completely crap inability I have to fix problems within Windows due to it's closed nature -- I would probably prefer Windows for the GUI environment. I guess I just like the GUI better, to be frank. But when it comes to the dirty 'real' work - I will always have a preference for the unix-like command line of Linux.
Then again, if UltraEdit-32 was available on Linux, haha - that might change too. Ohh my, what a mind twister!
In the end, both OS' have room for improvement. I like them both, but to say anyone promoting either OS is in denial, blame, or self-righteous is just arrogant at best.
Windows can be as secure as Linux (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Windows can be as secure as Linux (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Windows can be as secure as Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
I disagree. For a normal person/environment, this is not the case. Out of the box, the average Linux distro is more secure than Windows Vista. If you put work into Vista you can make it about as secure from a technology perspective as the average Linux install, but you can't change the malware ecosystem which targets Windows more and presents it with more threats, making the overall risk on Windows greater. Also, for more secure, managed environments you can utilize SELinux or something that provides more fine grained control than Vista can offer in a usable environment unless you have access to the Windows source code, which normal people don't.
So if you're aiming for a level of security that is sort of middle of the road, then you can (with extra work) get Windows to the same state as the average Linux install, but you'll still have a higher risk. Further, if you're aiming for something above and beyond that, Windows just can't achieve some of the security layers that Linux can, so it will always be a bit behind.
Re:Windows can be as secure as Linux (Score:4, Insightful)
This is not even remotely true. Linux is inherently more secure than Windows by design, at least if the security-related features are actually used (and I'm not even referring to selinux, for which there is no Windows analogue.) And on top of that, security holes in Linux are typically fixed much faster.
I do not agree that it is possible to make Windows as secure as Linux unless you're not even turning the Windows machine on. And even if it were true, with the same amount of effort put into both, you could still stay far out ahead with Linux.
Re:Windows can be as secure as Linux (Score:4, Insightful)
When on fire you're just as secure as when you're not, for definitions of "secure" that mean you are unlikely to be hit by a russian nuclear device. Seriously, that's not a very reasonable definition of "secure" and even looking at that premise there is at least one outstanding, public privilege escalation in Vista right now and there almost always is in the current version of windows, while the same is not true on Linux. MS has never taken local escalations seriously.
Windows is the low hanging fruit both because of default security and because of the monoculture install base size. Because of the increased risk on Windows and the education level of the users, its security needs to be technically superior to Linux to achieve the same risk and that is just not likely to happen anytime soon.
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Citing the methods would be "informative". As it stands, this is an opinion - one not shared by everybody in the security industry, I suspect. Shared by many in the security industry, perhaps, but not all.
Default and easily are relevant (Score:5, Insightful)
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Windows Server has been gain
Re:Don't have time (Score:5, Insightful)
Frankly, compared to Microsoft, pretty well any alternative is a magical security wand.
State governments don't have time for BS.
If only...
Windows Server has been gaining popularity lately with good cause- it's a product that's quickly improving.
I've been hearing that tune since Windows 2.0 came out. Lost interest long ago.
TWW
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Windows isn't a magical fairy security and stability wand. [Securing] Windows is also a massive paradigm shift in... IT training.
Re:Don't have time (Score:5, Insightful)
Decent IT departments have no problems with Linux either.
Re:Don't have time (Score:5, Insightful)
All of which is bullshit because the moron at the Illinois state office said, "We don't have time for science projects..." - which is a clear demonstration that he has no clue what he's talking about when it comes to Linux and therefore isn't a competent IT person.
The bottom line for any IT department should be just that - the bottom line. And Windows is KNOWN and DEMONSTRATED by industry statistics for being detrimental to the bottom line because of the costs of licensing, the cost of unreliabiliy and downtime, the cost of insecurity, the cost of complexity, and the cost of vendor lock-in compared to UNIX in general and Linux in particular.
COMPETENT IT organizations will choose that software which over time will be cheaper to own and operate. Training costs are a small part of that effort - and would not be a problem had not INCOMPETENT IT organizations chosen to lock themselves into Microsoft products.
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But vendor lock-in still sucks, and there's continuing hope that a heterogenous world will force MS to behave better.
Re:Don't have time (Score:4, Insightful)
No, industry studies have proven that using COMPUTERS WITH SOME OS gets things done faster and cheaper over paper and pencil. The fact that the only OS studied was Windows is not relevant.
And you can't compare an OS that has had hardware vendor lock-in for the last fifteen years - and was the ONLY available cheap OS (DOS) for ten years previous to that - with an OS that only became usable in the last five or so.
That says nothing about which OS is better NOW. It also doesn't say anything about the excessive costs of the Microsoft approach.
Linux can facilitate a lot of low-cost common denominator products just as well as Windows - once people realize that the OSS development model is just as good as the commercial development model (and Linux can use the commercial model just as well as Windows, in any event.)
It simply hasn't reached critical mass yet to do so - and that is because of vendor and corporate inertia encouraged by Microsoft with their contracts, their glad-handling sales reps, and their pseudo-monopoly status.
The point is, to paraphrase Microsoft, where do corporation want to go? To more vendor lock-in, insecurity, unreliabiliy, and expense - or change the terms of engagement and try a different approach which is already demonstrating its feasibility in large-scale deployments?
Do corporations really want to make Bill Gates richer while getting nothing but headaches in return, or do thsy want to get on with THEIR business and put some of that saved money into THEIR business?
In the end, it really comes down to: is there ANYBODY in corporate management who has a clue?
Oh, wait, never mind.
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That's irrelevant in this case
If it's irrelevant, then why did you feel the need to make it a point in the first place?
The point is that solid IT is the difference between a secure system and an insecure system, not the OS.
Oh right, because the OS that a system is running has absolutely NOTHING to do with the security of the system...
In case you've been absent, the initial point was that there's no case to switch. If Illinois was switching from paper and typewriters to computers, we might have a situation where going with Linux could potentially be cheaper.
The point about OS security should not be taken out of context. Within reason, linux and windows are basically secure if implemented properly in an enterprise environment. Just because a fair share of home Windows users like to go on wild clicking sprees and download everything
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It's an issue now for many, many IT departments because we're all in for a big, expensive paradigm shift. Remember when you switched from 2000 to XP and suddenly, you needed to upgrade all of your servers and workstations to support the bloat? Guess what, Vista and Server2k3 is pushing this same treadmill on us again. XP has also gotten considerably fatt
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As a state employee, I can assure you we have the time.
On a more serious note, MS solutions certainly don't work right out of the box. They take a fair amount of massaging and coercing to get them to operate in a mostly functional way. Is Linux a drop-in replacement? By no means. Is it a feasible replac
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The remark "less important states" aside, we (Americans) would ALL like to know that our tax money was being spent wisely. But applying "tried and trusted" to Microsoft products seems a bit odd unless you are a Microsoft employee or are related to t
Re:Don't have time (Score:5, Interesting)
CMS DIRECTOR RESIGNS
SPRINGFIELD, Ill. (AP) -- The head of a powerful Illinois government agency resigned today after a sometimes-rocky tenure.
Paul Campbell's resignation from the Department of Central Management Services takes effect immediately. He had been director for nearly two years and was assistant director before that.
A spokesman said Campbell will become a vice president at United Health Care.
Central Management Services is the agency in charge of most state purchasing and hiring. Its influence has expanded under Governor Rod Blagojevich (blah-GOY'-uh-vich).
But state auditors have repeatedly found management problems there, from paying improper expenses to overstating the results of cost-cutting.
The agency's hiring procedures have also been scrutinized amid questions about whether Blagojevich has awarded jobs based on politics.
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This gets score zero why? The poster is a complete newbie here? Or the Windows shills are out in force again...
This post demonstrates exactly what I said above - this Illinois state guy is clueless as to Linux and has no idea what he's talking about.
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When someone posts as Anonymous Coward, their starting score is zero. Windows shills have nothing to do with it.
Nice knee jerk though.
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Okay, I'll buy that.
Let's see how long it stays zero - it should get at least a one for informative.
Re:Don't have time (Score:5, Informative)
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Mod parent UP!
This article pretty clearly destroys this idiot Campbell as anything but an incompetent and probably crooked state employee who knows absolutely nothing about Linux, IT or anything else but graft, apparently.
The luxury of wealth (Score:2)
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Never lived in Illinois. (Score:2)
The Illini Case Study (or Lack Thereof) (Score:5, Insightful)
You know, where I work, if you make a statement like "would save our company $10 million" you kind of need to make a business case. A large part of the business case is having micro experiments & demonstrations & data to present to back up your business case. In fact, it's a lot like the scientific process where you present facts that prove your argument. Granted, it's not required to be that rigorous but you usually have to get those to agree with you through this.
If I were a tax paying Illini and that document was the only thing persuading me that my government should use Microsoft products, I would bitch. That's just me, though. I think precisely what this Joseph Campbell needs to do is a "science project" as he calls it. For some reason they're avoiding a "business science project" and I'm really questioning his motivation for circumventing that.
Re:The Illini Case Study (or Lack Thereof) (Score:4, Funny)
You don't work for the government, do you?
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Unnecessarily subsiding a monopoly using taxpayers money, could well be considered fraud.
Let's not ask why he never looked at alternative suppliers in his current role.
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2: decide to do a "case study" on "total cost of ownership"
3: recieve massive discounts from MS.
4: publish the difference between 1 and 3
everybody wins!
Case Study of Corruption. (Score:3, Informative)
According to this [ap.org], the office was a scandal. If anything, it's an example of how not to do things.
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Why the hell shouldn't we? As far as I'm aware of, the govt is using our tax dollars to pay for it right?
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no, they are using corporate kickbacks. your tax dollars go to pay for the stuff that the corporations don't pay taxes to support.
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And where do you get the notion that Groupwise will not be supported under Linux? Novell already runs most of its company under Linux - do you think they use Exchange?
Another Microsoft nitwit.
These clowns don't even bother to try thinking for a second before posting this nonsense. They don't even care how stupid it makes them look. All they care about is getting their licks in for Microsoft.
Here's an idea - why don't you go up to Redmond, find Bill's office and just suck his dick for a living. I'm sure Bill
Ouch (Score:3, Insightful)
I felt that one hit my balls.
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ME too!
I don't eve use linux on any sort of regular basis.
seems fair (Score:5, Funny)
seeing as how science projects rarely make time for state governments.
perhaps the linux community needs to reach out. you know what might do the trick is yet another repackaged ubuntu distro that caters to some cultural minority. maybe you can call it illinibuntu or just dabuntu.
And we all know how efficient State Government is! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:And we all know how efficient State Government (Score:2)
So that explains it. (Score:5, Funny)
That's why they never bothered to find out how so many dead people were able to vote in Chicago elections.
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Microsoft and Corporate Welfare (Score:2, Interesting)
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>> with out fear of them going else where.
And look at what they've accomplished:
Science Projects? (Score:4, Funny)
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The last time I went for a license renewal it took a grand total of 15 minutes, start to finish. Not 5 years ago that had the potential to be an hour-long process, possibly more at the extremely busy Chicagoland DMVs.
It's true (Score:5, Informative)
I haven't completely weaned myself off XP yet, but I'm working on it. I advocate Ubuntu though to anyone who wants to find out for themselves that desktop Linux, even though it may not have been in the past, is now a genuinely viable reality.
Re:It's true (Score:5, Funny)
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Good luck!
Linux has found a home on my laptop (Score:5, Insightful)
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My story is sort of the opposite of yours. I'm a long time user of many OS's, but lately I find myself using Linux less and Windows more. The reasons for this are a bit complicated. The recent trend towards hardware assisted virtualization has finally allowed me to consolidate all my workstations into a single laptop. That is very cool and it means I can directly run Linux at the coffee shop, whereas it used to be available only at my desk at work (not counting server use). You'd think that would make me us
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Textpad: $30
I actually wrote "TextEdit" which is another one bundled with OS X (I use it to edit .doc files quickly with a small footprint).
Sure, if you can spend $1000+ on software then there's no problem finding replacements, much better ones too.
I'm a professional. My company buys my hardware and software, unless it is something I buy for one of my contract jobs. When I'm doing contract work I bill about $100/hour. The cost/benefit of software that lets me do half my tasks faster pays for this software really, really quickly. One of the things I'd like to stress, however, is that it is not always an either/or situatio
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My main problem right now is trying to get 3D acceleration working for my laptop video card so I can run modern games under wine... "glxinfo | grep rendering" returned "direct rendering: No" so I tried to fix it and ended up with a string of 5-6 errors instead of the desired
New distributions are helping a lot the process (Score:2, Interesting)
Linux is getting there, slowly (Score:5, Informative)
It's still going to take a bit of time before it's fully ready for the home desktop though. I use 802.11 wireless as a perfect example of that - amongst the 'warm and fuzzy' distro's (SuSe, Ubuntu, Mandrake, Lycoris), I have yet to be able to set up a system where there wasn't a fairly significant amount of rigmoral to get something as simple as wireless with basic encryption running. It wasn't really 'hard' for me to get the wireless running, but in each case, it required editing of text files, and typically no less that 7 or 8 CLI entries. Linux has come a long ways, even in the past 2 or 3 years. I think Ubuntu is a great example of a good, easy to use OS. However, there's still a few dark and nasty corners of Linux which need polishing before it's ready for the masses. And let's not mention games and brand name apps which only run under windows.
Overall, it is exiting to see and watch. For the first time ever in the past few months, I've been able to recommend Ubuntu to begginner and novice users, as an easy-to-use alternative to Macs or Windows, with a straight face.
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I agree, Linux is ready for the corporate desktop, as an IT department or consultant can make sure everything works.
And Linux is ready for the home user who doesn't use any hardware other than what is standard on a desktop PC. Laptops and wireless are still iffy. But that's coming along nicely - and would do so faster if the damn manufacturers could supply driver information, if not actual drivers. I still say IBM and HP and others who are making money off Linux need to pressure - or pay for - the periphera
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This makes this stuff *much* easier.
Even with older SuSEs (10.0 and older), YaST2 has pretty good 802.11 WEP/WPA support. Not sure why you had problems.
Anyways, with the new distributions (in particular openSuSE 10.2), NetworkManager hits the 802.11 ball out of the park; wireless encryption is as easy as on an OS X box, and a great deal easier than on an XP box.
Misquote (Score:2, Funny)
Retraining costs is a red herring (Score:2)
Wow. I was so lost, it wasn't funny. Vista and, from the screenshots, Office Vista... whatever... are going to require 100 pounds of retraining per person at any corporation.
Things are in the wrong place, the menus have all vanished or mysteriously moved to the right side of the window, except now some of them are text and some of them are icons.
I have a hard time believeing that if you can get your head wr
Science projects (Score:2)
Science Projects (Score:2, Insightful)
What if Chicago donated the time of all the workers painting "Richard M. Daley, Mayor" on every garbage can in the city? That could free a lot of time.
I live in Illinois. This is no big surprise (Score:2)
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This could explain why the version of Ubuntu I'm running (Feisty, the development branch) has had (I think; I'm at work at the moment) an extra control panel added which is HP-branded, specifically for their printers. It seemed strange at the time but if HP printers require some crazy non-standard
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Funny! My Okidata LED printer runs flawlessly with Linux as an HP LaserJet 4. Of course, just about any LaserJet compatible printer on earth should run like a champ with the HP LJ 2P driver. If your printer is a LaserJet, I'd start with the 2P driver and move up from there.
Now inkjets are a different matter entirely. It's a safe bet that any printer that costs less than the ink that goes inside it is not going to work with Linux, or OSX for that matter. These printers h
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I still have a hard time as an administrator to get things like HP Printers to work with Linux. When I do get them working, I run into strange things like not being able to print out a landscape PDF in portrait.
Either you're using very, very outdated printer software (*ahem*redhat*ahem), or you're using applications that aren't designed to work with modern Linux printing software like CUPS, hpijs, gnome-cups and KDE printing support. Whether inkjet or laser, I haven't had such problems with any HP printers in a very, very long time.
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SuSE & openSuSE default to A4. I'm in the USA, so all the paper I buy is letter size. Change the default page size, and this issue vanishes for me.
I've had this on a color Laserjet (forgot the model number), and a selection of HP PSCs and All-in-Ones.
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What sort of image program doesn't have printing support out of the box?
Then I have a suggestion for your boss (Score:5, Insightful)
Either hire a better administrator OR just suck it up and be a windows shop.
The simple fact is that lack of skills in your employees is a problem you have to deal with in many fields, either hire better ones, train the ones you got OR do without that skill.
It is the reaon you see those semi-cars. They are small trucks drivable with a car license that have a setup similar to a semi (those big trucks with a tractor element and the eh cargo element (am I dazzling you with my tech speak yet?)) because transport companies find it impossible to hire enough people with truck licenses (and are unwilling to train new ones). They offer more cargo space then a van wich in some business is more important then their low weight limit.
Linux will have to be a choice similar to that, you can forget getting your nephews 12 year old kid to configure it, you are going to have to move your business software of Excell and you are going to have to hire someone who in 2007 isn't still baffled by setting up a printer.
Oh am I too harsh? Well, I am so sorry but for the last decade I seen nothing but people come up with one excuse after another why Linux is so hard, while at the same time I get those things working without a sweat. Am I that brilliant, are you that stupid OR are you just making up excuses.
Use windows, but don't try to put the blame on linux.
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"It is the reaon you see those semi-cars"
Must be a European thing.
The US equivalents are "hot shot" rigs where a large "dually" pickup pulls "gooseneck" or fifth-wheel trailers.
Our Department of Transportation is getting wise to this and ticketing appropriately when the rigs aren't permitted for interstate commerce.
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What interface are you referring to then?
The biggest drawback to Linux is that it requires a modicum of intelligence to learn. God forbid anyone should have to expend effort in an attempt to learn something new these days.
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1) It's free. You're not shelling out big bucks for an operating system or the programs that go along with it.
2) Support is fairly simple to find. Most, if not all, Linux distros I'm aware of have a help forum of one kind or another.
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As far as support goes, the minute you tell them to go to a forum, you're asking them to put more effort and thought than they're willing to. Most of the regular users I know don't even like calling Dell for support. Posting on forums is a significant barrier in terms of effort and psychology. Most people feel like they aren't talking to a real person over forums, or that a forum post is less reliable than a "tr
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Good reasons to use linux, just off the top of my head and in no particular order:
1. Able to run on old hardware
- Fewer hardware upgrades cost you less money
2. Freely downloadable, freely upgradeable.
3. No phone calls to MS to prove you bought the old software you are trying to install on new hardware.
4. Proper user accounts (everyone can have their own account, so they don't mess with your stu
Re:Said it before... (Score:4, Insightful)
To be quite frank, software freedom is kinda an out-there idea for a lot of people not closely associated with FOSS or computers in general. Dropping that on their lap is likely to put them off. If you can frame it in a way that illustrates exactly how it benefits them without bringing all the emotional baggage that typical FOSS screeds carry, then you will be a lot more successful.
Thats why people talk about cost a lot. Its a very effective trojan to get FOSS into businesses.
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And when he asks you if you have specific examples of this, what are you going to point him to?
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Tom
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My MacBook Pro suspends/resumes just fine using suspend to ram.