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30 Days With Ubuntu Linux
Posted by
Hemos
on Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:29 AM
from the making-the-switch dept.
from the making-the-switch dept.
jkwdoc writes "Vexed by Vista's hardware requirements and product activation issues, many have claimed on various boards that they plan to 'switch to Linux.' [H] Consumer spent 30 days using nothing but Ubuntu Linux to find out if this is truly a viable alternative for the consumer. Linux has indeed become much more than the 'Programmer's OS.'"
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Apple: HardOCP Spends 30 Days With MacOSX 708 comments
boyko.at.netqos writes "Hardocp.com has published "30 days with MacOSX" — with the same author from "30 days with Linux" and "30 days with Vista" doing the evaluation. Ultimately he likes the stability and security but other concerns keep him from recommending it. From the article: 'The hardware lock-in and lack of quality freeware makes owning and maintaining a Macintosh an expensive endeavor ... Mac OS X has some amazing capabilities, but you spend a lot of money. Indeed, it seems the preferred method for solving Mac computer problems is to buy your way out of it. Slow computer? Buy a new one. Want to convert a file? Buy a utility. Want to do simple tasks? Buy a commercial program. Peripherals don't work? Buy replacements.'"
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Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Interesting)
IMHO, anyone who wants all the control of building your own computer, reads a website which has overclocking in the name and thinks Linux/FreeBSD/Open Source is either misguided about the benifits of Linux or is just lazy. Putting your own computer together these days with all the options, choices to make, etc. is getting harder than it was 10 years ago. Meanwhile, Linux has been getting easier. So I don't see where the challenge is for these people.
It is nice to see that non-Linux people are continuing to give Linux a try. Most things in the world only get one chance and then its over.
Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Insightful)
The challenge is in the purpose. AFAIK, people don't just got into the guts of their system to crank everything up for the joy of theoretical numbers to throw around. Generally, they're after the biggest, baddest box for a reason. A big reason for a lot of people is gaming, after all...it's what consumes the most horsepower. And gaming is currently where Linux falls short. I think if more games (that people want to play) were available with native Linux support, more people would be willing to switch.
Distro's like Ubuntu are great for non-technical users to have a solution to hop on the Internet, check email, do word processing, that sort of thing. In short, all the stuff that a non-technical user is likely to do with a computer anyway.
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Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Insightful)
I call bullshit on that one (and yes, I was putting together my own PCs ten years ago).
Then: A dozen different video card manufacturers, twice that many chipsets, equal variety of drivers.
Now: Two major manufacturers, two unified drivers.
Then: IDE=slow. Master? Slave? Cable? WTF is this?
Now: SATA - plug and go.
Then: Set up your modem to connect to your ISP and hope you don't get any incoming calls. Firewall? What's that?
Now: ADSL. Wireless routers. Built-in firewalls.
Then: Scanner? SCSI (and don't forget your terminators). Printer? Parallel. Video in? Forget it.
Now: USB and Firewire.
Then: Steel case weighing 20kg, built out of razor blades.
Now: Complete kit with rounded internal edges, fans in the box, you name it.
Parent
Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, you have 5 differant processor sockets, 8 differant chipsets, 3 differant memories all in multiple speeds, differant power supply sockets, PCIx, PCI, and AGP, etc... Plus, it is harder to tell which parts are the fastest or best value now that everyone says their chip all their chips are equivallent to 4 GHz. The chance of being able to upgrade to current equipment is much less than it used to be. Replacing a processor now almost always means memory, power supply, motherboard, and heat sink.
All of this is hard enough building a windows machine, but now couple on getting Linux compatibility, and I say no thanks. I have built dozens of machines for family and friends, but I no longer do. I tell them to go to Dell, buy the cheapest thing, upgrade the memory. I don't have support or warranty issues. Im not returning parts that are wrong, etc...
My best solution to this problem was that when my super tricked out brand new system got stolen, I bought a mac, and it was one of my best computing moves. I paid a rediculous amount, but 3 years later, I haven't felt the need to upgrade it once.
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Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Funny)
I tend to do it on purpose and then tell people it fell down the stairs...
Parent
Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Funny)
Was there some other kind of jumper?
Parent
Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Informative)
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price
1 Rosewill R103A Black SGCC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 350W Power Supply - Retail
Model #: R103A
Item #: N82E16811147010
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$30.99 -$5.00 Instant $25.99
1 Foxconn K8S755A-6ELRS Socket 754 SiS 755 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Model #: K8S755A-6ELRS
Item #: N82E16813186068
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$36.99 $36.99
1 MSI MX4000-T64 DDR AGP 2X/4X Low Profile Video Card - Retail
Model #: MX4000-T64
Item #: N82E16814127128
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$23.99 $23.99
1 AMD Sempron 64 2800+ Palermo 1.6GHz Socket 754 Processor Model SDA2800AIO3BX - OEM
Model #: SDA2800AIO3BX
Item #: N82E16819104244
Return Policy: Processors (CPUs) Return Policy
In Stock
$27.00 $27.00
1 WINTEC AMPO 512MB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Desktop Memory Model 35145588-P - Retail
Model #: 35145588-P
Item #: N82E16820161615
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$33.99 $33.99
1 Western Digital Caviar WD800BB 80GB 7200 RPM IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive - OEM
Model #: WD800BB
Item #: N82E16822144102
Return Policy: Limited 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
$40.99 $40.99
1 LITE-ON Combo Black IDE Model LH-52C1P-187 - Retail
Model #: LH-52C1P-187
Item #: N82E16827106058
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$23.99 $23.99
1 Microsoft Windows Vista 32-Bit Home Premium for System Builders Single Pack DVD - OEM
Model #: 66I-00715
Item #: N82E16832116202
Return Policy: Software Return Policy
In Stock
$119.99 $119.99
Subtotal: $332.93
Parent
Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Insightful)
You know how Windows has "My Documents", right? And that's the default place for downloaded files to go?
The analogous concept in Linux is the "home directory". It's called that because each user account on the system has one, and that user has complete power to do whatever they want there, unlike most of the system which requires admin privileges to make changes.
The home directories, logically enough, are all stored in the
The home directory is where the system is going to store lots of stuff -- configuration files for applications, downloaded files, you can even install applications in there (if you're the only user who needs them). In this way the "home directory" concept is more expansive than the "My Documents" concept, which is only for document files (your configs are in the Registry, your apps are in Program Files). It's also why the home directory is more useful than My Documents -- if you regularly backup your home directory, you will have nearly everything you need to bring your Linux box back from the dead in case of emergency.
Parent
retromercial (Score:5, Funny)
Commendable but... (Score:5, Insightful)
What's really needed is some 'professional' IT organisation to sell a definitive Linux solution for a whole workplace. And support it. And point out that actually it a) costs less to support and b) is way cheaper.
Personally, I think it's viable, and I can see IBM gradually moving that way, and perhaps Sun too. But they'll have a lot of work to do to overcome the 'No one ever got fired for buying Microsoft' attitude that's ingrained into most of the workplaces in the world. (I'm still somewhat stunned at the complete lack of understanding of the mere existance of Unix that I see in my current, IT company).
*shrug* I look forward to a day when every business desktop runs Linux. I think there's a lot of people who's talents are wasted being support monkeys for cranky windows bogosity. But at the same time, I can't see it happening, simply because it'll put a lot of people out of work.
Who the hell is this end user that edits DVDs? (Score:5, Interesting)
She DOESN'T do any DVD editing. She DOES use digital photography (in that I send her pictures of her great grandson and she views them). She's even managed to solve minor problems on her own. She writes documents, receives documents (both word and excel), and has had no issues to date that could not be solved in 10 minutes on the phone.
Her only major complaint? It's not the user interface. It's not the multifunction printer/copier/scanner. It's not the funky colors. It's not the email. It's that she can't make the computer wit more than 2 hours before hibernating.
Perhaps these "reviews" of "typical users" should evealuate what a real "typical user" actually is.
It's the Internet! (Score:5, Interesting)
My question to Ubuntu/linux preachers (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd usually spend efforts trying to improve on things that would help me at work.
Anyway, now im starting a web hosting and web design (very) small company. I'm not really impressed by the direction MS is taking nor by the fees its charging. Vista smells like a truckload of overhead shit that i have zero interest in even trying out. The 2003 line of servers from MS is just too expensive just to avoid mentionning i hate the notion of online activation/tracking.
I've installed Ubuntu and other distros of linux at the time and while I've always got stuck with the file structure and various command lines to learn, i feel this is something i could get the hang of over time.
But what brings me back everytime to windows are my own limitations regarding programming. At work, we do ASP and ASP.net. Not c#, vb.net. I can read c# but i don't really program with it.
I have no interest in learning php, ruby or other languages despite all their advantages. Because at work that's not what we use and I'd rather re-use my skills rather than split into a new branch just because im having something on the side.
so, my question is, is there any (easy) way i could be running the
I know its pretty contracdictory but i dont want to install overhead on my server just for the benefit of running
So, is it possible ?
Re:My question to Ubuntu/linux preachers (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Get the mono (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.mono-project.com/ [mono-project.com]
Parent
Re:On the other hand... (Score:5, Insightful)
Does have a normal UNIX shell environment?
Then it's got all the control you need.
Parent
Re:On the other hand... (Score:5, Informative)
Sudo gives you root access for the purpose immediately at hand, and then takes you back to your account. It lets you get in, get out, and not have your fanny hanging out there on the net in admin mode for someone to burn you.
Parent
OS changing is too complicated for most people (Score:5, Insightful)
Changing OS is too complicated for most people, and there's not enough payback. If it works, why break it? If you can send email, and look at the web, and write a letter, and it took a lot of pain to get that far, why change the system you use and have to learn all over again, maybe losing your old files? That's how most people see it.
Changing OS may cost nothing financially, but for many people, their time isn't free. The time required to install the new software, get up to speed using the new tools and assuring yourself that you can access your old files and all your other hardware (printer, digital camera, internet connection, etc) is either lost business time (=costs money) or lost personal time (=time away from more pleasant use of leisure time). It's only "free" if you were going to spend that time messing around with a computer anyway. For many people that's not the case.
Parent
Re:Obligatory karma hit (Score:5, Informative)
Oh, and:
5) If you act like a spoiled jerk on a community-driven forum, stamp your little feet, and absolutely refuse to try any of their troubleshooting ideas or provide them with the information they repeatedly ask for, then they probably won't help you.
Yeah, I read the thread [ubuntuforums.org] where you "tried" to get help. Your take on the episode doesn't have a lot to do with what you actually posted at the time.
Moderators, before you mark me down, actually read the Slashdot thread he linked to. I'm not the one who initially pointed out his tantrums and complete refusal to help fix his own problem. I can't believe that he uses that thread as supporting evidence of why Ubuntu is broken.
Parent
Re:Obligatory karma hit (Score:5, Informative)
Before you make this even more frustrating for me:
Nice way to ask for help. Sure makes me feel like giving you a hand (or maybe a boot up the ass). Mm-hmm.
I should never have believed all that crap about "providing access to all".
Useful information? Missing. Needless slagging off of OS you're purportedly trying to convert to? Check.
Thanks for any assistance you can provide in helping undo the damage Ubuntu has done.
I guess there wasn't quite enough needless slagging off yet.
I thought -- probably because of all the liberation/openness rhetoric of Ubuntu -- I wouldn't need Microsoft software to get Ubuntu to work.
And I guess he thought you were actually interested in recovering your PC instead of trolling the forums.
So in other words, you didn't read my first post, in which I said that the disc is fine and I've tried reinstalling multiple times. This just makes my day.
If this is how you act towards people you've never met who are trying to help you, I'd hate to work with you.
Don't see what difference that makes, given as I can't even get into Windows, and the problem is obviously due to GRUB. Seems like a fishing expedition there.
How about just giving him the fucking information he asked for? Too much to ask for some people, I guess...
Just yesterday I thought I knew what chutzpah was.
"Starting on the right foot" would include "not getting locked out of my computer because I installed a OS billed as 'Linux for Human Beings' ". "Starting on the right foot" would include finding instructions that answer the frequently asked question of "how do I set up a new partition and install to that partition?". "Starting on the right foot" would include an Ubuntu forum that doesn't take me a week of trying to access from different computers and connections before it consistently loads.
Stop making excuses. So I wouldn't answer what Windows version it is. Can anyone think of any reason why one version of Windows over another would cause GRUB error 25? No? Okay then.
The problem is not the devices, or the Windows version, or getting the latest install CD, or scratches on the install CD. The problem is the boot loader. The problem has already been diagnosed. You just want to chase all these wild geese because you don't want to admit that maybe this "access for all" OS has a serious problem.
Would somebody just tell me how to edit, modify, fix, whatever, the boot loader? That's all. It should be really simple, given the rigorous testing that they would put a software capable of locking you out of your computer through.
Sheesh. You actually expected that to make people want to help you more than they were already?
Parent
Re:ya but (Score:5, Informative)
Tremulous: http://tremulous.net/ [tremulous.net] (Repositories free)
Legends: http://legendsthegame.net/ [legendsthegame.net] (download free)
Uplink: http://www.uplink.co.uk/ [uplink.co.uk]
Darwinia: http://www.darwinia.co.uk/ [darwinia.co.uk]
Defcon: http://www.introversion.co.uk/defcon/ [introversion.co.uk]
Don't assume they're all rubbish till you've actually played them. Preferably on Linux. (Except Sim City. Thats rubbish.)
Parent
Re:ya but (Score:5, Informative)
It's a catch 22. More people would use Linux if the games were there. But the games aren't there because not enough people use linux.
For the record (before I get poo pood) I've had ubuntu and mandrake on 2 seperate comps. My laptop (3-4 years old) runs everything just fine. My desktop (2 years old) did not have driver support for what I have in it, and most likely will not receive driver support (Soundblaster X-fi sound card). Not to mention the config editing I had to do to get the Nvidia 6800 to work.
As a hobby Linux is fine. You won't get the gaming freaks to switch over any time soon.
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Re:ya but (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:I remember similar stuff said about XP (Score:5, Interesting)
Now Vista on the other hand has elicited nothing but hand wringing for several years. For what I can tell it has little good to offer except eye candy. On the downside the OS has DRM in it's DNA, it has a ridiculous security sceme. It fails to run lots of current software. It claims but fails to be more secure (can't use 3rd party anti-virus). It has extreme hardware requirements. I built my last new PC within months of the release of XP. I will not build a PC for Vista. I will not buy a PC with Vista. I do not look forward to the day that I must start using Vista at work.
The big question is this: Linux or Apple? I have an older PC in the house running Ubuntu. It's great, and it also sucks. It has tons of free software. It can't legally play DVDs. It is supremely stable and runs really fast on very antiquated hardware. Getting it to do something out of the ordinary (like using the midi keyboard I got for my son) requires navigating a byzantine maze of forums, scripts, command lines. It fit nicely with my philosophy. You can build your own. On the other hand, Apples "just work." They cost more. You don't get to build your own. Since I don't have as much time as I used to I'll probably buy an Apple for 90% of my use, and I might have a 2nd PC with linux for doing stuff that requires high end software that I don't care to buy.
That being said, am I a typical user? Hardly. I've been on the internet since 1988. I built my last computer myself. I know enough to know how little I know. Lots of people think I'm some sort of computer guru. I realize that I am just barely competent. I would never recommend linux to my Dad or a computer-clueless friend. I tell them, "Go buy a Mac. They just work." When they get their Apple, they are happy. I'd rather USE a computer than ADMINISTER one.
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