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Dell To Linux Users — Not So Fast
Posted by
kdawson
on Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:12 PM
from the still-with-the-Windows-tax? dept.
from the still-with-the-Windows-tax? dept.
PetManimal writes to tell us that after all the hubbub over Dell's note about manufacturing Linux-friendly Dells and choosing distros, the company is now telling users not to expect factory-installed Linux laptops and desktops anytime soon. According to the article, Dell says that lining up certification, support, and training will 'take a lot of work.' "The company said today that the note was just about certifying the hardware for being ready to work with Novell SUSE Linux, not an announcement that the computers would be loaded and sold with the operating system in the near future..."
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Pre-Installed Linux On Dells Coming 340 comments
When Michael Dell took back the reins of he company he founded, one of the first things he did was to launch the feedback site Dell Idea Storm. Following up on the recent Slashdot discussion of the early results of this experiment — an overwhelming expressed desire for pre-loaded Linux — Dell reports on what it plans to do with this feedback. Quoting: "[W]e are working with Novell to certify our corporate client products for Linux, including our OptiPlex desktops, Latitude notebooks and Dell Precision workstations. [On the question of which distro to choose:] "[T]here is no single customer preference for a distribution of Linux... We want users to have the opportunity to help define the market for Linux on desktop and notebook systems. In addition to working with Novell, we are also working with other distributors and evaluating the possibility of additional certifications across our product line."
[+]
Your Rights Online: Dell Censors IdeaStorm Linux Dissent 228 comments
thefickler writes "It seems pointless to seek ideas and feedback if you're going to ignore and delete the opinions you don't like. That's exactly what Dell is doing with its IdeaStorm website, which the company set up to solicit such ideas and feedback. Dell deleted a post linking to an article that criticizes its handling of the 'pre-installed Linux' issue."
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Dell To Linux Users — Not So Fast
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Re:huh? (Score:5, Informative)
That's why Dell Linux would be nice. (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://yro.slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/177855 | Last Journal: Sunday November 04, @10:56PM)
Sadly there is trouble with Dell hardware/software even in their 'big business' server sales. ... our group bought from Dell, and got machines with closed source, YOU CAN'T RELOAD THE OS WITHOUT OUR PROPRIETARY BINARIES software.
Ugh, $60,000 worth of disposable equipment.
Wouldn't it be nice if they had just picked some scsi cards that have free software drivers? How nice it would be if Dell used it's market might to ask for specifications or free drivers instead of how non free companies usually do it - asking the maker to keep things secret.
Re:That's why Dell Linux would be nice. (Score:5, Interesting)
Not to sound like a broken record around here, but why would Dell go out of their way to find components that work on an OS that is in direct competition with the one that ships with (currently) 100% of their hardware?
Something about not biting hands that feed you?
</asbestos chainmail>
Re:That's why Dell Linux would be nice. (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://yro.slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/177855 | Last Journal: Sunday November 04, @10:56PM)
Not to sound like a broken record around here, but why would Dell go out of their way to find components that work on an OS that is in direct competition with the one that ships with (currently) 100% of their hardware?
For three simple reasons:
You sell what your users want or you go out of business. What they sell now, contrary to their claim, does not really work with any of their hardware. Indeed, M$ is the source of all bogus compatibility problems, the people who gave you Winmodems and destroyed Alpha (remember 64 bit computing ten years ago?), who trashed Netscape and gave you rampant botnets, who crapped out OpenGL and gave you DirectX version 1 through 10 in far fewer years. I could go on and on, but you get the point. Hardware and software makers like simple and stable interfaces, M$ has done everything in their power to thwart real standardization. Their users know this and want something else.
Something about not biting hands that feed you?
Yes, it's strange but it's really customers that feed Dell, not M$. The only reason Dell does not give their customers what they want is because they are afraid of M$ biting them in the ass, which is already sore from their mistaken loyalty to Intel. As Vista tanks and other vendors start doing well, you will see how backward your thinking was. The fact they are even mentioning gnu/linux means Dell knows where their friends really are.
Ask me again and I'll tell you the same until I see different.
Woops! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Woops! (Score:5, Funny)
(Last Journal: Thursday June 28, @08:26PM)
Re:Woops! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Woops! (Score:4, Funny)
Comfy? (Score:4, Funny)
Disclaimer: The above message is intended to make absolutely no sense at all, if it failed in this the author would like to apologize in advance.
Dude! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Dell will not betray Microsoft. (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://vcolo.com/)
People who want linux preloaded also want professional grade support.
And they're going to Dell for this?!?!?!?!?
Re:Dell will not betray Microsoft. (Score:5, Interesting)
1) No high-end AMD systems (their instruction set is better supported on Linux)
2) High-end systems do not provide an option for high-end nVidia cards (their drivers work better on linux)
3) All high-end systems require purchase of MS Windows
These problems are unacceptable and force me to look for alternative manufacturers. If you know of someone that will actually build a good linux system (desktop system, thank you very much) then let me know, otherwise I'm going to end up doing it myself again - and honestly, that's getting irritating.
Re:Dell will not betray Microsoft. (Score:4, Insightful)
Fine for you.
But Dell has to provide meaningful technical support to make a go of OEM Linux in the consumer market.
You don't tell retail customers to Google for answers, you don't sent them to the IRC chat rooms. You provide the level of support that is appropriate for users new to Linux or you will drown in a flood of red ink.
Linux users coming on too fast for Dell... (Score:5, Interesting)
Before we do this, you love me don't you???? Couldn't resist. I'm so getting flamed for this one...
Dell needs to continue listening to its customers, and give me Linux on my Dell (dude). The first step for this should be a Linux hardware forum where they discuss possible chipsets and identify possible incompatibilities before they occur. An open forum by such a large manufacturer may also put some pressure on chip and card manufacturers to open source their drivers.
The Widget of Sticky
Re:Linux users coming on too fast for Dell... (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://rtfm.insomnia.org/~qg/ | Last Journal: Wednesday November 16 2005, @07:11AM)
Re:Linux users coming on too fast for Dell... (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
Certification is a "Good Thing" (Score:5, Insightful)
Essentially certification means that the hardware will operate as expected/designed. Sure the kernel will support the network card... but will it support it when someone wants to make some off the wall settings that are supposed to work?
Not to mention, with the level of integration and customization done by Dell and their OEM suppliers, using a supported Broadcom NIC, for example, does not mean that it will operate correctly in Linux.
Besides... it gives linux credibility. I know I have purchased hardware thats on the linux HCL and run into compatibility issues or hardware that is supported but has limited functionality. Things have come a long way, but they are far from perfect.
Maybe they are just waitng... (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.tolldog.com/ | Last Journal: Saturday November 01 2003, @10:53PM)
Yes, its good they are considering Linux on their machines. But how many people will actually buy it? How big is the market for Dell to bother with selling it? Most people using Linux in the workplace already have their preferred Linux hardware vendor. Most people that are Dell shops are MS exclusively. That leaves the companies that have mixed vendors and home and personal use.
Verifying hardware and drivers and support staff will take time and money. They can't switch overnight, not Dell. They are too big to do it quickly. If they don't do it right the first time, they will alienate everybody that may have been interested in the past as well as losing the money they spent on failing. If they take their time and do it right, they can start eating in to HP and other hardware vendors that ship with Linux certified.
Re:Maybe they are just waitng... (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.ganjablogger.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday January 05 2006, @05:36PM)
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that Dell wouldn't be interested in investing the time and effort in stable linux support on their hardware in order to sell to their existing customers. They are doing this in hopes of gaining a piece of the millions of computers running linux.
'Verifying hardware and drivers and support staff will take time and money. They can't switch overnight, not Dell. They are too big to do it quickly. If they don't do it right the first time, they will alienate everybody that may have been interested in the past as well as losing the money they spent on failing. If they take their time and do it right, they can start eating in to HP and other hardware vendors that ship with Linux certified.'
On that point I couldn't agree more. When this is done and it is successful it will be a huge milestone for Linux. First Linux was considered a joke for actual use. It wasn't polished like windows and wasn't considered stable and secure like traditional unix. Then it creeped into the server and now it is a proven and even common server solution. Now Linux is generally considered the ideal choice for the backroom unless vendor lockin ties your business to a windows only feature. In recognition of this Dell offers server systems with Linux pre-installed. This will be the next step that means that means the time of Linux on the business desktop is here. It will take awhile to fill this segment. Just like it took awhile for Linux to move from internet related servers only to being accepted for every server room function. Eventually the secretary will be running Linux and it will be informally trickling into the home user desktop.
Every year they claim it is the year of the linux desktop. What people seem to forget is that Linux will never go out of business. The linux on the desktop cause has no need for this year to be the year. Five, ten, or twenty years from now is just as good as this year. Every year the linux desktops outpace the proprietary systems in development and close compatability gaps. Every year the desktops become more polished and suitable for new classes of users. Every year the battles in the real desktop war, that of mindshare, continue to be won and the current desktop monopoly retreats a bit more.
Dell's linux support problems (Score:3, Informative)
(http://www.jointhesolution.com/mdsolar | Last Journal: Tuesday August 21, @12:19PM)
If that is the problem, start suggesting a group that could just step and handle the workload.
Sun doesn't own the Sun, no one does. http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-user
Re:Dell's linux support problems (Score:4, Interesting)
Big companies do jack on their own these days, its (almost) all hired out consultants, and for good reason. Consultants are competitive, when you put an order out for bid a consultant will shave every dollar they can off the price to make sure they get the contract. This is why the open source model is so fantastic, the money in providing Open Source Services instead of Open Source Products is incredible, and it even allows for innovation (though if it's gonna be distributed, it has to come with the source). Constant, competitive, powerful innovation drives Open Source to be the BEST OF BREED, and that's who companies should hire.
The Widget of Sticky
A.K.A, The Adhesive Thingamajigger
better be good (Score:5, Insightful)
Let Dell take their time because if this is going to work its going to have to be seamless and familiar. I'd actually be thrilled once Dell picks out a distro because thats a big impetus to standardize a lot of things to it, GUI, installer and package manager especially. If you can get a standard cross distro installer and package format, unfortunately like InstallShield, that correctly adds entries for menus, and just works then Linux is really ready for the desktop.
Why SUSE? (Score:3, Interesting)
The documentation and community around Ubuntu is so strong that they'd surely get far less phone-calls if they chose this distribution, while 're-selling' Ubuntu's commercial support option if the customer desired it. In other words, ship with Ubuntu soon/now and just outsource the support to either the community or the paid pros? I'm sure if Dell was to start shipping with Ubuntu pre-installed Mark would consider edging something like 'Feisty' into LTS status.
I would be surprised if the only reason they wouldn't do something like this is to meet MS half way, as their SUSE vendor. It's obvious the most noise regarding Linux on Dell points toward Ubuntu.
Disclaimer: I'm not a daily Ubuntu user, I've just seen users that try it stick to it for a sustained period, whether coming from SUSE, Windows, Fedora or OS X.
Re:Why SUSE? (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.fiveeightforums.com/)
One, they are partnered with Microsoft, so they won't lose the deals they get from MS for their Windows-based systems, which will undoubtedly outsell their Linux-based systems, at the very least for a long time.
Two, SUSE is one of the few distros that has paid support. Unfortunately, as hard as it may seem to believe, people actually tend to PREFER paid support. Mostly because it means end-users can have people kissing their ass as they try to find the any key. Also, I'm sure it's easier for Dell to figure out who's full of it when they get applicants for Linux support because "experience in Ubuntu" doesn't mean quite as much as "worked at Novell".
Disclaimer: I'm both a Windows (2000 and XP) and Kubuntu user, but most certainly not a Dell user.
It takes a long time... (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.stox.org/)
Damn Dell (Score:4, Funny)
Msft to Dell, on the red telephone: (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.telegraphics.com.au/ | Last Journal: Tuesday November 06, @03:35PM)
Re:If they can get a penguin logo on every PC (Score:4, Funny)
Hasn't Ballmer lost his mind already?
Throw in 2 CDs (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://www.public.iastate.edu/~crb002 | Last Journal: Wednesday October 13 2004, @12:29AM)
They should just include a Suse CD and make a deal with Microsoft to include a CD with a 30 day trial copy of Vista.
Microsoft is happy, linux users are happy, everybody is happy.
They have a valid point. (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://www.chrisllorca.com/)
Today for instance I was attempting to install my nVidia drivers onto my OpenSuSE 10.2 install, and it is giving me a very difficult time. Without the drivers, I can run the desktop at 1024x768 on my LCD. Once I install them, it doesn't recognize my monitor, and refuses to give me any other resolution but 800x600 at 50Hz.
Things like that simply HAVE to work from the get go. People are used to popping in a CD, or clicking a few buttons, and their products work. They will not take the time to jump onto IRC and talk to some really angry geeks who think they are gods of computers and try out any terminal commands.
I think Dell is on the right track at least because this puts some pressure on the other OEMs to tap into the market. Basically whichever OEM finishes the infrastructure first (my money is on Dell by way of India and China) gets the prize.
Novell-Microsoft (Score:3, Insightful)
(http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc3675.html)
Not necessarily a stupid move, since distributing that operating system quite possibly violates (or will violate) the GPL. If copyright infringement lawsuits result from the Novell-Microsoft deal, Dell would likely want to hold Novell at arm's length.
How about the low-hanging fruit ? (Score:4, Interesting)
(http://ekj.vestdata.no/)
Surely it doesn't take a lot of time to manage to deliver a laptop or computer just with a plain-old *empty* hard-disc ? I don't see what testing or certifying or whatever should be needed to do that. It's also what most nerds would want anyway, because you can bet whatever linux-variant Dell opts for ain't going to be precisely the one you want anyway.
A "naked" variant for all their computers would be a good first step, and should be easy.