Pre-Installed Linux On Dells Coming

When Michael Dell took back the reins of he company he founded, one of the first things he did was to launch the feedback site Dell Idea Storm. Following up on the recent Slashdot discussion of the early results of this experiment — an overwhelming expressed desire for pre-loaded Linux — Dell reports on what it plans to do with this feedback. Quoting: "[W]e are working with Novell to certify our corporate client products for Linux, including our OptiPlex desktops, Latitude notebooks and Dell Precision workstations. [On the question of which distro to choose:] "[T]here is no single customer preference for a distribution of Linux... We want users to have the opportunity to help define the market for Linux on desktop and notebook systems. In addition to working with Novell, we are also working with other distributors and evaluating the possibility of additional certifications across our product line."

Which distribution does not matter.

As long as "Linux" has the drivers for the hardware. That's all that matters.

Dell's laptops cost MORE w/ no OS than w/ Windows!

Dell is paying consumers to use Windows! The exact same Dell Latitude D520 Notebook costs $48 MORE if it comes with no operating system than if it comes with Windows. Here are the specs and links to Dell's online shop:

Processor: Intel® Core(TM) 2 Duo T5500 (1.66GHz) 2M L2 Cache, 667Mhz Dual Core
LCD Panel: 14.1 inch XGA LCD Panel
Memory: 512MB, DDR2-533 SDRAM
Hard drive: 60GB 5400RPM
Modular Bay Optical: 8X DVD
Wi-Fi Wireless Card: Dell Wireless(TM) 1390 802.11g Mini Card
All other options: set to "none".

The laptop loaded with Windows XP [dell.com] costs $699, while the same laptop and configuration loaded with no operating system [dell.com] costs $747.

So it seems that Windows has a negative price tag as far as Dell is concerned! That's hardy Linux friendly or even consumer friendly. It's downright rotten, and I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't going to end up in an anti-trust lawsuit against Dell and Microsoft.

Re:Dell's laptops cost MORE w/ no OS than w/ Windo

"The laptop loaded with Windows XP [dell.com] costs $699, while the same laptop and configuration loaded with no operating system [dell.com] costs $747.

So it seems that Windows has a negative price tag as far as Dell is concerned! That's hardy Linux friendly or even consumer friendly. It's downright rotten,"

All major brand-name computers come with a ton of crapware pre-installed. Why do you think they do that? Because they get PAID to put in there. When you eliminate Windows, you also eliminate the extra revenue from pre-installed crapware.

Re:Dell's laptops cost MORE w/ no OS than w/ Windo

I guess they'll just have to port all the crapware to linux too!

Re:Dell's laptops cost MORE w/ no OS than w/ Windo

Well, you can get RealPlayer for linux. The only downside is the linux version doesn't nag you.
I remember in the early days of WINE I tried to install Bonzi Buddy just for kicks. Locked up the machine hard.
Enough with all this 'open-source'. Give me my MSN Messenger with malware banner ads!!

Re:Dell's laptops cost MORE w/ no OS than w/ Windo

The laptop loaded with Windows XP [dell.com] costs $699, while the same laptop and configuration loaded with no operating system [dell.com] costs $747. So it seems that Windows has a negative price tag as far as Dell is concerned!

So Dell is saying that the presence of Windows degrades the value of a computer? I can't argue with that.

Re:Dell's laptops cost MORE w/ no OS than w/ Windo

Congratulations, sir. You've just shown to me just how important the frame of mind is. I'm taking a lesson from this, one almost worthy of the Tao of Computing.

Re:Dell's laptops cost MORE w/ no OS than w/ Windo

Umm... that system you linked to is $669. Maybe they've changed it after you linked it to make you look foolish!

To compare apples to apples, you must change the hardware options on the no-OS laptop to match those found by default on the Windows laptop: Hard drive and Modular Bay Optical. Then you'll see that the laptop without an OS is $48 more expensive.

Re:Dell's laptops cost MORE w/ no OS than w/ Windo

"Why does everyone insist that it doesn't come with an OS? It clearly states that it comes with FreeDOS."

The DVD box for Episode I claims to have 6 hours of entertainment....

Re:Which distribution does not matter.

Exactly! If I can purchase a laptop from a company knowing it will all just work out of the box in Linux, they will have my business almost immediately.

Re:Which distribution does not matter.

As long as "Linux" has the drivers for the hardware. That's all that matters.

It's my understanding that the dilema for Linux is that device manufactures are reluctant to have their hardware designs exposed in Linux code, therefore they usually don't give out their specs to Linux developers.

Even if OEMs were willing to offer the same non-disclosure agreements to Linux developers as they offer to Windows developers, with the understanding that these developers distribute binary-only drivers, you'd still have the problem that Linus and the core kernel developers have said many times they're never going to go out of their way to support backward compatibility of binary drivers. Any such support would inhibit the free development of the kernel.

But apps in Linux depend not only on your kernel version but many other things: what desktop you're using (some apps compile differently for gnome than they do for kde), what libs you have, not only if you have gtk, but what version.

All this is great for a hacker like me. But the problem for Dell will be in choosing from the gazillions of combinations that make GNU/Linux what it is.

I say, good luck to them. But it's not going to be easy if your customers just expect everything to be like it is in a Windows world.

For real?

If dell keeps this up for any amount of time, we could see a large upswing in the usage of linux on the desktop. Here's to this being more than a pipe dream.

Re:For real?

Now only if there will be enough people actualy requesting it to make then want to keep offering it.

It would be a real slap in the face for Michael Dell if after all the support for linux installed computers was shown on the ideas website, and the company taking steps to do so, and then find out there isn't really a demand for them.

Let's hope there are enough customers doing more then saying they are interested to keep this going.

We've been down this path before.

It would be a real slap in the face for Michael Dell if after all the support for linux installed computers was shown on the ideas website, and the company taking steps to do so, and then find out there isn't really a demand for them.

#1. The "support" has to include ALL the hardware on the box.

#2. The boxes have to be the most popular boxes Dell sells already.

#3. The price cannot be higher than the equivalent Windows box.

We've already seen "support" which doesn't include everything in the box, which only includes boxes that most people wouldn't buy in the first place and which, for some reason, cost MORE than buying the same box with Windows.

That's just a ploy to "show" that "no one" really wants Linux on the desktop. Fuck Dell. We've heard it before. If they're really serious this time, it's up to them to demonstrate that.

Re:We've been down this path before.

What if the price differnce is spent in making sure the linux works on everything? I mean Dell forks a Distro, setd up maintainers, brands it themselves and you have the option of Dell linux or MS windows for the same price?

From a recent post by a Dell guy on the Fedora Advisory Board list [redhat.com], I get the impression that Dell isn't in a hurry to fork a distro even just for re-branding. And that's juuuust fine by me. I don't care what distro they offer, so long as the hardware can be made to work with any Linux distro.

If that means a Dell repo with some proprietary drivers, that's fine with me (for now). I wouldn't want Dell to offer ATI or nvidia hardware only for Windows configurations.

Re:The "Not Ready for Prime Time" OS

Let's see if we can let some wind out of your sails...

Linux on the desktop will always be a pipe dream. Why? Because Linux refuses to address it's fundamental deficiencies. How many decades longer will it take to get a real installer package which works on every distro?

There is an installer that works on every (and I mean EVERY) distro. Unlike windows, Linux distros includes all the software in one location generally called a software repository. If all else fails, there is always "./configure && make && make install". It isn't that hard.

How many decades longer will it take to get the OS to auto-detect and auto-configure new hardware? How many decades longer does Linux need to spend looking at the distant taillights of Windows 95?

Hell, Windows XP doesn't even do that. If it wasn't for "idiot disks" made by manufacturers the average Joe Sixpack would be just as screwed when the malware ate his system. I have udev installed and it works just fine. I don't know what your problem is.

But on the positive side, Linux wins hands-down in the "air of undeserved superiority" department, and it also has more text editors than any other OS. When you have tens of thousands of options for text editing, it seems you really don't have to worry about getting it to work as well as Win95 did.

Well let's just look at what you get with an "out of the box" Windows XP install shall we...

You get paint, notepad, wordpad, solitare, Internet Explorer & Outlook Express, a broken media player and a calculator. That's it. I bet you can be real productive with those...Last time I looked in my distro's repository I had over 40,000 programs spanning 150 categories.

Dell's overtures toward Linux are nothing more than a bargaining chip in it's licensing fees with Microsoft. Consumers don't care about/for Linux, they just want something they know and can use. If someone drops a few hundy on a new PC then finds out they can't go to Best Buy to get software for it, that's going to be one pissed off consumer.

That may be. Only time will tell. That is one downfall to Linux is software availability in stores like Best Buy. Here you have a chicken and egg thing going on....Not enough users of Linux demanding stores carry software (mostly because it is readily available all over the Internet) and stores thinking there is no demand for it (which isn't necessarily true either). As for a customer using Windows software in Linux you are discounting the possibility of virtualization. If setup properly, by the manufacturer, then that takes away that argument.

B.

I hope Ubuntu is an option.....

I hope Ubuntu is an option. First, because it's a stable and easy to install distribution and it just works. I have installed it on a number of platforms and have been very pleased. Its package management system is awesome. I don't have the broken dependency issues I use to have with Fedora/Red Hat.

Second, it has both versions available to the public for free being the Long Term Support release and the more bleeding edge. Unlike Red Hat, Ubuntu is willing to "eat its own dog food." Even on the more bleeding edge releases of Ubuntu I don't get the impression that I am running a broken beta release like I did on Fedora.

Third, if you want to utilize it within the workplace you can sell it to management that there is official support available via Canonical, although there are other means of support as well. In addition it has already gained commercial acknowledgement through vendors such as Sun, IBM, and MySQL etc.

Last, but not least because it's completely free Dell can install it on a system and not have to add the associated cost of a license. Perhaps let the user make a donation for each installation of Ubuntu?

Re:I hope Ubuntu is an option.....

Ubuntu have an OEM version which would make life much easier for Dell.

Beside, Canonical is providing support for Ubuntu.

Re:I hope Ubuntu is an option.....

Ubuntu makes very good sense for Dell to distribute, especially since they've licensed Click'n'Run [slashdot.org] from Linspire. Should make the average user's life easier when they want to listen to /watch their media files, besides Ubuntu being a great desktop distro.

Kudos to Dell - let's hope they're willing and able to do this right.

Soko

Re:I hope Ubuntu is an option.....

Just yesterday I was looking at getting a new laptop, and was dismayed because everything came with Vista. I am not an early adopter, I'm possibly a luddite compared the /. crowd. However, I've heard more good things about Ubuntu than any other Linux version, I would rather buy a laptop with Ubuntu than Vista. So, give mainstream America another two years to catch up to where I am, and your dreams of Microsoft falling may be realized.

Yeah, right.

Just watch. They'll put Linux on one overpriced laptop, won't make it cheaper than the version with Windows and Office, and will hide the order page for it. Then they'll claim the market doesn't want Linux.

Because if they do more than that, Microsoft will cut their discount.

Dell used to have a Linux laptop. They discontinued it.

Wal-Mart used to have a Linux laptop. They discontinued it.

HP used to have a Linux laptop. They discontinued it.

Re:Yeah, right.

I more than share your concern and am a Linux devout myself. However rather than whining, dont you think we should believe in free-market theory?

HP/Dell can do whatever they want, MSFT can play its tricks withing legal limits. If linux deserves it and is really needed, someone will start offering it soon.

IMHO, so far OSS have been bogged down by bad user experience. We are at juncture where its changing. Look at Ubuntu frenzy.

I wish Vista crams more DRM and they discontinue anything but $500 enterprise ultimate editoon (or whatever its called). And, Dell and HP dont offer any thing in Linux. That way one day when I am looking for new job, I can create Linux-only-Dell :-)

Bottom line -- we should stop whining and making the user experience better and better.

Re:Somebody set up us the lack of demand

Do you honestly think a company like Wal-Mart, who will argue with a vendor for MONTHS about 2 extra inches of floor space being allocated to their product line, is going to spend the TIME, RESOURCES and MANPOWER to get these in and then not advertise them? I remember the advertising for the Wal-Mart Linux laptops. There was no shortage of it. But the bottom line is they didn't sell. Customers didn't want it. So, Wal-Mart being a business, they got rid of it. The same way they get rid of the potato chips that don't sell and bring in another brand that does. Business is about business and what makes money. You can claim all the reasons you want about why it didn't sell, but at the end of the day they are no longer there because very few people bought them. Wal-Mart could give a rats ass whether it was a Linux laptop, Windows desktop, bag of pretzels or a bottle of bleach.

Re:Yeah, right.

Part of why the Windows desktops are cheaper is because of the insane amount of crap sponsored to be put on there. A bit like advertisements keeping certain things free (for better or worse). So of course if they go and sell a machine without those (not many crapware marketing in the *nix world), they have to make up the difference somehow, either by raising the price, either on only putting it on high profit margin desktops. Sucks, but thats how it works.

Re:Yeah, right.

No, thats the thing. The anti-spywares, anti-viruses, etc...Dell don't pay for that. They MAKE money on it: the users don't even WANT it, if they could keep the same profit margin without putting it on, they would, as they'd sell more. For all practical purpose, putting Windows on the box actually ends up with a negative price tag , something that right now, even "free" linux can't beat.

Got my Linux on Dell years ago

http://www.emperorlinux.com/mfgr/dell/ [emperorlinux.com]
Several other good manufacturers, to boot.
Rock solid, hard drive laid out to your taste, including dual boot configurations with that lesser operating system.
My biggest quibble is they don't Gentoo, but if you're batty enough to run that (like me) you probably know what to do. ;)

Crapplets

I do appreciate Dell doing this. Really, I do.

But I fear the coming of the Linux Crapplets. I fear what happens when AOL starts placing icons on my Gnome desktop.

And I pray that Dell does the right thing and drops the crapplets -- insist that they stop paying per machine sold and start just paying for Windows licenses sold, and use the money saved there to avoid preloading random crap other than the OS.

Why not Gentoo...

This would give the best range of options for desktops... giving a high degree of quality as well since everything is custom compiled from source.

FCC

When Dell decided to follow through with the Idea Storm idea I was reminded of something that happened after the Super Bowl a couple years back and keeps happening occasionally. Something will happen on TV or radio and about 20 people from Focus on the Family will freak out about it and complain to the FCC over and over again. The FCC then freaks out and does something stupid like increasing censorship or fines. Similarly when the dedicated Linux community decided to take over Idea Storm they should've been ignored as they are simply an extremely vocal minority. That Dell is considering wasting that money is a sign that Dell is desperate and instead of making better looking or cheaper computers they will instead cater to the extremist elements in the IT society. It's too bad. I really like my Dell but if they are going to waste their resources on this fruitless endeavor then I'll take my money elsewhere.

Re:FCC

Why is it bad for them to focus on a niche? It doesn't preclude them also making better looking or cheaper computers.

Moreover, if they become a solid Linux vendor, they'll be able to pick up a lot of high-margin sales pretty easily. There's plenty of professionals using Linux on some pretty pricey hardware. It doesn't take much volume to make up for the effort if it's high-end workstations you're talking about, and getting the hardware certified with major Linux distros would allow them to keep a lot of the OS-related costs that currently go to Microsoft.

It's not going to save the company, but it does have the potential to be a profitable niche.

They can start ..

.. by listening to their customers who want quality computers that do not break down and also bundle poor support.

I did a consulting job for help desk at a gaming company and more than always it was odd dell desktops and laptops that had issues or had very bad drivers. Dell loves to modify their video hardware so vanilla nvidia and ati drivers wont work. Sometimes new laptops have drivers from 2005 that wont run many games properly and no recourse to upgrade the drivers.

Also I have never seen techs load tcp/ip stacks on systems that fail to authenticate to a domain controller. Sound odd? It happens with Dell corporate desktops. At a former college they had a guy whose sole job was to run around with a diskette that had the proprietary tcp/ip stack .dll files for failing Dell pcs. Incredible!

dell playing to the microsoft/novell patent-troll?

As if anyone needs reminding, the caption in Dell's ideas in action [dell.com] page says "Dell recommends Windows Vista(TM) Business." Will Dell soon be recommending Novell's distro, together with its nonesensical patent-indemnification FUD?

users can "help define the market"

We want users to have the opportunity to help define the market for Linux on desktop and notebook systems.

Gee. Thanks, Dell! We users wouldn't be able to define the market on our own without your permission.

Vanilla "Linux"?

I certainly appreciate the idea here, and hope they're doing this for the right reasons (not some of the cynical-but-possibly-true ideas posted in this thread elsewhere). But I've never known two Linux users who preferred the same setup. Ubuntu here, Redhat there, BeOS, OpenBSD, and so on. I'm a Windows guy for the most part, but have run installations of all of these here and there over the years. I don't quite know how they're going to implement something like this and please much of anyone. With Windows or OSX, you get one default installation and you adjust it cosmetically a little bit (though at the OS level it's pretty much the same). With all the flavors of Linux, you can set it up almost any way you want.

It's great that the system cost might be lower if the Windows tax isn't applied, but is anyone who prefers Linux really going to use whatever comes installed? Most will wipe it as soon as they get it, just like you would if you ordered a Windows box/laptop. I think what would be nice (though certainly not a productive business model for Dell) would be to step up their options for OS-free machines and then put the energy otherwise spent on Linux installations on creating a repository of drivers for ALL platforms for their hardware. That way you could install whatever the hell you want but have some help with the hardware fun that all Linux users spend so much time on.

Linux users, for the overwhelmingly large part, seem to me to be roll-your-own types, and fairly advanced in their understanding of stuff like this compared to their Windows (and even OSX) counterparts. So why not work with that instead of making this "Linux alternative" option viable?

You can already get...

RHEL on Precision workstations. I noticed them on the Dell site several weeks ago.

And we had a story a couple of months back about getting Linux on their "E" series systems (IIRC).

distribution choice

I don't care what distribution they settle on, as long as they don't rely on proprietary drivers. From my POV if it is running some kind of mainstream Linux distro, the odds that my preferred distro will work are very much higher.

Wow; Mike likes to sell computers.

That is what is I call leadership. This guy is about as different from other CEOs as Steve jobs was from all of his predecessors; they were loved by wall street, but hated by the customers.

Finally Dell does something right...

Burning down houses and forcing IT guys to clean up systems with 128 MB of RAM only tops my list of complaints with Dell. At least Linux won't be as memory intensive as Windows so that being said I hope we don't see (further) stagnation in increasing the minimum amount of RAM in their bottom line.

NOVELL ???

I always get my medications from the Borgias , why do you ask?

  No wonder MSFT is not objecting to Dell selling non windows machines ( if in fact they did not).
Did Novell know this when they signed on with MSFT?
Will anything be available but SUSE?

A scenario: Dell sells SUSE exclusively, SUSE degrades because of FOSS comm. dislike and GPLv3.
  MSFT says "I told you it wasn't vey good, use an OS supported by professionals".

If...

If Dell does start offering preinstalled linux (big IF) I would guess they would go with one of the more "user-friendly" distros ie Ubu or SuSE. Anyone who would use something else probably knows enough to install it themselves. Or maybe they could bundle a CD/DVD of your distro of choice? Its just sad that a company has to be on the verge of bankruptcy to start looking at alternatives to lock-in software, or the revolutionary concept of actually LISTENING TO YOUR CUSTOMERS!! What a thought!

Mythtv box?

How awesome would it be if Dell began manufacturing a media center box with MythTV installed? Maybe KnoppMyth? Who knows, maybe Dell would consider tweaking some code to make MythTV user friendly for newbies....

Sure but

Sure but does it run Linux? ............ oh.

Who killed the electric car.

Could soon be who killed mainstream linux. I know alot of people at my school who would take linux on there laptops and such. Going through engineering you realize as long as you can run the internet and run word documents you can usually find something more powerful to run anything else you need to.

Alienation of Linux users

The original article said: "We don't want to pick one distribution and alienate users with a preference for another."

I appreciate that thinking, so if they choose Novell SuSE LInux I think they'd alienate almost all Linux users.

Haven't they been doing this for a while now?

I bought a Dell workstation about a 1.5 years ago with RedHat WS pre-installed.

This can only be a great thing for drivers !

I've got an HP laptop that has an Nvidia video card, a Winmodem and an ENE memory card driver. None of these devices have proper drivers in Linux. If Dell starts selling laptops or even PCs preloaded with Linux, presumably they are going to have a "normal" linux driver for every peripheral device. That can only mean that companies like ENE would have to start providing kernel developers with documentation to write a kernel driver for their device.

You can't keep a good thing down forever. The masses obviously want Linux on PCs and laptops and it will only be a matter of time before a customer responsive company (Dell or otherwise) answers the call. The fact that Dell advertised for ideas and got such an overwhelming response requesting Linux means it something that can no longer be ignored.

Retail price savings?

So, does this mean that the end user will now save a few bucks since they don't have to pay for a Windows license?

No major news here.

If you read the press release, the wording is quite plain and out in the open. They aren't going to, nor are they planning, on offering any systems with any distro of Linux preinstalled. All they're offering is to get more systems 'certified' with primarily Dell's distros of choice (RHEL and Novell,) and then possibly more distros as well. Of course, these systems will most likely also be moved off into the 'n' series line - which will probably cause it to be a failure. If they -really- want to impress me, they need to not only throw the Inspiron line in there (there are already 'n' series Dimensions,) but offer the No OS option, /or/ a Linux Distro option (even if they don't install it, and just ship media with it,) right there on the regular purchase page. If they don't, it's little more than a token gesture to try to make the minority happy. (But on an unrelated note - it's good to see Michael stepping back up and taking charge of things. Dell plumetted even downhill than it usually is when he wasn't leading things.)

Windows users should be hoping this flies

Let's hope the Dell Linux business takes off, big time. Thousands of units shipped... a double digit percentage of their business...all with Open Office... all working nicely...

Finally, a kick in the gut for Microsoft's Vista and Office 2007 prices.

Certification != Pre-Install

Certification is a *very* low bar for Dell to achieve. In general it means that the system can be installed, and the graphical user interface can come up, that is it.

The cost for an OEM to pre-install and support Linux properly is currently far higher that Windows. This is because of the variance in distributions and the general maturity of Linux from support perspective. And of course Dell is all about support (well, more correctly, Dell's business model is logistics, and each support contact costs eats into their profit and loss for the system.

In most cases, they don't even contact the IHV to ensure that the drivers for that hardware will work. Even without a preload,ensuring that a level of driver support is available would be a huge boon.

Muwahahaha

Now I can order Linux, and install windows 98 to stick it to the man.

one small step...

This is one small step for Dell, and one giant leap for the open source movement.

$50 says Microsoft will try and sue dell when they "support" linux (tech support) without buying "vouchers" from the MS/Novell deal.

Where's Microsoft in this?

It really makes you wonder. First, Novell makes a shady deal with Microsoft, and now Dell is in talks with Novell to offer Linux or their computers. Personally, I would keep a close watch on Microsoft's reaction to this, as they may have some stake in it. Not to be a cynic, but the whole series of events seems to be unfolding rather unusually.

Dell BIOS

I bought a Dell E521 in October. Installed Ubuntu on it (dual boot). After about five minutes, the mouse would stop working (the E521 uses a USB only mouse). You could re-plug the mouse USB connector and it would start working again - for about five minutes. Tried all sorts of things including a complete re-install. No dice. Checked the Dell and Ubuntu news groups. I was not the only person experiencing this problem and it occurred with several other distributions. Several people had contacted Dell - which provided no help (other than to say they don't support Linux). Several had returned their machines.

In January, Dell released a new firmware upgrade. The upgrade notes made no mention of the Linux problem but after I re-flashed the firmware, the problem disappeared. So, if Dell starts testing their hardware and BIOS with various Linux distros - that will be a very good thing.

HP is already there, Dell is ancient history

Dell has too many empty promises and component lock-in (eg, no AMD offerings until recently (especially after that big Opteron blitz has past) no real linux boxes even though there were previous accounements, etc). And then the CEO admitting they were using the cheapest hardware they could find to cut costs. Sorry guys, too inconsistent on multiple levels and takes too long to "build" systems. I've seen companies cancel Dell orders and buy other brands just to get stuff sooner. Build to order is great (and others can do it for you too, HP for one) but it takes too long for the little benefit, IMHO.

HP already has multiple desktop and laptop systems certified for Novell SUSE Linux Enterprise products. Their workstation-class machines are RedHat certified.

Dell is for home users...

-m

Windows Tax Passed on...

According to http://buranen.info/?p=77/> it looks like Dell is actually passing on the cost of windows to people buying the *nix laptop.

First things first, lets take the new n-series D420 and lets compare that with a windows-loaded D420. Enter doubt. Upon first opening these systems, we see that the n-series is $1252 and the windows-loaded laptop comes in at $1199. Dell's computer with no operating system is $53 more expensive than one loaded with Vista!

...and monkeys flew out of my butt!

If you think for a second that Dell is going to give up lucrative revenue from selling less software, give your head a shake!! Notice that the proposed option will only be available on higher-end (for Dell) hardware. You are not going to see a rock-bottom box with Linux on it. John Q. Public would kill Dell's margins with all the support calls.

Ideastorm = slashdotted already?

And as long as I am here I will bump my suggestion on Ideastorm: Make a laptop power supply that doesn't suck. I doubt they will dump the bloatware cash to further the linux cause.

The general public...

Whether or not Dell succeeds with this (assuming they try) depends mostly on the cost, rather than the functionality. Most of the general public that buys personal computers is only interested in web browsing and e-mail, i work for a PC retailer and i've heard many claim as much. When someone looks at a PC and decides if they want it, the first thing they ask isn't will it work, they take that as a given, the real question is "how much?". If Dell can retail a desktop running Linux for the same price or less than what the equivalent windows machine goes for, then Micro$oft will lose market share. Naturally, MS isn't going to stand for that, they have their monopoly and they like it. If Dell starts to give away some of the market to linux (and it would literally be GIVING it away, if you compare OS cost difference) then i would predict with absolute certainty that MS would put alot of pressure on Dell to ruin it somehow. We've all heard the stories of Microsofts business practices, use your imagination.

Irrelevant

Personally it doesn't matter to me what Dells ship with anymore. I have a Dell laptop, I'm quite unsatisfied with it. I certainly won't be buying another one.

Dell: Delete Windows, pay $48 more.

Try configuring a Dell D520 with Windows [dell.com] and a Dell 520 without Windows. [dell.com] Select the same hardware options on both. (Note that the default for the non-Windows machine is a 40GB hard drive and a CD drive only, but the default for the Windows machine is a 60GB hard drive and a DVD drive. Adjust options to match.)

With Microsoft: $699. Without Microsoft: $747.

And Dell won't even install Linux. They give you FreeDOS.

Not preinstalled

From to TFA:

"Your feedback has been all about flexibility and we have seen a consistent request to provide platforms that allow people to install their operating system of choice. We are listening, and as a result, we are working with Novell to certify our corporate client products for Linux,..."

They have no intention of preinstalling, which is what people are asking for. They are going to certify their PCs with some distros. That's a very different proposition.

Whee

I'd rather Dell got their shit together in the customer service department and worry about linux afterwards. I can install linux myself (and as others have pointed out, it's not like you get a better deal by telling Dell to hold the Windows)--I can't make Mandeep--Dell's latest clueless support monkey--escalate my issues to a higher tier of support rather than recycle the same cut & paste I've seen from everyone else at tier 1.

Ethical Laptop buying in the UK

I just bought an OS free laptop in the UK from Transtec [transtec.co.uk]. I could have had it with SuSE pre-installed for a bit extra. The default hardware spec is different for the OS free machines, but if you configure them to be the same as the Windows ones then they are cheaper (i.e. there is no negative Windows cost as others have reported). Although Transtec mostly supply business customers, they will sell to individuals. I am happy with the machine and it is now running Gentoo just fine.

There are very few UK companies who will see you a Linux or OS free laptop. One of the others told me that they get theirs from Lenovo, but can only occasionally get one without an OS. In other cases they remove Windows and try to claim back the cost from their wholesaler. Occasionally, this works. So, in most cases money is still going to Microsoft. I don't like this idea, so I was pleased when Transtec told me that their OS free machines have never had any OS installed and so none of my money would go to Redmond. This might be a point worth checking if you are looking for a linux laptop.

I think

That if regular windows desktop users are going to adopt linux, that they should have dual-options. Every regular desktop system should come with an option to have only Windows, dual-boot Windows(what they were going to get anyways)-Linux(at no extra cost), or just Linux. Perhaps they could show a few screenshots of Linux running XGL, firefox, games, etc. Most users would go "ooh Linux, I've heard about that, neat". They would have no reason not to have linux... except maybe the use of a few extra gigabytes. Or perhaps they should ship a Linux DVD somewhere in the assortment of shit software discs you get. Best of both worlds.

Beware: Remember WordPerfect on the Amiga!

Users often promise more interest than they are willing to back up with their pocketbooks.

When WordPerfect premiered on the Amiga, Amiga owners responded by buying many more copies than the folks at WordPerfect had anticipated. They then polled Amiga owners to find out what else they wanted, and those polled responded enthusiastically that they wanted (another WordPerfect product that I can't remember). Well, that product was subsequently released and tanked financially. They sold zilch, lost confidence in the Amiga market, and consequently released no more Amiga products. They even stopped updating WordPerfect itself. Not only that, but many other big software companies pointed to this failure as a prime example of why they weren't going into the Amiga market at all.

So if you tell Dell you want to buy Linux computers from them, make sure you DO buy Linux computers from them when they're introduced. If these fail in the marketplace, you can make book on the fact that not only will Dell drop the whole idea of selling Linux computers, but every other major player will, too.

Linux on Dells -- The "right" way

If Dell wants this to work and work *right* they'll probably need to come up with their own distro of Linux for support of their systems. This would be much the same as Apple/OS X, in that the software would be under tight control of the OEM. Heck, Dell might end up with a better image, to boot. It's the only way they can guarantee that binary drivers work with kernel updates, and all OEM hardware is officially supported version to version, and that they maintain a level of seamlessness currently unavailable in the Linux (and for that matter, Windows) realm. Heck, they could even TPM it if they wanted (so long as the source code for GPL'd stuff was still public, but what's the point?) If they wanted to go the Red Hat or Novell (or some other VAR) route, the VAR would be required to include support and guarantee a certain level of functionality and performance before releasing the next version, which means slowing down your release schedule and having less than satisfied customers. End users might not like not having access to the "latest and greatest" kernel, KDE, or X11 release, but it's the only way an OEM can properly ensure that they don't start losing money hand over fist on supporting Linux customers that just don't have the experience, but want to try something non-Windows.

If they do it "the right way," I certainly support them in their endeavor. Alas, I fear it'll end up a failed attempt and half-assed effort.

Dell with pre- loaded Linux

IBM Clones are designed to run Windows as far as I can tell. When a company manufactures them, they have to Pre-load Microsoft Apps because Microsoft is the software vender for IBM PC OS since the first Ms-Dos. As Dell says, "...if you decline the EULA of any pre-loaded software, you can uninstall it" and take it from there. In my view, It would likely cost Dell more than their profit margins would allow to BUY Microsoft out of what they have been contracted to provide. Also, non-disclosure agreements probably have hog tied a number of innovative concepts before they ever got on the proprietary software driven hardware platform we have come to know as pc clones.

Sell us a certified box for less than with MS

I trust therefore that Dell will sell me a Linux certified Laptop or desktop at a price less than the same machine with windows preinstalled.

But I know what they will do. They will make sure that the certified machines do not have the same set of hardware components as any of their windows boxes. Then they will charge you the same or more than the nearest equivalent windows box. Why because that way they will not be providing a strong direct competition for windows. Not only will Monkey boy not be throwing chairs at them, they will still get all the marketing rebates and OEM discounts that MS throws their way at present.

Dell is too lame to do anything with Linux

Dell is far too lame to do anything with Linux. They tease the user community a number of time with potentially doing something with Linux. And when they did last time is was a cluster to say the least! Their idea storm site overwhelming suggests that Dell really could distinguish itself if they approached Linux actually picked a Linux distribution and ran with it. So the site they put up demonstrates that their users would overwhelming love them to offer Linux and really support it and contribute to Linux.. what do they do with all that information announce that they are trying to get their boxes certified with Linux as servers and that is it. They just do not listen. They are completely arrogant! Inept with no capacity what so ever to decipher or disseminate information that is right in front of their noses. They really never will support anything that is Linux unless it sells a server and even then they will certify say a Suse or Ubuntu and leave it at that the user will be on their own. Their storm site fundamentally comes up with a direction for them. 1.Pick a distribution and sticking to it! 2.Demonstrate support of the end users by delivering a great customer experience. 3.Have a dedicated team that delivers solutions to the customers i.e. precompiled easy to install applications/games etc for the users to just install easily with out having to be a guru.. i.e. point and shoot. 4.Step up use their weight with their vendors and software suppliers and get them to port their applications and drivers to Linux But they will never do any of it until Microsoft removes the choke hold from them and they grow a spine! If you really want desktops or servers in my opinion the only vendor out there that really does support their customers is Sun Microsystems but they really are not geared to deal with anyone other than Businesses. Dell sucks over and above that the quality of their portables and desktops especially at the low end really is abysmal! Cheap and nasty boxes.

Re:idiot slashdot readers

more editors than readers. I don't understand how that statement could possibly be interpreted to suggest that Dell's going to start shipping preinstalled Linux OSs, it says nothing of the sort. It looks to me more that they're trying placate everyone by saying they're doing everything they can, as opposed to actually responding to consumer requests. In other words, this headline is blatantly false.

Re:Business software

I ran a business with Linux. It worked great. I think what you mean to say is: lets get businesses away from thinking they need a certain brand of accounting software. I had the stuff that is supposed to make the world go round, and later found out that there was a lot of shaky ground in continuing dependence on it. Soon I had made my own using other Linux ready "business software" that did not involve programming and it worked great. If my accountant demanded I use that "branded software" I simply said I would go elsewhere, because that meant they were simply making me do all the work anyways.

There are free and pay linux accounting packages BTW. And just what would this other business software be?

Re:Business software

To reply to your missive, I'm currently using gnucash [gnucash.org] to run my small business, connecting to my CentOS [centos.org] server using OpenSuSE 10.2 [opensuse.org] on a WiFi enabled T30 IBM Thinkpad. If I want something commercial, I can always use an ORACLE [oracle.com] or IBM [ibm.com]-based (for example) product which is completely cross-platform. To be honest, it has taken until just recently for Linux [linux.org] to mature to the point where there is little difference between it and the commercial products. To boot, the improvements in Linux are coming at such a rapid rate that I am quite confident in my decision.

Therefore, take your time, revisit your decision and, in the end, you'll end up with a lot lower software and maintenance costs, running on older equipment with only a few viruses and malware knocking at your door.

Re:Mod Down

No, because this is a flaw in slashdot moderation system : first posts are read by more people and so get more moderation points. it is very hard to get modded +5 while on the bottom of the page.

I agree this makes for a lot of non-sequitur in response to first posts but this is people using a flaw in the system, don't blame them.

Re:Idiotic Move

I'd take a Fedora or RedHat installed dell latitude if I could order it. Though, now I realize, you are most likely just trolling.

The fact that there Dell only sells XP installed laptops is the only reason I wouldn't buy from them directly. Their latitude D620 and their desktop core 2 duo boxes all work well with OpenSuse, even the rotatable LCD panels work. If Dell goes this direction they might gain traction with the portion of the computer industry that isn't keen on being locked into a Microsoft solution, this segment does exist, they end up going to a third party that redoes the install, or do it themselves currently.

They have a serious problem with complex tiering on their website incidentally, whatever happened to making things easy to purchase and compare. The Linux options for home and small business up to medium sized business laptops were nonexistent, all Vista. Wasn't someone saying a latitude could be purchased with Linux? I jumped at the chance to grab one, and it was not there. Guess they plan on doing this in the future.

Re:Idiotic Move

Anyone who wants to use Linux is most likely not going to purchase a Dell (odds are they build their own).

Wrong. I would purchase a Linux supported computer from a vendor.

If they did, they would most likely want to install the OS themselves.

If it already came with the distribution I was intending to use, I don't see why I would.

Any poor soul that purchases a Dell with Linux on it, will most likely do it thinking they are getting a some kind of deal.

You'd probably be paying more, since your purchase isn't subsidized by all the crapware being pre-installed.

They will get the PC and be very confused which in the end will cause a huge technical support headache for Dell and result in nothing but a pissed off customer because technical support doesn't know what Linux is.

I doubt Dell's tech support won't know what Linux is while they're selling preinstalled Linux systems.

In the end the customer has a computer they can barely use cause they can't figure out Linux.

No idea what rubbish you're spilling now. If older people and children who are mostly computer illiterate can use Linux, I don't see why Dell customers can't.

Be honest. How many of you Linux users would actually purchase a Dell?

I might since I can't buy System 76 [system76.com] in Europe.

How many of you would purchase a Dell with a pre-installed Distro of Linux?

I would.

It is my opinion that you make far too many assumptions on stereotypes.

I would

Simple because everything would be there installed and working (drivers mostly). I would have THEM to mess around with xorg.conf, have the correct ACPI support, sound and wireless working. I can sure do it. But if they do it, well the better. In fact that's what they do with windows.