Pre-Installed Linux Tops Dell Customer Requests

dhart writes "Within only a few days of Dell opening a new customer feedback website, they discovered that the feature most requested (by an almost 2-to-1 margin!) is an option on all new Dell PCs: pre-installed Linux. (And the number 3 request is pre-installed Open Office.) I believe they'll have a harder time now with the tired old mantra 'There's no customer demand for Linux.'"

Their system configurator

[suso]

That's cool. But one thing that has always annoyed me about their server configuration utility is that you can select "no operating system, Linux configuration", but there are some hardware options that don't work with that option and so you have to select the microsoft config. So much for getting some extra counts for
the Linux side

Re:Their system configurator

[taursir]

It's probably just a money-making or liability ploy. Although, you'd assume that if you're selecting that configuration, you know what you're doing, and they don't have to deal with people going, "OMG, IT WONT START".

Re:Their system configurator

[bhtooefr]

Maybe because of hardware that isn't compatible with Linux?

Re:Their system configurator

[jlarocco]

Maybe because of hardware that isn't compatible with Linux?

I'm not seeing your point. Incompatible hardware is only a problem if you have an existing computer, and you want to run a different OS on it. If you're building the machine, as Dell is, it doesn't make any sense to purposely choose hardware that's incompatible with the OS most people (buying these machines) want to use.

It could be an honest mistake, but they're probably just being asshats.

Re:

[Morlark]

Which means there there are people out there who may not want their hardware requirements dictated by an OS they're not even going to install.

Erm, I haven't really used the Dell system configurator whatchamajingle very much, but just from reading this the gist of the OP seems to be that Dell are unnecessarily limiting your hardware options if you choose the no OS option. i.e. We want Dell to be reducing the limitations, not adding them as you seem to be implying. Yes, you're right that there are probably

Re:Their system configurator

[jlarocco]

So you're saying that Dell should only be allowed to ship their servers with 100% Linux compatible parts? Presumably you're one of the people who also complained when they were a 100% Microsoft lock-in.

I didn't say that at all, and I think most people got my point. If they're selling a machine to be used with Linux, then logic would imply that those machines should actually work with Linux.

You said it yourself in the comment: "the OS most people want to use" (emphasis mine). I note you specifically didn't say all people. Which means there there are people out there who may not want their hardware requirements dictated by an OS they're not even going to install.

Slow down, and read what I said. The whole thing, with the parentheses. I explicitly pointed out that the people buying *these* machines, specifically the "No OS, Linux" machines, want the machines to run Linux. I wasn't refering to Dell machines in general. If Dell is selling the machine without an OS, specifically so that people can put Linux on it, then yes, I think Dell should make at least a little effort to make sure it comes with Linux compatible hardware. Otherwise, what's the point?

Re:

[AeroIllini]

If Dell is selling the machine without an OS, specifically so that people can put Linux on it, then yes, I think Dell should make at least a little effort to make sure it comes with Linux compatible hardware. Otherwise, what's the point?

I think the GP's point was that the demand is for the Linux option to be available on any machine Dell sells, which means that Dell would have to choose all their hardware to be Linux-compatible; kind of a lowest-common-denominator approach.

However, that being said, Dell is

Re:Their system configurator

[Anonymous Coward]

"no operating system, Linux configuration"

is'nt that because the operating system is actually emacs?

Re:Their system configurator

[HAKdragon]

emacs is and excellent OS, it just needs a good text editor.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Their system configurator

[rklrkl]

Funny, whenever my company orders Dell Poweredge servers with the no OS option, that's all I have do (how you can have a "Linux configuration" when there's no OS shipped with it?). Slap on CentOS 4.4 and you have an enterprise level OS (a clone of RHEL 4) for no extra cost. And, yes, the Poweredge hardware is fully supported by the enterprise Linux distros in case you're wondering.

A quick check shows that the "No OS, RHEL $0" and "No OS, Windows $0" options are only on the US www.dell.com site. If you go via the UK www.dell.co.uk site you far more sensibly just get a single "Not included [included in price]" no-cost/no-OS option.

Re:The Indian tech support is worse.

[geekboybt]

Not to feed the trolls, but here goes anyways... Have you actually called their support? Or, a better question - are these actual servers (PowerEdge) or desktops standing in as servers? I've called them many times, for servers that only cost $1k to ones over $6k. Every time I've gotten an American English speaking rep from Texas. Yes, even on Christmas morning and the machine's technically out of warranty. Cheap desktops get you cheap support. Real servers get you real support. You get what you pay for.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm in the UK. Maybe that's why I don't get the American-based tech support when I call. And yes, the systems are servers. The newer ones are PowerEdge 1900 systems.

I really don't care where the people are who are offering me tech support. At the very least I expect them to speak understandable English.

Re:The Indian tech support is worse.

[bhiestand]

I'm in the UK.

Every time I've gotten an American English speaking rep from Texas.

At the very least I expect them to speak understandable English.

I think I see the confusion you two are having. You see, you're asking for someone to speak English that you can understand, and you're a Brit. The GP is an American, and has no problem understanding American Texan English.

It is quite likely that you actually are being connected to their call center in Texas. Next time you call, ask to be transfered to somebody in India. It will be a lot easier for you to understand, especially if you ask the rep to drop his fake American accent.

Re:The Indian tech support is worse.

[Zaiff Urgulbunger]

There's a dude in India who's probably really pissed because every time he calls Dell for support on his server, he gets someone from Texas!

Re:The Indian tech support is worse.

[moranar]

He should just post his gripes in broken English to Slashdot, like everyone else does. Sheesh.

Re:

[EsbenMoseHansen]

Or better to buy Sun machine with Solaris, that is THE server

From my experience with Solaris, I assume that you mean he is going to love his Dells after trying Solaris :p

Great Story:

[encoderer]

On a late night public radio call-in show (put out by American Public Media), they had a story about the overseas call centers. It was a great story. They played clips of the training classes where they teach these indians to lie about what they did on the 4th of july or what they ate for Thanksgiving. It was sickening.

But then they interview this "industry representitive" who basically said what we all have been: The American people are not satisfied with the level of service they get from Indian call centers, and that many companies are closing them.

I momentarily though "wow, thank god, that's a trend that can't be over too soon."

Then he pulls out the punchline: Many of the closed Indian operations are being moved to the Phillipines, because people have less of a negative impression when the phillipino accent is played back to them.

I swear to god it's like the RIAA is running the call center industry.

I was SCREAMING at the radio that the only reason Filipino accents don't score as badly as Indian accents are that Americans haven't called tech support yet and had to deal with under-trained Filipinos nearly as much as they've had to deal with under-trained Indians.

So yes, that's their bright idea. So if Dell does accept the "Close your indian call centers" suggest, don't expect much of an improvement. Maybe we should be a little more specific and suggest that they move their call centers only to NATO countries, and preferably the US, Canada or the UK.

Re:Great Story:

[koreaman]

Do you know any Filipinos, and more importantly, do you speak English with them on a regular basis?

I know a teenage Filipina girl. Although she does have a noticable accent, her English is impeccable and easily understood. She's not a special case, this is normal for Filipinos. The Phillippines exhibit a situation of diglossia in which English is used for educational and government as well as other formal purposes. What this means is that everything from government proceedings to television reporting is conducted in the English language. In addition, English is the only language spoken in many schools, and textbooks are exclusively written in the language. According to the Filipina I know, any use of her local language in her school incurs a fine.

Thus, Filipinos, especially educated ones, can be expected to have a good command of English. This, coupled with the fact that their accent is quite easily understandable, would make them, on average and from a linguistic point of view, much better technical support representatives than their Indian counterparts.

Mod parent... Well, *you* decide...

[KingSkippus]

I won't tell you how to mod the parent, but I can throw my 2 cent's worth of experience in.

It is 100% true that English isn't a second language in the Philippines, it's a primary language. I work in a 24x7 datacenter, and a year or so ago, a new support center was opened in the Philippines to handle our night shift. I thought they were going to let a bunch of people go, but it turned out, they were expanding our operations, not replacing them. (Thank goodness!)

I was very skeptical that this would work. I had many of the same fears. Would we be able to understand their accent? Would they be undertrained an incompetent? Would there be any culture clashes?

The answers, to my surprise, were: They have no discernible accent—none. They're very smart and easily keep up with our local folks, and have often gone far above and beyond the call of duty to help us out. And yes, they are very familiar with our culture and ways of doing things. In fact, a nice bonus about the Filipino support center is that a lot of our night shift calls were coming from Asia-Pacific countries (since, duh, they were open at that time of night), and a lot of those clients feel much more comfortable dealing with our Filipino support center than our American night shift folks.

By now, you're probably thinking, "Right, you're just a management goober," but I assure you, I'm not. In fact, I was certain that I was going to lose my job due to Filipino outsourcing, but that never happened, since we weren't really outsourcing. And after working with them for a while at our shift turnover and seeing the quality of the work they did for us, I can honestly say that hiring our Filipino friends has turned out to be one of the few times management actually did something right at my company, and it's been a win-win situation for everyone.

I'm not saying that every Filipino person is smart and capable and a perfect joy to work with. Just like dealing with all people, your mileage may vary. But I can say that anyone who thinks that good customer service can't be provided by support centers in the Philippines is either stupid or doesn't know enough Filipino people, if any at all.

Re:Mod parent... Well, *you* decide...

[styrotech]

They have no discernible accent--none.

Well that maybe the case for an American listener. All the Filipinos I've met (only a handful to be honest) sounded to me like they had American accents :)

But just to agree with you, all of them had very good spoken english (if a little quiet).

Re:

[scruffyMark]

All the Filipinos I've met (only a handful to be honest) sounded to me like they had American accents :)

But just to agree with you, all of them had very good spoken english (if a little quiet).

Funny, I'd say speaking quietly is not exactly characteristic of an American accent.

Re:

[a.d.trick]

It is 100% true that English isn't a second language in the Philippines, it's a primary language.

Well, generally the people who get hired for those kinds of jobs tend to have really good English, but I wouldn't say it's the primary language in the country. In Manila, most people can speak some level of English, but Tagalog definitely the primary language. Outside of the capital, English proficiency is much rarer, usually Tagalog or a local language is used (there's around 100 different languages spread acr

Re:Great Story:

[mwvdlee]

I know a teenage Filipina girl.

Are you sure about that?

Re:Great Story:

[ElDavido]

and they're STILL not going to understand common pop-culture references
Do you call tech support lines to chat about American Idol or something? When I call, I want technical answers. So long as I can understand the other person, I don't care where they are or what cultural customs they follow.

(Yes, I understand that the Phillipines are an American protectorate so they could all be considered somewhat 'american' but you know what I meant)
The Philippines are not an American protectorate. The Philippines have been a completely sovereign nation since 1946. They were ceded from the Spanish to the United States in the Spanish-American War in 1898. That relationship lasted until WWII, when the Japanese took the islands. After WWII, the Philippines became a fully independent nation. The United States had military bases there until the early 1990s.

Re:Consequences of Linux Demand

[bckrispi]

It should convince dial-up ISPs like AOL to release a Linux client.

AOL subscriber who runs linux? +1500 Funny!

Demographics

[Wordplay]

Strangely, the #2 option was pre-installed pictures of Natalie Portman.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

If they are running windows, that will happen soon enough.

Re:Demographics

[networkBoy]

How 'bout a petrified statue of Natalie Portman shaving Brittney Spears in soviet russia while standing on a beowulf cluster of old koreans?

(did I miss anything? ... oh yeah! not sure where the hot grits go...)
-nB

Of course you did you inconsiderate clod!

[techno-vampire]

did I miss anything?

Yes: ponies! Lots and lots of pink ponies!

OMG!!! PONIES!

Re:

[HateBreeder]

2. ???
3. Profit!

Re:

[db32]

There is a car analogy waiting to happen here...

curious

[gravesb]

I'm all for choice, and I think its pretty stupid of Dell not to have offered this before. However, I wonder how many unique requests there are, and how many people asked for that a 1000 times or so. I use Linux at home, but it sure isn't on a Dell box; I built my own, as I guess a lot of Linux hobbists do. But if this gets Dell to implement that option, then great. More Linux penetration is good. Of course, people have to follow up on it; if they offer it and no one buys it, it just gives them and other retailers a reason not to offer it and will make it harder in the future to get pre-made Linux boxes from the major sellers.

Re:

[truthsearch]

I think its pretty stupid of Dell not to have offered this before.

At least until 2001 Microsoft threatened to completely revoke their OEM licenses if Dell offered any other OS. Microsoft was forced to lighten up just a little bit in their conduct after the anti-trust trial.

Re:curious

[smilindog2000]

I found an interesting Dell/Linux bit of hype. Dell pushed their new $400 Dimension e521 as a good Linux machine last fall, but it turned out that it wouldn't actually run Linux, due to BIOS bugs on Dell's system. I expected the community to report the bug, and move onto the next machine... wrong. There were at least hundreds of angry linux users out there making a stink... and then the unthinkable happened... Dell listened to the Linux community feedback and FIXED their BIOS! I bought one as soon as I read that. It makes a great Linux box, at least if you run Ubuntu Feisty :-)

Linux flavors A, B, C, D, E, F, G, etc.

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

I believe they'll have a harder time now with the tired old mantra 'There's no customer demand for Linux.'"

It's not so much that there isn't customer demand for LINUX, it's that there isn't a whole lot of customer demand for individual Linux flavors A, B, C, D, E, F, G, etc. It's too much of a PITA to worry about qualifying all that different hardware with all the different distros and then worrying about dealing with Red Hat, Novell and all the different suppliers of what's basically a free OS.

Now, if they had a service like "I'll send you the Linux distro I want, please preinstall it on the next 500 computers you ship me," that could be big.

Re:

[SydShamino]

The request specifically says to offer just the top three free Linux distributions. Such a limitation is probably reasonable; if you know enough to not want one of the three most common versions, you can probably install your own.

On the other hand, inserting a customer-provided distribution into a limited run would be a nightmare for a company such as Dell; they'd have to maintain that particular flavor for a very small number of potential sales.

Re:Linux flavors A, B, C, D, E, F, G, etc.

[Chris Burke]

Oh, that's not the problem. They could easily just pick one distro and only offer it. The problem is that even that one distro involves spending money on qualification, help desk, and so on. Plus then you are pissing of Microsoft, and who knows what kinds of "cooperative marketing" dollars Dell gets from them.

It's pretty much the same thing as with AMD processors. For the longest time the official line was "There's no customer demand for AMD." Well, obviously there's demand, which is why they are bringing it up in the first place. What they really mean is "There's customer demand, but not enough for it to be worth the cost of supporting more than one platform, plus the loss from making our current single-platform vendor unhappy."

Basically, just like with selling AMD-based systems, there's no way in hell Dell is going to sell pre-installed supported Linux until the financial incentive to do so is simply undeniable. And even then, they will at first just use the threat of doing so as a lever to get more concessions from Microsoft. If history holds true, expect Dell to be the last major OEM not shipping Linux.

Winds of Change.

[twitter]

... expect Dell to be the last major OEM not shipping Linux.

You think? I'm not sure anymore. Just a few weeks ago Michael Dell stood up with Vint Cerf and admitted 1 in 4 M$ computers is part of a botnet. Now his company is publicizing customer demand for Linux. If he was interested in toeing the M$ party line, he would have suppressed the results. The odds are Dell is moving away from being a M$ vassal.

2007 is the year of Linux. Vista sucks, is not selling and the revolt is on. It's about time!

Re:Winds of Change.

[drsmithy]

2007 is the year of Linux. Vista sucks, is not selling and the revolt is on. It's about time!

1996 is the year of Linux. 95 sucks, is not selling and the revolt is on. It's about time!
1997 is the year of Linux. 95 sucks, is not selling and the revolt is on. It's about time!
1998 is the year of Linux. 98 sucks, is not selling and the revolt is on. It's about time!
1999 is the year of Linux. 2000 sucks, is not selling and the revolt is on. It's about time!
2000 is the year of Linux. 2000 sucks, is not selling and the revolt is on. It's about time!
2001 is the year of Linux. XP sucks, is not selling and the revolt is on. It's about time!
2002 is the year of Linux. XP sucks, is not selling and the revolt is on. It's about time!
2003 is the year of Linux. XP sucks, is not selling and the revolt is on. It's about time!
2004 is the year of Linux. XP sucks, is not selling and the revolt is on. It's about time!
2005 is the year of Linux. XP sucks, is not selling and the revolt is on. It's about time!
2006 is the year of Linux. XP sucks, is not selling and the revolt is on. It's about time!

Re:Winds of Change.

[Stamen]

2007 is the year of Linux. Vista sucks, is not selling and the revolt is on. It's about time!

But seriously, Viska sucks so hard Hoover Inc. sued for patent infringement.

Re:Winds of Change.

[kernelfoobar]

The day Microsoft makes a product that doesn't suck, is the day they start making vacuum cleaners...

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Dell does do exactly that. It's called CFI, Custom Factory Integration. They do this for hundreds of enterprise customers, where they deploy the customers OS, corporate or other image to the machines at the factory.

Re:

[zx-15]

I doubt that number of linux distros would make much difference. Any popular distro is based on the same kernel, and the only real problem is to get all the hardware working, especially wireless card. Then Dell would have master image for distro A B C D.... and just select the one customer requested, just like the choice between windows 2000 and winxp some time ago. Technically it's not a big of a deal, plus there doesn't have to be numerous distros just the most popular ones ubuntu, fedora, suse that's thr

Are you a Dell call center employee? ;)

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

...the question weather preload linux in not technical, but purely...

C'mon, admit it. You're writing this from a Dell call center in India right now.

Re:Linux flavors A, B, C, D, E, F, G, etc.

[nmos]

It's too much of a PITA to worry about qualifying all that different hardware with all the different distros....

I can't speak for anyone else but if I were buying a computer with Linux pre-installed it would just be as a sort of guarantee that there are Linux drivers available for the hardware. For that purpose it really doesn't matter what distro they choose.

Re:

[thue]

While it would certainly be better than nothing, it wouldn't necessarily be much of a guarantee. I wouldn't be surprised if they shipped closed sourced drivers which only worked with the specific interface version of the Linux kernel which shipped with the preinstalled Linux OS. Or for example a printer could work with lpr via a closed source driver, but not with CUPS.

For it to really be a guarantee, the hardware has to have open source drivers and specifications available.

Re:

[Bill Dimm]

if I were buying a computer with Linux pre-installed it would just be as a sort of guarantee that there are Linux drivers available for the hardware

Exactly. I recently bought a workstation with Linux pre-installed, and told the vendor to put it on a very small partition and leave the rest of the disk blank. I did my own partitioning and install on the rest of the disk, and just used their install to verify that things worked before I started messing around.

Re:Linux flavors A, B, C, D, E, F, G, etc.

[Anonymous Coward]

Disclaimer: I work for Dell.

Believe me. If you order 500 computers, you can get any commercially available OS for a PC installed. It's called CFI or custom factory integration. Ask your salesperson about it.

The catch is that Dell will not support the OS unless it is one that is offered by Dell. Only the hardware is supported.

The difficulty is being able to support every distro of Linux. It's impossible. I say that one is picked, say Ubuntu and support that with proper drivers and support.

Re:Linux flavors A, B, C, D, E, F, G, etc.

[MoxFulder]

Seems perfectly reasonable to me! I'd be happy enough if Dell would simply support the hardware without charging me for a Windows license, which is basically the current situation if you order a Dell box and put Linux on it.

It would be *really* nice if Dell would do some basic work to document device-driver compatibility for their systems. So if I was configuring a Linux system online, I'd like to see something like:

Information in bold shows the availability of Linux device drivers for the selected components, based on Linux kernel version 2.6.19, x.org version 1.2.3.4, and CUPS version 5.6.7.8.

Video Card:

• NVidia GeForce Yadda Yadda (open-source driver for 2D graphics, closed-source vendor-provided driver for 3D graphics)
  
• Intel Extreme Graphics Foobar (open-source vendor-assisted driver for 2D and 3D graphics)
  

Wireless Networking:

• RaLink 802.11a/b/g card (open-source vendor-assisted driver)
  
• Intel Centrino foobar (closed-source vendor-provided driver)
  
• Broadcom Whatzit (no native Linux drivers, may work with ndiswrapper)
  

If Dell could do something like this, I'd give them *huge* props... and I imagine a lot of other Linux folks would to. I'd gladly order my next box or ten from them. It wouldn't even be that hard... I would guess that one guy working, say, 10 hours a week on this could easily document driver availability for all the hardware Dell sells with its desktop systems.

Re:

[Chandon Seldon]

Canotical provides Ubuntu support on clients and servers. If you want some ridiculous cluster thing, that requires a differently structured OS anyway. I'm not seeing what the problem would be with Ubuntu on Dell - the lack of a license fee would save a noticeable amount of money.

Re:Linux flavors A, B, C, D, E, F, G, etc.

[Chapter80]

Hmm... I've ordered quantities of Dell computers, and supplied the disk image. Never 500. More like 350 (in groups of 50 at a time), and their integration center pre-loads the image that we supplied.

It happened to be a Windows image, but my impression is that they would have installed any image that we requested, including Linux.

lolz

[abscissa]

Just reading through those suggestions, ... I can promise you that 95% are not going to ever happen.

e.g. no preinstalled earthlink? You think they do that out of kindness to earthlink, or maybe earthlink pays for it?

Requests != demand

[StikyPad]

I believe they'll have a harder time now with the tired old mantra 'There's no customer demand for Linux.'"

Assuming, of course, that this wasn't a campaign launched by F/OSS zealots. For some reason, vocal minorities are often confused with silent majorities. I'll put more faith in this alleged consumer demand when Linux boxes start outselling all other systems by a 2-to-1 margin. In fact, I'd be amazed if they even sold at a 1:2 margin. It would be a pleasant surprise, but a surprise nonetheless.

Re:

[Xzzy]

Yeah no kidding. A self-selecting population with a big motive to push their agenda given a direct line to a company's future product offering? Not exactly a scientific test.

I wonder what percentage of the votes are the results of ballot stuffing.. something extremely common for online communities that discover online polls.

Re:Requests != demand

[profplump]

You're correct in assuming that most people buying machine from Dell probably *are* happy without a pre-installed linux configuration option, but that doesn't mean the statistics in the poll aren't representative of some portion of Dell's actual machine-buying customers, or that the poll results are somehow rigged or invalid. All the statistics say is that, of people not happy with the existing configuration options, the most popular change request is pre-installed Linux, not that most customers would prefer Linux to Windows. Having Windows pre-installed is not a change, and therefore that configuration option is not represented in the statistics.

Re:

[Jherek Carnelian]

I'll put more faith in this alleged consumer demand when Linux boxes start outselling all other systems by a 2-to-1 margin. In fact, I'd be amazed if they even sold at a 1:2 margin.

Both are ridiculously high bars to measure up to.

No one is asking for Windows to come pre-installed, because it already does. It does not require any funny-business for a survey like this to be correct and still only represent some small fraction of total sales. It just means that of the services or products Dell does not curre

Re:

[evilviper]

I'll put more faith in this alleged consumer demand when Linux boxes start outselling all other systems by a 2-to-1 margin.

The 2:1 margin was for REQUESTS. Obviously, since they're selling Windows, nobody is going to REQUEST it.

So, no, it's not going to sell 2:1, or even 1:2, and it's stupid to think it should, based on this story.

HOWEVER, this story is misleading, as the "No Extra Software" (on Windows) is divided into two different options, and if vote were combined, would be about 80% of the Linux optio

Re:

[AusIV]

HOWEVER, this story is misleading, as the "No Extra Software" (on Windows) is divided into two different options, and if vote were combined, would be about 80% of the Linux option. So, it's decidedly not 2:1.

Actually if you look at it, slots 2 and 4 are no extra software, but 1, 5, and 6 all make mention of Linux. At the time of this writing, options 1, 5, and 6 total 23,535 votes, options 2 and 4 total 14,243, a ratio of 1.65:1.

Re:Requests != demand

[jesdynf]

You put a radio button that reads "( ) OpenOffice, FREE ( ) MS Office, $49.99 Dell Discount Rate" and we'll talk about consumer demand.

Re:

[jesdynf]

And Base is an offense before God and Richard Stallman both, what's your point?

I /absolutely guarantee/ that if you put that radio button there, eighty percent of Dell's residential customers will suddenly find they can manage to survive without Office.

Lack of Sales != Lack of Demand...

[Svartalf]

Unless there is a real option for more than very select versions then there won't be anywhere near the sales of those systems.
Dell offers Linux or no OS on select models because of Windows Licensing reasons. They've got special BIOS tags in the HP/Dell/etc. machines that make for "easier" installation of XP and Vista- and they have to have different BIOSes for the Linux/No OS boxes. Since the bulk of their line is Windows-Only, they've only made up and verified select models for the other option, which is

Re:

[nine-times]

Well the question, apparently, was about requests not-currently offered by Dell. It's not saying that Dell is getting more requests for Linux than they're getting Windows purchases. It's nothing of that sort. Just, "out of things currently not altered by Dell, what would you like to see most?"

I'm not surprised that Linux would win this legitimately. Alternative operating systems, including Windows 200/XP now that Vista is out, would certainly be among my top requests. And anyway, even if it it is a "v

Re:

[westlake]

I'll put more faith in this alleged consumer demand when Linux boxes start outselling all other systems by a 2-to-1 margin. In fact, I'd be amazed if they even sold at a 1:2 margin.

Walmart.com tried to make a go of every OEM Linux distro known to man.

January 31st came and went with one lone Xandros box remaining ---buried deep---and thirty Vista systems ready for sale.

Um... why?

[ettlz]

No thank-you.

• What distro are they going to use? As many as financially feasible? I can hear the Gentoo hordes clamouring already.
• How old will this distro be?
• How do I know it's been set up correctly?
• What if I want a BSD?
• Do we really want to let people loose on Linux who can't [be bothered to] install it themselves?

I use Linux more or less exclusively, but I'd never buy a machine with it preinstalled. I've seen how badly a computer supplier can botch a Windows install. Just ship the box blank and accept that some people know more about certain things than you do.

Hardware support

[AusIV]

As a user who just bought a System76 [system76.com] laptop, which ships with Ubuntu, I'd like to comment. In part, I agree - my computer came with a widescreen monitor and no option for any wide-screen resolution, it took a while to get that straightened out. The swap partition also had not been activated. I don't know that a non-technical user would have noticed either of these, let alone be bothered by them, but I did think it was a bit irresponsible of the distributors.

On the flipside, I have the comfort of knowing t

Re:

[AusIV]

The hardware has been better than any other system I've put Linux on. I had to do a little bit of work to get resolution configured properly, and I had to activate my swap partition (though they claim this has been corrected for new systems). I got the cheapest laptop they had and I've not been disappointed. Hibernate and suspend work great, beryl works wonderfully and doesn't conflict with hibernate or suspend at all (it does on one of my other systems).

As far as support they've been awesome. There was a

Hey Brutus!

[copponex]

Do you ever want mainstream driver support? Stop whining like a child whenever someone offers a service that includes Linux that isn't perfect for your needs. You need to a mature a little bit, and that involves coming to the conclusion that what's best for you may not be what's best for someone else. One thing I'm sure of is that it wouldn't hurt the Linux community to have highly visible desktop Dell support. I suspect you'd rather feel superior about your operating system than help the community that develops it.

Re:Um... why?

[LParks]

What if I want a BSD?

If you want a Blue Screen of Death, then just get one of their Windows options.

Re:Um... why?

[towsonu2003]

No thank-you. (...) Just ship the box blank (...)

If they ship Linux pre-installed, that means they included the proper F*all caps*G hardware that work with Linux... That means I don't have to look for Linux-compatible hardware with the idea "omfg, will they accept my return if it doesn't work?" in my head...

Now those who modded the parent insightful, please mod me *redundant*...

Include a Wireless Driver That "Just Works"

[aquatone282]

. . . and I'll order a Dell with pre-installed Linux too.

Re:

[flacco]

http://www.system76.com/ [system76.com]

Re:

[AusIV]

To add to that, I bought a Gazelle [system76.com] a couple weeks ago and I love it. It had a few configuration hitches to work out initially, but the driver support is superb.

I think the #2 request is "no more Indians/phone"

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

I think the #2 request is "no more Indians on the phone". Seriously - check out: http://www.dellideastorm.com/article/show/61748 [dellideastorm.com] http://www.dellideastorm.com/article/show/61833 [dellideastorm.com]

Now, honestly....I know that this may not be the nicest thing, but the biggest complaint I hear and have myself is that dell hires techs that sometimes I really can't understand at ALL. Come on people, promote this idea, wouldn't you like to hear someone who spoke english as a first language? No offense meant here, but I would just

Re:

[xlsior]

I think the #2 request is "no more Indians on the phone".

They already offer that, it's just phrased as "Gold Technical Support", and costs you an extra $80 or so.

Not that many votes

[Dan_Bercell]

14,000 votes means only 4666 people voted for it, and I can just imagine how many zelots voted multiple time (this isnt the first pro-linux website that has promoted this link)

I think the person who posted this link got a little excited over nothing. If anyone really believes that having Linux on the desktop is more important/popular to consumers then being able to speak to a 'John Smith' rather then a 'Abdule Ramakaiaky' for their tech support is out of their mind.

Margin Errors

[DesertBlade]

I don't thinks this is 100% accruate. Number 2 is "NO EXTRA SOFTWARE OPTION" with 8016 votes and number 4 is "Build computers not loaded with extra software" with 5102 votes which equals 13118. Which is almost the same as number 1 "Pre-Installed Linux | Ubuntu | Fedora | OpenSUSE | Multi-Boot" with 14641 votes.

Someone needs to clean up the voting an remove dups. There are some good ideas hopefully Dell will listen.

Web comments != paying customers

[RLiegh]

Just because a bunch of people on a web board request something, doesn't mean that it's a reflection of what people who are actually going to pay cash money want. It reflects that there's a strong desire for dell to preload linux and OpenOffice.org; but it's not necessarily a given that the people who are making that request are willing to shell out the bucks to buy a dell (especially considering the fact that most people who buy linux computers buy servers, and any desktop user who is competent enough to use Linux isn't going to settle for a prefab box, they're going to build theirs themselves).

Re:

[Richard Steiner]

For a period of several years it often wasn't worth it for me to build a system out of discrete components because (a) pre-built systems were available with the most common hardware configurations I wanted and (b) those systems came with much longer hardware warranties than I could get from the individual component manufacturers, sometimes 2-3 times as long.

That's why I have a Micron box here, for example, and why I've purchased used IBM boxes in the past. Their IntelliStation line did what I wanted.

I have

Too late...

[flacco]

i'mm happily tapping away on my System76 Ubuntu system (http://www.system76.com).

What people say and what they do

[sjbe]

I believe they'll have a harder time now with the tired old mantra 'There's no customer demand for Linux.'

Maybe but as a business owner I can tell you that what people say they want and what they are actually willing to fork over money for are often very different things. Dell does $60 billion in revenue [yahoo.com] annually which means Dell needs a huge number of people to buy linux equipped machines for it to be worth the investment. To keep Wall Street happy they'll need to grow around 14% next year. (very rough g

Which distro?

[seebs]

It's ridiculous. While "Linux" may be a large market, each individual Linux is going to appeal only to a subset, and furthermore, users may not know which one they want. How do you know whether you want Linux Home Basic, Linux Home Premium, or Linux Ultimate? Or, if you run a home business, maybe you need Linux Enterprise or Linux Business. If you're not sure, maybe you should try Linux Starter, but I'm not sure you can upgrade.

No one would ever expect a commercial product to succeed with that kind of internal market fragmentation, I don't see why they think it'll work for Linux.

Please vote for OpenOffice option

[dokebi]

I think preinstalled OpenOffice would do more to promote Open Source and MS Alternatives than anything else. Linux is still unsuitable for casual users with other casual users as friends. For an average user wanting to run business apps or games, Linux/Wine/QEMU just isn't as friendly nor has the "ask your neighbor" tech support that you'd get running Windows.

With a default OO install, there will be an instant install base of ODF. It'll do wonders for adoption of the format. Other manufacturers might even follow Dell, seeing how Dell can add functional software with minimal cost, leading to even more adoption. Business users might purchase MS Office anyway, but the home users and small businesses needing basic office needs would benefit in a real way without spending more money.

So please, vote for OO.o. Having Dell install linux by default might be really cool, but voting for OO.o would help both Open Source awareness and adoption.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Requests from some doesn't mean much

[ThousandStars]

If we took all the fulminating from Maclots like me about what trash Windows is, we'd probably assume that no one save an idiot would use it. And yet Windows is still the behemoth with more than 90% of the computer market. Judging what Dell's customers want from what those sufficiently energized and invested say on a website isn't perfect.

Many of Dell's customers may very well want Linux. But you can't generalize from this survey to all of Dell's market is foolhardy.

Certification would be better than install

[Bill Dimm]

I don't think I would want Dell, or anyone else, doing the install for me, since I want to handle partitioning and package selection myself. It would be nice if each model said something like "certified that all hardware works with Linux Distros X, Y, and Z out of the box" so that I wouldn't have to hunt that info down myself.

Yes, but will it happen?

[BertieBaggio]

Now, I want Dell to sell (and not just sell, but promote) Linux as much as the next Slashdotter, but I don't think this alone will necessarily convince them to do it. There was an insightful comment posted by compugeek on the suggestion in question:

This would be great, except that it really wouldn't be that much cheaper. OEM copies of Windows are inexpensive already, and the bloatware that helps Dell keep prices low is not necessarily compatible with Linux.

Head of nail, meet hammer. I wouldn't be sur

Dell Linux

[DeepBlueGlow]

The best way for Dell (or any OEM) to support Linux would be to start their own distro pre-installed, configured and optimized for the hardware they sell.

Shaving hundreds from the cost of a PC?

[frdmfghtr]

FTA:

Quality free and open source software drastically lowers the cost of new PCs, and helps prevent software piracy. For example OpenOffice.org, the Microsoft Office alternative, can shave hundreds of dollars off the price of a new PC.

With PCs starting from $360 to $650, can you really expect to shave "hundreds" off the price of a new PC? The $650 machine doesn't come with Office, and Dell probably only pays $60 or so per Windows license (anybody got firmer numbers?)

The savings may be modest at best, but at least there would be an option (and I didn't see anyplace that said Dell IS GOING TO offer Linux, just that it is wanted by the respondents).

Re:

[AusIV]

Very true. Plus Dell gets paid to pre-install crapware on your computer (see requests 2, 4, and 6 at the moment) to offset some of the costs of the computer. If they're bundling Free software, they won't sell as much crapware, probably raising the cost of the computer.

Re:

[smash]

FTA: Quality free and open source software drastically lowers the cost of new PCs, and helps prevent software piracy. For example OpenOffice.org, the Microsoft Office alternative, can shave hundreds of dollars off the price of a new PC.

With PCs starting from $360 to $650, can you really expect to shave "hundreds" off the price of a new PC? The $650 machine doesn't come with Office, and Dell probably only pays $60 or so per Windows license (anybody got firmer numbers?)

More importantly, how were

dhart submissions all over the place.

[Short Circuit]

It's a Digg-style ranking site. And items one and three were submitted by the same user (dhart). And now he submits a link to Slashdot to boost the ratings farther.

He calls this an honest representation of customer demand?! When I got linked to by Slashdot, I got 28,000 hits. And that was a Sunday morning. Say bye-bye to any sort of reasonable cross-section of Dell users.

I love Linux, and haven't run anything But Linux on my personal systems since 2001, but this is very nearly astroturfing. At the very least, it'll strongly bias the demographic on ideastorm.

Shill?

[Gothmolly]

So 100 motivated geeks spammed their website and made it look as if there's huge customer demand. Duh. That's like those CNN or MoveOn.org polls - only the motivated even go there.

A better metric would be to have an OS choice list on their config page, with a "sorry we don't support Linux option" displayed once people click it.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Ever actually try to buy a Linux laoptop?

[Animats]

I've been trying to buy a Linux laptop. Unsuccessfully. I'm looking for a low-end system, just enough to give presentations and access systems remotely. My main systems are desktops. I don't need to be able to play movies. I don't need dual boot. I don't need much compute power or a big screen. I do need WiFi capability to public access points, and VGA output to projectors. One would think this would be easy.

So first I try Fry's, which used to have Linux machines on sale. No more. Everything is Windows or Mac. I try Best Buy. No joy, even after a talk with the Geek Squad guy.

Online, we have LinuxCertified [linuxcertified.com]. No obvious business address on the web site, always a bad sign, and a criminal offense in California. Low-grade domain-only SSL cert. Phone number not answered during working hours. Not looking good.

There's an article about a $498 Linux laptop from WalMart, but it's been discontinued. WalMart no longer seems to have any Linux laptops.

There's EmperorLinux [emperorlinux.com], but their laptops start at $1145 and go up to $6000. Their $1145 machine is a Dell 520, which Dell sells for $599. $400 extra for Linux?

So now we're down to the blogger/enthusiast sites. One guy [mcelrath.org] has a list of Linux laptop vendors. Going down the list, it doesn't look good. The HP link is dead. The Dell link leads to Dell's French site, and even that's selling only Windows laptops.

But some of the links aren't dead. MGE PC Online [mgepconline.com] will actually sell a Linux laptop. It's a bit overpriced; $805 for the cheapest Celeron machine. But you get Red Hat Fedora preloaded. ShopRCubed [shoprcubed.com] has Linux laptops that start at $840. Their advertising is deceptive; they advertise a model with "Intel Dual Core Technology" for $799, but in fact that's the price with an Intel Celeron. Adding WiFi and a Ubuntu install brings you up to $840.

There's American Computer [accpc.com], or ACC PC, or CompAmerica, or whatever. Very low base prices, but they don't install Linux; they just sell you a bare machine and claim "Also Certified to run the Linux Operating System."

Let's try Google's "Froogle" system. There we get some Linux laptops. There's a discontinued Acer model that's out of stock. There's a Pentium II laptop on eBay for $80. ("Boots Linux; some keys don't work") Nothing useful there.

Face it. There are no major commercial vendors of Linux laptops any more. There are a few resellers buying machines, adding Linux, and increasing the price. That's it.

Not conclusive

[NekoXP]

This just means all the people who wanted to demand something of Dell - more RAM, shinier cases, please go AMD - demanded Linux too half the time.

The people who signed up on the site to make their little ideastorms aren't representative of Dell's entire customer base even in the slightest.

You can bet there is a post on every Linux distro forum linking Dell's site telling people to go and suggest preinstalled Linux of some flavor. That skews the results too much. Internet polls just don't work, it's a fact. For statistics to be useful you first have to know what you are going to do with them once you've got the data (i.e. have a goal that needs statistics, don't collect statistics for shits and giggles) and when you do collect the data you need to be suitably impartial. There are good ways of collecting data about customer needs the same way there are good ways to interview employees for a job (psychometric testing ftw)

Re:

[Zphbeeblbrox]

And in any case, preinstalling Linux for geeks is a waste of time - they're the vocal minority who want preinstalled Linux because it increases mindshare but will tire of having a 6 month old distro on their laptop when they buy it, and install the latest development release anyway.

While it may be a reasonable assumption, you are still making an assumption. I am one of those vocal geeks linux geeks. Here is why I want preinstalled linux. I can buy boxes for my 5 kids and wife. Those don't have to be cutting

Re:Which distro?

[gormanly]

Dell ships workstations and servers with Red Hat Enterprise Linux preinstalled and re-sells the support contracts.

End-user boots up, configures their system (as they'd have to do with Windows on first boot) and logs in. The RHN updates icon tells them when patches are available (if they don't have a sysadmin to take care of all that). Easy as pie.

Re:

[stinerman]

With respect, the notion that anyone would demand royalties on advice they gave someone freely and without coercion is mad.

Re:

[JoshJ]

How do we know that the voting isn't rigged by Dell? Are we so sure that many customers voted? Are all the voters from the same IP block, the same company, the same city, or is it a statistically random representative sample?

It actually shows the votes on the page by geography if guest, or username. The answer is that it's none of the above. It's a self-selected sample, which means it suffers from a bias and is unusable for any real statistical work. What it does show is that there is a demand for preinsta