Slashdot Log In
Librarians Stake Their Future on OSS
Posted by
Zonk
on Sat Dec 23, 2006 04:26 PM
from the wish-we-had-that-here dept.
from the wish-we-had-that-here dept.
Systems Librarian writes "Linux.com is running a story entitled 'Librarians stake their future on open source'. It details a group of librarians at the Georgia Public Library Service that have developed an open source, enterprise-class library management system that may revolutionize the way large-scale libraries are run. The system is Evergreen. The element of this project that has the participants especially excited is the speed. Previously, if users wanted changes to their systems, they'd be put into an 'enhancement queue'. Now, some features are implemented overnight. From the article: 'In fact, the catalog has many features and innovations that are lacking in non-free systems. It does on-the-fly spellcheck and gives search suggestions and adds additional content, such as book covers, reviews, and excerpts. The Shelf Browser shows items ordered along a virtual shelf built out of the holdings of the entire system. Patrons can create bookbags, which are lists that contain a selected collection of annotated titles. Bookbags can be kept private or shared as a regular Web page or as Atom or RSS feeds.'" Linux.com and Slashdot are both owned by OSTG.
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
Librarians Stake Their Future on OSS
|
Log In/Create an Account
| Top
| 178 comments
| Search Discussion
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Of course! (Score:5, Funny)
(http://whineymacfanboy.googlepages.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday April 12 2007, @09:28AM)
Re:Of course! (Score:5, Insightful)
You'd think that, wouldn't you? I, on the other hand, am actually rather upset at the Gwinnett (note: a county in Georgia) Public Library, because they make digital media [gwinnettpl.org] available only in proprietary DRM'd WMA format. It's bad enough that DRM exists, but it really pisses me off when my taxes are paying for it!
This is nice stuff. (Score:1, Insightful)
Those Librarians must be gifted! (Score:1, Interesting)
The system appears to be pretty complex from the description above. If indeed, it's the group of librarians that developed it, they must be very very gifted. I am trying to see how any of the librarians at my former university would develop a system even half as complex. They did not seem to be all that IT savvy! And by the way, mine was a "prestigious" university in the USA.
But I guess the definition of "enterprise-class" is in itself, subjective.
Re:Those Librarians must be gifted! (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.imagicity.com/)
That must have been uncomfortable for him....
Virtual Shelf sounds great (Score:5, Insightful)
Look at the actual system! (Score:5, Informative)
(http://whineymacfanboy.googlepages.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday April 12 2007, @09:28AM)
(system seems a little slow already, hopefully this doesn't slashdot it).
Good (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://unixclan.no-ip.org/ | Last Journal: Wednesday December 27 2006, @12:59PM)
Re:Good (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://www.geocities.com/theLICC)
The OP said "proprietary".
If IE is so free, can you get me the source so I can fix some of the bugs?
it's data entry and physical work, not software (Score:4, Informative)
It always annoyed me when public money was spent on proprietary software, especially when there already are free solutions that are more secure and full featured.
This is irrelevant. There WAS no free, more secure, or full featured solution for library management.
Nevermind that most of the cost, at least initially and for the first few years, is NOT the software. About a decade ago when my school went to a computerized system, the cost was mostly in labor.
I don't recall how they managed to link barcodes to books; whether each book was pre-assigned a specific barcode, or barcodes were applied and the system brought into sync via hand entry.
This process took MONTHS and the work of several librarians and the expensive data-entry company.
I can imagine scenarios where you could get 2 dozen volunteers and go shelf by shelf through a library and catalog the collection, but it'd still be a massive undertaking, even for a small library such as one in a high school.
Your only hope is aggressive use of laptops on wireless with barcode scanners, and an ISBN lookup database you can pull, quickly verify the basics, and toss the book on the shelf again (in the proper order.)
Re:it's data entry and physical work, not software (Score:4, Interesting)
This seems irrelevant, as most libraries already use computerized systems. So, we're not talking about conversion from a card catalog. The data would already be in a database, and that could be converted pretty easily. It's a much simpler process to change software than to move from card to computers.
Vendor lock-in vs. good customer service (Score:4, Informative)
(http://coffeecode.net/ | Last Journal: Friday September 10 2004, @12:04AM)
This is true, as far as the bibliographic information goes. There are lots of open-source packages for working with MARC records, like pymarc (Python) [textualize.com] or File_MARC (PHP) [php.net]. But the rest of the system is proprietary: holdings records, (which copies do you hold, in which locations, and where is that copy currently - loaned out, lost, on reserve, etc), circulation records, user records, acquisitions records. Sure, it's all just a database schema mapping exercise, if your vendor's license allows you to touch that data directly. Sadly, the past generation of libraries seems to have accepted vendor lock-in as a matter of course; a mistake that we're paying for now and which led directly to the development of Evergreen.
Wow. This is just so wrong that I don't know where to begin. First, Voyager is far from the market leader (in either usable interfaces or in market share). See Second, the underlying database doesn't mean a thing if you aren't given the APIs to actually modify or extend your primary application, unless you're willing to reimplement the entire application -- in which case, why bother paying for a library system in the first place. And in most cases, when the vendor has made an API available, you have to pay extra fee per potential developer to receive the documentation and to be eligible for paid support for their API (which, of course, is an additional support fee over and above your standard support fees). Third, most librarians I know couldn't care less about what technology their system is built on. They're focused on providing the best possible service to their users. Over the past few years, the library community has started to realize that there are some pretty cool Web interfaces out there in the wild that their vendors aren't providing for us. So we've been going through exercises like NCSU's use of Endeca [ncsu.edu] (on the proprietary side) and Koha [koha.org], Evergreen [open-ils.org], and WPopac [maisonbisson.com] (on the open-source side) to try and correct the situation. Librarians rock, you know.A couple of answers from their FAQ (Score:5, Informative)
6. What license is this software going to be released under?
We are releasing this software under the GPL.
8. What core technologies are you utilizing?
* Database: Postgresql
* Logic/glue languages: C and Perl
* Webserver: Apache, mod_perl
* Server operating system: Linux
* Server hardware: x86-64
* Messaging core: Jabber
* Client side software: XUL
I was especially happily surprised to see jabber there. I have long thought that jabber is vastly underrated and under-used.
The entire FAQ is at:
http://www.open-ils.org/faq.html [open-ils.org]
I'm impressed, but... (Score:2)
Re:I'm impressed, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://www.imagicity.com/)
Googlebot, for one.
Millions and millions. 8^)
There are extremely strong technical reasons not to rely on JavaScript to deliver content. This is just one of the most obvious.
By all means, go ahead and use JavaScript. Just don't rely on it, or you'll be sorry.
Nice! (Score:3, Interesting)
Our library consortium uses something called Polaris, by Gaylord Information Systems. It's among the worst pieces of software I have ever had the opportunity to use, and it is completely proprietary and Windows based. It's a pain in the ass to get anything done, and is missing several key features (such as customizable reports) that would make our lives much easier. Coming from a company called "Gaylord" what can we expect, eh?
Hopefully Evergreen gains enough steam to get our consortium to at least consider it, however considering that most of the IT people employed by the consortium can't even figure out how to manage Windows servers it's likely they'll opt for something easer for them to administrate.
I'd like to see this in other industries, too (Score:5, Insightful)
This looks useful. (Score:2)
(http://zeff.us/)
packaging? (Score:2)
I don't see any RPM or Debian packages. Do they exist? Is there a ready-to-install image?
Re:packaging? (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://whineymacfanboy.googlepages.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday April 12 2007, @09:28AM)
I think a project this size is going to need someone competent enough to untar a tarball to run things. Packaging isn't as big a deal for complex server software as it is for desktop or commodity server software.
A few items out there like this (Score:4, Informative)
(http://www.linuxlibrarian.org/)
Also check out Koha [koha.org], which is going to be launched at the Meadville Public Library in PA early next year, and has been in place in a few libraries throughout the world. It runs natively on Linux... I've gotten it to run on my home box (I am currently doing archives work for a local organization) and I think it holds its own against Horizon, III, Aleph and the big boys of integrated library systems.
I wanted to try out Open-ILS/Evergreen, but had some issues getting it to run. Granted, I didn't try as hard as I did with Koha.
In terms of Linux in libraries, there are a few devoted people (and the numbers are growing) pushing for it. I swear, it can not be beat in the public computing arena.
An open ILS just makes sense. It is easily customized, cheaper in the long run, and really, all the ILS software is served through web pages now anyway. Why are libraries spending up to $10,000 a seat for this stuff? It's the learning curve. And FUD.
Librarians have always understood technology (Score:2, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Friday June 11 2004, @11:15AM)
Other government departments seem to do the exact opposite.
Perhaps we should get the nations librarians to run government IT departments.
I'm Pleased to See the Rollout Went Well (Score:5, Informative)
In the process, my boss and I were made aware that the Library was planning to dump their ancient Dynix ILS and switch to a new one. I tried making a case that they would be better off spending the $100,000 budgeted for the new system on developing an OSS one (paying me to do it, of course!) which would give them more control over the result. So I researched a lot of the OSS ILS projects going on. Evergreen seemed very promising.
The CCSF Library ended up going with a proprietary system - and guess what? They got screwed at least partially. The company promised to integrate the library checkout counter portion of the system with the SCT Banner student database that CCSF uses. This was a requirement and the library put it in the contract. And sure enough, as soon as the money changed hands, the company reneged on the requirement (because integrating anything with Banner is not a trivial task). Some personnel from the CCSF ITS department had to devote considerable time to providing a work-around.
So I'm glad Georgia managed to get Evergreen out and it seems to be working well, at least from the initial reports. They also managed to get it working fairly quickly as large OSS projects go. I think they were only at it for a couple years. And ILS's are not trivial projects. There are library industry technical standards that have to be adhered to and the end user usability issues are enormous. The acquisitions side tends to be complex (especially on the magazine subscription side), and the MARC record standard is not a simple thing to translate into a relational database schema.
Masters of Library Science/Information Science (Score:1)
(http://subjectobject.net/)
Right now I am completing a Masters of Information Studies (AKA Library Science AKA Information Science). Let me just say that, while not everyone has a computer or Internet culture background here, we do discuss Free Software quite a bit. And not only in our computer classes, but also classes like "Information and its Social Contexts."
While we might not all be programmers, many of us are staunch defenders of open access to all information, including software. We might not seem like FOSS zealots, but we can be, and I think from a different place than strict computer nerds. Part of the reason why I like studying here is because, unlike many other university departments, we are cognisant and critical of the changes that are happening, for both good and bad.
25 years ago... (Score:3, Informative)
Of course (Score:4, Funny)
(Last Journal: Monday October 15, @07:06PM)
Any smaller scale solutions out there? (Score:2, Interesting)
Scalability (Score:1)
Amazing (Score:2)
Evergreen (Score:1, Informative)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evergreen_(software) [wikipedia.org]
MySQL batgirl password in source code (Score:4, Funny)
#!/usr/bin/perl
use strict;
use DBI;
my $dbh = DBI->connect('DBI:mysql:database=reports;host=bat
They're also using PostgreSQL, as described in the FAQ, but the FAQ has no mention of MySQL. Someone should probably change the MySQL password on batgirl.gsu.edu, if they haven't already.
Upgrading from other systems? (Score:3, Interesting)
(http://www.fiestyturtles.com/ | Last Journal: Tuesday October 23, @09:07PM)
Very Impressed (Score:4, Insightful)
"Stake their future on OSS"? Really? (Score:2)
(Last Journal: Saturday April 03 2004, @07:10PM)
Evergreen? Doesn't compute (Score:2)
--
Cheers, Gene
WAY too early to declare success (Score:1)
(http://alptown.com/)
Most of these ILS were state of the art at one time, but decisions made many years ago have limited what they can do now. Don't get me wrong. I am fascinated by Evergreen and may even contribute to it sometime. I think it's a great idea, and think they have made some innovative design choices (many of which are not discussed in the article)
But we need to honest about what's going on here. A handful of clever people have got a very basic system up. It has no acquisitions or serials modules -- i.e. the harder part to write which isn't visible to the public but which is critical for wide scale implementation. The project must move forward very carefully, or someone will wind up reverse engineering all this stuff later.
If you run a library, you have to KNOW you'll be able to run the system because your entire operation and years worth of data depend on it. Turnkey systems may have all kinds of problems and be expensive, but the problems can be solved with money. There may be librarians with very strong IT skills, but there are few enough of them that you can't count on being able to hire at least one of them.
online libraries are satanic (Score:1)
The idea that anyone can access the intellectual property of others without paying is just wrong. Librarians are pirates and thieves trying to rob poor starving artists and the hardworking publishing houses, recording companies, and movie studios. Libraries stop people from creating works of art by making them poor.
Who in their right mind is going to write a book knowing it might end up in a library?
Linux In Libraries (Score:1)
(http://www.linuxinlibraries.com/)
Right now I only have Firefox and Open Office on our public access Windows XP machines. I am in the process of installing Ubuntu Edgy onto a couple space computers. As the XP machines need to be serviced, I will be putting those spare machines out for them to use.
Isn't this like Star Trek? (Score:2)
I mean:-
Now if they would just OCR all the books, they could dispense with the actual "library" part - and save a chunk of cash on premises, and all that fire insurance! (plus we could search the text a hell of a lot faster
Disclaimer: I realise there are advantages to hard copy over reading off of a screen, and not just subjective ones either. This post is provided for your amusement only and should not be used to form part of any government decision making process.
Cheers (and a Merry Christmas)
Scoot.
Re:One washed out has-been helps another... (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://whineymacfanboy.googlepages.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday April 12 2007, @09:28AM)
Well, both look better than the future of your slashdot trolling career if that's the best you can do.
Seeing its almost impossible for online libraries to legally lend ebooks, I don't see brick & mortar libraries going anywhere anytime soon. As GPL (and other Open Source) software is vital to almost all aspects of the software industry, OSS isn't going anywhere either.
Re:One washed out has-been helps another... (Score:1)
Re:Postgresql as the database (Score:1)
Re:Postgresql as the database (Score:5, Informative)
(http://www.zetafleet.com/)
Re:I don't think this will help much (Score:2)
An election is only fair if it can be shown beyond reasonable doubt to every participant that it is fair. In other words, there is a requirement for universal demonstrability of fairness. Since nobody can say whether or not something is fair unless they first understand it, there is also a requirement for universal comprehensibility. {My personal definition would be "nothing beyond the understanding of a school leaver with passing grades in all subjects", but that is a starting point for negotiation.} That pretty much rules out most electronic systems, and certainly any general-purpose device which can do more than one thing. You might get away with an electromechanical or pure-mechanical machine, if it can be made available for public scrutiny whenever not being used for elections.
However, the level of human scrutiny required is no less even for a well-designed machine-based system than for simple pencil/paper/drop-in-the-box/hand-count elections. In fact, most of the security of any electoral system relies ultimately on the diligence of scrutineers, whose task becomes simpler with decreasing sophistication of the election paraphernalia.