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Novell Injects MS Lawsuit Exploit Into Open Office
Posted by
kdawson
on Sat Nov 18, 2006 02:37 PM
from the danger-will-robinson dept.
from the danger-will-robinson dept.
F.M. Petain writes, "It looks like Microsoft's first move in the 'Linux owes us' game is to move a Pawn. A few days ago, a Novell programmer, Noel Power, submitted patches to add VBA compatibility to Open Office's spreadsheet module. This is great for people trying to convert the business desktop from closed source to open source, but is this gift really a ticking time bomb? What happens when Microsoft declares that the VBA code was stolen?" The patches may have been submitted only a few days ago, but the code must be considerably older; the article claims that nine distros in adition to SUSE already support the VBA extensions in their versions of Open Office. (Linux.com and Slashdot are both part of OSTG.)
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Novell Injects MS Lawsuit Exploit Into Open Office
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Poison pill (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm truely amazed that Novell is co-operating to let them do this. How can they benefit from Linux being threatened when their entire business is revolving around Linux these days??
Re:Poison pill (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://electrob.org/ | Last Journal: Thursday September 27, @01:42PM)
Re:Poison pill (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.soundepartment.com/)
This is oblique, but not fully off-topic.
Maybe the slashdot icon for Microsoft should be switched from Bill the Borg to Admiral Akbar with Steve Balllamer's face photoshopped on.
Just a thought.
Re:Poison pill (Score:5, Insightful)
2. Novell envies Microsoft so buys WordPerfect. WP for Windows is initially a pathetic joke and MS Word takes over the number 1 spot. Novell continues to piss around, WordPerfect continues to lose market share, and eventually, after WordPerfect is way, way behind, Novell sells WP to Corel (another loser company) for peanuts compared to what they originally paid.
3. Novell buys SuSE and then Ximian. Immediately moves to change SuSE default desktop to Gnome, alienating many of SuSE long time customers. SuSE continues to lose market share and the Germans wish they'd been taken over by a company that (a) isn't a building full of pussies, and (b) has a fricking clue.
4. Novell is STILL trying to sell fricking Netware. Doesn't seem to notice that nobody fricking gives two turds about Netware anymore.
5. Novell is "indemnified" by Microsoft for any IP that might be included in SuSE (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!) in return for a cash infusion to delay the inevitable. Novell is instantly ostracized (a la SCO, another Microsoft shell company) by the entire Linux community, which ironically HASTENS its inevitable demise.
Novell: One very lucky company... one time, twenty fricking years ago, when they somehow managed to produce an outstanding product called Netware... for it's time. The responsible developers apparently left shortly thereafter because it's been an embarassment to themselves and to those stupid enough to let themselves be acquired by Novell ever since.
What a bunch of maroons.
Re:Poison pill (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://kim.biyn.com/)
If you're running SuSE already (10.1 or earlier) there is little reason to dump what you have, but keep your options open and reevaluate the larger distributions periodically. Given the refinement of KDE in SuSE, I'm reluctant to dump it even for kubuntu.
Re:Poison pill (Score:5, Insightful)
Sadly in the big corporate world that just isn't true, I wish it was (would make life a lot simpler). I get asked for Netware / eDirectory / Groupwise (you missed that one) integration all the time. The people asking aren't asking for nostalgia - they are running networks with 10k+ desktops on those products right now.
Re:Poison pill (Score:4, Informative)
As far as eDirectory, and to a lesser extent Netware goes, I would respectfully disagree. eDirectory was and still is a very very good directory product. After fighting with inActive Directory for 3 years I would tell any enterprise with a large directory that is considering migrating off eDirectory that they are nuts - stay with it until Novell gives up the last gasp.
sPh
*all* patches from Novell must be rejected (Score:4, Insightful)
Oh, and for Saturday night relief - even the mighty can be seduced by MS charm: farewell, Napoleon! [ifilm.com]
Proof or STFU (Score:5, Informative)
No. Novell will not change its development practices as a result of this agreement. It has always been our policy in all development, open source and proprietary, to stay away from code that infringes another's patents, and we will continue to develop software using these standard practices. If any of our code is found to infringe someone else's patents, we will try to find prior technology to invalidate the patents, rework the code to design around the infringement, or as a last resort remove the functionality.
Novell is committed to protecting, preserving and promoting freedom for free and open source software.
http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq_opensou
Re:*all* patches from Novell must be rejected (Score:4, Informative)
(http://www.tombstone...in/index.cgi?page=56)
The macro that is included as a VBA demo in the article http://www.linuxtalk.co.uk/ooo_vba/hypocycloid-de
Re:*all* posts from "/." must be rejected (Score:5, Funny)
I am intrigued by your non-sequiturs and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Re:*all* posts from "/." must be rejected (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:*all* patches from Novell must be rejected (Score:4, Insightful)
If MS/Novell releases open source code is because they want to make it opensource. That means that Microsoft/Novell would *agree* on releasing it as opensource code.
If Microsoft wanted to sue Linux companies for patent usage, he could do it without injecting any "poison pill". The patent system is so broken (even MS admits it) that Linux is very probably infringing thousand of Microsoft patents.
Re:*all* patches from Novell must be rejected (Score:5, Insightful)
Thousands of Microsoft patents, or thousands of valid Microsoft patents?
Why MS prefer patent FUD to patent WAR (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Thursday May 26 2005, @07:19PM)
The point is that Microsoft doesn't want to sue at this time.
MS (like most of the big patent-pushers) does not want a Big Patent War before they get software patents passed in Europe - because the chances of getting software patents passed after a Big Patent War are slim-to-none.
European Patent Wars Heat up Again [technocrat.net]
Re:*all* patches from Novell must be rejected (Score:4, Interesting)
(http://theravensnest.org/ | Last Journal: Sunday October 07, @07:05AM)
The VBA code in OO.o isn't entirely new either. There was a presentation at Linux '05 by some Novell guys on the VBA code that they had written for OO.o, and they claimed then it was very close to supporting all the functions people actually used.
Pwned Office, (Score:1)
Ads (Score:4, Funny)
I'll pass on MS-controlled Linux, thanks...
Re:Ads (Score:4, Interesting)
Now we're screwed... (Score:2)
Great, now I don't don't know if I'm vulnerable until it's too late. How do I disable it? Is now the time for a Linux anti-virus?
This story is idiotic (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://infoathand.com/)
Re:The word is "caution". (Score:4, Informative)
(http://infoathand.com/)
Of course, but how is it more likely to occur in this case than in any other open source project? Because Novell and MS are both involved (although only Novell directly)? I'm just not ready to take that as proof of poison.
A higher level of caution does not justify the baseless accusations present in the slashdot summary.
This module was first documented a year ago from what I can tell. See the history on this wiki page: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/VBA [openoffice.org]
While it seems that Novell does maintain and develop the code now, I'm sure somebody familiar with the ooo-build repository can track down the original author(s).
I'll Wait. (Score:1)
Cut the crap (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.leonard-ritter.com/)
Require a Developer's Certificate of Origin (Score:4, Interesting)
(http://billposer.org/)
Presumably the best defense against claims of stolen code is to do what the Linux kernel folks are doing and require contributors to certify that they have the right to provide the code. Here are the current rules [lwn.net] for submitting code for the kernel, and here is the Developer's Certificate of Origin [osdl.org]. Significant contributions should also be well publicized so that anyone claiming infringment is forced to bring it up soon, before people come to rely on it. In this case, it would then be Novell's problem, not the community's, if Microsoft claims that the code is theirs.
Non-Article (Score:1)
So therefore we have not a copyright issue at all, but a software patent issue. Let the patent discussion begin!
VBA? Feh.... (Score:1)
(https://openqabal.dev.java.net/ | Last Journal: Saturday October 14 2006, @01:51AM)
Re:VBA? Feh.... (Score:4, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Saturday November 30 2002, @08:32PM)
If MS is contemplating a lawsuit (nothing in TFA indicates that), it's not because of one user coding up macros to make their lives easier. MS doesn't make (much) money from individual users, they make their money on corporations, some of which have an infrastructure investment in Excel macros (I know, I know, it's a horrible idea... but it's true). Those macros represent a huge moment of inertia for an organization to overcome before they can switch to another spreadsheet-- that's why it's "cheaper" to pay the massive licensing fees for MS Office than to change to free software. Changing platforms requires planning, controlled conversion, and meticulous testing of code that does something that in many cases no one even remembers precisely. Many users don't even know they're running macros, they just know to 1) load the spreadsheet, 2) press Ctrl-X or something, and 3) type in some new numbers. That creates a very difficult situation for someone planning to change platforms.
If OOo includes transparent VBA support, which can be demonstrated to be reliable, much of that inertia is overcome. MS doesn't care about an individual coder who wants to write spreadsheet macros, whether they're in VBA or Haskell or Snobol or RPG-- they've already lost those users. It is very much in their interest to keep those 50-seat (or 20,000-seat) user licenses coming in. And protecting that revenue stream will pay for a lot of lawyers.
Paranoid Slashdotters Strike! Film at 11! (Score:1)
Secondly, the Slashdot post seems to be confirming that the open source community has no way of validating code, and blindly accepts any code offered, assuming that there's no patent infringing code in it.
Good job, FSF. You've managed to do what Darl couldn't-- Completely shatter the open source community, and turn them against themselves. Bravo!
It is time (Score:1)
Do it now while there's still time. Reject any code coming out of Novell.
They could have been poisoning the well for months and months before this deal was made public.
Microsoft is like the dragon. (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.slashdot.org/)
What happens? (Score:3, Interesting)
(http://www.codemonkeyramblings.com/)
Not surprising (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://emptymatter.org/)
"How will this possibly screw us later?"
Get used to these responses, it's the new Novell.
So... (Score:2, Troll)
It's amazing how one of the most wonderful news I've heard in months can become FUD. Wake up: Patents already existed before the novell-MS pact. Microsoft has been able to sue companies for years. Getting VBA compatibility is a Good Thing. I only can thank Novell for this code.
A working solution for the problem (Score:2, Interesting)
boycott Novell.
Make them understand that we do not accept the deal they've made,
regardless of whether it complies or not with GPLv2.
For upstream people:
reject their patches, regardless of the content.
Reject their feature requests.
Create new bug report state in trackers:
"WAITING for submitter to cancel cancerous deal with Microsoft".
For Novell management:
cancel the deal with Microsoft and tell us how much you are sorry.
For Novell engineers:
protest with management, and if you are left unheard eventually start
looking for alternatives.
For users:
if you are using Suse, move away. Try other distributions, there are
better ones btw.
Let Novell know that you do not want to use Suse anymore because of their deal.
Novell has put all other distributions in danger, let us not let them get away with it.
Anonymous Coward.
Please Microsoft, not THAT obious !!! (Score:2)
(http://www.webgeekworld.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday April 27 2006, @07:47AM)
2 days earlier novell gig, then 'linux owes us' 1 days ago, and now, this.
Its TOO obvious to fool anyone, even supreme court judges who are totally inaware of i.t. technology.
One thing they missed (Score:1)
If you can drink wine, OOo this is fud (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.process64.com/)
Anyway not that I think any of these will face any problems,
1. Anti-Trust - It will be difficult for MS to pull of anything close to killing a small competitor out of business using patents.
2. Massive attrition at Microsoft - All things being equal, people tend to work for saner, lesser-evil companies. There is a certain pride in it, and I don't fancy a lot of people saying - Yeah I work for SCO! (I just dug this interesting article from Paul Graham about MS Patents [paulgraham.com])
3. MS has benefited from interoperability, and cross-technology support for years (Remember how Word had Word perfect emulation modes and shortcuts). I don't think patents cover those APIs too.
4. And piss off the large clients??
5. Total loss of good-will and PR disaster.
6. Can OIN (Open Innovation Network) patents be used against Microsoft?
7. Only a tiny fraction of Mono and OOo will ever fall under the patenttotine, and those will no doubt be re-written and re-implemented the same weekend.
Odd behavior from MSFT is the norm (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.dangercollie.com/music/)
If MSFT is going to try and litigate Linux they're going to try it with or without Novell. OpenOffice is compatible with a lot of file formats, including PDF export. If this was some attempt to poison an open source code base it's both clumsy and ineffective.
Unless Ballmer is completely stupid...and I wouldn't necessarily rule that out...then you have to believe the SCO litigation-by-proxy is seen internally as a huge, embarrassing mistake. If anything the whole fiaSCO actually highlighted how strong Linux is from an IP standpoint. SCO demonstrated that attacking Linux is bad business, and the reaction of the open source to community to an attack from MSFT could be even more extreme.
In my opinion Ballmer is bluffing. It would be stupid for MSFT to launch a direct attack against Linux. More likely this is their own clumsy way of trying to cut a deal, handicapped by naturally poor corporate execution and their ego driven CEO. You don't have to look any farther than Zune to see another glaring example of ego inspired faltering execution. Ballmer wanted to grab a piece of the iPod market because he doesn't like Jobs and had they been anyone but MSFT they might have succeeded. This same group isn't going to be any more effective or execute any better against Linux. So don't give them the satisfaction of going off the handle and every bit of drool that comes out of Ballmer's mouth.
No need to fear -- and what M$ is really up to (Score:3, Interesting)
Microsoft business is good sales are up but that is because the market is growing, others like Apple and Linux are takeing a part of the share M$ is used to haveing about 98% the writing on the wall says it won't stay that way unless something is done. Think about it we are rapidly approching the point where everyone has a PC or many and business have about as many as they know what to do with. Thats not to say people and orgainzations won't be always buying computer they will but it will be mostly a retire replace thing rather then a 1 + 1 = 2 like it has been the last 2 decades. Microsoft wants to keep 98% share. They know how to deal with traditional competitors. They can't deal with everyone and their brother producing different but mostly compatable platforms and more then the business modle IBM had around the PC could deal with the clone market. They sure can deal with RH and SUSE though. They are trying to play a patent game and ensure a finite number of traitional large corporate competition so they can do what they have always done; give away enough of their crack to get people hooked and at the same time starve the competition for revenue.
If M$ can kill the Linux market outside of Novell watch for windows to be suddenly free(as in beer) and come with free as in beer support. M$ can give windows away; after all they have other products to sell for you to run on top of it. Most people will then see windows as cheak as suse not understadning that with suse they'd be getting all the other stuff like web,sql,office apps, to and pick windows because its familiar. That is what M$ wants; they want to be able to kill linux they way they killed Netscape, Netware and countless others. They can't manage that right now because with all sorts of basically not for profit distros, debian and small commecial distros that are selected by very specific people for specific reasons like slackware. There is no clear revenue stream to attack. The mass of people useing and developing the software remains big enough that it continues to improve and inovate to the point where it becomes dangerous to them and they cant stop it.
Think about GNU/Linux is not quite but almost good enough to push replace windows in just about every desktop and server space it owns save a few without much pain. It does not need to be as good as windows just good enough and cheaper. Now even when those conditions are reached its still not going to be a big Linux title wave; in fact nothing at all will happen because people generally like the status quo. Ahh but what if a KILL APP was found something that you just can't do with windows but you could do easily with GNU/Linux. I don't know what that would be but at that point the war would be won over night. Windows would be a legacy platform like netware. That is what they fear.
In the mean time though M$ played their cards wrong and so did Novel. Novel was thinking this little patent game with M$ could effectivly make them a Monopoly or part of a Oligopoly in the Linux market which while not huge would be better from their point of view then the current situation. Novel is wrong of couse because if it worked out that the developers would dry up. Nobody wants to write free code for Novel. They want to write code that the whole community can use. They do it because its fun to have your name on something that lots of people depend on. They do it because its a fun challenge and it produces a useful product for them and friends. They do it because they benifited from and OS project and feel they should give something back. They do it to show off their skills and make themsevels more marketable. They do it for all sorts of ot
VBA code from MS? (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://slashdot.org/~lpq | Last Journal: Saturday August 25, @05:30PM)
Can the other distros (which the article claims had previously added the code) add MS compatibility code and have no problem, but when Novell adds the same code, they'll be accused of adding MS-supplied code?
Hopefully Novell will clarify their standing with MS such that any code released by Novell under the GPL is truly free GPL code.
Another area is the restriction that Suse development is limited to hobbyist development only. Commercial developers get no protections when using GPL code from SuSE. Sounds like SuSE may have shot themselves in the foot.
-l
basic programming needed? (Score:1)
(Last Journal: Friday September 17 2004, @04:10PM)
I mean it's a good compromise to allow the code to operate for those users who need it (providing the features to help F/OSS), and when/if the posion pill is used, just replace it with something more FOSS--as if the need is great someone will find an alternative to get things working [with another piece of code]--that's the beauty of FOSS: there's always a way out. This is interface programming 101. Just as long as it's not tightly coupled to the main baseline/tree, there's nothing to worry about unless some lawyer wants to twist the facts (death to all lawyers as someone said?)
Transition from closed source to open source isn't as simple as a 'throw the old stuff away' switch over scenario. If it is, then we've been watching too many hollywood movies.
fork Ooo from here on (Score:2, Insightful)
(http://jajadatzalwel.blogspot.com/ | Last Journal: Tuesday July 31, @04:41PM)
exploit (Score:1)
Be careful - MS has patents on visual basic (Score:2)
http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2005/02/22/real_sla
Sure this may be in other distros but Microsoft probably already considers those distros as in violation of their patents, now that it's in Suse, when they start raising a stink about this patent, people can have the option to switch to Suse.
Microsoft is being extremely evil and Suse is just playing ball with them. I'm sure the developers at Suse justify this, who can blame them, without Microsoft's money they would be unemployed. But this patch should be looked at as an omen, nothing less. Be careful, this is part of Microsoft's strategy. At this point it's a game of chess for Ballmer to see how he can abuse OSS. At this phase in the game he's planting seeds.
What's this have to do with Linux? (Score:2)
How is this a move in the "Linux owes us" game? OO.o isn't particular to Linux. OO.o itself may be running afoul of MS (and others') patents, but this has nothing to do with Linux.
Why not ask Microsoft? (Score:2)
"We've recieved this piece of code and will include this into our software. If you see any problems with this, get back to us within 90 days or we will take your silence as an acceptance and a promise not to take any action against us, legal or otherwise". Or something like that.
Ignorance and news title (Score:2)
(http://www.eufinity.com/)
Please, please, please... STOP. You're hurting us.
We all know ignorance spurs fear. And granted, we should all somehow fear this Novell/MS deal. But a sensationalist headline like this, is not just F, it's not just U and it's not just D. It's a capital I, of Ignorance. PLEASE, if you're going to post something that is going to be read by thousands of people, at least try look into it before you slam a title like this.
If you actually looked around a bit, you'd see that what has been submitted is something that has been lying around for some months now, which is actually already present in other distros. I know this is Slashdot... but again, this IS Slashdot, and it is not acceptable.
Foot, meet Bullet (Score:2)
(http://slashdot.org/)
The public follows the geeks: it's part of the trickle-down effect. When the geeks decide they've put up with enough bullshit and that it's time to move to a real OS, Microsoft is going to go bye-bye.
And frankly, I could not care less. Fuck Microsoft: it's been incompetent and lazy and evil for about ten years longer than it should have.
Microsoft has jumped the shark.
Unmentioned reason why the story is moot (Score:1)
Yes, this is a review, but some of you guys may have not thought long enough about the smoke and mirrors a