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Ballmer Says Linux "Infringes Our Intellectual Property"

Posted by Zonk on Fri Nov 17, 2006 08:38 AM
from the oh-it-is-so-on-now dept.
Stony Stevenson writes "In comments confirming the open-source community's suspicions, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer Thursday declared his belief that the Linux operating system infringes on Microsoft's intellectual property." From the ComputerWorld article: "In a question-and-answer session after his keynote speech at the Professional Association for SQL Server (PASS) conference in Seattle, Ballmer said Microsoft was motivated to sign a deal with SUSE Linux distributor Novell earlier this month because Linux 'uses our intellectual property' and Microsoft wanted to 'get the appropriate economic return for our shareholders from our innovation.'" His exact wording is available at the Seattle Intelligencer, which has a transcript of the interview. Groklaw had an article up Wednesday giving some perspective on the Novell/Microsoft deal. Guess we'll have something to talk about in 2007, huh?

Related Stories

[+] Microsoft To Announce Linux Partnership 534 comments
Carl Bialik from WSJ writes "Microsoft is entering into an unusual partnership with Novell that gives a boost to Linux, people familiar with the companies tell WSJ.com. From the article: 'Under the pact, which isn't final, Microsoft will offer sales support of Suse Linux, a version of the operating system sold by Novell. The two companies have also agreed to develop technologies to make it easier for users to run both Suse Linux and Microsoft's Windows on their computers. The two companies are expected to announce details of their plan today at a press conference in San Francisco. In addition, Microsoft won't assert rights over patents over software technology that may be incorporated into Suse Linux, the people said. Businesses that use Linux have long worried that Microsoft would one day file patent infringement suits against sellers of the rival software.'"
[+] Is the Microsoft/Novell Deal a Litigation Bomb? 342 comments
mpapet writes "According to WINE developer Tom Wickline, the Microsoft/Novell deal for Suse support may one day control commercial customers' use of Free Software. Is this the end of commercial OSS developers who are not a part of the Microsoft/Suse pact?" From the article: "Wickline said that the pact means that there will now be a Microsoft-blessed path for such people to make use of Open Source ... 'A logical next move for Microsoft could be to crack down on 'unlicensed Linux' and 'unlicensed Free Software,' now that it can tell the courts that there is a Microsoft-licensed path. Or they can just passively let that threat stay there as a deterrent to anyone who would use Open Source without going through the Microsoft-approved Novell path,' Wickline said." Bruce Perens dropped a line to point out that most of the content actually comes from his post.
[+] Microsoft/Novell Deal Could Create Two-Tier Linux Market 375 comments
Rob writes writes to mention a Computer Business Review article about the recent Microsoft/Novell Linux deal. Article author Matthew Aslet warns that while some may see the announcement as a step forward, it may ultimately be very divisive for the Linux community. From the article: "Microsoft made it clear that only SUSE users and developers, as well as unsalaried Linux developers, are protected. 'Let me be clear about one thing, we don't license our intellectual property to Linux because of the way Linux licensing GPL framework works, that's not really a possibility,' said Microsoft chief executive, Steve Ballmer. 'Novell is actually just a proxy for its customers, and it's only for its customers,' he added. 'This does not apply to any forms of Linux other than Novell's SUSE Linux. And if people want to have peace and interoperability, they'll look at Novell's SUSE Linux. If they make other choices, they have all of the compliance and intellectual property issues that are associated with that.'"
[+] Novell Gets $348 Million From Microsoft 308 comments
An anonymous reader writes, "Novell has published additional details about its agreements with Microsoft concerning Windows and Linux interoperability and patents. It seems the company is receiving an up-front payment of $348 million from Microsoft, for SLES subscription certificates and for patent cross-licensing. Microsoft will make an upfront payment to Novell of $240 million for SLES subscription 'certificates' that Microsoft can use, resell, or distribute over the term of the agreement. Regarding the patent cooperation agreement, Microsoft will make an up-front net payment to Novell of $108 million, and Novell will make ongoing payments totaling at least $40 million over five years to Microsoft."
[+] Dvorak On Microsoft/Novell Deal 218 comments
zaxios writes, "John C. Dvorak has weighed in on the recent Novell-Microsoft pact. Among his insights: 'Microsoft has been leery of doing too much with Linux because of all the weirdness with the licenses and the possibility that one false move would make a Microsoft product public domain at worst, or subject to the GPL at best.' But now, 'the idea is to create some sort of code that is jammed into Linux and whose sole purpose is to let some proprietary code run under Linux without actually "touching" Linux in any way that would subject the proprietary code to the GPL.' According to Dvorak, it's only a matter of time before Linux is 'cracked' by Microsoft, meaning Microsoft figures out a way to run proprietary code on it."
[+] A 5-Year Deal With Microsoft To Dump Novell/SUSE 174 comments
Nicholas Petreley writes, "Wake up little SUSE, wake up. No, that's not good enough. Wake up SUSE customers, wake up. Novell is jeopardizing the future of Linux for its own short-term rewards. If you want to see Linux flourish, let alone survive, after Novell's five year deal with Microsoft expires, I suggest we make an alternative five-year deal with Microsoft. In this case, our part of the deal is to spend the next five minutes, months, or years migrating away from every shred of Novell/SUSE software in our home, office, or enterprise."
[+] Eben Moglen To Scrutinize Novell-Microsoft Deal 102 comments
An anonymous reader writes "Novell is providing Eben Moglen's Software Freedom Law Center with confidential access to the legal terms of the Novell-Microsoft partnership, allowing to organization to verify if the deal is compatible with the GPL2 and GPL3 licenses. Moglen in the past has alleged that the patent license between the two companies could be in violation with section 7 of the GPL. Novell on Tuesday published a document on its website, explaining that they circumvented the GPL provisions by providing a patent license to the end user rather than between the two companies."
[+] Novell Responds To Microsoft's IP Claims 317 comments
Azul writes "Ron Hovsepian, Novell's CEO, has posted an open letter to the Community, where he explicitly states Novell's disagreement with Steve Ballmer's claims of Linux infringing on Microsoft's intellectual property. From the letter: 'We disagree with the recent statements made by Microsoft on the topic of Linux and patents. Importantly, our agreement with Microsoft is in no way an acknowledgment that Linux infringes upon any Microsoft intellectual property. When we entered the patent cooperation agreement with Microsoft, Novell did not agree or admit that Linux or any other Novell offering violates Microsoft patents.'"
[+] Microsoft Taking Heat For Patent Stance 226 comments
Yesterday Novell released a statement disavowing Steve Ballmer's claim that Linux infringes Microsoft's IP. Linux-watch.com reports that Microsoft quickly responded with a statement of its own that softened, but did not entirely back away from, Ballmer's claim (but the article offers no link to such a statement). xtaski writes, "Everyone took notice when Ballmer spewed forth FUD about Microsoft and Linux IP. Now CIOs are asking just what did Ballmer think he was doing? They are not fooled — but rather, a little angry. ComputerWorld covers the news including one CIO who says 'There were some applications I had been thinking about moving to a Microsoft platform, but this has now totally alienated me from Microsoft.'" And an anonymous reader points us to the statement by the Open Invention Network — whose investors include IBM, Novell, Sony, Red Hat, Philips and NEC — on the Microsoft-Novell agreement. From the statement: "OIN continues to support the Linux community's ability to collaborate and innovate. Through the accumulation of patents that may be used to shield the Linux environment, including users of Linux software, OIN has obviated the need for offers of protection from others."
[+] Novell "Forking" OpenOffice.org 370 comments
l2718 writes to mention that In the wake of their recent deal with Microsoft, Novell has announced a new version of OpenOffice.org which will support Microsoft's planned Office formal, Open XML. From the article: "The translators will be made available as plug-ins to Novell's OpenOffice.org product. Novell will release the code to integrate the Open XML format into its product as open source and submit it for inclusion in the OpenOffice.org project. As a result, end users will be able to more easily share files between Microsoft Office and OpenOffice.org, as documents will better maintain consistent formats, formulas and style templates across the two office productivity suites."
[+] Your Rights Online: Mr. Ballmer, Show Us the Code 462 comments
DigDuality writes "A new campaign, Showusthecode.com, requests every leader in the Linux world, and companies invested in Linux, to stand up and demand that Steve Ballmer show the world where Linux violates Microsoft's intellectual property. He has been making these claims since the Novell-Microsoft deal. If Microsoft answers this challenge — by May 1st — then Linux developers will be able to modify the code so that it remains 'free' software. If such infringing code doesn't exist, we will have called Microsoft's bluff. And if the campaign garners enough attention and if Steve Ballmer maintains silence, then the community and companies behind Linux can take the silence for the admission that it is."
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  • Alright, own up (Score:5, Funny)

    by LiquidCoooled (634315) on Friday November 17 2006, @08:39AM (#16882772)
    Who merged the Linux Genuine Advantage code into the tree?
    Come on, speak up - I know it was one of you.
  • Samba (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Ice Wewe (936718) on Friday November 17 2006, @08:40AM (#16882784)
    This coming from the guy that's requiring SMB2 in Vista so that people using Samba on Linux server's can't use them for file storage.
    • Re:Samba by Anonymous Coward (Score:3) Friday November 17 2006, @08:47AM
    • Re:Samba (Score:5, Interesting)

      by udderly (890305) * on Friday November 17 2006, @09:00AM (#16883014)
      Is it just me or does it sound like MS is going to charge a per seat charge for some enhanced ability to connect from a Windows machine to Linux servers? Or is it just straight blackmail for exemption for future litigation? Or both? I can't tell.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Samba by C-Shalom (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:48AM
      • Re:Samba (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Jason Earl (1894) on Friday November 17 2006, @10:19AM (#16884166)
        (http://jearl.0catch.com/)

        Actually, Microsoft's plan is even stupider than that. Microsoft wants to charge a per seat license for Linux users, but they aren't really offering enhanced interoperability. Novell and Red Hat are both going to include the same software. It's not like Novell is going to have its own version of Samba, for instance. The primary difference is that Novell customers are going to be able to "sleep easy" because Novell is paying Microsoft so that Microsoft won't sue Novell's Linux customers.

        Microsoft isn't going to sue Red Hat's customers either, but that's only because suing Red Hat customers would be ridiculously foolish. At its heart the real issue is that Microsoft has such a poor relationship with its customers that many customers are worried that Microsoft will drag them into patent court. These customers are willing to pay money, not for any sort of patent license, but for a short term commitment from Microsoft that they won't be sued.

        Next thing you know Microsoft execs will be brutalizing school kids for their lunch money.

        The truly ironic bit is that Microsoft is not going to sue anyone over patents. Microsoft execs know that if they did this the various organizations that have a stake in the success of Linux (which is essentially everyone but Microsoft) would pay for a well-funded defense. Millions of dollars would be spent, and in the end the patents in question would either be shot down or removed from the Free Software product in question. Depending on who Microsoft chose to attack it could even trigger retaliation from other large players with huge patent repositories. What's more, Microsoft's patent aggression would start a wholesale migration away from Microsoft's technologies.

        If Microsoft started suing folks using its technology then its technology would become much less popular virtually overnight.

        This is why Microsoft has wisely chosen a middle road. Instead of actually taking people to court, it is simply going to threaten to take people to court and hope that they'll throw money Microsoft's way.

        [ Parent ]
        • OT: Lunch money (Score:4, Funny)

          by Captain Sarcastic (109765) * on Friday November 17 2006, @10:47AM (#16884706)
          Next thing you know Microsoft execs will be brutalizing school kids for their lunch money.


          That remark touches a nerve for me. There was a girl in my elementary school who kept taking my lunch money. Worse yet, she took it from other kids in the school.

          However, I was the first one to stand up to her, and tell her that she wasn't going to get MY money, and that I was going to keep it!

          So she told me to put my tray back, and turned to the next kid in line.

          But I could tell that I'd had some effect from the way she kept looking at me funny for the rest of the year, and the whispering of the other kids told me that I'd made an impression on them as well.

          [ Parent ]
          • Re:OT: Lunch money by rizzo420 (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @11:00AM
            • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
          • Re:OT: Lunch money (Score:4, Interesting)

            by Locutus (9039) on Friday November 17 2006, @11:42AM (#16885684)
            Microsoft has gone after "lunch money" before. When they were attempting to get as many school systems on Microsofts License 6 scheme, they used the BSA to trigger clauses in the Microsoft Windows EULA to force expensive audits on various school systems across the US. Many caved in and paid for MS License 6 instead of the 10's to 100's of thousands it would cost for th audit only to have a handful of illegal copies still cost them millions. But, a few fought back and dumped MS Windows for GNU/Linux and then started telling other school systems about it and how it was much cheaper than MS License 6 or the audit.

            Google for Oregon school Linux Microsoft BSA or similar terms and you should get some hits on the topic.

            Microsoft just might be forcing an 'event' in the market they really don't want to occur. The fact that they are even using the "L" word and signing/paying off a "L" word company is amazing enough and shows they are having a 'problem' with GNU/Linux and probably FOSS too. IMO.

            LoB
            [ Parent ]
          • Re:OT: Lunch money by Harry Coin (Score:3) Friday November 17 2006, @12:16PM
        • Re:Samba by treak007 (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @11:09AM
        • there is nothing to defend against by oohshiny (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @12:55PM
        • Re:Samba by Dracos (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @01:28PM
          • Re:Samba by Jason Earl (Score:3) Friday November 17 2006, @03:13PM
        • Samba's not it. Think SGI by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @02:18PM
        • all your lunch money is belong to MS by number6x (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @03:45PM
        • Re:Samba by soundvessel (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @04:08PM
        • Re:Samba by TemporalBeing (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @05:41PM
        • Re:Samba by non (Score:2) Saturday November 18 2006, @02:28AM
        • Re:Samba (Score:4, Informative)

          by jschrod (172610) <jschrod AT acm DOT org> on Friday November 17 2006, @11:56AM (#16885922)
          (http://www.schrod.org/)
          According to Novell, you don't buy any MS license when you buy SUSE. They say that there is no reason to because SUSE does not infringe on any MS patents, to their knowledge. They also promise to throw our any infringing code immediately, it it gets known, so there won't be cause for you licensing it from MS in the future.

          According to Novell, what you get is indemnification against potential lawsuits from MS, just like you do when you buy Linux from HP or other sources. (HP also indemnifies their own customers and not others. RH doesn't indemnify, it has a limited legal defense fund.)

          The main difference here is that it was publicized how Novell realized that indemnification, by a contract and payments to MS, and that way doesn't resonate well with many free software proponents.

          NOTE: I'm not connected to Novell, but I informed myself by reading the available publicized material.

          [ Parent ]
        • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Samba by Anonymous Coward (Score:3) Friday November 17 2006, @10:07AM
      • Re:Samba by asapien (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @11:19AM
        • Re:Samba by hendersj (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @11:38AM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
        • Re:Samba by chemaja (Score:1) Saturday November 18 2006, @04:49AM
      • Re:Samba by Zaiff Urgulbunger (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @11:48AM
      • Re:Samba by Lodragandraoidh (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @02:08PM
      • Microsoft and the EU by falconwolf (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @03:58PM
    • SMB2 in kernel, requires Vista AND longhorn by AgentPhunk (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @10:16AM
    • I beg you, somebody, explain this. by jotaeleemeese (Score:2) Monday November 20 2006, @08:02AM
    • Re:Samba by Lonewolf666 (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @11:12AM
    • 4 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Listen closely (Score:5, Funny)

    by deadhammer (576762) on Friday November 17 2006, @08:40AM (#16882788)
    That rhythmic thudding sound you hear is the sound of every computer professional on the planet simultaneously laughing their balls off.
  • Microsoft Brand FUD (Score:5, Insightful)

    "Novell pays us some money for the right to tell customers that anybody who uses SUSE Linux is appropriately covered," Ballmer said. This "is important to us, because [otherwise] we believe every Linux customer basically has an undisclosed balance-sheet liability."
    Do me a favor, disclose your 'undisclosed balance-sheet liability' and then we'll listen to you bitch about Linux.

    I haven't seen patent one infringed upon let alone a whole balance sheet's worth so you'll have to excuse me if I seem a bit pessimistic about you strong arming me into using SuSE.

    That's right, you can spin it anyway you want ... but what I see is that Novell just lost all their street cred by selling out to you. What they sold was their future in the open source community. Why do I have this strange view of it all? Well, because I have this sinking feeling that a year or two from now you're going to package some form of Linux (maybe with Windows maybe separately) and you aren't going to release the source code & you're going to earn a profit on supporting it. And people will be pissed and there will be a court case. But you'll hire a thousand and one lawyers and they'll show up and they'll point out to the judge that Linux kernel "infringed upon Windows anyway" and the deal you made with Novell only confirmed it and admitted that they were facing lawsuits from you. The whole time, there won't be any patents cited, no logic will be used but at the end of the day the judge, bless his computer ignorance, will probably agree with you and allow you to continue to release & profit from Linux. But that won't be enough, you'll go after ever user using non-Microsoft-mutated-SuSE Linux and sue every other Linux distro. If that's not your motive, why are you already issuing warnings to users of other distros?

    It's not just any old regular FUD, it's new improved Microsoft FUD.

    Enjoy your $500 million, Novell.
  • No need to wait for netcraft... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SlashDread (38969) on Friday November 17 2006, @08:41AM (#16882792)
    SuSE is dead.
  • I think you'll find... (Score:5, Funny)

    by tttonyyy (726776) on Friday November 17 2006, @08:41AM (#16882800)
    (http://www.cooldark.com/ | Last Journal: Monday April 26 2004, @05:31PM)
    Microsoft infringes on our patience sometimes, as well.
  • by A nonymous Coward (7548) * on Friday November 17 2006, @08:42AM (#16882812)
    If you want a job done right, do it yourself, eh Balmer? SCO just wasn't up to the task.
  • by MancunianMaskMan (701642) on Friday November 17 2006, @08:44AM (#16882840)
    GNU/Linux infringes on our IP
  • Surprised? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by bitserf (756357) on Friday November 17 2006, @08:44AM (#16882842)
    To quote South Park: Novell just got F'd in the A.
    • Re:Surprised? by pNutz (Score:3) Friday November 17 2006, @10:12AM
      • Re:Surprised? (Score:4, Insightful)

        Wouldn't it be nice if linux came in only 2 or 3 flavors... if you owned one of those flavors?

        I think you've found the genius of it: The problem for MS is that open source is so slippery. For instance, every time they turn around there's a new linux distribution, and they can become popular quickly - e.g. Ubuntu. If an open-source business goes under, it's code assets are still out there for any hobbysit or business to improve.

        But if there were only 2 or 3 legitimate flavours of Linux from large vendors, then those can be contained or attacked by conventional tactics. And the best thing is that the big Linux vendors won't object at first, since by going after their smaller competitors you're doing them a favour.
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:Surprised? by myowntrueself (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @04:48PM
      • Re:Surprised? by rufty_tufty (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @11:37AM
      • Re:Surprised? by multisync (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @11:59AM
        • Re:Surprised? by 10Ghz (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @12:17PM
      • Re:Surprised? by Locutus (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @12:21PM
      • Re:Surprised? by TheUser0x58 (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @01:23PM
        • Re:Surprised? by pNutz (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @01:46PM
          • Re:Surprised? by TheUser0x58 (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:06PM
      • Re:Surprised? by Rakarra (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @02:17PM
        • Re:Surprised? by pNutz (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @05:27PM
      • Re:Surprised? by soccerisgod (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @03:54PM
    • Re:Surprised? by tehshen (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @10:56AM
    • Re:Surprised? by ripcrd (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @02:09PM
      • Re:Surprised? by Zonk (troll) (Score:1) Saturday November 18 2006, @02:30AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Okay... (Score:5, Insightful)

    Pretty much any Linux geek will tell you that's a load of jibberish, not unlike the SCO case. But, should it come to Microsoft and Novell going to court over this, couldn't this still spell trouble for Novell? A lengthy trial isn't cheap (and neither are out-of-court settlements). And the worst case scenario - maybe this could even spell trouble for Linux itself? It certainly makes for some excellent FUD for Microsoft to feed to the CIOs and managers of the world.

    With Microsoft's track history, I wonder why people trust them at all. Especially when the stakes are high, like in this situation.
    • Re:Okay... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by walt-sjc (145127) on Friday November 17 2006, @08:57AM (#16882974)
      Oh, I believe that Linux (especially when you look at an entire distribution) DOES infringe on some MS patents. Wasn't it a year or so ago where 20 some odd MS patents were dug up by Linux proponents as a concern?

      I think a couple of things have been holding MS back however. IBM and THEIR patent war-chest, and the EU / DOJ with the anti-trust / abusive monopoly issue.

      MS wouldn't go after individuals in any case, they would go after businesses.

      We shall see!
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Okay... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2006, @09:22AM (#16883294)
        Well said. It's likely that every non-trivial piece of software infringes on some patent somewhere. But there are two reasons nobody wants a patent war:
        • It would be carnage. The only certain outcome would be lawyers getting rich.
        • Software patents are still disallowed in Europe, but there is intense lobbying to get them introduced. A US software patent war would show what a disaster they are.
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:Okay... by dosquatch (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @10:05AM
          • Re:Okay... (Score:4, Interesting)

            by betterunixthanunix (980855) on Friday November 17 2006, @11:17AM (#16885252)
            Except that the Linux community would be damaged also. A patent war would mean LAWSUITS, and that would mean that kernel.org would start received cease-and-desist letters (and possibly being forced to temporarily follow them while cases are resolved), and the hundreds of other mirrors would probably face the same thing. The onslaught of hundreds of patent cases would be like the legal version of a DOS attack, crippling the ability of Linux developers to develop, potentially wrecking the thousands of small projects out there (just by scaring developers away during the chaos)...it's mutually assured destruction. And the aftermath wouldn't be much better -- software would be gutted left and right, left half-functional because the other half was already patented by somebody else. It would be like GIF on a global scale.


            I know, this is where everybody says, "No, GNU is protected, at best there are a dozen patent issues to be resolved..."

            [ Parent ]
            • Re:Okay... by aaronl (Score:3) Friday November 17 2006, @11:42AM
              • Re:Okay... by Zaiff Urgulbunger (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @12:38PM
              • Re:Okay... by killjoe (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @01:37PM
              • Re:Okay... by Zaiff Urgulbunger (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @02:39PM
              • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
            • Re:Okay... by dosquatch (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @12:59PM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Okay... by 14CharUsername (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:34AM
        • Re:Okay... by symbolic (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @10:07AM
          • Re:Okay... by kimvette (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @11:53AM
      • Re:Okay... by WindBourne (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:41AM
        • Re:Okay... by walt-sjc (Score:3) Friday November 17 2006, @10:34AM
          • Re:Okay... by ZachPruckowski (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @11:59AM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Okay... by LordOfTheNoobs (Score:3) Friday November 17 2006, @09:56AM
        • Re:Okay... by RiffRafff (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @12:43PM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Okay... by CaspianXI (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @10:28AM
      • Re:Okay... by Skrynesaver (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @10:57AM
      • This is bad for everyone by DragonHawk (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @05:21PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Okay... (Score:5, Funny)

      by chrismcdirty (677039) on Friday November 17 2006, @08:58AM (#16882978)
      (http://gumbercules.net/)
      So what I'm gathering from this is that it's going to be a behemoth of a battle between IBM and MS, with hopefully many lawyers dying in the middle.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Okay... (Score:5, Insightful)

      I think this will certainly spell trouble for Linux. Not "the end of Linux" - but certainly trouble. Mostly it comes down to the fact that, when MS gets around to sueing people, some retarded judge is going to look at Novell signing a deal with MS as "admission of guilt" and - while it might not win the case for MS - it will lend a lot more creadance to their FUD for a lot of people.
      As for Novell, I don't think Microsoft will take them to court, but I don't think they need to. I don't really know of anyone who was supportive of the Novell/Microsoft deal- and very few were even willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. This whole thing is going to really deamonize Novell in the eyes of the open source community. The way I see it, and a lot of other people too, is that basically Novell had the idea that Microsoft was going to start suing people over Linux, and rather than stand up for Linux and the community, they decided to become another MS lapdog.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Okay... by _Sprocket_ (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @11:32AM
        • Re:Okay... by mikesd81 (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @12:27PM
      • Re:Okay... by kilgortrout (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @11:54AM
      • Re:Okay... by Decaff (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @12:31PM
      • Re:Okay... CALL THEIR BLUFF by fallen1 (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @02:57PM
      • Re:Okay... by quill_n_brew (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @08:04PM
      • Nonsense. by jotaeleemeese (Score:2) Monday November 20 2006, @08:41AM
    • Re:Okay... by Sloppy (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:52AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Okay... by ynohoo (Score:3) Friday November 17 2006, @09:57AM
      • Re:Okay... by bfields (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @12:49PM
    • It wont be microsoft/novell fighting by nurb432 (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @10:28AM
    • Re:Okay... by DragonWriter (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @12:38PM
  • M$ takes and does not appreciate by cdn-programmer (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @08:46AM
  • SCO did it! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by hackstraw (262471) * on Friday November 17 2006, @08:47AM (#16882864)
    (http://www.spamgourmet.com/)

    But seriously, when the first SCO thing came about, the Linux people said, "We don't want to infringe on anyone's IP, so tell us where it we are infringing, and we will rewrite the code."

    Same applies here. Open source takes a little of the fun out of these things, now doesn't it?

    • Re:SCO did it! by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:14AM
    • Re:SCO did it! (Score:5, Insightful)

      I think the difference will be that SCO was claiming their actual code was in the kernel, while MS is claiming that it "infringes on their IP".
      For all we know MS has some patent on Operating Systems or taking input, processing it, and giving output, or the color blue, or something.
      That's the problem with software patents, as it stands right now, if Linux really is infringing on some MS patent then the functionality will have to be removed, not simply re-implemented in a different way. If this patent is on something core to the operation of Linux, then it could be very bad.
      Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Linux does violate some MS patent- not because the kernel developers have been stealing from MS, but because software patents are far to broad in nature. The best possible scenario would be that Linux is violating some MS patents and that is used as a stepping stone in order to reorganize that entire software patent system so it's not so stupid. More likely is that either Linux isn't violating any MS patents, or it is but MS doesn't do anything about it in court because they are afraid of having to fight IBM on one side, and Antitrust lawsuits from the EU (and possibly the US, though we saw how effective that was the last time) on another side.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:SCO did it! by CaptainZapp (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:40AM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:SCO did it! by Cruise_WD (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:48AM
        • Re:SCO did it! by CmdrGravy (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @11:11AM
      • Re:SCO did it! by leuk_he (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:53AM
      • Re:SCO did it! by A beautiful mind (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @12:00PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:SCO did it! by kibbylow (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:16AM
      • Re:SCO did it! by a_n_d_e_r_s (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:32AM
        • Re:SCO did it! by walt-sjc (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @10:46AM
      • Re:SCO did it! by CmdrGravy (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @10:42AM
  • Company motto (Score:4, Insightful)

    by edwardpickman (965122) on Friday November 17 2006, @08:47AM (#16882868)
    If you can't beat 'em sue 'em.
    • Re:Company motto by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:19AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • worst case solution by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @08:49AM
  • Open Source Drives the Technical Economy by xzvf (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @08:50AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Put up or Shut up (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Cadallin (863437) on Friday November 17 2006, @08:51AM (#16882906)
    Alright, enough of this bullshit. Isn't there some kind of Libel suit that can be filed about this kind of garbage? I know I, as a private citizen can't go around telling newspapers that the Coca-Cola company kills a kitten for every can of drink they sell, without getting sued nine ways from breakfast. Why is Microsoft any different? If they've got something, let's see it, if not, can't they be forced to stop spreading FUD on pain big nasty fine-y death? Surely Redhat, and the other corporate Linux entities have some interest in trying this?
  • BSD too (Score:5, Funny)

    by Lord_Slepnir (585350) on Friday November 17 2006, @08:53AM (#16882926)
    (Last Journal: Thursday June 05 2003, @09:57AM)
    Ballmer added later in the speech "You'll notice that BSD also infringes on our Intellectual Property. You'll notice that the BSD network stack is identical to the one Microsoft created. Anyone who thinks otherwise has been brainwashed by the Great Satan [freebsd.org]"
    • Re:BSD too by ssj152 (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @10:35AM
      • Re:BSD too by iamdrscience (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @11:02AM
        • Re:BSD too by ssj152 (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @11:11AM
          • Re:BSD too by ssj152 (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @11:14AM
      • Re:BSD too by Xtravar (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @11:17AM
      • Re:BSD too by rufty_tufty (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @12:11PM
      • Re:BSD too by SillySlashdotName (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @01:25PM
        • Re:BSD too by ssj152 (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @05:38PM
          • Yes. by The Creator (Score:1) Saturday November 18 2006, @05:27AM
            • Re:Yes. by ssj152 (Score:1) Saturday November 18 2006, @05:10PM
              • More yes. by The Creator (Score:1) Sunday November 19 2006, @06:23AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • So what happens (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Epeeist (2682) on Friday November 17 2006, @08:53AM (#16882928)
    (http://www.murorum.demon.co.uk/)
    When it is shown to be Mono that is infringing?
  • I'm always a little suspicious by 91degrees (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @08:54AM
  • I'll bite (Score:4, Interesting)

    "Linux operating system"
    Ballmer's meat puppet McBride couldn't win in court on the specious SCO claims about foreign code polluting the Linux kernel.
    Not clear how, if Windows code had been magically grafted into the Linux kernel, that such Frankencode would a) work and b) go unnoticed. Linus himself is the ulitmate commiter to the kernel.org sources, no?
    As a society, we need to stigmatize people who say such wrongheaded things in public, and clueless publications that circulate such tripe.
    • Re:I'll bite by Alsee (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:51AM
      • Re:I'll bite by jamstar7 (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @12:40PM
    • Code? by nurb432 (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:56AM
    • Re:I'll bite by kfg (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:57AM
      • Re:I'll bite by smitty_one_each (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @10:27AM
        • Re:I'll bite by kfg (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @11:01AM
    • Re:I'll bite by somersault (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @11:40AM
    • You don't fucking get it. by jotaeleemeese (Score:2) Monday November 20 2006, @09:04AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • BAHAHAHA!!!! by dubiago (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @08:55AM
  • Patent numbers and licence fees ? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by quiberon2 (986274) on Friday November 17 2006, @08:56AM (#16882964)
    Microsoft need to be specific; what are the patent numbers, which countries are they valid in, and what is the licence fee that Microsoft would like from an individual user ?

    Without that essential information, Microsoft are behaving in a commercially-inappropriate way. Intimidating and destructive to creativity.

    I need the chance to way either that the patent does not apply where I live; or that there is prior art; or that I will do something in a different way. Or to find a patent of mine (or of my employer's) that they would like to cross-licence. I also need to know when the patent expires.

  • by kan0r (805166) on Friday November 17 2006, @08:56AM (#16882966)
    (http://strace.org/kaners)
    "Talk is cheap, show me the code!"
  • it appears that with the passing years the microsoft top brass is getting old, and surprisingly losing their sanity before their due time.

    arent they already aware that eu is bashing them because of their similar behaviour ?

    do they think that eu will just let them force people to use their own 'partner''s distro just like that ?

    i can see fines raining down like hell.
  • is this going to force a fork? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by hedrick (701605) on Friday November 17 2006, @09:00AM (#16883008)
    With this license agreement, Novell has a license to put MS patented technology into their Linux. Is it safe to permit Novell engineers to submit code to common Linux repositories? It seems to me that they would need to certify that none of their code contains any of the MS IP that they now have access to. Unless MS is willing to identify which portions of SuSE are covered by their patents, this could be difficult.
  • Better = Infringement ? by wahman143 (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:00AM
  • Damn, worst scenario happens... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Pecisk (688001) on Friday November 17 2006, @09:00AM (#16883024)
    I hoped that Novell/MS deal was really something meaningful, not yet another PR/Marketing stunt from Microsoft. Putting all that "protection racket" bullshit aside, which I can buy a little bit, this Balmer speech asks for more serious investigation, because it just roars "antitrust".
  • only in the USA by mmjcon147 (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:01AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Phase 2 Engaged. by UnknowingFool (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:03AM
  • The coming war (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 17 2006, @09:03AM (#16883058)
    It all makes sense - MS is starting to worry. Not about the "boom in linux in just a few years" - that has been "just a few years" for over a decade now. What they are worried about is the "Big War" on the very immediate horizon. Computing is about to undergo a huge revolution.

    Now that (as far as a lot of the top end guys at MS are concerned) Vista is out of the door they are looking at what is next. Customers (home, but most especially business) are not going to pay for another OS - many might not even buy Vista. There is little else MS can put into an OS that sells - stability and modularisation don't sell. They tried the "eye candy" route for Vista - because if they didn't it wouldn't sell one copy. The thing is they can't do the same thing again "Windows Corumo - just another coat of paint on the same OS" - nobody will buy it.

    The future? Subscription based economics - they don't have to produce another OS - they just continually charge for the current one. That too goes for MS Office etc.

    Why the current turn by MS - because linux really does cause them difficulties in that business model. $30 per month for windows or $0 for a flavour of linux.

    The big battle is ahead - the business model that has held firm with computers (both software and hardware) over the past 20 years is being broken up. This can be proven in the easiest way imaginable. Ask yourself this question. As a member of the "bulk" of computer users (ie not high end gamers or 3D designers - home "write an email and watch a dvd"'ers or business "write a spreadsheet or create a presentation"er's) - why would you *want* to buy a new machine/new OS? - the old one does everything just fine - super fast and relatively trouble free. That has not been the case for the past 20 years - it is now.
  • What IP? by tsa (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:03AM
    • Re:What IP? by teh_chrizzle (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @11:41AM
  • Fermat's Last IP Infringement (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Ada_Rules (260218) on Friday November 17 2006, @09:04AM (#16883068)
    (Last Journal: Wednesday February 16 2005, @11:33PM)
    I have discovered the most interesting proof that Microsoft has infringed on MY intellectual property. Unfortunately, this web space is too small to contain it.

    This is getting really old and although many here will probably disagree, it will eventually have an impact. I can just hear my legal department now "We keep hearing case after case of Linux infringing on someone's IP. We better ban it. Microsoft is a big secure company that would never do anything like that and if they did, there is no way the effects of it could ever impact the end user"...Oh wait.. .. Scratch that. [com.com]

  • Winning quote (Score:5, Funny)

    by spellraiser (764337) on Friday November 17 2006, @09:05AM (#16883084)
    (Last Journal: Wednesday February 14 2007, @09:49AM)

    Quoth Ballmer:

    At the end of the day for basically the whole 18, 19 years that we've been pursuing the server and enterprise opportunity, our number one competitor in the data center for new applications has been Unix. Unix, Unix, Unix, Unix.

    So they need lots of developers, developers, developers, developers to keep up ...

  • This is a good thing, actually... gon bluescreen by gd23ka (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:06AM
  • With the monopolist pressure they are forcing my relatives, my employers, my contractees, my government to use their own software and wont let them bail out, limiting me on what i can or cant do with my audio&visual equipment in my own house, increasingly deciding what i can or cannot see on the internet, oppressing my open source community, suing people to the extent of harrassment, causing my relatives, friends, close ones to get into pain over their lacking&incapable&insecure softare and me to run fix-up errands for them, trying to funnel cash into decision makers to influence political decisions against my democratic wishes.

    In short, they are using me and all the people i know for their own personal profit against their wishes.

    i request that microsoft cease and desist immediately
  • How Embarrassing by blacknblu (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:09AM
  • Linux is not an OS by Nikademus (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:09AM
  • What Patents? by SpaceTaxi (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:10AM
  • Which M$ IP is this idiot talking about? by Eggplant62 (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:12AM
  • Pirates O' The Valley (Score:5, Funny)

    by Tarlus (1000874) on Friday November 17 2006, @09:13AM (#16883178)
    (http://tarlus.homeip.net:12345/)
    Hey, Steve, Apple of the 1980's called. They want their reactions to your OS stealing their ideas back.
  • So what's the big deal? by ivoras (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:13AM
  • OK, Microsoft, it's official. The war is ON. by OmniGeek (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:13AM
  • Micronopoly by hypoxide (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:15AM
  • Interoperability (Score:4, Insightful)

    by SpaghettiPattern (609814) on Friday November 17 2006, @09:16AM (#16883222)
    Interoperability... Are they are putting in decent VT100 terminal support for a mere few 100 M$ ? Sure.
  • Let MS prove their claims in a Court of Law! by redstar427 (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:21AM
  • What if it does? Seriously. by Kyaphas (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:21AM
  • Put up or shut up... by GeekWithGuns (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:21AM
  • Boom! by Sounder40 (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:26AM
  • Ballmer's just a blowhard and a bully... by Panaqqa (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:28AM
  • Put up or shutup Ballmer.. by tgatliff (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:30AM
    • Pure FUD by AusIV (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @10:51AM
      • Re:Pure FUD by tgatliff (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @12:33PM
  • Well, that explains it! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Russ Nelson (33911) on Friday November 17 2006, @09:30AM (#16883386)
    (http://russnelson.com/)
    Ahhhhh, so Microsoft owns IP that's in Linux, eh? So that explains why they paid Novell All That Much Money.
  • Red Hat by jmyers (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:31AM
  • Bluffing With Scare Tactics by organgtool (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:32AM
  • Perfect timing by styryx (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:32AM
  • Shared source? by 192939495969798999 (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:33AM
  • Which bits and who's OS .. by rs232 (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:34AM
  • Minus M$200 is a return alright by flyingfsck (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:35AM
  • Damn you, Eric Raymond! by jocknerd (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:35AM
  • So... what happens now? by borgheron (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:35AM
  • Mod Ballmer's genius up. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Dystopian Rebel (714995) * on Friday November 17 2006, @09:37AM (#16883494)
    (Last Journal: Sunday November 06 2005, @05:24PM)
    Really, he is a genius. Think about it.

    IT Shop: We need some robust 24/7 uptime servers.

    Ballmer: Great, I'll send you some Windows licences. Misa or VasterCard?

    IT Shop: No, we need a well-architected, secure OS that's designed for networking.

    Ballmer: Great! I'll send you some Vista licences. You should see Aero. Wow!

    IT Shop: No, in the last 10 years, Windows has cost billions of dollars in lost time because of security flaws in Microsoft software.

    Ballmer: Um... well... er... heh...

    IT Shop: We're going with Linux.

    Ballmer: Did you know? All the good parts of Linux were designed by us. Novell even admits it. We release so much great code every day that we let the hippies have some for free. So, in fact, when you buy Vista, you get all the good parts of Linux. Plus... you get Aero! Wow! Will that be Misa or VasterCard?

     
  • Ballmer Infringes on Bald Monkeys by Ranger (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:43AM
  • linus by n3tcat (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:44AM
  • Would it even matter? by Lisandro (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:45AM
  • Duh, FUD by CxDoo (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:46AM
  • by aauu (46157) on Friday November 17 2006, @09:47AM (#16883648)
    (http://www.aaweber.net/)
    All this patent noise is hiding the real agenda. Microsoft is having Novell create a Linux compatibility layer for Windows to replace the aging/ailing Services For Unix/Services for Unix Applications. Services for Linux in Vista/Longhorn by SP2. Novell has the skills to hack Linux interface into Windows, since this is how Netware integrates. Remember FreeBSD has a Linux compatibilty layer so there is an existing shim already that can be adapted.
  • Timing by Daemonstar (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:47AM
  • Tagged scoalreadydidthat (Score:3, Interesting)

    by kimvette (919543) on Friday November 17 2006, @09:47AM (#16883658)
    (http://kim.biyn.com/)
    Didn't SCO already did that? Why can't Microsoft be original? What's next; are they going to try to erect a huge sunshade over Seattle? Steal the head off of a statue of George Washington? Come on now, Microsoft, you can do better than that! But then, I suppose this is so typical of your idea of "innovation."

    Seriously though, if they claim Linux infringes on its IP, it's 99.999% likely that every other *nix variant out there does as well, since Linux is merely a clone of Unix. So, go after the likes of Sun, IBM, SCO (Yeah, I know SCO and Microsoft are lovers, but bear with me here), the BSDs, HP (HP/UX and Dec Unix), and so forth. I don't think even Microsoft has the resources to prove to the courts that an OS architecture which predates theirs by over a decade infringes on their so-called "intellectual property."
  • Microsoft's near-future nemesis: IBM? by Kirin Fenrir (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:47AM
  • The Ghost of Xenix by geoff lane (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:49AM
  • We are at step 4 by nurb432 (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:50AM
  • What is the penalty for violating the BSD license? by grandpa-geek (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:58AM
  • Microsoft, moving customers daily (Score:3, Insightful)

    by DannyO152 (544940) on Friday November 17 2006, @09:59AM (#16883858)
    This, btw, was Ballmer speaking to predominantly to his customers. He led off by asking who was running Microsoft stuff and who was running Linux as well. Reportedly, a "surprising" number of hands (described as many outside of the quote) went up as well, and Ballmer asks about interoperating problems, some of the audience were having them, and on he goes with Microsoft's solution. While the ip in Linux is a legitimate lede, isn't another take-away that Linux is getting into the datacenter whether or not Microsoft cooperates, i.e., there are problems Linux is solving? And didn't he tell his customers that they are infringing Microsoft's ip if they were using the wrong flavor of Enterprise Linux? And isn't he saying that in order to help solve the interoperating problem, RHEL-using customer of ours, we're going to sell you some vouchers so you can get the other brand, waste time adapting to its differences, have you write off that support subscription to RedHat and make you go get more money for your budget, and that way, after we huddle with Novell, you won't have interoperability problems later (maybe). So, everyone keeps asking the FOSS world -- what's your reaction, what are you going to do. Well, Microsoft customers who also use Enterprise Linux or who are thinking about checking into it, what are you going to do, now that Microsoft has decided that it should you cost you more money to do your job?
  • Confirmed Steve Ballmer wants to ruin YOUR weekend by Mongoose (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:59AM
  • Let's hope for a all-out patent-war by 10Ghz (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:59AM
  • you know you like it by megavlad (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @10:02AM
  • Is he referring to the interoperability? by wift (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @10:03AM
  • The most amazing thing by kook44 (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @10:04AM
  • by NullProg (70833) on Friday November 17 2006, @10:04AM (#16883938)
    (http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Wednesday November 07, @10:21PM)

    http://www.linuxcommand.org/man_pages/bsod1.html [linuxcommand.org]

    We all know that Windows most innovative feature is the BSOD. They want thier royalties.

    Enjoy,

  • But think of this (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jlebrech (810586) on Friday November 17 2006, @10:06AM (#16883960)
    (http://i.nt.ro/)
    Microsoft Windows infringes on our intelligence.
  • Is there no such thing as fraud in the US? by mormop (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @10:06AM
  • make lawsuits --not-vista (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Doc Ruby (173196) on Friday November 17 2006, @10:07AM (#16883966)
    (http://slashdot.org/~Doc%20Ruby/journal | Last Journal: Thursday March 31 2005, @01:48PM)
    This move by Microsoft was pretty obviously in the works when they announced their patent cross-licensing scheme with Novell. But the Novell deal isn't absolutely committed yet. And Microsoft, like other submarine patent strategists, usually waits awhile to announce their target, to fool more people into forgetting the way they set up the target, and fool more people into thinking the original transaction was executed for its intrinsic business merits.

    So this whole campaign to screw Linux with patent attacks looks desperate. And since the Novell deal isn't absolutely committed, the strategy is in jeopardy, without its foundation properly laid. With IBM already whipping Novell's last created Frankenstein, SCO, into harmless foam after years in court, Microsoft's attempt looks less likely to succeed every few days. When will Oracle come out of the woods? Does RedHat have a patent arsenal to match its brand and budgets?
  • And... by mindwhip (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @10:13AM
  • Stop whining by Y-Crate (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @10:15AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • New slogan on the horizon by A_Non_Moose (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @10:15AM
  • Ballmer "We're commie pro-cancer advocates" by kjcole (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @10:16AM
  • "intellectual property" at MSFT? by peter303 (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @10:17AM
  • OSX question (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Overzeetop (214511) on Friday November 17 2006, @10:17AM (#16884128)
    (Last Journal: Thursday December 09 2004, @09:25AM)
    So, if there is "infringing" IP in Linux, is there a liklihood that similar infringements have been made in Apple's code?

    Really, I'm not trolling. It sounds like Ballmer is saying that MS has so much of the system tied up in IP that effectively everybody who writes an OS which can interact with MS software is infringing. Does Apple have cross licensing?
  • by walterbyrd (182728) on Friday November 17 2006, @10:21AM (#16884220)
    The lack of specificity is the most damaging. Clearly msft's game is to flood the media with vauge innuendo about linux being a legal mine field. A lie told often enough is the truth. If msft were specific, their claims could be evaluted and appropriate actions taken.

    Msft = the fud factory.
    • Smoking gun by Statecraftsman (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @07:44PM
  • by qazwart (261667) on Friday November 17 2006, @10:25AM (#16884286)
    (http://www.weintraubworld.net/)
    > In comments confirming the open-source community's suspicions,
    > Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer Thursday declared his belief that
    > the Linux operating system infringes on Microsoft's intellectual
    > property.

    Well, look at the facts.

    * Linux uses Microsoft's technology of taking input from a keyboard and displaying it on a monitor.
    * Both Linux and Windows run programs that can help you create documents and run a webserver.
    * Both Linux and Windows need "programs" written in "source code" that must be "compiled" in order to operate. Even worse, these "programs" need to be downloaded either over the Internet or from a CD.
    * Both Linux and Windows communicate with computers that use the Windows OS.

    That's pretty damning evidence! The only technology Linux hasn't stolen yet is Window's ability to bloat up with malware causing the system to come crashing down and displaying the Blue Screen of Death.
  • How??? by aflat362 (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @10:28AM
  • I never tire of pointing out... by caudron (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @10:29AM
  • Who paid whom? by jimfrost (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @10:34AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • According to Ballmer, "the appropriate economic return for our shareholders from our innovation" is about negative 348 million dollars.

    That number sounds a bit small to me; I think Novell should have at least held out for an even $400 million, an apology, and a promise from Microsoft to never try "innovating" again without adult supervision.

    But really, this intellectual property stuff is serious business, and I don't think any Linux users want to fall afoul of the law. If Novell had to pay negative hundreds of dollars for each of their users' infringement of MS intellectual property, I think us Fedora users (and you Ubuntu users, and Gentoo users...) should all be willing to step up to the plate and pay negative hundreds of dollars per license too.
  • Okay, I've read it some... by erroneus (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @10:38AM
  • Brazil [imdb.com] directed by Terry Gilliam

    One of the characters is a guy (played by Robert De Niro) who runs around repairing the horribly broken machines that everyone's required to use, but are forbidden to fix. He's hunted down as a terrorist.

    Seemed pretty crazy when I first saw it.

    Doesn't seem so far fetched anymore.
  • Return for stockholders? by Catbeller (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @10:39AM
  • by caudron (466327) on Friday November 17 2006, @10:44AM (#16884628)
    (http://tom.digitalelite.com/)
    What effect will the Patent Commons project [patent-commons.org] have on a patent assault by Microsoft? Also, will the newly formed Open Inventions Network [openinventionnetwork.com] also affect the way Microsoft approaches this issue?

    I mean, both of those organizations essentially grant rights to their patents royalty free only to companies that don't sue F/OSS projects. If MS starts a suit, wouldn't they have to contend with both of these patent holding portfolios as well as the enormous portfolio of companies like IBM who have a vested interest in seeing Linux succeed?

    I get the feeling (though I could be dead wrong) that MS gets far more benefit from the current ambiguity and the occasional stirring, scary statement than from actually pursuing a legal remedy.

    Tom Caudron
    http://tom.digitalelite.com/ [digitalelite.com]
  • Disturbingly Predictable by CodeMasterPhilzar (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @10:45AM
  • It's SCO all over again by Hausenwulf (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @10:46AM
  • In related news... by trianglman (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @10:48AM
  • by Locutus (9039) on Friday November 17 2006, @10:49AM (#16884738)
    Their shareholders should be pretty pissed at THAT kind of money making scheme. But me thinks it's more like their money making scheme with regard to WindowsCE and Xbox. You know, the scheme to take profits from the Windows monopoly( around $10 billion so far ) and keep the WindowsCE and Xbox products on the market so nobody else jumps in and grows to threaten the Windows monopoly/gravy train.

    IMO, in the next few years we are going to see the public finally seeing Microsoft for what they really are. After all, FOSS and GNU/Linux must be doing SOMETHING or else Microsoft would not be doing so much in the public and financial markets regarding them. Unfortunately, I don't see very much of this in the United States so it must be going on elsewhere or outside of my sight.

    'Gozer' has now, or will soon be, materialized and Novell could be our 'Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man'. Will it be IBM, Oracle, RedHat, or others who bust this party up? Or will the US become to knowns as "The land of Gozer", if it isn't already?

    So, "Who you gonna call?".

    LoB
  • Time to get ready to counter sue/sue Microsoft by bigpat (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @10:49AM
  • Financial incentive for Novell sabotage? by sonofagunn (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @10:51AM
  • Simple idea to fix patents by mulvane (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @10:56AM
  • GatesBallmer like BushRumsfeld SOS StayTheCourse by OldHawk777 (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @11:02AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Me too by decep (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @11:02AM
  • How many chairs? by qmaqdk (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @11:03AM
  • It's Because Vista Is Doomed by Xangis (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @11:06AM
  • Monkey boy does FUD by jvlb (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @11:11AM
  • I See IBM & M$ Going At it:-))))) by 1mck (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @11:12AM
  • What is this about litigation against customers? by _iris (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @11:12AM
  • what IP? by teh_chrizzle (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @11:16AM
    • Re:what IP? by Shados (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @11:37AM
  • millions of lines of by wardk (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @11:18AM
  • This is terrible by andydread (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @11:18AM
  • Boycott Novell by 10scjed (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @11:19AM
  • Rules of Deception 101 (Score:4, Funny)

    Steven, when you use a Trojan Horse strategy, you have to remember to wait to attack until the doors are closed, night has fallen, and the city inhabitants are all asleep in their beds.

    Overall grade: C+

    Great execution of a sneaky plan at the beginning. Strong-arming Novell was a masterstroke. Then you brought the whole plan down because you were too impatient. Reread The Prince before our next assignment.

  • Open Letter to Microsoft by mattr (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @11:23AM
  • Does this works the other way round too ... by zrq (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @11:28AM
  • Cry havoc. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by quag7 (462196) <deepspace@dataswamp.net> on Friday November 17 2006, @11:32AM (#16885494)
    (http://www.dataswamp.net/)
    In a way we should be thanking Ballmer. A lot of people run Linux now and the thrill of simply putting it on one's machine is long gone.

    Ballmer's comments, and the presumable legal action which will follow them in the future, lets us feel like outlaws, non-conformists, and rebels again. SCO was never really a thrilling nemesis

    SCO is...well...SCO is...pathetic.

    I never really had that thrill of running something as unlikely as Linux; by the time I got it installed (2001), it was pretty popular, installers had made it simple, and it wasn't a big deal. But now, not only will my 5 years of Linux usage be a functional and utilitarian experience (which is the sum total of what it has been thus far)-- but also one of spite and defiance going forward.

    I enjoy spite and defiance. Don't you? I'd rather be dragging down kings and military regimes, but this will do as a small snack in my comfortable suburban kitchen.

    A small thrill, but it feels good, nonetheless.

    I can't be the only one who felt *good* to be a Linux user when I read this.

    The chances of me downgrading to something like Vista were null to begin with, but now, well...

    The only thing I have to say about Windows is, well, bitch if I need to, I'll run your OS in a *window*.
    • Re:Cry havoc. by DannyO152 (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @04:29PM
    • Re:Cry havoc. by jbhannah (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @10:22PM
    • Re:Cry havoc. by quag7 (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @03:11PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Ghandi quote by VE3MTM (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @11:36AM
  • Linux probably violates patents (Score:3, Insightful)

    by kabloom (755503) on Friday November 17 2006, @11:37AM (#16885582)
    (http://www.iit.edu/~kbloom1/)
    These days, you can patent anything. Linux probably violates some of Microsoft's patents -- but they're probably stupid patents that will be overturned by a court.

    That doesn't mean it's not expensive to litigate.
  • Time to kick the Microsoft habit... by bdwoolman (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @11:43AM
  • Can Novell sue Microsoft for copying Linux code? by tearmeapart (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @11:52AM
  • Sue for libel? by bberens (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @11:55AM
  • whaaaa? by f1055man (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @12:04PM
  • Under normal circumstances... by Pojut (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @12:07PM
  • As M$ watches SCO wither in Pain... by p00ked (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @12:10PM
  • sue the bastards by f1055man (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @12:12PM
  • A lot of confusion... by A beautiful mind (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @12:21PM
  • Thanks Novell. by sketchman (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @12:30PM
  • Fuck You, Novell, Fuck You Ballmer by WhiteWolf666 (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @12:31PM
  • it probably does by oohshiny (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @12:33PM
  • Linux's Infringement by TheGreatHegemon (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @12:35PM
  • Mark Cuban to buy Microsoft? by SpinyNorman (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @12:43PM
  • Kiss my Shorts! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Brandybuck (704397) on Friday November 17 2006, @12:49PM (#16886870)
    (http://www.usermode.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday April 17 2007, @09:13PM)
    Obligatory Miguel de Icaza quote: "But Microsoft would never do anything mean to us!"
  • So should I remove my openSuse OS by camg188 (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @12:56PM
  • Embrace, Extend, Extinguish... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by dtjohnson (102237) on Friday November 17 2006, @12:56PM (#16887042)
    With the Novell deal, Microsoft pretends to 'embrace' Novell SUSE Linux and casts a FUD shadow over non-SUSE Linux but that's not the whole thing. Next will come the Microsoft products that extend SUSE Linux to 'interoperate' with Windows and, guess what, they might actually become popular and useful for both Windows and Novell SUSE Linux users. Finally comes 'extinguish' where the new products become obstacles to using other OSS software and non-SUSE linux.
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • His only hope is that no IBM patent lawyer was by melted (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @12:57PM
  • Wrapping my head around this one by penguin_dance (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @12:57PM
  • I was going to say something witty and eloquent by Unlikely_Hero (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @12:57PM
  • Ballmer is lying by oohshiny (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @01:04PM
  • Bitch slap that moron, someone please!!! by mlwmohawk (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @01:04PM
  • Lets let this play out by techamed (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @01:07PM
  • intelectual property by ruffles321 (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @01:14PM
  • What's The Course Of Action? by mpapet (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @01:35PM
  • A question... by paulmer2003 (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @01:37PM
  • maybe... by DragonTHC (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @01:47PM
  • Law of Unintended Consequences by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @01:58PM
  • I didn't want to believe it.. by TheNinjaroach (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @02:16PM
  • What this means... by QuietLagoon (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @02:22PM
  • Ballmer at odds with MS? by BumpyCarrot (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @02:53PM
  • legal action by linux_vs_ms (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @02:56PM
  • The final shootout by defsdoor (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @03:49PM
  • Could it also be Visa-Versa? by JoeCommodore (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @04:01PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Lotus v. Borland redux? by rmcd (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @04:14PM
  • I thought I'd do a quick Google search and see if good ol' Microsoft has ever "appropriated" any code themselves. In just a few minutes, I found eight instances where Microsoft lost court battles over the code they stole. Here you go:

    As a response to Digital Research's DR-DOS 6.0, which bundled SuperStor disk compression, Microsoft opened negotiations with Stac Electronics, vendor of the most popular DOS disk compression tool, Stacker. Stac was unwilling to meet Microsoft's terms for licensing Stacker and withdrew from the negotiations. In the due diligence process, Stac engineers had shown Microsoft some Stacker source code. However, Microsoft chose to license Vertisoft's DoubleDisk instead of Stacker.[2]

    Soon, MS-DOS 6.0 was released, including the Microsoft DoubleSpace disk compression utility program. Stac successfully sued Microsoft for patent infringement regarding the compression algorithm used in DoubleSpace. This resulted in the release of MS-DOS 6.21, which had disk-compression removed. Shortly afterwards came version 6.22, with a new version of the disk compression system, DriveSpace, rewritten to avoid the infringing code.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-DOS [wikipedia.org]

    A new patent battle is brewing -- this time over Microsoft's (Quote) claim over Caller ID for E-Mail.

    F. Scott Deaver, owner of Failsafe Designs, says Microsoft is guilty of the "outright theft" of his product name and intellectual property (IP), and will seek legal and financial redress from the Redmond, Wash., software giant and anyone else that uses his technology that verifies e-mail is coming from the domain it claims.

    http://www.internetnews.com/security/article.php/3 393891 [internetnews.com]

    Alacritech® Inc., the innovator of Dynamic TCP Offload(TM) data acceleration solutions that enable the highest performance and efficiency in networked systems, today announced a U.S. District Court granted Alacritech's motion for preliminary injunction to prevent Microsoft Corporation (Nasdaq: MSFT) from making, using, offering for sale, selling, importing or inducing others to use Microsoft's "Chimney" TCP offload architecture slated to be available in both the "Longhorn" version of the Windows® operating system and in the Scalable Networking Pack for Windows Server(TM) 2003.

    Alacritech sued Microsoft in Federal District Court on August 11, 2004, alleging that Microsoft's existing and future operating systems containing the "Chimney" TCP offload architecture uses Alacritech's proprietary SLIC Technology® architecture. The suit is based on two of Alacritech's fundamental patents relating to scalable networking, U.S. Patent No. 6,427,171 and U.S. Patent No. 6,987,868, both entitled "Protocol Processing Stack for use with Intelligent Network Interface Device."

    http://www.alacritech.com/html/041305Alacritech_Gr anted_PI.shtml [alacritech.com]

    In April 2001, Intertrust initiated a lawsuit against Microsoft. The lawsuit ultimately accused Microsoft of infringing 11 of Intertrust's patents and almost 130 of the company's patent claims.

    The lawsuit centered on accused products based on the following technologies:

    DRM and product activation technologies .NET and related security technologies
    Trusted and reliable operating system technologies
    In bringing the patent infringement lawsuit, Intertrust believed that Microsoft's forward-going technology infrastructure significantly relied on Intertrust's inventions for DRM and trusted computing.

    http://www.intertrust.com/main/ip/settlement.html [intertrust.com]

    (Redwood Shores, CA, December 15, 2005) - Visto Corporation has filed a legal action against Microsoft (NASDAQ: MSFT) for misappropriating Visto's intellectual property. The complaint ass
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Maybe Linux DOES infringe by brainyron (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @04:53PM
  • hahahhahaha by skelator2821 (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @04:59PM
  • My Theory by Maniac-X (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @05:00PM
  • Narrow do the suing field by HermMunster (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @05:08PM
  • Aren't they sticking their neck out here? by Kazoo the Clown (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @07:07PM
  • More stupid posturing from microsoft. by Ragingguppy (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @08:36PM
  • Community Fund by Fez001 (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:06PM
  • Now that he's admitted it by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:27PM
  • Remember the halloween documents? by 3seas (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @10:32PM
  • Hypocrisy by jawahar (Score:1) Saturday November 18 2006, @12:15AM
  • Umm... what drugs is Microsoft on? by chemaja (Score:1) Saturday November 18 2006, @03:31AM
  • Keep trying, Steve by petrus4 (Score:2) Saturday November 18 2006, @03:40AM
  • The other shoe... by 0x0000 (Score:2) Tuesday November 21 2006, @12:51PM
  • Re:Hey Ballmer... by sunwukong (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:02AM
  • Re:LOLZ @ MSFT... by Hijacked Public (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:05AM
  • Re:Remember QDOS? by jmyers (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @09:15AM
  • Re:LOLZ @ MSFT... by tomstdenis (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:19AM
  • Re:LOLZ @ MSFT... by everphilski (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @09:41AM
  • Re:LOLZ @ MSFT... by tomstdenis (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @10:07AM
  • Re:Luckiest guy ever poll by kook44 (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @10:39AM
  • Re:Luckiest guy ever poll by Cauchy (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @10:59AM
  • Re:LOLZ @ MSFT... by somersault (Score:2) Friday November 17 2006, @11:42AM
  • Re:Microsoft Inovates? by VE3MTM (Score:1) Friday November 17 2006, @12:06PM
  • Re:Microsoft Inovates? by Divebus (Score:1) Saturday November 18 2006, @12:45AM
  • 40 replies beneath your current threshold.
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