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Microsoft Interested In More Linux Deals
Posted by
Zonk
on Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:57 AM
from the of-course-it-is dept.
from the of-course-it-is dept.
eldavojohn writes "Microsoft has announced that it would be open to more deals similar to the one it just made with Novell. 'We will love to put that kind of agreement in place with anyone who distributes Linux software, Red Hat, whoever else,' Steve Ballmer told India's Economic Times. Considering the recent reactions to the Microsoft Novell deal, it would be interesting to see who else takes them up on the offer. Novell is due to receive USD $348 million in up-front payments. Will Red Hat cash out on this offer if it feels the impending pressure from Oracle's Linux? Will non-profit Linux distributions attempt to make deals with Microsoft?"
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At this point, the only thing that's certain is that Red Hat needs to figure out how to keep their large Oracle Enterprise clients on board or risk becoming a takeover target (undoubtably, with Oracle leading the list of potentially bidders)."
At this point, the only thing that's certain is that Red Hat needs to figure out how to keep their large Oracle Enterprise clients on board or risk becoming a takeover target (undoubtably, with Oracle leading the list of potentially bidders)."
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Microsoft To Announce Linux Partnership 534 comments
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A 5-Year Deal With Microsoft To Dump Novell/SUSE 174 comments
Nicholas Petreley writes, "Wake up little SUSE, wake up. No, that's not good enough. Wake up SUSE customers, wake up. Novell is jeopardizing the future of Linux for its own short-term rewards. If you want to see Linux flourish, let alone survive, after Novell's five year deal with Microsoft expires, I suggest we make an alternative five-year deal with Microsoft. In this case, our part of the deal is to spend the next five minutes, months, or years migrating away from every shred of Novell/SUSE software in our home, office, or enterprise."
[+]
Red Hat Rejects Microsoft Patent Deal Overtures 201 comments
Geekgal writes "Red Hat has slammed the door shut on any possibility of entering into a patent protection deal similar to the one Microsoft recently announced with Novell, eWeek is reporting. While Microsoft has repeatedly said it wants to work with Red Hat and would like to structure a relationship where its customers can be assured of the same thing as Novell's customers now are, Mark Webbink, Red Hat's deputy general counsel, says 'we do not believe there is a need for or basis for the type of relationship defined in the Microsoft-Novell announcement.' Interestingly enough, Microsoft also says that it has not ruled out going it alone and providing some sort of indemnification for its customers who also use Red Hat Linux." Meanwhile, Eben Moglen, the FSF general counsel, promises that GPLv3 will explicitly outlaw deals like this. (Of course everyone's on v2, so calling the Novell deal "DOA" would be premature.)
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Way too obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
Way too obvious.
"Mr Ballmer, on a visit to India, said that while he believed software would be increasingly downloaded and managed off the internet,"
As in apt-get?
""I would say we are moving to a world where there is a lot more electronic distribution. It is a new style of software, not the old-style distributed electronically.""
He's obviously not taking his meds - as in the 'raise my IQ above that of a carot' pill he must need each morning to get out the door.
"The next frontier for us is to embrace a new business model. And if we embrace it well and that business model is subscription and advertising,"
Curious that he left out 'make good software' and 'support'...
Re:Way too obvious (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
One possible scheme (Score:5, Interesting)
Basically, you engage in Novell-like patent cross-licensing deals with all the major Linux manufacturers, and push them towards one distribution ("MSLinux"). You drop hints about possible liability if anyone uses non-licensed distributions, discouraging their adoption and funding. Plus, you create a lot of proprietary, MSLinux-only 'compatibility extensions' that let it work with Windows. In the end, once "MSLinux" has captured a significant portion of the market, you cut of its air supply and let it die. This leaves people with little choice but to migrate to Windows, since the other Linux distributions are either perceived to be dangerous (due to patent landmines) or have simply been neglected and underfunded for so long, that they can no longer compete.
It's not a total endgame against Linux, but it's a pretty significant move. The GPL prohibits Linux from ever being killed completely (particularly outside the U.S.); but if you get enough software patents, it might be basically impossible to use in any significant, competitive way, without opening oneself up to legal problems.
The real unknown variable in all this is where IBM stands. They're obviously pro-Linux, but their support is generally indirect. You don't see them buying or operating their own Linux flavor or distribution outright. I wonder if Microsoft started buying up the competition, and the field started to narrow, would IBM jump in and pick up one of the players?
IIRC, the Linux desktop that IBM was going to deploy companywide (which would have been significant in itself, they have something like 300k employees) was a RHEL derivative. I wonder if they have some relationship with RH that would make them a likely buyout, or at least patent cross-licensing target?
That would be interesting; Novell and Microsoft and their patents on one side, and Red Hat and IBM on another, with the biggest repository of patents in the U.S. That would be an interesting showdown.
Parent
meaningless (Score:4, Insightful)
Furthermore, we have had several software patent claims against FOSS and they have had no teeth: by the nature of FOSS projects, wilfull infringement hardly ever occurs, and damages are hard to claim. In the end, software patents are quickly and easily disposed of by FOSS by working around them.
I think we should consider this spending mostly part of a big FUD and PR campaign on the part of Microsoft. In the end, however, it's meaningless.
Parent
What he leaves out says a lot (Score:5, Insightful)
You've hit it right on the head. There are quite a few things Balmer is leaving out; and what he's not saying speaks volumes. He's also deliberately not saying that Microsoft wishes to become a good citizen of the Linux community.
Or, in short, what he's telling us is that Microsoft is up to its old tricks again. One needs to ignore the smoke and mirrors, and instead read between the lines.
That's why I object to Novell's deal. What they have done is to deliberately attempt to go around the rules that everyone must play by. That's not being a good member of the community; that's telling everyone else to f*** off, they don't have to play by the normal rules. Pure sleeze, which is the unfortunate norm of the closed source world. I had expected better from Novell.
If Microsoft and Novell wish to foster respect and trust, they need to play by the GPL and not try to figure out ways to go around it.
Parent
Re:Way too obvious (Score:5, Funny)
Does that really work?
qubit@mslinuxbox:~$ make good software
make: *** No rule to make target `good'. Stop.
qubit@mslinuxbox:~$
Hmm... doesn't work for me...
Parent
Re:Way too obvious (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Your stretching it a bit by belittling Apple. They and NeXT did the impossible - they made Unix really, really usable. I speak as someone who bought a Mac intending to stick NetBSD or Yellow Dog Linux on it, only to end up sticking to OS X because I find it so easy to live with.
Cringley calls shenanigans (Score:4, Informative)
Ah yeah (Score:4, Insightful)
So what? Microsoft wants to give the deal to everyone.. ; hey i want to destribute my own distribution. Can I have a few milliion dollars too Steve? Just to make sure you won't sue me.... anyway, considered I have only $2000 in my bank account, even if you sued me, I would not even be able to cover your legal fee no?
Mmmm.. now i'm trembling. In a few seconds, I will click on a button at a bottom of this page and I will send that to slashdot... and crap, Amazon has patented the one click... Microsoft the click which does different thing if you click for a long or short time.. Ah crap. Maybe using my penis instead of a mouse is not patented, who knows.
"Old news!" Not for people who use MS... (Score:4, Interesting)
Information is information regardless of where it comes from. What I'd really like to see is MS learning a lot from Linux distros and then incorporates things I happen to love about linux and oss into the system my employer forces me to use (so I can read spreadsheets... ugh). It would make my working life more fun.
The MS strategy here seems obvious to me. They bring a bunch of open source groups under their roof. The open source people who make money help MS make money as time goes by through support (not sure why MS is paying so much in advance, to be honest). The open source people embrace things like mono which work for any language (eventually) and on any system (mono). MS knows the uber geeks will probably still use Linux or Bsd or whatever, but they now can bring a LOT more open source software into the windows world. Beagle is a neat tool. Tomboy is neat. Are they neat enough for my mom to use on her windows computer? Possibly. MS could modify it and then redistribute, couldn't they? I think the gateway between free apps that are neat and their money making os is simply being opened.
If our software really is so much better, then what do we have to be afraid of. The software is GPL'd which means we're safe from anyone taking it away from us...
Sure they are! (Score:3, Funny)
The same way a humpback whale is interested in plankton.
Do No Evil? (Score:5, Funny)
I'm guessing that that would be the "Do No Evil" part, Mr. Ballmer?
Red Hat should go to the table (Score:5, Insightful)
What could be Microsoft's rationale? (Score:3, Insightful)
In the first articles I read on this, the idea I got was that people thought perhaps Microsoft set up this deal in order to legitimize the value of their patents so that they can later sue other distributors (and maybe users). The theory was that they'd be able to point to the deal where Novell paid them $40M for their patents and say "see, these are valuable, and the defendant is willfully infringing them, we deserve massive damages".
Upon further reflection, that doesn't make any sense to me. Unless he's a complete idiot, the defendant's attorney would just say "Your honor, Novell paid $40M to the plaintiff as part of a larger deal that was offered by the plaintiff and netted Novell $340M, after the $40M payment. Novell didn't pay for these patent licenses, the plaintiff paid Novell to take them specifically so that it could use that deal as evidence of their value. No, your honor, the plaintiff has not established the value of these patents with that deal, if anything the plaintiff has established their lack of value".
I think what's really going on here is that Microsoft is trying to disarm the opposition.
See, the way big corporate patent battles often play out is that no money changes hands, because the defendant just points out all of their patents that the plaintiff is infringing. There are some big companies with big patent portfolios that have a vested interest in defending Linux. Novell and IBM are the biggest. I think that Microsoft is afraid to press its own patent claims because Novell and IBM might step in on the side of the defendant and offer to countersue for Microsoft infringement of Novell and IBM patents.
BUT, if Microsoft can pre-emptively create cross-licensing agreements with the big potential Linux defenders, that problem goes away and Microsoft is then free to unleash its patent portfolio on Linux.
I'm not too worried about Novell signing up, and I wouldn't even be too worried about Red Hat, since I don't think Red Hat has a lot of patents, but if Microsoft signs (or has already signed?) a big cross-licensing deal with IBM then I think there could be a very significant risk to Linux. I'm sure there are numerous patent cross-licensing deals in place between Microsoft and IBM because of their cooperative history in the past, but only they know whether or not those deals are sufficient to allow Microsoft to attack Linux with impunity.
Bring out your dead! (Score:5, Funny)
CUSTOMER: What?
MIRCOSOFT: Nothing. Here's your money.
LINUX: I'm not dead!
CUSTOMER: He says he's not dead!
MICROSOFT: Yes, he is.
LINUX: I'm not!
CUSTOMER: He isn't?
MICROSOFT: Well, he will be soon. He's very ill.
LINUX: I'm getting better!
MICROSOFT: No, you're not. You'll be stone dead in a moment.
A record, even for Microsoft (Score:5, Interesting)
The ink on the Novell-MS deal isn't even dry yet and Ballmer is publicly announcing his intention to violate it.
In case nobody noticed, one of the clauses is that Microsoft won't cut any similar deals with Linux companies for at least three years. It's barely three days and they're already trolling for more.
Microsoft's habits will die hard (Score:5, Insightful)
I've been looking at all of the threads here -- interesting points for and against what Microsoft is doing. For any other large dominant company I might look at this as an encouraging development that could help the Linux movement. But Microsoft's history and habits lead me to different conclusions, or at least instincts about their intent.
I could list the litany of Microsoft's trespasses, not the least of which includes their DOJ conviction and subsequent Consent Decree which Microsoft seems to only loosely honor. Buy I need only look to the very recent past to find typical strong-armed and bullying Microsoft behavior, specifically their introduction of Zune and its associated music store silo.
Microsoft brought big guns, and big players (Samsung, Creative, among others) to develop and create the portable music industry of "Plays for Sure". The idea was to have players and music compatible across a wide swath of hardware with a large musical repertoire for purchase.
But Microsoft has thumbed its nose at that effort and struck out on its own with an incompatible "other" way of doing music... heck it's even incompatible with the old Microsoft Music Store! What the heck?
So, while I can't predict or summon up the specifics of Microsoft's intentions to harm the Linux community and how Microsoft would do just that, but I sure have seen enough to be pretty sure their ultimate goal is to squash Linux, or make it completely theirs to the extent and extreme it no longer looks anything like the Linux of today.
I hope the other Linux distros can withstand the Microsoft juggernaut.
Yawn (Score:3, Interesting)
Wake me up when they become partners with something like Debian
New Headline - MS invests in cancer (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Well, I guess Microsoft Gets It Now (Score:5, Interesting)
When competition becomes serious, "embrace and extend." This is exactly what MS's outlandish purchases in the 90s were about, and it seems they just forgot about it for a while (and were probably concerned about antitrust).
Meet the new Microsoft... same as the old Microsoft.
Parent
Re:Well, I guess Microsoft Gets It Now (Score:4, Interesting)
http://www.hunterstrat.com/news/2006/10/26/microso ft-1q-fy07-earnings-segment-breakout/ [hunterstrat.com]
Certainly, their client software is their cash cow, but see how little attention it is getting compared to servers and tools? Consider this: most windows liscences are sold at a steep discount when bundled with a PC... which does make MS profit, but a steadily decreasing one. I think MS is shifting their business model (which they are very good at). I won't say I know what they are up to, but it is clear that they have a long term plan.
Parent
Re:On the whole, I support the deal... (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, can any slashdoter tell me why this deal is really bad and should be avoided?
I'm not saying either of those things - but I don't have the warm and fuzzies over this. Why? Because there is no immediate answer to the most obvious question; What does Microsoft believe they are getting for their 348 million dollars?
I mean - they ponied up a third of a bill so that you'd be protected from lawsuits...from them. Wouldn't it have been cheaper to - say - not sue? I'd have to double-check my figures; but I'm pretty sure that will cost you nothing.
They're getting something out of this (or at least they believe they are), and if you've directly benefited, then it's reasonable to believe that it's costing you something as well (TNSTAAFL).
Maybe it's a good trade, maybe not, but Microsoft has earned a certain reputation among this audience.
Time, and the trust of Linux users other than myself, will tell.
Parent
Mod parent up! (Score:3, Insightful)
And certainly not at a third of a billion dollars for that "help".
What, specifically, is being purchased?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm honestly curious. I've only heard that Novell would be supporting Microsoft virtualization under Linux as a result.