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A 5-Year Deal With Microsoft To Dump Novell/SUSE
Posted by
kdawson
on Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:02 AM
from the wake-up-call dept.
from the wake-up-call dept.
Nicholas Petreley writes, "Wake up little SUSE, wake up. No, that's not good enough. Wake up SUSE customers, wake up. Novell is jeopardizing the future of Linux for its own short-term rewards. If you want to see Linux flourish, let alone survive, after Novell's five year deal with Microsoft expires, I suggest we make an alternative five-year deal with Microsoft. In this case, our part of the deal is to spend the next five minutes, months, or years migrating away from every shred of Novell/SUSE software in our home, office, or enterprise."
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Microsoft Interested In More Linux Deals 256 comments
eldavojohn writes "Microsoft has announced that it would be open to more deals similar to the one it just made with Novell. 'We will love to put that kind of agreement in place with anyone who distributes Linux software, Red Hat, whoever else,' Steve Ballmer told India's Economic Times. Considering the recent reactions to the Microsoft Novell deal, it would be interesting to see who else takes them up on the offer. Novell is due to receive USD $348 million in up-front payments. Will Red Hat cash out on this offer if it feels the impending pressure from Oracle's Linux? Will non-profit Linux distributions attempt to make deals with Microsoft?"
[+]
Ballmer Says Linux "Infringes Our Intellectual Property" 820 comments
Stony Stevenson writes "In comments confirming the open-source community's suspicions, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer Thursday declared his belief that the Linux operating system infringes on Microsoft's intellectual property." From the ComputerWorld article: "In a question-and-answer session after his keynote speech at the Professional Association for SQL Server (PASS) conference in Seattle, Ballmer said Microsoft was motivated to sign a deal with SUSE Linux distributor Novell earlier this month because Linux 'uses our intellectual property' and Microsoft wanted to 'get the appropriate economic return for our shareholders from our innovation.'" His exact wording is available at the Seattle Intelligencer, which has a transcript of the interview. Groklaw had an article up Wednesday giving some perspective on the Novell/Microsoft deal. Guess we'll have something to talk about in 2007, huh?
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Lets Get Biblical? (Score:5, Funny)
SuSE and Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft advertises on slashdot as well.
Microsoft is, in the end, just a company. It may be a monopoly, but it is just a company. It's not going to destroy linux if one company makes a deal with another one. Linux is an operating system that spans MANY companies. If anything, this may get linux into more of those pro-windows IT shops. The ones that aren't pro-windows won't care about the deal either way.
It just seems odd to me that people are foaming at the mouth over this.
Actual Knowledge (Score:5, Insightful)
People who have seen the comments who have publicly shared the exact details on
Honestly sometimes the
Sheesh....time for a break from my tinfoil hat and staying indoors.
I'm doing my part... (Score:4, Funny)
I'm doing my part already. I installed the RC2 on my test pc and will be installing the final version on all compatible machines.
hell no (Score:3, Funny)
ATTN EDITORS:Thread problem (Score:4, Informative)
Looks like replies are broken, perhaps data-base limitation, see LiquidCooled's post here [slashdot.org]
Let's look at this objectively (Score:5, Insightful)
In brief: Microsoft has cross-licensed software patents with Novell. The idea is to legitimize their patents before they attempt to sue other Linux distro vendors (and probably others).
The author is correct in their assertion that, if Novell has done so (and it appears that they may have), they are actually now in violation of the GPL. From section 7:
For example, if a patent license would not permit royalty-free redistribution of the Program by all those who receive copies directly or indirectly through you, then the only way you could satisfy both it and this License would be to refrain entirely from distribution of the Program.
The endgame is where I lose the guy a little on the specifics, but it doesn't really matter. The point here is another anti-Linux legal FUD campaign. suffice it to say, this is hardly a conspiracy theory. Microsoft is the direct author of SCO.
Say it with me, kids. Software Patents are Insane.
Software Patents are Insane.
No one can read 200,000 of them, or the few thousand new ones each day. No human being can validate code against the patent base. All software is a ticking patent timebomb. It is (vaguely) legalized barratry, and the rest of the world (who has soundly avoided this insanity) will be laughing at the American software industry all the way to the bank.
There is no solution short of immediate and complete invalidation of all current and future patents on software.
Re:This makes no sense (Score:4, Funny)
I assumed you meant "less than 1%" in which case it should have been " Which means you'd better stay away from Linux anyway because you'll be absolutely rubbish at redirecting STDIN, STDOUT and STEDERR at the command line...
How About a Third Option (Score:5, Informative)
Perhaps there's a third option: SUSE will contain code covered under Microsoft patents, since Microsoft is helping both the distribution and Windows interoperate better, which might mean breaking a few of its own patents, since Microsoft has that right.
How about a fourth? The article thinks Novell is spreading FUD. Maybe out of this deal is code for use in other linux distros, but Microsoft is helping to energize SUSE given how much money was dumped into Novell.
Now for a fifth: the article referenced in this post is just spreading FUD. It's the typical, "It stinks of Microsoft so it must be bad." I don't see how better interop is bad.
Re:Lets Get Biblical? (Score:3, Informative)
Is it really that bad that Microsoft and Novell made this deal?
No, but at the article maintains...
And if you are a Linux booster, your first thought is that SUSE/Novell has sold its soul to the devil. But don't kid yourself; all arguments about patents and the GPL aside, the frightening thought is that Microsoft might steal ideas from Linux, wrap them in subtle obfuscations, and try to pass them off as original concepts that were natural outgrowths of Windows development. The thought that Linux and Windows might procreate... well, that's gotta be kinda shocking. But then again, doesn't this potentially lead to the Linux community getting a better look at Windows and perhaps pulling the same in reverse? In the end we end up with something that will probably be stillborn. As to the death of SUSE, I think the threat is greatly exaggerated.
Goodbye, little SuSE (Score:3, Funny)
I'm dating a nice lady from Africa named Ubuntu. And she has all the features I need!
Another person upholding the elitist stereotype (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you want in the door at Fortune 500 companies? I mean lots of them? Then this is a good thing.
If Linux is to displace Microsoft then it needs exposure exposure exposure. It needs people seeing if they can run complex Excel spreadsheets with VB Macros on other platforms. It needs people seeing if there are alternate Exchange backends that allow full Outlook frontends.
If Linux works well with Microsoft more people will at least *try* Linux, plain and simple. When people try it, they either stay with it or come back and say why it won't work.
For example, there are tons of popular PC platforms that various Linux distros won't work on without changing things. Just 2 weeks ago I attempted to install the newest Ubuntu build on a 3 year old P4 IBM business class PC and you know what, it wouldn't install. I was able to troubleshoot it to a lack of onboard video memory, but a quick bios fix took care of that. Unfortunately the error that came up was so vague that the "average" user would have probably given up.
Linux needs all the "new" users it can get. They are the ones that find the funky errors, the ones that the "elites" otherwise consider a "minor" issue.
One of the reasons that Windows is so popular is that for the most part it installs without any problems, especially on PC's from major manufacturers (which Fortune 500 companies tend to buy).
Enough now, I'm at work.
Great! A Chance to Express Myself! (Score:5, Funny)
At any rate, I'll make some statements to start a conversation and if the rest of Slashdot agrees with them, do not respond or refute them:
- Microsoft is the awesomenest company ever--assimilating Novell's SUSE is just another sign that we need to worship MS.
- Vote Republican or you kill babies.
- Linux is a deformed version of something I threw up last night after too much whiskey.
Once again, remember that silence is complacency, I await your responses if you disagree with me!Re:This makes no sense (Score:3, Insightful)
What I find is that they want a magic disc that they can put in the slot in the front of their "hard drive unit" and magically everything either works, or fixes itself. They are just as confused about having to run setup from a CD as they are about running an install script. Either one is a kind of "black magic" to them as they don't understand either. Many of them don't know if they have installed software or not, despite having run the installation CD.
The hunt for drivers or updates is something that all computer users used to have to do. The Linux desktop, while not exactly a shining example of easy to use/install software, is still a viable alternative, and if _regular people_ have to learn one OS or another, there is no reason not to learn Linux. Remember, _regular people_ are baffled by every OS, not just Linux. Your ranting is counter productive, and seems to settle on windows simply because its been here for a few years, and until every other OS looks and works like windows, then windows is the only OS to use. This is not sound logical reasoning.
Awesome plan! (Score:3, Interesting)
So the best option is react with:
"Novell/SUSE users and customers should wipe Novell/SUSE off their disks and install virtually any non-Novell/SUSE alternative in its place."
Also:
"I seem to recall Microsoft made five year (or similar length) deals with Sybase, Symantec, Corel, Borland, Citrix, and other companies that thrived before the deals only to be reduced to insignificant gnats afterward."
It's the same plan that they used to kill Apple. Oh, wait...
All right, all right we get the message already... (Score:5, Insightful)
Some companies may buy SuSE, because of the Microsoft deal, but I strongly doubt it. SCO has shown that legal threats do not work. Do you really think IBM will beg for mercy if Novell (or Microsoft) knocks on the door, legal papers in hand? Do you think HP will do the same? What about Sun? I don't think so.
As a matter of fact, the Novell/Microsoft deal may be excellent for the future of Linux: I can see a lot of companies (HP, IBM, Red Hat, Mandriva, Sun, etc) get together and pool legal resources to fight any such threat. And that means -- worst case scenario -- that their combined economic power will simply crush any attempt by Microsoft to be "legally" naughty. The fact is, Linux cannot be stopped right now: there is simply too much interest and too much money at stake for too many people. And I suspect Microsoft knows this: it's simply trying to dip a toe in the water, see how this Linux thing really is working, try to work out some sort of compromise and preserve its profit margin. But it knows it can't fight Linux anymore (or, at least, some parts of Microsoft know that -- some other parts may ignore it).
Open source is an idea whose time has come. And it was Victor Hugo who said: "You can't fight an idea whose time has come". Again, I suspect Microsoft knows this. Hence the Novell deal.
Dumping Novell (Score:5, Insightful)
Novell/SUSE users and customers should wipe Novell/SUSE off their disks and install virtually any non-Novell/SUSE alternative in its place.
Not so easy in a server room, especially in a mixed Windows/*nix server room where Novell's deal with Microsoft doesn't bother management in the slightest, even if you can explain it to them.
An "upgrade" to Red Hat might be the sort of thing that could be explained to the average PHB though, especially if you can make a cost-savings case for it.
We can expect marketing campaigns from Red Hat and Oracle [slashdot.org] anytime now, with "upgrade" deals waved around.
Dump all MONO development for any of the many excellent alternatives, and abandon your investment in all Novell-based open or closed source tools.
Sounds easier: Mono hasn't established a significant base in the corporate market yet. And if Sun GPLs Java [slashdot.org], you could even start presenting Java as not just more open, but also least-likely-to-be-sued.
Weird times.
SuSE lost me when Novell picked them up. (Score:3, Interesting)
Should I do it again?... (Score:5, Insightful)
"Under the patent cooperation agreement, Novell's customers receive directly from Microsoft a covenant not to sue. Novell does not receive a patent license or covenant not to sue from Microsoft, and we have not agreed with Microsoft to any condition that would contradict the conditions of the GPL. Our agreement does not affect the freedom that Novell or anyone else in the open source community, including developers, has under the GPL and does not impose any condition that would contradict the conditions of the GPL. Therefore, the agreement is fully compliant with the GPL,"
http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS4685037869.html [linux-watch.com]
That reminds me of another, historical, agreement:
"Under the treaty, England receives directly from Germany a promise not to attack Poland. England does not receive a promise not to attack Germany, and we have not agreed with Germany to any condition that would contradict the conditions of previous treaties. Our agreement does not affect the freedom that Poland or any other country in Europe, including France, has under previous treaties and does not impose any condition that would contradict the conditions of such treaties. Therefore, the treaty is fully compliant with all previous treaties."
Sincerely,
Neville Chamberlain
I can see it know (Score:5, Funny)
"Bad news sir, we need to uninstall SUSE right now and migrate all 30 boxes to another linux!"
"What? Why?"
"MS is bad and makes deals with Novel, if we keep SUSE our linux geek cred score will go down by MANY MANY points. We can't have that."
"...are you high again?"
"...maybe"
Stupid anti-MS fanatics (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, Novell's code is under the GPL. This means that anything Microsoft lets Novell do can be used by anyone else. Thus, MS can't use this to make a 'MS only' version of Linux. In fact, thanks to the GPL, anything Microsoft does to help Novell can help the community as a whole.
Microsoft is not the Devil. Everything they touch is not automatically unclean and corrupted. The worst MS could do is help Novell create a Linux distro that is the standard by which other distros are judged. I know many
cool down (Score:5, Interesting)
But in the end, the deal is legally meaningless because Novell cannot protect just its own customers from lawsuits over (L)GPL software; yes, Novell can agree to cover their customers' legal costs, but should Microsoft ever assert any patents against anybody on a piece of (L)GPL'ed software, Novell's customers have to stop using the software in question (well, technically, they'd just not get any updates, but that amounts to the same thing) just like everybody else, since the (L)GPL does not permit redistribution of software that's patent encumbered.
Potentially, this deal could be used by Microsoft to establish that their patents are "valuable", but I think courts aren't that stupid either. Furthermore, we have had several "worst-case scenarios" involving patents, open source software, and litigious companies, and their long term effect has been nil: open source seems to be able to work around intellectual property issues quite effectively.
In the end, Microsoft has given several hundred million dollars to an open source company for a legally meaningless move and the ability to spread a bunch of FUD. It probably would have looked better for Novell to turn them down, but I don't see it as a really big problem that they didn't, and it's a big chunk of change that will probably fund more open source development.
So, should you still use SuSE? I don't particularly like the company; I think they have always been excessively fond of software whose licenses I consider questionable (including Java and Qt). But I don't see them as a big threat either, and they are contributing to the community. In the end, the whole thing is a tempest in a teapot, except that an open source company is several hundred million dollars richer, which can't be all that bad.
not a problem, no really (Score:5, Interesting)
However it isn't, and I think microsoft just haven't grasped that. Open source (which seems to be a phrase under constant re-interpretation), has one interesting attribute, only the fittest survive, not the 'richest'. Money has never equalled success in the FOSS world. Although it can help a truly good product get better, it can't save a bad one. This is entirely different to the closed source world, where money can indeed prop up crap software (IE anyone?).
SUSE has never been the best distro, and its not very populer among the hobbyist userbase. All it has going for it is that microsoft and Novell have an established history of working together, something microsoft don't have with any other linux distributor.
Microsoft had no choice but to pick SUSE, so they have to get what they can from this deal by way of leverage on the linux install base.
They have already proved themselves capable of throwing billions into enterprises that make no money, so the idea that they could push 'microsoft aproved' linux at a loss to corporations and reap benefits by being perceived as an aproved software portal for the corporate world in this new era is entirely plausible.
That would equal control, and that further means they can 'phase out' linux, because they control it, as it 'just isn't good enough'.
Alas, this is a house of cards, and it just won't work. The plain fact is that open source has never really been something one entity controls, so this deal with Novell will harm SUSE, but not gnu/linux as a whole. Microsofts real target is Red Hat, being as they are the major player in the corporate linux world, and Novell is as close as they can get to the Red Hat camp, close enough (they think) to harm its install base.
Yup, SUSE will be harmed, Red Hat may get pinched a bit, but FOSS is controlled by hundreds of thousands of developers, and will barely notice this event. Politics don't generally hurt hackers or prevent them from coding into the night, that's what mailing lists are for. You can't kill FOSS by finding bit of it and jumping up and down on it, and the open source world will always have a nasty habit of pulling a new unexpected innivation out that will deal a serious blow to any advance microsoft have made.
I won't be having anything to do with any novell products now, not that I did much already, I'd decided a long time back that SUSE didn't do linux the way I liked it.
Rant rant (Score:5, Interesting)
Then he goes on to say near the end:
However question #1 in the FAQ is: How is this agreement compatible with Novell's obligations under Section 7 of the GPL? and the reply is:
It also goes on to say that there was no threat of a law suit. so if he's going to call for lawyers to go after Novell for breaching the section 7 of the GPL.........maybe he should get some proof that they did?
Yes, let us panick now! (Score:4, Insightful)
Also let us not look at it objectivaly and let us completely ignore what Novell has done for the Open Source community. Just let us drop them and then hope that Novell goes broke and some others fill in the void that will happen.
Also let us ignore the fact that Novell is not SCO [linux-watch.com] or the Novell is also interested in seeing that the deal is coplying with the GPL [vnunet.com]
Also let us forget all the Novell suported projects [vnunet.com]
It is great to so that people are not realy pro Linux, but are rather anti-Microsoft.
Yes, we should watch the deal closely and decide when things go wrong. To decide now will not do anybody any good, execpt perhaps RedHat, who are happily joining in the FUD for obvious reasons.
Oh, this was all sarcastic.