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Apple and Windows Will Force Linux Underground

Posted by CmdrTaco on Wed Aug 30, 2006 08:25 AM
from the still-neat-on-the-server-right dept.
eastbayted writes "Tom Yager at InfoWorld predicts: 'At the end of the decade, we'll find that Apple UNIX has overtaken commercial Linux as the second most popular general client and server computing platform behind Windows.' That's not a gloom-and-doom omen for the ever-popular Linux kernel, though, he stresses. While Apple and Microsoft will grapple for dominance of client and server spaces, Linux will be 'the de facto choice for embedded solutions.' And by 'embedded,' Yager means 'specialized.' With a push of a button and a flip of switch, he predicts, you'll be able to create a configured database and a mated J2EE server — all thanks to Linux."
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  • Not really (Score:5, Funny)

    by 2.7182 (819680) on Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:27AM (#16006757)
    Linux was designed for the cheapskate, to download as much free porn as possible. Nothing stops porn, and the need for people to have it for free. Not to mention free software - the two are the yin and yang of the internet.
  • Embedded. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by HugePedlar (900427) on Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:28AM (#16006769)
    (http://businessential.co.uk/)
    Well, whatever may or may not happen on the desktop, I sure would rather see Linux dominating the embedded market than Windows or Apple. The whole concept of embedded Windows seems ugly to me - like dressing up a nightclub bouncer in a pixie costume.
  • Except for the fact (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:29AM (#16006776)
    OSX is a vendor lock-in solution, and not many people like that.
    OSX is substantially slower on most benchmarks than Linux and Windows.

    OSX isn't a serious solution.

    -bms20
    • Re:Except for the fact (Score:4, Insightful)

      by fistfullast33l (819270) on Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:42AM (#16006879)
      (http://www.digitalplight.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday September 27, @10:26AM)
      Not to mention that you have a hardware lock-in because Apple probably won't support you if you use hardware other than what they sell. Add to that the expense of purchasing an Apple versus a Dell server and I think this is a gigantic laugh of an article. Plus, now that Apple is using Intel hardware, the whole maintence argument that Apple parts last longer is out the window.

      If you want to talk about Apple on the desktop versus Linux then I'd listen to the argument, but in the server world you can't compete. I really just wanted to respond to this article with a gigantic Simpson-esque "HA HA".
      [ Parent ]
      • I really just wanted to respond to this article with a gigantic Simpson-esque "HA HA".

        Indeed - it's ridiculous. You notice the weasel way they have to qualify things as well:

        By mid-2008, Apple's sales of systems with factory-installed Apple UNIX will exceed the total combined sales of x86 systems factory-shipped with commercial Linux.

        That could mean that 90% of x86 systems will be bare bones by 2008, as OEMs will choose their own version of linux to install ;-)
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:Except for the fact by 10Ghz (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:09AM
      • Re:Except for the fact (Score:4, Funny)

        by Prof.Phreak (584152) on Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:12AM (#16007099)
        (http://www.theparticle.com/)
        ...but but but... they're so cute. The server may not be fast (nor cheap)---in fact, it may not even work at all---but it will be the cutest server in the whole datacenter (the one and only reason why people like Apple).
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:Except for the fact (Score:5, Insightful)

        by soft_guy (534437) on Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:16AM (#16007133)
        Not to mention that you have a hardware lock-in because Apple probably won't support you if you use hardware other than what they sell.

        There's no "probably" to it. Why would Apple support something they didn't sell? They don't qualify MacOS X to run on anything but their own hardware. This is not to desparage Apple - it is their business model.

        Oh, you do realize that the entire article is just a troll to get Mac fans and Linux fans angry at each other, right? There is no factual basis for this arguments presented in the article at all.
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:Except for the fact by Doctor Memory (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:02AM
      • Re:Except for the fact by Saint Fnordius (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:34AM
      • Re:Except for the fact by LWATCDR (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:46AM
      • Re:Except for the fact (Score:4, Informative)

        by hector_uk (882132) on Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:26AM (#16007215)
        yes, of cource i'm the flaimbait when the parent is the one with many outraged responces due to his FUD, and it's entirely my fault for pointing out that he's posting completely incorrect information http://www.barefeats.com/bootcamp.html [barefeats.com] OS X is faster than windows http://www.macworld.com/2006/08/opinion/dellmacpro followup/index.php [macworld.com] Macs are in general cheaper or about the same price as equally configured pc's, though this is a hard thing to do if you put some work in to find a truly equally specced machine apples come out cheaper. and the argument about reliable hardware is moot, apple has not switched manufacturers, they still use asus and foxconn, they still use the same high quality pcb and they design all their own motherboards the same as before, the only difference is they order the cpu and chipset from intel instead of IBM/motorola. Some of those things may of been true of apple 10 years ago, but people need to open their eyes and quit with the blind faith, I run OS X windows and linux and each has their advantages, to label OS X a bloated toy thats not a real option is naive.
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:Except for the fact (Score:4, Insightful)

        by ScriptedReplay (908196) on Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:50AM (#16007409)
        I know you're just flamming, but hey, you made my morning laugh. So ...

        try actually configuring an equal dell to any mac and it'll come up more or it'll have a serious disadvantage, like a laptop being 2" thick with a 45 min battery life, try acctually checking the facts before posting apple flaimbait as the mac pro and soon to be released xserve are very economic choices.


        What's that about laptops again? the GP was talking servers, are you running your servers on MacBooks? And speaking of facts-checking, do show me a 4P+ XServe, please. I'll not even ask for heavy-hitter systems with almost everything being hot-pluggable. Yeah, XServe is a very economic choice - if money is your main concern.

        And to justify my 4P request - the hot thing nowadays is server virtualisation (you know, more efficient use of resources and all that jazz) and 4P-8P systems are just what the doctor ordered. Running ... you guessed it, not OSX (Linux and Solaris, most typically)

        apple has always been reasonably priced they just appear expensive due to the face they don't do the low end tower which best buy flogs for $299

        Again, you seem slightly confused about what server hardware is. Let me fix that for you: "Apple does flog low-end servers (well, they will as soon as they start shipping xserves) at $2999". The funny thing is, Linux is making a killing in that market and Apple has nothing to stop it.
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:Except for the fact by EastCoastSurfer (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:01AM
      • Re:Except for the fact (Score:5, Funny)

        by Lactoso (853587) on Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:09AM (#16007564)
        (http://www.lactoso.com/)
        Not to worry AC, the Linux mods have finally rolled out of bed. :-)
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:Except for the fact by Gilmoure (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:30AM
      • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Except for the fact by ZachPruckowski (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:44AM
    • Re:Except for the fact (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Jeppe Salvesen (101622) on Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:50AM (#16006950)
      Vendor lock-in is something I'm willing to live with as long as the alternatives are insufficient - and there is an alternative. I'd like the choice to be between OSX and Linux. I quite like my MacBook. It's easy to use, it looks good, it performs well for its price. While I do Linux development at work, I like to have an enjoyable experience at home.

      Slower than Linux or Windows? I'd like to see those numbers, please!

      As for serious, by what standard? I'd readily admit I would not recommend running OSX on servers unless OSX adds geniune value (as it might in a Mac-based business).

      In my world, Linux is best for backend. OSX is best for front-end. (while Windows is probably best at the standard business desktop)
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Except for the fact (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ElleyKitten (715519) <kittensunriseNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:54AM (#16006974)
      (Last Journal: Monday September 11 2006, @09:36AM)
      OSX is a vendor lock-in solution, and not many people like that.
      Most people get into a vendor lock-in solution without knowing or caring. The only people who wouldn't consider OSX because of vender lock-in have already switched to Linux (or BSD, or whatever)

      OSX is substantially slower on most benchmarks than Linux and Windows.
      Yeah, and if companies can save money on technical staff by having an OS that's more user friendly, they'll do that. That means more to most businesses than benchmarks.

      OSX isn't a serious solution.
      OSX is a potential solution to anyone using Windows who doesn't like it. It's more secure, more stable, and doesn't require the technical retraining (or rehiring) that a migration to Linux would. Sure, some people and companies require more power and freedom than OSX has, but many don't. As OSX becomes more popular for personal use, it will become more popular for business use.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Except for the fact by hector_uk (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:56AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Except for the fact by 12ahead (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:00AM
    • The myth of vendor lock in. (Score:5, Insightful)

      I often read about vendor lock in, and wonder if people actually realise what they are saying.

      ANY choice made in IT means some kind of lock-in. If I go all OSS I lock myself into something else. Of course one could argue that with OSS you can alwais "fix or change it yourself", but then again, most companies and users do not want to do that, they want to use functionality. By chosing OSS you lock yourself into that path, which is effectively no different from the vendor path.

      Sometimes it can me more cost effective to do this, sometimes the option with "evil vendor lock in" is actually more cost effective.

      The longer I am in IT the more just pick the tool for the fucntion. looking at the staff available, strategy of the company etc..

      Vendor lock in as such is a myth, there is alwais a path that's being closed with every choice of tool...

      To be honest, in a lot of cases MS actually provides a good sollution...
      [ Parent ]
    • by Savage-Rabbit (308260) on Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:03AM (#16007032)
      Weeee... another troll.... Who modded this up?

      OSX is a vendor lock-in solution, and not many people like that.

      It's still more Open Source [macosforge.org] than Windows.

      OSX is substantially slower on most benchmarks than Linux and Windows.

      On the server?
      On the destkop?
      Care to elaborate?
      Links perhaps?

      OSX isn't a serious solution.

      Really?!?! Based on all the facts you provided I suppose we will have to believe you!
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Except for the fact by Marcion (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:04AM
    • Re:Except for the fact by Bastian (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:09AM
    • Re:Except for the fact by dema (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:16AM
    • Re:Except for the fact (Score:5, Funny)

      by Luscious868 (679143) on Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:20AM (#16007171)
      Cars are a vendor lock in solution, and not many people like that. Cars are slower than flying. Cars aren't a serious solution.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Except for the fact by Oz0ne (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:25AM
    • Re:Except for the fact by ratloko2 (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:32AM
    • And except for this.. by winkydink (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:09AM
    • Apple doing to Linux what Linux did to MS ... by AHumbleOpinion (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @11:09AM
    • Re:Except for the fact by burnin1965 (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @01:59PM
    • Re:Except for the fact by hotfireball (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:48PM
    • 6 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Is this bad? by joshetc (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:29AM
    • Re:Is this bad? by kfg (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:40AM
    • Re:Is this bad? (Score:4, Informative)

      by eln (21727) * on Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:44AM (#16006904)
      Well, it's bad in that it's based on fiction. First of all, Linux was not "made" for the embedded market, because the embedded market didn't really exist in any meaningful way when Linux was created. Linux happens to do well in embedded devices because it's so highly customizable (without cumbersome licensing costs).

      He also mentions the idea of "embedded" Oracle and IBM databases. While this idea might work in a limited capacity for small businesses, it just doesn't fly for the enterprise clients, which are those companies' bread and butter. Enterprise clients wants to customize EVERYTHING. Trying to sell them a push-button cookie cutter solution just isn't going to fly. It's been tried, and it hasn't worked. You sell them a cookie cutter solution, and by the time you're done making everything just the way they want it, it would have been far cheaper and easier to just start out building a customized solution to begin with.

      As for Apple taking over in the server space, I haven't seen anything to indicate that. No one I know even mentions Apple as a general server solution, much less gives any serious thought to it. Where I work now, we have tens of thousands of servers, 90% of which are running Linux. The remainder are running Solaris and HP-UX, with a very small number running other proprietary Unix-based systems or Windows. None of them are Apples.

      Also, all of our systems are sold to us without an OS, and we install our own custom images on to them, so they wouldn't show up in pre-installed system sales. I would imagine most data centers and large hosting environments would be doing the same thing.
      [ Parent ]
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • What he really means by neonprimetime (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:29AM
  • overtaking linux at whose expense (Score:5, Insightful)

    by kabloom (755503) on Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:30AM (#16006783)
    (http://www.iit.edu/~kbloom1/)
    Apple UNIX will overtake Linux at the expense of whose market share? Windows? or Linux?

    And have they figured out how to count Linux installations yet? (A very hard problem since you can just download Linux off the internet for free, so there are many more ways to get it)
  • skewed vision? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Recovering Hater (833107) on Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:31AM (#16006789)
    I can't help but think this guy got all hyped up because of an Apple conference and just had to gush over it in print. Not to sound flamish or trollish, but what he fails to take into account is that Linux is seldom sold pre-installed. People generally buy the machine they want and then install linux post purchase. It is short sighted to only take sales into account when comparing OS use.
  • My prediction (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:32AM (#16006793)
    In the year 2010, all of the worlds money will be replaced by toilet paper. "Stay lonely" will be the new "goodbye". Apple pie is no longer American, being bought out by the Canadians. Google releases new TattooSense, paying people to get chest-and-back tattoos of ads. George Bush, in a hostile take over, becomes King of the Planet and enslaves all of humanity. He uses his new slave army to move Mt. Everest -- mumbling something about proving an interviewer wrong. Donkey Kong is brought back to life, only to be shot three days later after going nuts in a barrel factory.

    ADD rocks.
  • Not following the "logic". (Score:5, Insightful)

    by khasim (1285) <brandioch.conner@gmail.com> on Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:34AM (#16006806)
    Despite the way most professional and commercial buyers see it, Linux is, as a colleague helpfully reminded me, a kernel, not an application platform. Linux is a backplane for device drivers, file systems, protocol stacks and low-level programming interfaces. It is a substructure for application services.
    And that is different from any other OS ... how?

    Apple's UNIX (who knows what it'll be called by then) will overtake commercial Linux in rate of revenue growth by the end of 2007. By mid-2008, Apple's sales of systems with factory-installed Apple UNIX will exceed the total combined sales of x86 systems factory-shipped with commercial Linux. At the end of the decade, we'll find that Apple UNIX has overtaken commercial Linux as the second most popular general client and server computing platform behind Windows.
    Why?

    You're making "predictions" without explaining the "logic" behind them. Why will all those countries / governments / cities currently deploying Linux drop it?

    If they don't drop it, why will other ones go with Apple?

    I believe Big Software vendors such as IBM and Oracle will use Linux to give unwieldy enterprise solutions the George Jetson treatment: Push a button, you've got an enterprise database, configured, loaded with sample data and listening for connections. Want a J2EE server with that? Flip this switch, it'll unpack itself, sniff out that database you installed and mate with it.
    And this will fail to drive Linux adoption ... why?

    If anything, that would seem to me to be something that would drive Linux adoption.
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • In other news... by gorrepati (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:34AM
  • Current Commercial Investments (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Falconwmua (537564) on Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:34AM (#16006809)
    Considering the number of enterprise companies that have invested in Linux and do exert some influence over kernel development(IBM, Oracle) and I don't see Apple letting Dell, HP, or IBM build XServes I don't see this happening. Does Apple make a good, stable product? Yes. Is their client (desktop version) more user friendly than Windows or Linux at this point? Yes (I use all 3, Macbook being less than a month). Will Apple carve out a decent chunk in a few different markets? I hope so but I don't see them moving linux out of the data center.
  • I don't mind that prediction at all... by bangenge (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:35AM
  • Hahahahahahahahahaah ahahah hahhah hahahah ha ......
  • O RLY? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by $RANDOMLUSER (804576) on Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:38AM (#16006842)
    From TFA:
    ...there is exactly one Linux. It's a standard....
    ...I believe ... IBM and Oracle will use Linux to ... Push a button, you've got an enterprise database...

    Have you ever tried to get Oracle running on anything but Red Hat? When are we going to face the fact that Linux distros are different from each other? When I say "I run Linux" I've really said something as vague as (here comes the car analogy) "I drive a car" (as opposed to "I drive an Oldsmobile"). When people pick on "Linux" what are they really picking on?
    • Re:O RLY? by abrotman (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:47AM
    • Re:O RLY? by JFMulder (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:55AM
      • Re:O RLY? by PCM2 (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @12:37PM
        • Re:O RLY? by JFMulder (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @02:16PM
          • Re:O RLY? by PCM2 (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @03:25PM
            • Re:O RLY? by JFMulder (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @05:26PM
    • Re:O RLY? by pyite (Score:3) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:57AM
    • Re:O RLY? by Prof.Phreak (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:17AM
    • Re:O RLY? by andphi (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:53AM
    • Re:O RLY? by bhalter80 (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @12:51PM
  • Yeah, maybe in a web monkey's dev lab by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:38AM
  • Nope by toochoos (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:40AM
    • Re:Nope by Clazzy (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:15AM
    • Re:Nope by CatOne (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:15AM
    • Re:Nope by soft_guy (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:37AM
      • Re:Nope by toochoos (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:50AM
    • Re:Nope by WaterDamage (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @11:03AM
  • Entrenched in Serverland by GreggBz (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:41AM
  • Wrong by KeithCu (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:41AM
  • Apple Picking by mhazen (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:41AM
  • I disagree by Pao|o (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:42AM
    • Re:I disagree by Pao|o (Score:1) Thursday August 31 2006, @12:29AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Reality Check: No change here. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Oz0ne (13272) on Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:42AM (#16006884)
    (http://www.makesitgood.net/)
    Linux *is* underground for all intents and purposes. Ask a bloke on the street if they've heard of Linux. If they're not in IT, web design, or a related field chances are they have not.

    Ask a bloke on the street if they've heard of windows, or apple. Even if they don't own a computer, they probably have.

    Linux has made great strides in the past 10 years, but let's not confuse what it is. Linux is the survivalist to windows' soccer mom.
  • Just wondering... by rchatterjee (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:43AM
  • ramble ramble by hyperbotfly (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:44AM
  • O RLY? by A.K.A_Magnet (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:44AM
    • Re:O RLY? by CatOne (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:19AM
      • Re:O RLY? by A.K.A_Magnet (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:17AM
        • Re:O RLY? by CatOne (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @12:00PM
      • Re:O RLY? by ratboy666 (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:30AM
      • Re:O RLY? by prockcore (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @12:16PM
  • Dream on... by ragoutoutou76 (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:44AM
  • by Laxitive (10360) on Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:46AM (#16006912)
    (Last Journal: Saturday May 22 2004, @12:57PM)
    In the future, no-one will wear pants! The pantsaphogia virus, to be engineered by terrorists in 1999, will leave us all restricted to wearing breezy summer dresses or short-shorts.

    In the future, the only colors allowed will be those based on citrus. This will be mandated by the Tangerine Council world government, headquartered in Morocco. In an effort to reintroduce all the beautiful colors of the world into human products, scientists will genetically engineer strains of lemon with tunable 48-bit color, with the exception of mauve, and there will be much rejoicing.

    In the future, spammers will form a revolutionary movement to fight for their right to speech, and incite a rebellion. The rebellion will be crushed mercilessly, but create the foundations for the great Spam Wars of 2015.

    That's all for now.

    -Laxitive
  • Developing world? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jschottm (317343) on Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:46AM (#16006916)
    As the second and third world countries continue to develop, they will increasingly use computers. Apple's market strategy cannot support that need - a company whose main desktop starts at $2500 just can't work in a country where the average worker makes that in a year. Even a Mac Mini is far beyond the reach of most people and companies in that area. On the other hand, those people will be far more likely to use recycled low-end x86 systems and inexpensive RISC systems (China's homegrown chip springs to mind) and the OS of choice on those systems will be Windows (quite likely pirated), Linux, or xBSD. That will create both a huge user and developer base for Linux.

    The article also fails to explain why companies such as IBM and HP, who've invested much in the server side of Linux, would just walk away from that investment. I'm sure that IBM consultants will sell Apple products in the times where they are the exclusive fit for the need, but they can't control or steer Apple's direction the way they can Linux, which is one reason they push it so hard.
  • Duh (Score:4, Insightful)

    by CaptainZapp (182233) * on Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:47AM (#16006918)
    (http://etoy.com/)
    Apple's UNIX (who knows what it'll be called by then) will overtake commercial Linux in rate of revenue growth by the end of 2007.

    Well duh, Apple OSX (or whatever it's called by then) costs 100$. Ubuntu Linux (for example) is free as in gratis. How many Ubuntu licenses do you have to sell to reach the revenue of one "Apple Unix" license?

    By mid-2008, Apple's sales of systems with factory-installed Apple UNIX will exceed the total combined sales of x86 systems factory-shipped with commercial Linux.

    That's very well possible, since there are hardly any systems (specifically in the Desktop realm) which come pre-installed with Linx. Usually you flatten the hard disk of a Windows taxed box, or you build from scratch if you want to run Linux.

    You sir are either dim, dishonest or just a plain old idiot.

    • Re:Duh by arkanoid.dk (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:49AM
  • Not Likely by mhazen (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:48AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • letting accountants define tech trends .... by petes_PoV (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:48AM
  • Different parts of an expanding market by m0llusk (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:49AM
  • US-centric outlook (Score:5, Insightful)

    by non (130182) on Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:49AM (#16006945)
    (http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Wednesday August 15, @03:31PM)
    His opinion only reflects corporate/consumer use in the US. In the rest of the world Linux use is growing at the expense of Windows.
  • Sure, maybe, doubt it. by KlomDark (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:50AM
  • Why Don't These Guys Just Hold Up A Sign? by psbrogna (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:53AM
  • I disagree... by Daytona955i (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @08:58AM
  • Can't afford it... by Frosty Piss (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:02AM
  • Hmmm... by 10Ghz (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:03AM
    • Re:Hmmm... by shaneh0 (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:18AM
    • Re:Hmmm... by 10Ghz (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:22AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Hmmm... by 14CharUsername (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:04AM
  • The AOTFA misses the point by Dystopian Rebel (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:04AM
  • hrmm i dunno by Danzigism (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:05AM
  • This is YOUR fault (Score:5, Insightful)

    by shaneh0 (624603) on Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:08AM (#16007076)
    I've been a slashdotter for a long time. Not a beginner, but certainly not a newbie. Check out my number.

    When I found this place I didn't even know how to SAY linux. I said it "LINE-ix."

    Over the past 6 or 7 years I've heard a ton of predictions about linux breaking into the home market. A million reasons have been given, and later, a million excuses.

    I use linux lightly in my (development) job. I'm occassionaly tasked to do website stuff and all of our webservers run LAMP.

    I enjoy using it. Partly because I'm an elitist prick who likes things that other people don't know much about. Also because it's sort of straight-forward. Things are a heirarchy, not an unorganized collection of windows, tabs, dialogs, and buttons.

    I enjoy windows, as well. I make a living developing windows software. And there is absolutely no question in my mind that for the huge portion of users, Windows is a superior platform to Linux. If for no other reason then it's actually USABLE by mortals.

    My point in this is not to make 1000 people hate me. My point is that SOMEONE needs to do to linux what NeXT/Apple has done to BSD.

    Yes, I know that Linux has shells, but these are after-thoughts. They don't come close to the experience of OSX or even Windows XP.

    If all the OSS guys HATE microsoft so much, and they think Microsoft sucks so badly, then why the hell can't they build an OS that is actually able to beat windows at its own game?

    The strength of Linux is in it's stable and secure kernel and low-level "plumbing." The same as BSD. An OS that includes a "Windows" experience on top of this solid foundation would for teh first time attract real attention and a real user base.

    I know this isn't easy, but look at all the time you've had. People slam MSFT for taking 6 years to put out a consumer OS. How is it better to take six years to NOT put out a consumer OS?

    Right now Linux is like a Hamm Radio. Adored by hobbyists but foreign to the public. Everyone has a radio, but it's closed-source. They can't tinker with it. They can't do much at all, except press its buttons and turn its dials. The Hamm operators know that their setup is superior, but that's a fact that's lost on the population as a whole.

    I would LOVE to have a real alternative to Windows. But I don't. Maybe I never will, at least not in the form of linux. But the way people grasp linux with religious fervor makes me wonder why they don't do what it takes to actually build it into a windows-killer.

    Maybe linux-devs and linux-fans really don't want to supplant Windows. As crazy as that sounds, I think it has some merit. What I'm suggesting is that you work to "dumb down" linux a bit. Build a linux that appeals to the novice. But I think the linux camp is waiting for the novices to "smarten up" and adopt linux. I just don't think that's ever going to happen.

    Before you slam me, understand that I'm advocating linux. Yes, I'm criticizing the Linux community, but I'm doing it because I (somewhat) agree with the goals of that community.

    I would love to see a world where Windows has a 75% market share.
  • About Tom Yager by Clueless Nick (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:09AM
  • What's that when it's at home? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) (613870) on Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:09AM (#16007084)
    (Last Journal: Monday January 06 2003, @10:36PM)
    And by "embedded," Yager means "specialized." With a push of a button and a flip of switch, he predicts you'll be able to create a configured database and a mated J2EE server -- all thanks to Linux."
    I've done a bit of embedded work myself. Driving hardware from microcontrollers, communicating via SPI ports, sampling A to D comverters, even hacking small linux boxes. And in all that time I've never had a need for a database mated with a J2EE server. In fact, despite playing with embedded systems, 20 years programming experience and currently being a Linux developer, I have no idea what such a beast is. Since when did "embedded" come to mean something that sounds like the kind of weenie stuff ecommerce people might use?
  • Have you thought about support... by martonlorand (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:12AM
  • Missed the point by pravuil (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:12AM
  • I less than balanced opinion I suspect... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:13AM
  • Where is my crystal ball? by Snotman (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:18AM
  • I rather think otherwise by wysiwia (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:19AM
  • Lacking perspective by johnlittledotorg (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:22AM
  • its about choice! by asv108 (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:26AM
  • Uh, I didn't know linux had come... by Snotman (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:26AM
  • In the Server room? Not anytime soon. by caseih (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:32AM
  • re by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:38AM
  • Is he living in a bubble? by InsaneProcessor (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:41AM
  • If by embedded you mean bubblepack computing by monopole (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:48AM
  • OS X = Crap by pele_smk (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:52AM
  • wtf by Intangion (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:52AM
  • Apple and Windows Will Force Linux Underground? by uncoveror (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:54AM
  • Can we get some new editors? by xoundmind (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:59AM
  • Another avenue for Linux to expand by Aram Fingal (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:02AM
  • Linux grows without market pressure by GodWasAnAlien (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:02AM
  • What a Useless Article (Score:3, Informative)

    by segedunum (883035) on Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:04AM (#16007519)
    (http://ponsaelius.blogspot.com/)
    I'm not the biggest optimist for Linux, especially on the desktop, but this article is just ludicrous:

    By mid-2008, Apple's sales of systems with factory-installed Apple UNIX will exceed the total combined sales of x86 systems factory-shipped with commercial Linux. At the end of the decade, we'll find that Apple UNIX has overtaken commercial Linux as the second most popular general client and server computing platform behind Windows.

    And what the fuck is that based on? Fresh air? Given the fact that Apple has showed no signs of being able to get this mass growth at any stage, largely because, oh err, they have their own proprietary hardware which can't hope to compete with the massive supply of the Windows and x86 Linux world......... Everybody who knows anything about the computing world, and professes to write about it, should know this.

    Push a button, you've got an enterprise database, configured, loaded with sample data and listening for connections. Want a J2EE server with that? Flip this switch, it'll unpack itself, sniff out that database you installed and mate with it....Plug in a drive, and within a few milliseconds you have a self-contained instance of an enterprise application. If you need more database instances, put in a blank flash drive and tell the existing database instance to replicate itself.

    There are no words.

    Jesus H. Christ. I'm definitely in the wrong job. Feel free to sign me up for a job as an online 'technical' journalist where I can stick my finger in the air and throw whatever shit that comes my way from the pulpit.
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • this supposes OLPC will fail by Jecel Assumpcao Jr (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:05AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • I don't think so. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by sloth jr (88200) on Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:07AM (#16007544)
    Much as I love MacOS X, Apple is clearly committed to a war on the desktop front, not the server space. For boring ol' mission-critical server apps, Linux is likely to keep its fingers in that particular pie for some time to come, wrestling with Windows.
  • Embedded solutions don't use J2EE by kahei (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:14AM
  • "Apple UNIX " no competition for the Real Thing by clang_jangle (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:18AM
  • Mac seems to be in trouble, not linux by sgholt (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:21AM
  • All this managerial one-button solve everything BS by PrescriptionWarning (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:21AM
  • ignorance by jafac (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:36AM
  • Carefully worded to include Mac desktops.... by rklrkl (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:37AM
  • Commercial Linux? by DragonWriter (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:40AM
  • Multimedia by Shawn is an Asshole (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:43AM
  • Apple "server" platform??? by fahrbot-bot (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:46AM
  • I truely think by fululian (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @10:54AM
  • Linux kernel is anti-embedded by applix7 (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @11:04AM
  • US vs global trends by infofc (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @11:06AM
  • Columnists need readers for their money, Not Truth by geohump (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @11:10AM
  • A true dilemma by CustSerAssassin (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @11:19AM
  • what? by Mister Whirly (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @11:20AM
  • Think Before Speaking by Petersko (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @11:25AM
  • I'm not sure why he thinks OS X has a big future in the server market.

    * It doesn't run on generic server hardware, like all of its competition do.
    * It's much easier to administer through a command line than Windows, but far harder than any other modern UNIX platform.
    * It shares Windows' poor support for "headless" operation.
    * It is missing a lot of APIs that its competitors have retained, including the ability to easily run native servers chrooted and standard UNIX tape drive interfaces.
    * The native file system, HFS+, is far more fragile and easily damaged than the typical modern UNIX file system like UFS. It doesn't have Linux' wide variety of file system support.
    * Its NFS support is extremely nonstandard, and running a normal automounter on it is a recipe for disaster.
    * It's missing the "super-chroots": things like FreeBSD's jails and similar facilities in Linux that give you the encapsulation advantages of virtualization without the overhead.
    * The Mach kernel still gives it far more system call overhead than its competitors.

    All in all, OS X is a mediocre server platform when compared to other variants of UNIX, even if the inability to run it on generic hardware wasn't holding it back.
  • Funniest part of this debate.. by bealzabobs_youruncle (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @11:50AM
  • This is a story HOW? by Gorshkov (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @11:53AM
  • Linux counter stable or downward.. by totierne (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @11:56AM
  • XNU not fast enough for server market by mclaincausey (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @12:05PM
  • Tom Yager at InfoWorld by glenfahan (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @12:06PM
  • Client - maybe (it's already way behind), server n by melted (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @12:10PM
  • Sadly, I'm inclined to agree by KeithH (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @12:21PM
  • Yager is the ultimate Mac fanboy by Master of Transhuman (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @12:22PM
  • Now I HAVE to switch by just_forget_it (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @12:28PM
  • In a decade the Desktop platform will be dead by SlOrbA (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @12:29PM
  • Interesting point but the article is empty... by flibuste (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @12:43PM
  • Divide and conquer by TheEnlightenedOne (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @12:46PM
  • client AND server? by Frightening (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @01:22PM
  • I'm the Peacemaker by wmaster (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @01:34PM
  • yeah, right by oohshiny (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @02:00PM
    • Re:yeah, right by oohshiny (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @02:07PM
  • Ignoring the resourceful by deckert_za (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @02:13PM
  • Not so fast there, slim by tacocat (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @02:27PM
  • How does "embedded" = "underground?" by frdmfghtr (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @02:28PM
  • And that's not all... by mdavids (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @05:58PM
  • Force underground? by I Like Pudding (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @07:23PM
  • Tom Yager gets into the GOOD stuff by ewe2 (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @07:52PM
  • Someone needs a reality check... by mdhoover (Score:1) Wednesday August 30 2006, @11:26PM
  • Yager Misunderstands 90% of the market by geohump (Score:1) Thursday August 31 2006, @01:52PM
  • Every time you install Linux by LRBenson (Score:1) Thursday August 31 2006, @07:04PM
  • Yager's an Apple Zealot (and an idiot). by ralfalot (Score:1) Friday September 01 2006, @01:30PM
  • Re:Linux pushed off the desktop, not the server by dhasenan (Score:2) Wednesday August 30 2006, @09:16AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • 22 replies beneath your current threshold.
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