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ODF Offers MS Word Plugin to MA
Posted by
Zonk
on Thu May 04, 2006 09:25 AM
from the state-has-a-friend dept.
from the state-has-a-friend dept.
Goalie_Ca writes "Groklaw just posted that the OpenDocument Foundation is offering Massachusetts a plugin that could 'allow Microsoft Office to easily open, render, and save to ODF files, and also allow translation of documents between Microsoft's binary (.doc, .xls, .ppt) or XML formats and ODF ... The testing has been extensive and thorough. As far as we can tell there isn't a problem, even with Accessibility add ons, which as you know is a major concern for Massachusetts.'"
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Don't worry (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Don't worry (Score:4, Funny)
From the old days: "DOS ain't done 'till Lotus won't run".
Re:Don't worry (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.proudlyserving.com/archives/2005/08/dos _aint_done_t.html [proudlyserving.com]
Which is really the reason why Windows is so buggy and unstable - they have/had to support all the OLD bugs and undefined
Re:Don't worry (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Don't worry (Score:4, Interesting)
If MS wanted to, they could very easily have added such functionality to Word themselves. The fact that they haven't offered to do so highlights to importance they attach to keepinig people locked into *.doc and now OpenXML.
In some ways, this plugin might undermine OpenDocument since it might provide a way for MS to keep their foot in the door, which they will likely exploit to "convert" customers back to using proprietry formats.
However, I think that whilst it helps with using OpenDocument with MS Word, Excel is still a "killer app" that makes switching to competing office products difficult. There are a lot of companies that ship products that include Excel documents with macros as part of their product. Whilst these don't work with competing products (such as StarOffice/OpenOffice.org), then Excel retains the upper hand.
[going off on a tangent here...] it might be better to build an OpenOffice.org API wrapper for MS Office? That way, a company wanting to produce a spreadsheet with macro functionality, could create one for OOo, and use this [hypothetical] API wrapper to make the macros work with MS Office.
Or somthing!
(I'm thinking out loud here).
Re:Don't worry (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Don't worry (Score:3, Insightful)
(Almost) nobody uses MS Office because of it's features, (almost) everybody uses it because - well - everybody uses it and the file format is the standard.
So the standard is the most important thing here.
This plugin eases the migration path to ODF
Re:Don't worry (Score:4, Informative)
Not that Office invented the concept of plug-ins, but it probably is one of the most used targets for plug-ins there is. From CRM systems, advanced securities pricing models, Adobe Acrobat, etc, etc, etc, etc. There are TONs of plug-ins and MS explicitly built thier framework to encourage this.
Isn't that pretty much what the whole Open Doc format debate was about after all? While there may be technical ways to get through Microsoft's bullshit formats, the patent threats may make it illegal to do so.
Not an issue in this case. Just like Adobe's plug-ins which can convert and Office documents to thier format, this plug-in I'm sure won't even bother messing with the raw binary data. Just open the document in the Office application and then each application exposes a friendly API to be able to play with, convert, ect, etc the document all you want. No need to even consider the underlieing documents format (in fact would be quite silly to) just use the API provided.
Re:Don't worry (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you forgot a "not" in there somewhere.
Sounds great... (Score:5, Interesting)
At the same time though... this does conceivably give more power to Redmond as there is now less incentive for MA to leave the Windows/Office platform.
Re:Sounds great... (Score:5, Insightful)
The desired effect would be to allow a gradual trasition that would be easier to swallow than a all-at-once changeover.
Re:Sounds great... (Score:3, Insightful)
Not necessarily. I may also make the transition easier. First everyone just save to ODF, then the switch
Re:Sounds great... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's definitely true that it's open STANDARDS that matter. There is, however, a large pitfall: Don't let vendors like Microsoft redefine what an open standard actually is. They tried a little while ago, with their previous office XML standard...
- Vegard
Re:Sounds great... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Sounds great... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Sounds great... (Score:3, Insightful)
There is also another inherent danger in choosing the Microsoft standard
Re:Sounds great... (Score:5, Insightful)
If a simple plugin can allow MSOffice to use ODF, there is then no argument whatsoever for MA to use Microsoft's proprietary formats, which really do shut out all non-Microsoft users.
Why MS should have supported ODF (Score:5, Insightful)
Now there's interoperability with no revenue stream for Microsoft. Nice going, MS.
Re:Never an 'either-or' situation (Score:3, Insightful)
If you truly believe that Microsoft will actually release enough of
Re:Sounds great... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Sounds great... (Score:4, Informative)
So while I haven't tried this plugin, I find it entirely possible that it supports all or very nearly all Word features, allowing for open-standards interoperability without compromising the quality of the document. It also doesn't hurt that it's apparently implemented in terms of XSLT transforms -- translating OOo XML to Word XML.
Hilarious! (Score:5, Funny)
I love it.
Re:Hilarious! (Score:2)
Heh.. (Score:5, Funny)
too easy? (Score:4, Funny)
I've met plenty of people from Massachusetts. I can imagine the Accessibility add-ons would be crucial there.
So how the hell do we get the plugin? (Score:3, Insightful)
wtf is the point of posting something like this without a link?
wtf good is a plugin if no one can get it...
eesh
Re:So how the hell do we get the plugin? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:So how the hell do we get the plugin? (Score:3, Informative)
This time with help from ODF, (Score:4, Funny)
Re:This time with help from ODF, (Score:5, Informative)
No, this is not correct.
The Office division of Microsoft has long been one of their major profit centers. MS Office is also a bigger monopoly than Windows, having greater penetration in the market percentagewise. These facts stem from the ability to lock-in customers by holding their data hostage to a closed format.
This plug-in is a door to the world of non-MS Office products -- a way out, if you will. Yes, other office-type products exist, but none of them have gained serious traction because of the perceived lack of totally compatibility with MS
1. It will increase the market share of non-MS Office products at the expense of MS Office;
2. It will cause Microsoft to lower the price of MS Office to compete, thus lowering their profits on what is widely rumored to be their LARGEST profit center, Office.
-Charles
Let me see.... (Score:4, Interesting)
This foundation has decided to do so.
Kudos to them. They just proved that there is none of that so-called vendor lock-in.
Sure, it takes effort, but if you can be bothered to do it, it pays off.
Step program (Score:5, Insightful)
Why? The Catch 22 has been solved (we need MS vs. can't convert while using MS). And it's the bean counters that ultimately sway government decisions.
1) Plugin will be installed on gov pc's
2) Documents will be handled in ODF
3) Gov bean counters will be suggesting to managers everywhere they can save $XXXX if they use OpenOffice instead of MS Office
Re:Step program (Score:4, Insightful)
There is more to building a successful office suite than a choice of formats for storage, output and exchange.
Re:Step program (Score:3, Insightful)
After losing the "look and feel" lawsuit, Jobs said to Gates "But it will never be as good as ours." To which Gates replied "I doesn't have to be."
"Good enough" is pretty powe
Why isn't this available to everyone? (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously. I don't use MSOffice all that much, but have to constantly exchange .doc, .xls, etc. formats all the time with other people. For the most part, OO.o saves in these formats and opens in Office fine, as intended. Sometimes it doesn't though. If I could save in ODF format and include a plugin with the document itself, I would think that would be far more helpful in getting people to at least look at open source, rather than just pointing them to OO.o and saying "Install this".
Yeah but WHICH VERSION of office? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Yeah but WHICH VERSION of office? (Score:5, Insightful)
There are plenty of vendors that offer MS Office plugins that work across most versions, and the existence of these plugins is one of the reasons for the "MS Office lock-in". The plugins are NOT offered for other office suites (and this was one of MAs concerns; disability support plugins for MS Office that didn't translate well into other platforms).
The existence of these plugins makes MS Office a platform instead of simply a program. This plugin simply allows continued use of the platform where needed; yet allows competing product and platforms to coexist.
Note that conversion accuracy is no longer a concern:
Now, the plugin layer MUST be (reasonably) feature complete -- simply because if it is NOT, other plugins would suffer badly (eg. screen reader wouldn't be able to determine formatting, thus rendering difficulty to blind users of MS Office).
If you are paranoid about Microsoft, and think that the feature completeness of the plugin layer will or can be compromised -- that is very unlikely. Other plugins would also suffer, and government users would be forced to start looking at alternatives.
The existence of this plugin means that an ecosystem with both Microsoft and alternate vendors can be supported. Which is a good thing. Previously, the only way to use
I don't think it will hinder or improve MS Office sales at all, but it will make things possible that have been VERY difficult in the past.
I will start seeding the plugin as soon as I can!
Ratboy
Smart Move (Score:5, Insightful)
Especially if the new Office they release with Vista changes the interface considerably, and requires re-training anyways.
Of course, the next Office update will break the plugin. It'll be a cold day in hell before M$ can let this stand unchallenged.
That New Office Interface (Score:5, Informative)
Re:That New Office Interface (Score:3, Insightful)
Undo, for example, is not gone. There are toolbar buttons in the "quickbar" by default next to the big round button you seem to dislike s
Re:That New Office Interface (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:That New Office Interface (Score:3, Funny)
Open documents good (Score:4, Interesting)
Currently my office runs on M$ Office 2k3. We could easily switch to OpenOffice save one luser who creates every one of his spreadsheets using M$ specific formatting that throws the OO conversion tool for a loop. I would switch the rest of us but we all have to be able to access his documents as he is the shop manager and he gets cranky when people don't read his crap. Had I been here when the network was set up in the first place this would be a M$ free shop as Linux has all of the tools these lusers need in a default workstation install. So I am going to sit here patiently waiting to move everyone to Linux immediately after we can get ODF translations for all of his crap. At least I can move the website to a Slack server soon (after I weed out the useless ASP code). IIS is killing me
I am Microsoft Certified, which is why I use Linux.
Is there a blurb that one can post in the office? (Score:3, Interesting)
Hi,
I work in a fairly technical group, but many of my colleagues are quite ignorant about the problems of using proprietary standards (e.g., office) in their day-to-day life. When Firefox was released, I put up the copy of the New York times ad in the lounge and people noticed. I wondered if there is a similar blurb for ODF (or OpenOffice). Now seems to be the ideal time to make people aware of the choice and alternatives.
Is there a nice one-page (non-technical) write-up that clearly states why open standards (ODF) is better than closed standards controlled by evil monopolies (Microsoft's doc format)?
Aravind.
Why this is important (Score:4, Insightful)
My sweetheart works for a non-profit health agency in Massachusetts. Nearly all of his paperwork is in MS Word. Not that he has any particular feelings for or against MS Word, but because the Massachusetts Department of Public Health requires this.
Nearly every grant application, mandated report, etc. must be in MS Word "doc" format. Not plain text, not HTML, not SGML or XML or anything else, MS Word "doc" format. If it's not in MS Word "doc" format the state won't accept it and your grant application won't be received, your mandated reports not accepted, etc.
Sure other levels of state government are talking about adopting ODF, but that is just theory, until the state converts all of it's huge library of forms and applications, the paperwork that it all runs on, to something other then MS Word "doc", this is all theory. For that there will need to be a huge transition, and this sort of plugin is what can make it possible.
In the meantime all of the elaborate integration many of us take for granted, and that there are islands of in the state, and pockets of in state contractors, affiliated agencies, and the huge range of state-government dependent organizations, will be able to continue using MS Word in their established workflows.
Back to my sweetheart's agency, they do have a considerable investment in MS Word. Not just in licenses, they know MS Word. Their staff aren't computer geeks, indeed most of them only tolerate the crappy PCs they have now (running Windows 98) because they have to. But at least their fingers are trained to the keystrokes, they know the menu options, the more ambitious can even do a mail merge, lay out a flyer, etc.
Yes readers of /. think nothing of staring at an unfamiliar screen and working out how to do something with it; for a case manager trying to find a spot in a detox program for a 65 year old homeless woman who wants to get clean that is just not a hassle they want. Therefore anything that eases adopting open formats is a huge benefit, and critical to the process being painless and positive.
While many would like to hurt MS more of us really just want a level field and files that can be properly read a hundred years from now. Let applications and vendors come & go, lets at least have some durable file formats.
Re:Critical Update (Score:4, Insightful)
1) Embrace the plugin and create it as a standard feature of MS Office. Make sure this integration solution falls behind the standard and start including special Microsoft initiated ideas. When standards people complain about the new features, yell at them stating that the standard people are holding the product back from its true capabilities that customers keep demanding of Microsoft.
2) Include a warning message when loading or saving documents to special plugins that they may include viruses, have missing features, or that data may be lost. If people complain, Microsoft will state that feature X in Word is not in the standard.
Re:Brace for an [Office] upgrade (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course, if MA passed a statute stating that government agencies had to use open documen
Re:"MA" is a postal code, but... (Score:3, Funny)
You're not from Mass
Re:"The job's not done..." (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:DMCA (Score:4, Informative)
You own the DVD. You do not own the copyright on the DVD. Therefore CSS is a system for protecting a copyright that you do not own.