How Open Source is Faring in Retail

SilentBob4 writes to tell us MadPenguin is running the first of two articles taking a look at the 'world of retail as Tux is experiencing it'. From the article: "Of the stores we visited, only Linspire Linux was sold pre-installed on computers in-store. Those FOSS boxes were often among the store's best volume sellers, primarily because they were the cheapest, according to store staff. The staff believed, based on conversations with frequent customers, that most customers were buying the boxes to install Windows on them. But that is not surprising to us, because, as we discuss in section two, brick-and-mortar "computer" stores are still part of the Microsoft distribution chain. The fact that there were some open source products at all in these stores is actually surprising, as Microsoft guards its distribution chain jealously, and punishes those business partners who stray into carrying FOSS products."

Surprised?

[Jordan Catalano (915885)]

"The staff believed, based on conversations with frequent customers, that most customers were buying the boxes to install Windows on them. But that is not surprising to us, because, as we discuss in section two, brick-and-mortar "computer" stores are still part of the Microsoft distribution chain."

And if they sold systems with no OS, they'd sell like hotcakes. Take your pick: pirates or people sick of buying an XP license each time they want to upgrade to a new machine without the trouble of buying it part-by-part?

Exactly

[Serapth (643581)]

This has very little to do with how Linux is doing at Retail. It has everything to do with if given the chance to pirate an OS, will people do i?

Then again, im not really shocked. I think to some degree people view pirating an OS or pirating from Microsoft in general as a lesser form of pirating.

Re:Exactly

[Remedy_man (922349)]

What makes us assume that we are pirating the software? Is it not possible (mind you I didn't say probable) that they are actually upgrading their system? Where does the customer agreement state that they can't use it on a new computer as long as it is not on any other computer? Maybe they are actually removing it from the old system, or maybe their hard drive failed completely and they are taking this opportunity to upgrade their system. Does this qualify as piracy?

Re:Exactly

[aj50 (789101)]

That depends. If you got windows with your pc like almost all home users do, then yes.

OEM operating system licences live and die with each pc - they are not transferable

http://www.microsoft.com/uk/windows/licensing/howt ouse.mspx [microsoft.com]

wow...

[joe 155 (937621)]

I'm amazed that you can actually find a computer that comes with anything other than Windows pre-installed. This has to be at least one step in the right direction though. Even if people are only buying them to put windows on the effect on the market will be the same as if they were going to become hard-core open source supporters. It still gives a bigger market share to this stuff, and with bigger market shares bigger companies want to get in on the action... then it snowballs

Re:wow...

[Ucklak (755284)]

Fry's Electronics does it. They have a 4 foot section on one of their aisles with a GQ computer (their brand) with a Linux Distro pre-installed and a Linspire set pre-installed as well.

Re:wow...

[sud_crow (697708)]

Actually, it isn't that amazing, for the sellers is just reducing costs, and so improving sales, as we all know that cheap sells more.

Anyway, It doesnt really help around, no one will keep the Linux OS, unless they find someone who has it too (so they can share something, at least get some questions answered), they will wipe it out and install a pirate Windows as soon as the kids neighbor brings he's last game, or dad comes with his compay soft. Thats the ugly truth on pre-installed soft, at least here.

Here in Argentina almost all of the electrodomestics and supermarkets chains that commercialise PCs have Linux pre-installed, there is even a local Linux company selling Linux Distributions to these chains (the distribution has much the ways as Linspire, they DO NOT SHARE what they build, they only (ab)use GPL'ed software and build around propietary configuration apps, and give support for the distribution to the final user), this company even implemented a License KEY, just like Windows, so you dont copy the ISO... Which is quite depressing.

Most of the employees tell them to get a technician, format the drive and install a pirate windows, even some of them go do the work as an extra influx of money.

I just think that this kind of things give Linux a bad reputation, they make people believe that its trash and that 'nothing works', so you have to go to windows, which of course they dont pay, because if they actually had to put 1 buck for it, there we would see some massive migrations to Linux.

Re:wow...

[rm69990 (885744)]

Yeah...I was even more amazed the other day. I came across this computer from a company named "Apple", and it didn't come with Windows either! A lot of these no name companies tend to not include Windows though ;-) (just kidding btw)

That's OK

[timeOday (582209)]

I buy and wipe boxes with Windows to install Linux.

I hereby grant my unused Windows Licenses to Linspire "customers."

Re:That's OK

[Nos. (179609)]

By buying a PC with Windows, you are paying the "Microsoft Tax" as people like to call it. So, you're basically handing MS a cheque, and then not using their product. Not sure why you'd want to do that.

Re:That's OK

[sammy baby (14909)]

By buying a PC with Windows, you are paying the "Microsoft Tax" as people like to call it. So, you're basically handing MS a cheque, and then not using their product. Not sure why you'd want to do that.

Because sometimes, the price to the consumer winds up actually being cheaper even with the cost of the "Microsoft tax." That's because larger suppliers can get better deals at every point of the supply chain. The extra money for Windows doesn't necessarily wipe out that advantage.

MS punishing for FOSS?

[PFI_Optix (936301)]

I've worked for both a retail outlet and two small OEMs, one of which is a Microsoft gold OEM partner, or whatever that program is now.

At all three places we talked openly to MS reps about offering Linux to keep prices down. At one of the OEMs we went from all MS to about 20% Linux in the space of a year. Not once did any of that hurt our relationship with them. This sounds like a bunch of FUD to me.

Re:MS punishing for FOSS?

[christian.einfeldt (874074)]

Hi Slash Veteran, You are right. Linux is not doing well in retail right now. That is the point of my article. There is growth, but it is slow. Please read the article more closely. The point of the article is that big box retail is a sustaining channel for Microsoft. Linux and FOSS are growing in what Harvard Biz Prof Clayton Christensen calls "disruptive channels."

For example, when Sony first came out with transistor radios, which were disruptive of RCA's big desktop radios, none of RCA's channel partners would carry Sony's transistor radio "toys for teenagers", which were considered by RCA's best customers, adults who wanted high sound quality, to be crap. Instead, Macy's picked up the transistors, and Sony grew its distribution chain from there. RCA is now a shadow of its former self, because it couldn't figure out how to get transistors into its "best products". Microsoft can't figure out how to monetize the production of open source code, and THAT is the key nature of the challenge that Microsoft is facing. THAT is the point of my story. The distribution channels are changing. This story just documents one key little step in the the change, as Microsoft's distribution channels slowly take on the disruptive products from open source challengers.

Re:MS punishing for FOSS?

[Nightspirit (846159)]

For those not in the know, "I work for..." is a fark cliche. It's a joke.

Punish?

[jamesl (106902)]

Microsoft guards its distribution chain jealously, and punishes those business partners who stray into carrying FOSS products.

And the source for this little gem is what? Do you suppose the DOJ would be interested if it were true? Do you suppose that MS' competitors would be screaming if it were true? Do you suppose that with the size of MS' market, the number of retailers and speed of the internet, if this were true it would be on the front page of the New York Times, Washington Post and Wall Street Journal?

Remember 1998?

[Otter (3800)]

Remember how back in 1998 ("The Year Of Linux On The Desktop!") you couldn't turn around in a CompUSA without knocking over a stack of Corel or Mandrake boxes?

You don't need fancy sociology about "disruptive technology" to explain why Linux distros do or don't have prominent in-store displays. If the makers write their checks to the store, they get their displays; otherwise, they don't.

customer support needs to be there first...

[vacorama (770618)]

i think a big problem is a lack of people who could answer any questions on these machines. i bought a 500$ linspire laptop at walmart. the price was cheap enough and the CNR service was pretty cool so i figured, 'why not?'.. after playing around a bit i ended up selling it to a friend after i a got a new power book.. anyways, the amount of questions i got about that linspire machine (how can i set up my printer, why can't my kids use for school, etc..) was a headache enough.. i couldn't imagine a big box store that would be willing to deal with this type of feedback for one type of product.

Re:customer support needs to be there first...

[Strudelkugel (594414)]

i think a big problem is a lack of people who could answer any questions on these machines

That and a lack of hardware quality. I non-technical friend of mine, a certified, card carrying Microsoft hater, bought a Linspire box from Fry's. The first thing he did was try to get a printer to work. He spent hours doing that, then finally took it back to the store. Turns out there was a hardware problem. So if time is worth anything, the Linspire became quite a bit more expensive than the $180 he spent for it.

I

From a slightly different angle...

[mccalli (323026)]

I misinterpreted the title at first, and thought it might mean Linux in the retail industry. I'll pass this anecdote on anyway though.

In the UK, the PC World [pcworld.co.uk] chain is the main purveyor of PCs at retail. It, err...well. How shall we put this? It doesn't have the greatest reputation for knowledgeable staff and customer service. Alternative names I've heard for it are PC Woe and The Purple Temple Of Sadness (which is the best term I've heard for the place).

As you'd expect, it pushes cheap* PCs and whilst the odd Mac sits at the back somewhere, it's pretty much a Windows-only place, happily pushing Microsoft Anything and Norton at people.

It came as a surprise then, when I needed to grab a router right that moment and so went in, to find internal stock lists and part numbers getting checked using OpenOffice spreadsheets. Interested, I had a word with the guy doing the check and he said OpenOffice was used throughout the store.

I'm not certain as to whether he meant just that store or the entire chain, but it was interesting to see OpenOffice having taken over a shop so strongly identified with WinTel and Microsoft-only solutions.

Cheers,
Ian
*Not that I have anything against cheap PCs - all depends on people's needs really.

Re:From a slightly different angle...

[Lehk228 (705449)]

not strange at all, they either pay an ouside company to host their site, or they bought a pre-packaged solution that uses asp and IIS.

in a business environment you don't have time for brand loyalty when your competitor is shaving $0.03 every transaction cost by going with the best deal regardless of brand.

So,,, what's the problem here?

[dedazo (737510)]

Can't RTFA but discounting the usual Slashbot FUD that Microsoft 'punishes' those who stray into selling Linux (or whatever)... what exactly is the problem here? That retailers "should" sell Linux because "everyone" knows it's "better" than Windows? What is the rationale for expecting Circuit City to sell boxes with some other OS preinstalled?

It's not all Microsoft's fault

[Blacklotuz (575879)]

Every time I read a slashdot article about linux it seems like all the Linux fanboys do is blame Microsoft for keeping Linux down. While I do know that Microsoft has forged some exclusive deals with PC manufacturers, I don't feel that thats the main reason why people arn't adopting Linux. I frequently build my own systems and have plenty of experience installing Linux, but I chose to use Windows as my primary OS. Linux is still lacking in many areas and if I were to try to switch the rest of my family over it would be a nightmare. Windows does have its own flaws but all in all it's the best thing on the market for most people. Back in the day of Windows 95/98 the OS bluescreened at least once a week and full OS crashes were constant, but with XP I hardly ever experience a full OS crash and I leave my system up for weeks at a time. It's usualy third party applications and drivers which cause the crashes I deal with but people are quick to blame Microsoft for these faults. A good example is my firefox install, which has been crashing quite frequently recently. I know this is probably caused by a poorly writen extension but yet I find myself thinking 'Damned Firefox'. I have a feeling that when a third party app causes trouble people are quick to blame Microsoft.

Re:I wonder...

[Illbay (700081)]

Have you ever noticed how many people are still running Windows 2000 Professional? There really are a slew of them

I suspect that, years after Vista is released, you will still find a BUNCH of machines running XP.

One thing I have noticed is the maturity -> longevity effect for computer hardware and software. Years ago, the rapid pace of hardware development and the commensurate evolution of end-user software meant that a three-year-old box was not just NOMINALLY obsolete, it was obsolete IN FACT. New hardware peripherals and (above all) new applications could effectively not be used on systems just a couple of years old.

Nowadays, however, even though an Intel or AMD processor-based system from four years ago might have rings run around it by current stuff, the old systems are still very serviceable and can run almost any software you car to install short of the latest games. And they can be upgraded enough (e.g. video card) where even the "gaming barrier" can be negotiated in large part.

I suspect that a brand new AMD64 X2 processor-based system of today will stil be VERY useable eight years from now despite the advent of Vista or any other software technology. They're just not really coming up with very many "new things" to do with a PC (look at MS Excel 2003, for example. Does it REALLY look or work that differently from a Windows-based Excel spreadsheet from ten years ago?)

And FWIW, you can ALWAYS take an obsolete box, install the latest Linux distro onto it, and breathe new life back into that puppy like you wouldn't believe.

People are keeping their automobiles longer now, and I'm sure that's coming to be the same for PC systems.

Re:I wonder...

[westlake (615356)]

And FWIW, you can ALWAYS take an obsolete box, install the latest Linux distro onto it, and breathe new life back into that puppy like you wouldn't believe.

This assumes there is no fundamental change in how a PC is used.

Vista for the home is a media center oriented OS and specifically an HD-media oriented OS. Audio and video. In 2006 that is marketable, in 2009, and beyond, that may be essential.

Re:That is a shocker

[yo_tuco (795102)]

"Yes, you can do that, yes, it is legal, and no, MS is not stopping people from doing so."

Maybe now you can after this poor dude, David Zamos, tried to sell his copy [clevescene.com], and faced the wrath of Microsoft's lawyers. But David fought back. An amazing and sad story, IMHO, how big corps expect us pee-on consumers' to just roll over.