Linspire CEO Considers CNR for Ubuntu

bored2k writes "Kevin Carmony, President and CEO of Linspire, Inc., is using the Ubuntu Forums to ask for input and explain why he thinks a popular and heavily focused on usability distribution like Ubuntu needs Linspire's $20 per-year CNR service. From what he says, both him and Mark Shuttleworth (Canonical/Ubuntu's founder) like the idea. Would CNR honestly help Ubuntu grow, or is it just a scheme to cash in on it's success?"

Free

Nonsense. Ubuntu is free, and will always be free. Their principles state that there can't be "extra" versions that cost money in addition to the free version, too. CNR is nice, but it's not Ubuntu.

Re:Free

Their principles state that there can't be "extra" versions that cost money in addition to the free version, too.

This does not prevent another company (Linspire) from offering optional services on top of Ubuntu. Just like any company can offer free or non-free software that can be installed on top of Ubuntu or on top of any other Linux distribution or even any other operating system.

Re:Free

This also does not prevent another company like Impi Linux [impi.org.za] (65% owned by Mark Shuttleworth) from offering optional services on top of Ubuntu.

Impi has a deal with CodeWeavers (the commercial contributors to WINE) and other commercial Linux players; I'd be surprised if they're not also talking to Linspire.

It's an interesting dance between the FREE and commercial software worlds!

"nice" "summary"

And would it have killed you to throw in some mention of what the hell a "CNR" is?

Re:"nice" "summary"

I've been reading Mr.Linspire's post about it. It's Click N Run software installation. It's like a frontend to apt/emerge/pacman, but more polished at both ends. Because it already has the billing system, and because Linspire isn't tied to purely free software, it can do things like proprietary game installations too.

It has an extensive software repository too: it would provide *all* an average user would need, which is in fact more than any other package system can say (because of the non-free part).

Unfortunately, its advantages are *all* in its non-free nature (though I'd install it in a flash if it became fast as well as fluffy).

*all* an average user would need

I have mixed feelings about something like CNR, and perhaps it's because I don't fully understand it.

My impression is that it's like one-click shopping for sofware. Find software on a web browser, push a button, it gets installed, and you get billed. I guess that's ok, for someone who feels a little scared to type "emerge doom3". But that's not what I'd really like to get out of something like CNR.

First off, I like the idea of a subscription service. In these days of security issues, it's downright stupid to adopt a sales-without-service model for computers. Any computer which will be connected to a network needs some form of regular service plan. My mom's system runs "emerge sync" weekly, "glsa-check" nightly, and emails the results to me. Even if glsa-check is only tied into the portage database, and thus only does something new weekly, at least the nightly emails will nag me into taking care of it. When there's a security issue, I ssh in and fix it. When I visit, I bring her system fully up to date. That's a "policy."

I'd like to see some sort of update/security policy out of a service like CNR. In particular, something like emerge is very good about upgrading packages and identifying config files that may require updating. But it doesn't update them, it just tells you that it needs to be done. IMHO, THIS is where the real effort needs to be in a subscription service, in tweaking configuration files after update, yet not breaking the system.

CNR

No! You will never stop me from "compiling linux tar file"! (Google "Lindows Rock")

New to Ubuntu

I wouldn't mind something like CNR (click-n-run) being available. I'd probably shell out the $20 a year also. I like Ubuntu a lot, but it took me about 2 hours the first night to be able to play and rip MP3 files. I don't want to install the newest JDK from SUN either because I don't really know how or if it would interfere with Ubuntu. I tried installing the new Firefox 1.5.0.1 over 5.10's default 1.0.7 and hosed it pretty good, I couldn't install or remove firefox then. I was finally able to get it working by doing an uninstall and then manually removing the /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox directory, then doing an install again. Now I just run 1.5 from a separate directory. It would be worth $20 just to save me an hour of messing around and it would already have saved 4-5...

What I want to know is why Sun doesn't get together with the Ubuntu team to create a package for the new JDK 1.5. They have a binary installer for Linux, why not have a '.deb' file for Ubuntu? It's free, you just have to click-through Sun's license to get it...

Re:New to Ubuntu

I used Ubuntu for a few weeks and installed JDK right off of the java.sun.com site. The directions are plain as day on there, and are pretty easy to follow: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/install-linux.html [sun.com]. It did not mess anything up either, worked just fine from the command line and from within Eclipse.

Re:New to Ubuntu

For things like the newest firefox and JDK. As well as some handy non-free stuff you need Automatix. It's easy to install and will let you choose several non-.deb apps from a simple list. Just search the Ubuntu forums for mor info.

Not bad at all.

There are som things open source just cant supply legally. MP3, WMA, and some other media formats are amongst those. To be able to get those from CNR would be wonderful. CNR can license those things in another way than an open source dist can. It would be a nice complement and make it easier for the users.

Re:Not bad at all.

"Why can the less commercial distros get away with such treasonous blasphemy in this post 9/11 world?"

Because they can be subject to legal action at any time if they include support for mp3, wma and whatnot. A hobby distro maker might take the chance but RedHat management would be liable for suits from its shareholders if they do something illegal on purpouse.

Software patens suck but until they are gone we have to live with them. CNR makes that pretty easy for the end user.

Good idea

apt-get is darned easy to use, but there are many things available through CNR that aren't in the apt repositories. It is certainly a nice supplement.

Look at it this way; it is optional. If you don't want it, you are in exactly the same situation as before. If you do want it, you get something extra. It is a win-win situation; you either ignore it, or benefit from it.

why can't it be both?

> "Would CNR honestly help Ubuntu grow, or is it just a scheme to cash in on it's success?"

Why can't it be both? Sheesh, you guys are so narrow minded! :)

I have zero personal interest in this, even though I like Ubuntu, but I can imagine many people who might find it useful.

One thing that I would be interested to see is if they can make CNR work (for its target audience) without Linspire's terrible always-run-as-root misfeature.

Affiliated Services with Digitally Signed Scripts

Commercial user support services, like Linspire's Click and Run service, and non-freely redistributable code, such as proprietary software and plugins, should not and in most cases cannot be included on Ubuntu's CD/DVD distributions.

However, there is no reason why Ubuntu could not host Digitally Signed Shell Scripts ( DSSS ) on their website, and by default, include a MIME setting so that web-browsers will pass the script along to a plugin that checks that it has been signed by Ubuntu before executing the shell script. The script would then perform the one click download and install of the required software. The advantage of this is that the DSSS could be linked to by any Ubuntu website, FAQ , help, page etc.

Two precondition:
1) Ubuntu should not preselect any one service over another, but include scripts to install competeing services.
2) Any Ubuntu "affiliated service" that wants a Ubuntu DSSS would be required to sign an agreement to not use it to install any badware [stopbadware.org].

I'll pay for convenient, licensed software

A quick and easy way to get licensed software (for a fee of course) without having to spend hours looking for unofficial versions. I'd go for it, if the price is right.

Hmm..

It's been stated before, and I agree with it.
CNR is ok in Ubuntu, since the apt-tool will still be available, for the users amongst us that use Ubuntu and are very happy with it (like yours truly), CNR isn't going to be used. But for the other users who want more apps and easy of use, CNR is going to be the solution.
Personally I think Ubuntu is great as is, but adding new futures to it that make other people use Ubuntu too, is a great step forward.

$20 per year per what?

Computer, User or household...

I have six Ubuntu boxes at home, would I be expected to pay $120 per year or would I be able to get away with just the one CNR subscription for the household?

Re:$20 per year per what?

No that one 20 dollar cost would cover every computer you use.

Hrmmmm

CNR for $20 / year for outdated software.

Or I can use Klik [atekon.de] for free, which does the same thing, is constantly up to date, and is guarenteed to never interfere with my system since all the packages are installed in theor own chroot directories.

Why doesn't Ubunto adopt Klik? Is it just not as well known?

Yep, and we tore himi up quite a bit I think

Or at least a few of us did. I know I did. Carmony's ideas are grandiose and thoughtful, but they arent thought out properly. Right down to his inclusion of Doomsday (game dev yagisian noted that the game was not for commercial distribution, and Carmony had to turn around and eat his own words, something I personally loved to see). The idea of including CNR , a pay as you go service, into a fairly all inclusive project like Ubuntu would be at best asinine.

KingBahamut
Forum Moderator - ubuntuforums.org

Nothing wrong with this

I've been following the conversation at ubuntuforums.org with great interest, and, despite early pre/mis-conceptions as to what it's all about, I've got to say I like the idea. For myself, probably not, although if it comes with the same 15-day free run that Linspire users get, I may install it just to see if it lives up to the hype (and Kevin did hype it a lot). I'm fine with apt (and Synaptic, when I'm feeling particularly lazy), but this would be something I could easily reccommend to n00b friends. $20 a year is, I feel, a very reasonable price for the service.

I view this like I view Linspire's services in general. No one ends up there (or at least, no one should). But it's a bridge from MSFT-land for people who otherwise wouldn't come over at all, and I'm glad someone's out there doing it.

One objection that I heard a lot on the forum is "CNR's not open source!!" So fucking what, you goddamn zealot. Neither's the nvidia driver, and who here uses it? Thought so.

Windows User Here....

I am really considering putting Ubuntu on my Desktop. I think I have enough knowledge about it now (and I can run World of Warcraft via Wine =P) and I was going to use Ubuntu. Personally, $20 a year isn't that bad. If there will still be a free version, thats fine too. Windows costs what, $300 for XP Pro Full, and $200 for the upgrade version. I can go 10 years at $20 a year for Ubuntu for the price on an upgrade for Windows. I really like its free, but since I am used to paying a lot for an OS, a little money isn't such a bad thing. Though Linux is meant to be free, its hard to comtinue to operate on just donations. Plus, Ubuntu is awesome, they ship free CDs to people who want them. What a great service for free.

Kevin Carmony here

FYI... 1. This is just an idea we're kicking around. Someone on the Ubuntu forums asked me if we'd ever do such a thing, and I responded with my post. Don't read too much into this gang, I just wanted to honestly ask the question that posed to me. 2. Mark and I have discussed this. We'd never do this if Mark wasn't OK with it, and Mark would not be OK with it if it goes against the values and mission of Ubuntu. 3. Even if we did this (and that's a big if =), it would NOT be in the Ubuntu distribution. A user would have to download the CNR client on their own if they wanted to try or use it. 4. We'd only do this if, in addition to Mark being OK with it, lots of Ubuntu users wanted it. So, if you don't like the idea, convince Ubuntu users of that fact, not me. I believe having more choices is better, but if they feel otherwise, no worries, we'd not bother offering them something they don't want. (It looks like about half would like the option.) No one would force anyone to use this, it would just be there IF they wanted to install it. It would not be "in" Ubuntu by default. 5. I have made many posts on the Ubuntu forum, so if you actually want to know WHAT I SAID about all this, you can visit there. Sadly, my experience with Slashdot posters is they rarely actually research anything before posting. I've spotted more FUD here over the years (about a wide range of topics) than any other "news" resource on the net. Kevin Carmony CEO, Linspire, Inc.

Suuuuure it'll help

Obviously CNR is a wonderful feature, as is clearly evidenced by all the dozen or so people still using Linspire.

I kinda get the feeling that I'm the only one who's noticed a problem with the man who stands to gain direct financial benefit from the inclusion of subscription fee-based technology in another distro being it's primary proponent. If instead, Linspire were to mount a covert campaign to infiltrate shills into the Ubuntu forums, people would onto them like white on rice.

Never

Ubuntu is FREE. It will always be free. Even if CNR was optional I don't think many people would buy it. I have used Ubuntu and I love it although I currently use SuSE 10.0 (YEAH LINUX!!!!). Even if I had the money, I would never pay for the CNR service. The software you get on it is out of date and quite honestly with a bit of time, you can much better install it by yourself (for FREE!). I am thinking this is just some plan by Linspire to try and get some money out of Ubuntu's success.

Re:Ubuntu, worst linux distribution name ever...

If a program called "Skype" can take off, or people will buy cars that have all kinds of entirely meaningless names, what can't Ubuntu be successful?

Well, it is.

Well, that might be beacuse IT IS an African distro and a word in Zulu. As far as i know it was meant as its main goal to be a distro for Africans and the general popularity is just an added bonus. OSS tends to have silly sounding names in general. Ubuntu, other than sounding silly to someone unfamiliar with it also expresses the ideology behind the foundation.

Re:SPEAK ENGLISH!

What does this story mean?? I do not speak your crazy pointy-haired manager moon language!!!

Here you go [wikipedia.org]

Re:Ubuntu, worst linux distribution name ever...

I fail to understand if you try to be funny or if you really don't know, what you are talking about. However...

"Ubuntu" _is_ a Zulu word. Ubuntu _was_ intended as an african Linux distribution. The essential meaning of "ubuntu" is "humannes", though that is rather simplified. It extended meaning is that "a human is a human being through other human beings". But even that is too simple. It also contains respect and concern for one's family, one's neighbors and is fundemantally inclusive, in strong contrast to the fundemantal exclusive of the western culture.