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GUI Software Sun Microsystems Linux

LiveCD Lets You Try Out Project Looking Glass 397

Posted by timothy from the slick-interface dept.
remember_beos writes "Sun created Project Looking Glass (LG3D) as a 'proof of concept' not long ago. It is an environment for Linux, like KDE or Gnome, but with some really great 3D functionality. More than just eye-candy, LG3D provides functional use of an extra spatial dimension on your desktop. Now there is a LiveCD for us all to try it out."
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LiveCD Lets You Try Out Project Looking Glass More

LiveCD Lets You Try Out Project Looking Glass

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  • Video link (Score:5, Informative)

    by Virtual Karma ( 862416 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @04:37PM (#11827794) Homepage
    Here is a link to the video: http://www.sun.com/software/looking_glass/demo.xml [sun.com]

    • Re:Video link (Score:5, Funny)

      by PatrickThomson ( 712694 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @05:25PM (#11828420)
      Nice going, you managed to slashdot the sun, I guess we'll have to implode Saturn now.
      • I guess we'll have to implode Saturn now.

        You leave my file server out of this! Seriously it's named Saturn, I'm smart enough to put it on an exanet, has no connection to the internet and I lose my internet connection when I switch to that network.

        Kidneys man, kidneys.

      • The Sun is Out (Score:3, Interesting)

        by fm6 ( 162816 )
        Actually, a lot of Sun sites are rather flaky today. Not very impressive, coming from the company whose motto is "The Network is the Computer."

        They're claiming this is "Java-based". Never heard of this kind of stuff running any way except as native code. A breakthrough in VM technology, or more abuse of the Java "brand"?

        The Schwartz demo provoked lots of applause, but I was pretty underwhelmed. There are a few cool-looking visual effects, like turning a window over so you can write on the back. But no

        • Re:The Sun is Out (Score:3, Informative)

          by WebMink ( 258041 )
          They're claiming this is "Java-based". Never heard of this kind of stuff running any way except as native code. A breakthrough in VM technology, or more abuse of the Java "brand"?

          Take a look at the actual project [java.net]. You'll find it's all Java code, and that it uses Java 3D as an generalisation layer to control the video card. So actually a vindication of the virtualisation concept, yes.

      • If you were thinking the same I am, it's Jupiter that needs imploding. And all these base belong to you, except Europa, attempt no landing there :)
  • I have been licking the same screenshots on suns site for the last few months. Now I get to play with it! I cant wait to download it tonight!

  • Acknowledgements in TFA (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @04:38PM (#11827797)
    This project owns much to Chevol Davis who contributed unvaluable [wiktionary.org] serverspace and bandwidth.
    Nice to know that they appreciate all the crappy things they are given :) (at least according to current usage)

  • Worth it? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Kimos ( 859729 ) <kimos...slashdot@@@gmail...com> on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @04:38PM (#11827804) Homepage
    To me this says all show and no productivity. I'll get a live CD and play with it, but I doubt it'll be worth using to actually get something accomplished.

    Isn't it rough on the video card to have it 3D rendering at any point the the OS is loaded?

    • Re:Worth it? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Junks Jerzey ( 54586 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @04:42PM (#11827856)
      Isn't it rough on the video card to have it 3D rendering at any point the the OS is loaded?

      Isn't this what video cards or for? You might as well ask if it's rough on the CPU.

      • Re:Worth it? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Kimos ( 859729 )
        Maybe I'm remembering back in the day of my first "good" video card. I was running rendered screen savers (cause it was uber-cool at that point) and the card was having heat issues. Guess things have changed eh?
      • There is a big issue with cheaper systems in relation to video cards with 3d. At a school I once attended they had a bunch of really fast, but really cheap desktops. They all intergrate video cards. Once after playing counter-strike for about an hour artfacts would appear. This would be even scarier with your windowing system. I would predict most PC sold today would have this issue. There is a big problem with being "too hard" (aka not enough cooling) on the video of cheaper systems. I would say the issue
      • You should have bought that nifty pci fan from 3dfxcool.com. :-)

    • Re:Worth it? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by DavidLeblond ( 267211 ) <me&davidleblond,com> on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @04:48PM (#11827946) Homepage
      I don't know, ask Apple. Their UI uses the GPU and it has for awhile now.

    • Re:Worth it? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Mark_MF-WN ( 678030 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @04:51PM (#11827991)
      You bet. These video cards can handle marathon 12 hour gaming sessions, but they're gonna break like matchsticks under the burden of running a WINDOWING system.

      • Re:Worth it? (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Kimos ( 859729 )
        That's my point though is that not all cards can support a 12 hour gaming session. Not to mention that if you're talking OS, you need to be able to run for days/weeks/months, not just a mad Quake sesh...
        • you stupid or what? or you really believe that it's normal for a rig to fail under a 12 hour gaming session? it is NOT normal. if your computer doesn't handle a 12 hour gaming session then your computer is unstable and defective in some way.

          besides, some accelration is already used during the normal usage, and on macs it's used quite a bit for fancy effects too.

          you should be able to leave a windowed 3d app running for any amount of time without the computer crapping out if the computer isn't broken.

          • Re:Worth it? (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Mark_MF-WN ( 678030 )
            Especially given that a 3D windowing system will totally under-utilize even the cheapest of modern video cards. If my roommate's $30 bargain bin video card can run UT2004's million polygons per second for six hours with a smooth framerate, I think it can handle rendering five or six window polygons per second on behalf of the windowing system.

    • Re:Worth it? (Score:2, Informative)

      by InvalidError ( 771317 )
      That's where nVidia's new SLI and ATI's AMR come in handy!

      For games, frame rendering usually begins by clearing the frame buffer since the whole screen usually needs redrawing but for regular apps, updating only active windows when changes occur should be far less expensive in rendering time - these would consist mainly of mapping 2D surfaces on some polygons, something even the oldest 3D cards should be able to do decently fast.

  • Now My Desktop can be like my apartment (Score:5, Interesting)

    by moofdaddy ( 570503 ) * on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @04:39PM (#11827816) Homepage
    From what I understand of this project it is very cool. With that extra spatial dimmension you will take what is already a cluttered desktop and make it mess in 3D. Now my computer can look more like my apartnemt.

    In all seriousness though this is really a neat concept. I use a lot of space for my video editing programs. They require a title program, an animator, a sound mixer, a couple of editors, etc. Now this will take my ordinary 15 inch screen and give it dimenssion which will make my life a lot more producitve and a lot oless facinating.

    • With that extra spatial dimmension you will take what is already a cluttered desktop and make it mess in 3D. Now my computer can look more like my apartnemt.

      This is exactly where things need to go.
      I like the idea of being able to flip windows over and interact with the metadata in the file. In Tiger, Apple is debuting the ability to do this (it was actually in a Mac OS 8.5 beta but was removed) I just hope that it will be implemented at the Window Manager level and not require application updates.

  • Maintenance Notice (Score:5, Funny)

    by fembots ( 753724 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @04:40PM (#11827834) Homepage
    Maintenance notice: Saturday, 3/5 noon - 1 pm PST, maintenance to our hosting center could cause interruptions in site access during this period.

    What speed are you guys getting at the moment? Looks like the "maintenance" has come early.

  • I got your screen shots right here (Score:4, Informative)

    by moofdaddy ( 570503 ) * on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @04:41PM (#11827848) Homepage
    http://www.sun.com/software/looking_glass/details. xml [sun.com]

    Check it out, very cool looking

  • I dunno.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Psykus ( 827143 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @04:44PM (#11827886)
    I tried something similar for Windows XP some time ago, I didn't really see any advantages over using a normal, 2D interface. Perhaps this 3D interface is different, but the whole thing seems pretty gimicky to me. Kind of like having a 3D interface, just to say you have a 3D interface, not because of any inherent benefits of using it.

    Also, is this a window manager akin to Gnome or KDE, or does it run on top of either one? The window decorations and stuff look pretty fugly IMHO.

    • Re:I dunno.... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by pHZero ( 790342 )
      You may be missing out on the point that this opens up a completely new area of UI development.. UI developers don't have to be constrained to the standard 'Two dimensional box' we are accustomed to. A properly designed three dimensional UI could turn out to be more intuitive and productive if designed properly. For an example see the CD jukebox Sun includes with Looking Glass.

    • Re:I dunno.... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by KingPrad ( 518495 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @06:06PM (#11828834)
      I just thought of a way this might be made useful. It depends on sensing the location of the user's head. It would work so that a user could tilt his head like he's trying to see 'around' to the other side of the spherical interface and the window manager would rotate in the windows/information from that side. So if you are looking at a text editor and need to check out a document momentarily you could crane your neck (I'm talking a slight gesture, not really craning, but the same motion) and the web browser that is pushed off to the side would slide back in. You could read what you need to, then go back the other way to see the editor.

      Perhaps a head position sensor would provide intelligent focusing for the extra dimensions? I can see something like this being useful in any window manager. You could do it with a camera and some custom recognition software perhaps, so no extra sensor would be required.

      I personally would really like it if I could scroll a document or switch desktops (or the view of a very large desktop) with slight head gestures.

      • Re:I dunno.... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by suckmysav ( 763172 ) <suckmysav&gmail,com> on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @07:23PM (#11829538) Journal
        " I just thought of a way this might be made useful. It depends on sensing the location of the user's head. It would work so that a user could tilt his head like he's trying to see 'around' to the other side of the spherical interface and the window manager would rotate in the windows/information from that side. So if you are looking at a text editor and need to check out a document momentarily you could crane your neck (I'm talking a slight gesture, not really craning, but the same motion) and the web browser that is pushed off to the side would slide back in. "

        And the first thing a new user would do would be to get on the internet to find out how they can turn that goddamn crap off.

        Sheesh. The last thing I want to do when using a PC is to have to ensure that I remain absolutely motionless lest my GUI start flipping windows all over the place.

        I suggest you pitch that idea to the folks at Redmond ASAP. It might be just what we need to start turning people away from their Windows boxen in droves.
    • I tried something similar called Windows some time ago, I didn't really see any advantages to it over using a normal commandline . Perhaps this 2D windowing interface is different, but the whole thing seems pretty gimicky to me. Kind of like having a 2D windowing interface, just to say you have a 2D windowing interface, not because of any inherent benefits of using it. And the mouse can you imagine having to take your hands off the keyboard. think of how the typing speeds will suffer.

      How you interact Wi

  • How does it work? (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The site is already slashdotted, so I can't RTFA, but does anyone know how this works? Does it have drivers ready to go from nVidia, ATi, or the DRI project? Is it a full Knoppix like system, or can I just load the 3D environment on top of an already running Linux installation? Will it also work with Solaris for x86? I simply must have answers.

    The site just loaded and I'm am too lazy to use my backspace key, so I'll share what I can see before it is completely slashdotted. It uses GamesKnoppix and let

  • Longhorn (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Virtual Karma ( 862416 )
    This is what Microsoft is trying to achieve in Longhorn. I'm sorry Bill, somebody just beat you at that...
    • I'm confused, what exactly are you talking about? How (other than being a windowing system) is Looking Glass like Longhorn?
    • I've seen screencaps from longhorn which show your desktop as basically a 3d view from the inside of a cube. You can rotate the cube and the icons held on it, etc.

      • Re:Desktop (Score:3, Informative)

        by EddWo ( 180780 )
        If you get the latest public build, WinHec 2004 4071, and enable the DWM (Desktop Window Manager) and then use Atl-Tab, all your windows stack on top of one another and tilt away from you.
        http://www.stardock.com/video/june2004/longhorn/l h 4074_6.jpg [stardock.com]

        Thats about the only 3D effect thats in Longhorn, you must be thinking of the Task Gallery research project or SphereXP.

        Longhorn uses the 3D accelerator to render everything, Avalon the new presentation system is built on Direct3D, but so far theres not much
  • every time sun convinces me to never go back [sun.com] they do something that sounds cool and i have to give it a try.
    a plague upon your servers, sun!

  • ISO link (Score:5, Informative)

    by scottied ( 788920 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @04:46PM (#11827922) Homepage Journal
    It looks like looking glass is gonna be slashdotted... heres the ISO link.

    http://66.194.210.2/lg3d.iso [66.194.210.2]

    Not going very fast... torrent anyone??

  • Forget the LiveCD (Score:4, Interesting)

    by J. T. MacLeod ( 111094 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @04:48PM (#11827953)
    I want to install it on my computer.

    Can I do that? I can't find any information about doing just that.

    A LiveCD is good, because it shows people what a properly set-up environment can do, but why not let us set it up, ourselves?

    Licensing issues perhaps? Whatever the reason, a note on the page would be nice.
  • The iso directory is empty!

    https://lg3d-livecd.dev.java.net/servlets/Projec tD ocumentList?folderID=2794&expandFolder=2794&folder ID=0
  • ...but I was just curious and queried http://www.netcraft.co.uk/ [netcraft.co.uk] to fine out what the site https://lg3d-livecd.dev.java.net/ [java.net] was running. You see, I wanted to ascertain whether Solaris that I thought SUN would be using, could withstand the [Slashdot] effect.

    It seems that Netcraft cannot find the site! How can a curions Slashdotter know with certainity, what a particular site is running?

  • I'll mirror it (Score:5, Informative)

    by ToadMan8 ( 521480 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @04:57PM (#11828059)
    If someone can get their hands on it I will mirror it. The University has a 200 megabit pipe to lay to waste, but we're on I2 so edu connections will fly. (I've done this in the past for /.ed things)

  • Apple v. Sun (Score:5, Interesting)

    by revscat ( 35618 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @04:57PM (#11828066) Journal
    Does anyone get the impression that there is some subtle but real competition going on between Sun and Apple? Apple seems to be moving in on the server/blade market, and Sun is attempting to do cool GUI tricks. I wouldn't mention this but Sun has made so much of Project Looking Glass that it's kind of hard to not wonder if one of their primary targets here is not Apple and the users who are using it as their preferred UNIX OS.

    • Re:Apple v. Sun (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Queer Boy ( 451309 ) *

      I wouldn't mention this but Sun has made so much of Project Looking Glass that it's kind of hard to not wonder if one of their primary targets here is not Apple and the users who are using it as their preferred UNIX OS.

      Workstations are one of the few pieces of Unix kit that you can be assured will be replaced as quickly as you can get new tech out the door. In typical graphic and video shops they upgrade their kit every year if there is a speed boost. I have a friend that owns a local design firm and if

  • System Shock 3? A True Sequel to Thief?! NO! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Alzheimers ( 467217 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @05:03PM (#11828139)
    Oooh, shame on you! I had my hopes lifted for a moment, before being ripped to shreds by cruel reality.

    Damn. RIP, Looking Glass Studios.

  • Value not yet realized? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Eric Savage ( 28245 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @05:09PM (#11828221) Homepage
    I couldn't get the video, but from the screenshots and other stuff I've seen I don't see anyone making a compelling case for this. I admit it has promise, but I don't see any examples of actual utility that cannot also be found in just having two or three monitors. Right now it just seems like eye candy and an interesting concept the developers are waiting for someone else to capitalize on, not a viable alternative to the current 3D (e.g. stacked windows) desktop paradigm.

  • Honest /. recommendation (Score:5, Insightful)

    by miketang16 ( 585602 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @05:11PM (#11828255) Journal
    After reading about 15 requests for a torrent, I got to thinking about the /. effect and bittorrent.

    Wouldn't it be a decent idea to set up a torrents.slashdot.org and if possible, before releasing a story with a large 'attachment', set up a torrent for it?

    Then again, I don't know how hard this would be logistically, considering that one must obtain a copy of the file ahead of time. However, IMHO I think it's worth a shot.
    • Wouldn't that just slashdot Slashdot?
      • No, because it's a torrent. The bandwidth cost to slashdot would be minimal.
        • People have proposed having slashdot itself host large files (or torrents) from stories or copies of the articles to stave off slashdotting, but there are always these arguments against it:

          1. Slashdot cannot assume it has the right to distribute potentially copyrighted material

          2. Slashdot must respect the target site's right to control their content - whether that means registering users, displaying ads before or alongside the content, or charging a fee to view content.

          For example, if someone posts a rev

      • Re:Honest /. recommendation (Score:5, Informative)

        by Torg ( 59213 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @05:54PM (#11828724)
        Actually the amount of traffic a tracker gets is substantial. It is directly related to how many users there are in the cloud. The way the tracker works is to track the meta-data from the clients (what parts they have) so it can broadcast it back out.

        It is not nearly as large as the amount of bandwidth needed to distribute your data but it is still quite significant. Don't take my word for it, set one up and try it yourself.

    • Re:Honest /. recommendation (Score:4, Insightful)

      by miketang16 ( 585602 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @05:39PM (#11828580) Journal
      As for the faq question about creating a site cache, this would be quite different since it's not taking away from any adspace revenue based on the site because you would only be sharing a file that that site is distributing. People would still visit the site to read the information, but the bandwidth needs for a large file hosted on the site would be distributed.

      An argument might be that if you give readers a direct link to the file, then they won't visit the site. However, /. already posts direct HTTP/FTP links in its stories. Also, people that only want the file are just going to read the replies anyway to look for a direct link or torrent.
    • From the FAQ on Slashdot:

      Sure, it's a great idea, but it has a lot of implications. For example, commercial sites rely on their banner ads to generate revenue. If I cache one of their pages, this will mess with their statistics, and mess with their banner ads. In other words, this will piss them off.

      Of course, most of the time, the commercial sites that actually have income from banner ads easily withstand the Slashdot Effect. So perhaps we could draw the line at sites that don't have ads. They are, after
    • The first rule of slashdot is: you do not talk about solutions to the slashdot effect.

      Any guesses as to the second rule?

  • Humane Interface (Score:3, Insightful)

    by shrapnull ( 780217 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @05:15PM (#11828298)
    Probably the strongest point in the development of Project Looking Glass is that it shows GUI developer's that we are far from achieving any sort of happy medium or standard in the graphical experience.

    Coincidentally, with the passing of Jef Raskin recently, there is fear that the concepts of his Humane Interface [slashdot.org] will go largely ignored and unnoticed, despite there being a desperate need to simplify the user experience while being intuitive without being intrusive, and still allocating the option of low-level interaction demanded by hackers.

    While drawing the connection between Raskin and Project Looking Glass may seem distant, it is surely a nice example to see such a major organization funding open revolts against the norm and doing so in a public arena.

  • Managing the location and size of Windows (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Peaker ( 72084 ) <gnupeaker.yahoo@com> on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @05:29PM (#11828459) Homepage
    is counter-productive.

    Managing their rotation axis and depth is more waste of time.

    Windows should either be auto-maximized or auto-tiled by the windowing system, with the user and application cooperating to define which parts in the visible output of the application are important to the user at every given moment so that those are automatically displayed to the user. Simple example: Newly created messages about errors or events should not be placed on top of some text I am reading, but on some of the all-gray or all-white area that the screen almost always contains. For this to happen, it must know that text is more important than "dead" areas that contain nothing.

    This silliness of attributing physical traits to non-physical entities is counter-productive, even if it is very visually appealing.

    Lets let go of the overlapping windows crap and solve the division of screen-space problem in a more intelligent way.

  • Will no one post a torrent? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Trogre ( 513942 ) * on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @05:41PM (#11828598) Homepage
    This is getting silly.

    Seriously, if anyone here has downloaded the iso, torrent it pronto.

  • Connecting to 66.194.210.2:80... connected.
    HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
    Length: 611,616,768 [<b>text/plain</b>]

    0% 622,640 1.28K/s ETA 30:42:43

    Do I really want to spend 40 hours downloading a 600MB file only to risk finding out it got munged because its MIME type is given as "text/plain". I do not think so.

  • As a linux user (that is user, not developer) I am pained when I find it very hard to google up why my keyboard input it pausing every 1 second for a split second, eating a key. It i enogh t rendr m txt unradble.

    I am psyched about trying the 3d desktop, I am downloading it, I am happy that they did it. I am just sad they had to!

    I went into a couple #linux places and I got some great advice, but the overwhelming advice was, have you tried slack? debian? red hat? do you get this problem in puppy linux? slax
  • but in the longer term i'm not convinced many people are going to want to watch movies back to front.

    Might be better if we had something other than a mouse for navigation.

  • Looking Glass is nausea inducing (Score:5, Insightful)

    by NeedleSurfer ( 768029 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @06:30PM (#11829063)
    this is not a flame but a real comment, all videos I watched of this gave me nausea, the idea that the background move when my mouse does is very disturbing and not a good idea to locate items on the screen since everything moves not just the foreground or background. Each graphical element is way too big and actually nulify the idea, if you wanted more space out of this realize you don't because every object on the screen is now bigger, turning them aside doesn't provide much more space than windowshading does (the ability on the mac to collapse a window into its title bar), actually it provide less space because of the drop shadow and extra thickness, plus, now, you have too read from up to down instead of left to right, basically it is less usefull and more clunky than windowshade, but since it is a feature of a software that runs on Linux people will go nuts over it and call it usefull 3D even if its nothing but glitz and wizzbang...

    Actually, Looking glass is like when you give Windows a resolution the display can't handle, it just shows you part of your desktop and now you have to scroll the desktop to go to each corner, imagine this concept in 3D, you have Looking Glass...
  • and then take a screenshot of a bittorrent client in 3d, and then post it to the java.net guys and say 'thanks for saving my upstream, and the upstream of 100,000 others, PS: I hope your network cables cool down soon.'

    TORRENT IT NEXT TIME!! :-)
  • I have shutter glasses that are great with flight sims, racing games, and some FPSs, but AFAIK it's a Windows-only thing, as it relies on nVidia's supplemental drivers for it... Does anyone know if they'd work with this for a *real* 3D experience?

    (Shutter glasses are the 3D tech IMAX uses, vs. the polarization method from Captain EO, T2 3D, etc...)
  • LAAAAG! laaaaag! The great thing is - bringing users to linux... pause a game... switch to X... and have the characters jump out and blast each other...

    spawn-kill processes...

    My idea of a computer is an optical device that projects a virtual desktop any chape and size... projects it into your mind as if it is on the side of a building, the newspaper you are looking at... a particularly sexy ass on the subway...

    also a virtual keyboard you can type on... just don't type when chekcing out a lasses chest...

  • I BRING LOVE AND TORRENTS (Score:3, Informative)

    by gamepro ( 859021 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @10:57PM (#11830947)
    http://www.titaniumforums.com/torrent/software/ind ex.php [titaniumforums.com] Your welcome slashdot and thanks to http://www.x1communications.com/ [x1communications.com] for giving me the file.

  • Torrent Now up... (Score:4, Informative)

    by BrianHursey ( 738430 ) on Wednesday March 02, 2005 @11:00PM (#11830976) Homepage Journal
    Some one please mirror this file. Im sure this site will go down fast.

    Here is the site that i found serching through the sun forms..

    Get it while its up. lg3d.iso.torrent [titaniumforums.com]

  • Bad idea (Score:3, Insightful)

    by danila ( 69889 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @04:29AM (#11832163) Homepage
    Despite coming from Sun, the project is almost completely useless and goes in the wrong direction.

    What they claim is efficient way to organise the workspace in 3D is a big fat lie. It's just an ugly and useless hack that doesn't even have the "wow" factor.

    There are proven GUI technologies that work. These are
    1) Expose
    2) Virtual desktops, which you can switch between
    3) Smoothly scrollable desktop, preferably with a zoom feature.

    If someone implemented these (rather simple) ideas in one window manager, that would be almost a perfect environment, without any need for 3D (other than to use the 3D card acceleration and for cool visual effects). It doesn't make sense to rotate windows or workspaces, when you can zoom and scroll.

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