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iRiver Ships Linux Media Players 156

Posted by CowboyNeal from the media-to-go dept.
prostoalex writes "The Register talks about new Linux-based portable media players available from iRiver. PMP-120 and PMP-140 feature 3.5'' color screen and 20 and 40 GB drives. The price tag is $500 and $600 respectively. The players support MP3, WMA, WAV and ASF music formats as well as MPEG, ASF, AVI and DivX video formats."
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iRiver Ships Linux Media Players More

iRiver Ships Linux Media Players

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  • Great!!! (Score:2, Funny)

    by KennyP ( 724304 )
    Another /. toy I can't afford :-(

    Kenny P.
    Visualize Whirled P.'s

    • Dude, you can afford it. Get one for FREE. Check out my sig, this is another site like freeipods.com, except for it is video players instead.

      It's legit, and it just started a week or so ago, it's easy to get referrals. Just trying to help you out man...
      • "It's legit"

        If by legit you really mean pyramid scheme.


        • Possibly, depending on your definition of pyramid scheme. I have heard it called a "viral advertising" scheme as well. The important thing is to get in early, and then you have a good shot. That's why pyramid schemes are good for the top 3% and bad for the rest.

          I feel I am in early enough for it to benefit me. But in 2 weeks, I agree it may be a waste for those who have not joined.

          Your call obviously.

  • Ogg Vorbis (Score:2, Insightful)

    by gspr ( 602968 )
    Aaargh! Although it is nice and well, this isn't what the average free software Joe is crying out for. We want Ogg Vorbis capable players!

    • Re:Ogg Vorbis (Score:5, Insightful)

      by FlipmodePlaya ( 719010 ) on Saturday October 23, 2004 @08:40AM (#10608284) Journal
      Hmmm, most iRiver players (such as the iHP series) support ogg. I would be very surprised if this didn't, I imagine it's an error that it is not listed.

    • Re:Ogg Vorbis (Score:3, Interesting)

      by mocm ( 141920 )
      Aren't all the iRiver HD players Ogg Vorbis capable?
      The H100 and H300 series are and the PMPs are too.

      • Re:Ogg Vorbis (Score:5, Informative)

        by mocm ( 141920 ) on Saturday October 23, 2004 @08:45AM (#10608314)
        Ok the official specs say no ogg, but maybe that is a misprint. But here [dealtime.com] they say it has ogg.
        Was Ogg support the cause for the long delay?
        • I would expect DivX support to be harder than ogg support. I can see why ogg would hold up a flash or CD player, or even a hard-drive audio player. But when we're already supporting video, I can't expect ogg to be so problematic.

          But then, the only reason I've seen hardware manufacturers encounter difficulty with ogg was due to the floating point math required to decode, which was solved quite a while ago. We have a decoder that doesn't require floating point math now.
    • Holy crap, you're right. I found it very unlikely, given that all their other players have OGG support, but NOOOOO. They had to ship a linux-based player without native OGG support.

      Ijust wanted to finally tell someone to RTFA....

    • Re:Ogg Vorbis (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Donny Smith ( 567043 ) on Saturday October 23, 2004 @08:48AM (#10608327)
      > this isn't what the average free software Joe is crying out for.

      Yeah, it isn't and the probable reason is that there's only about 50,000 of average free software Joes compared to 2 billion of all average Joes.

      Not to mention that this tiny market segment isn't exactly known for their generosity and lavish spending habits.

      • Not to mention that this tiny market segment isn't exactly known for their generosity and lavish spending habits.

        Just a guess, but maybe this is because the market hasn't really done its job at providing gadgets of the required quality?

      • So, I guess this puts the lie to how we can all relax and the market will provide? Now it seems we're being told that even when what we want is available at low cost (last I recall, Ogg Vorbis support was royalty-free and non-copylefted free software is available), it's still too much to actually ask for what we want and hold out buying until we get it.

        On a more technical note, perhaps it would be better to make a small portable more generic computer and load it with software that will do what we want.

    • Re:Ogg Vorbis (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Fweeky ( 41046 )
      Required for me: FLAC, MusePack, Vorbis. In that order.

      Nice to have: APE, WavPack, OptimFrog, MP3+APEv2 tags, and every other audio format I've seen in use (I mean, isn't that the entire point of a portable media player, that it plays all your media? Duh)

      No, I'm not holding my breath either.

    • Then use Neuros (Score:2, Interesting)

      by HelloKitty ( 71619 )
      it's awsome. Neuros, plays mp3, ogg, it can record with onboard mic, broadcast FM to your car stereo, and much much more. :)

      it's grrrreeeeaaaat!

    • Seconded - These people are seriously challenged. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Onimaru ( 773331 ) on Saturday October 23, 2004 @09:38AM (#10608515)

      Seriously! Oh, look at us we managed to make a player that runs Linux and still isn't Linux-friendly. How stupid can you get?

      It's like some marketing guy came in and said "You know what's hot? Li-nux!" and then no one ever bothered to figure out why or how or with who.

  • $500 and $600? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 23, 2004 @08:36AM (#10608271)
    $500 and $600? Lucky they're using Linux to keep the price down.

  • No OGG VORBIS???? (Score:1, Redundant)

    by redtape ( 37014 )
    Oh, the shame, the shame! ;)

    • Re:No OGG VORBIS???? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Gubbe ( 705219 ) on Saturday October 23, 2004 @08:41AM (#10608297)
      Yet, at the bottom, there's the following:

      About iRiver
      iRiver is the leading innovator in delivering portable digital media devices. iRiver provides consumers with the viewing, listening and recording flexibility to accommodate their active lifestyles by manufacturing award-winning hybrid products supporting existing and emerging formats, including MP3, OGG, ASF, WMA and WMA-DRM. Milpitas-based iRiver America, Inc. can be found on the Web at www.iRiverAmerica.com.

      (emphasis of 'OGG' mine)
      • would this be called RTFFPATB?

        Read The F Fine Print At The Bottom

        Hmmm maybe it won't catch on.

      • Go and look at the specifications at the bottom of the page for the PMP-120. It does *NOT* list Ogg Vorbis as a supported format. Seriously how did this get +5 informative?

        • Re:No OGG VORBIS???? (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Gubbe ( 705219 )
          I never meant to insinuate that the product supports OGG Vorbis. I posted that excerpt to point out the discrepancy between their company policy and their actual product.

          Nevertheless, omitting OGG Vorbis from the specifications does not necessarily mean that Vorbis isn't supported on the product now or in the future, especially considering how it apparently is important enough to include in their 'About' blurb.

          I suggest we either ask iRiver directly or wait and see what the final product can actually do b

  • abbreviation (Score:5, Funny)

    by biryokumaru ( 822262 ) * <biryokumaru@gmail.com> on Saturday October 23, 2004 @08:37AM (#10608274)
    clearly the pmp stands for pimp

  • REAL question is.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Manip ( 656104 ) on Saturday October 23, 2004 @08:39AM (#10608281)
    The real question is, did IRiver release the source code for their new Linux players?

    If they did, have they made it easy for people to change the software on the player?

    Do they support open-source software for their player?
    • Well you can buy one and ask them to give you the OS and GPL part of the code... If they don't, ask for refund :-)

      I'm curious what would happen in such situation but I don't really need a portable player right now so I'm not in a position to try.

    • Re:REAL question is.. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by rixdaffy ( 138224 ) * on Saturday October 23, 2004 @09:27AM (#10608472) Homepage

      I don't see why they would need to release the source for their player.
      They probably should release any modifications they did to the kernel, but AFAIK they don't have to release any apps they make run on Linux. It's not like every company who makes commercial software which runs on Linux is obliged to release the source (would be great if they did though)

      Ricardo.
      • It's not like every company who makes commercial software which runs on Linux is obliged to release the source (would be great if they did though)
        That couldn't possibly happen, because you can produce software which runs on Linux without agreeing to any licence. An easy example is Java programs, but C programs could be compiled for Linux on another platform.

        • That couldn't possibly happen, because you can produce software which runs on Linux without agreeing to any licence. An easy example is Java programs, but C programs could be compiled for Linux on another platform.

          The language and the platform its compiled on have nothing to do with it. Even if you do accept the screwed-up interpretation of copyright law that says mere use of a program requires a license (since it copies the code into memory in order to use it!), the GPL explicitly gives unconditional pe

          • The hypothesis I was addressing was a scenario in which Linux was distributed under a licence which required anyone producing software which ran on it to distribute source code with that software.

            • The hypothesis I was addressing was a scenario in which Linux was distributed under a licence which required anyone producing software which ran on it to distribute source code with that software.

              That's a weird hypothesis, since no distribution I've ever heard of uses such a license. I'm not sure it would even be possible to distribute Linux under stuch a license.

              (Well, OK, maybe it could, if you, for example, produced a distribution that used a Linux kernel but replaced gcc by your own proprietary com

              • I believe that his hypothesis was a theoretical one in which run-time linking (ie running a program under linux) required adpotion of the linux license.

                For example, vmware runs on linux, linux is GPLX, hence vmware is GPLX.

                If this were the situation, Linux would not be anywhere near as popular today.
              • That's a weird hypothesis, since no distribution I've ever heard of uses such a license. I'm not sure it would even be possible to distribute Linux under stuch a license.
                Thank you for agreeing with my original point.

  • So.. (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    We have companies that make cool stuff that look like props from a very bad b_class scifi movie/series.

    And we have apple.

    I'll Switch to another player when it can make me a proper espresso, walk my dog and do the dishes !.

    retep.

  • Audio quality (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Norgus ( 770127 )
    Frequency range at 20Hz~20kHz
    Isn't this a little low? or am I getting confused by the fact all my audio files are at 44Khz?

    • Re:Audio quality (Score:5, Informative)

      by TheReckoning ( 638253 ) on Saturday October 23, 2004 @08:54AM (#10608353) Journal
      The human ear can only detect sounds between 20Hz and about 20kHz (some people can hear higer, some cannot hear frequencies that high).

      Audio is typically sampled at 44kHz to eliminate aliasing distortion. Google for "Nyquist" and "aliasing distortion" for more than you could ever possibly want to know.
      • I've often wondered: was the rather unusual sampling frequency of 44.1kHz chosen to be an exact multiple of concert pitch, where A is 441Hz?

        • I've often wondered: was the rather unusual sampling frequency of 44.1kHz chosen to be an exact multiple of concert pitch, where A is 441Hz?

          Not at all. It was chosen because it needed to be able to be at least 40 kHz (twice 20 kHz by the Nyquist Theorem), and because during digital audio development in the late 1960s, companies were typically storing the digital signal on high-grade video tape. 44.1 kHz was a compromise reached between Sony and Philips in 1979. This was over 40 kHz, and also matched

      • Audio is typically sampled at 44kHz to eliminate aliasing distortion. Google for "Nyquist" and "aliasing distortion" for more than you could ever possibly want to know.

        Pretty much correct, but no one so far has bothered to mention that audio must be filtered before it is sampled. It is this filtering that prevents aliasing.

        Sampling by itself can't do anything to prevent aliasing becuase it just samples everything that's there whether or not it would cause aliasing. (Ex: A distorted electric guitar w

    • Re:Audio quality (Score:2, Informative)

      by loonicks ( 807801 )
      yes, Nyquist theory says that you must sample a signal at twice its frequency to accuractely reproduce it.

  • That's pricey (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Lispy ( 136512 ) on Saturday October 23, 2004 @08:48AM (#10608328) Homepage
    Although it looks really neat it is way too expensive. I mean, the iPod is pretty overpriced and I thought Archos players to be on the upper edge but this beats them both. I mean isn't the whole purpose of using Linux on such a device to bring the costs down? I hope they are very successful with this device so it might get affordable in the near future but right now this is way out of reach for the average geek.

    Slightly offtopic: In case you are looking for a feature laden, flashbased player you might find the VaioX miniXen [deal-cat.net] interesting. It is pretty cheap and can do everything you might ever want from such a small device. It plays nice with your Linux OS too, of course. I was comparing prices and features of these players for half a year now and finally settled on the Vaiox. I am very happy with it, although I am not sure where to get it in the US! ;-)

    • not just pricey (Score:3, Interesting)

      by poptones ( 653660 )
      It's very close to being enough to get me to buy one save for the lack of software adaptability (Can I hack it and add features?) and lack of wireless connectivity.

      I mean, it'll play ASF... right? So ASF will accept mms: and other sorts of streaming filenames as well. Give this damn thing wireless connectivity and you've got a portable "internet tuner" - a device capable of playing all your favorite streams anywhere you're near a wap.

      With all the features this thing has (and the price!) I wouldn't expect
    • did you spot the bit in the article about the fact it plays video?
      I don't see the ipod or miniXen playing video - and the archos are more expensive!

  • Missed a format (Score:4, Insightful)

    by fire-eyes ( 522894 ) on Saturday October 23, 2004 @08:50AM (#10608339) Homepage
    Now i've heard some manufacturers say that they don't try support for certain formats because the cpu power on the units is too low.

    Being a new unit, and the price, I really think that's BS now.

    Of course, the format is ogg. I would consider one (though NOT at that price!) if it had it... Sigh.

    • Re:Missed a format (Score:4, Insightful)

      by chendo ( 678767 ) on Saturday October 23, 2004 @09:12AM (#10608422)
      Common sense is required here.

      If it could play DivX... how could it not have the CPU power to play OGG? It's probably a mistake on iRiver's part to not have included it in the supported formats list.
      • It is very likely that the DivX (MPEG-4) and other video decoding is being done by a dedicated hardware decoder.
      • Not a mistake, they probable decided against implementing it because not enough people would use it. Maybe 10% of the slashdot community would be interested, but how about elsewhere?
      • whine whine ogg

        possibilities:
        1. the video decoding is done on a dsp on which an ogg implementation is not available. the audio/control cpu does not have enough cpu power to decode ogg files.
        2. they ran out of room in the flash memory
        3. they had a schedule to meet, and did not get the feature done in time.
        4. they did not have the resources to put another codec through their q.a. process.
        5. if it had ogg, you'd be whining about lack of a different feature.

  • My portable music player (Score:5, Interesting)

    by _aa_ ( 63092 ) <j AT uaau DOT ws> on Saturday October 23, 2004 @09:03AM (#10608383) Homepage Journal
    Now it can't compete on storage space, I admit, but my palmone [palmone.com] treo 600 [palmone.com] has been my exclusive portable music player for about 6 months now. Combined with the pocket-tunes [pocket-tunes.com] software and a sd memory card, the treo 600 becomes a rather fancy mp3, wma, wav, and ogg player. In addition to that, it's also a cell phone, plays games, browses webs, etc. You can buy a 1gb sd card for about $80, and the pocket-tunes software is $30. The phone itself is only $350 with a contract from the evil phone company of your choice. If you get their unlimited data plans, then you can stream your favorite shoutcast streams straight to your phone.

    Ever since I bought this phone, my archos jukebox 6000 has been sitting on the shelf collecting dust.

    If you don't want the phone you could always get the tungsten t5 [palmone.com]. Also be sure to check out the yet unreleased treo 650 [engadget.com].
  • Is anybody aware of any reviews _of the final product_ that are available? I can't wait to see what The Reg will say when they get their hands on one.

    I am reasonably sure that Ogg Vorbis support is included (most all other iRiver products support it) ... as a large chunk of my music collection is in this format, I bloody hope it's in there...

    On some other sites, I have read that the devices support 8 bit games, however I can't find out any details, or an SDK for developing them, does anybody know any
    • the pmp-120 is already out at retail stores, go try it out. i looked at one at best buy the other day. the browsing interface is a big clunky, but it is the best portable media player i have seen thus far. compared to the rca lyra, the sony hmp [www.sony.jp] (which i tried first-hand in japan), the achos jukebox, and few other junky players, it seems like the one with the best interface, and the widest supported format range. it is also pretty good about showing metadata.

      it doesn't choke when you try to fast-forward

  • My $30 CD player can do something these can't... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nwbvt ( 768631 ) on Saturday October 23, 2004 @09:26AM (#10608468)
    Namely play entire albums. Most MP3 players cannot do this simply because they lack the ability to play songs without sticking gaps in between them, which ruin many albums.

    I've heard rumors that the iRiver was planning to support gapless playback, but their latest update doesn't work at all. Until they do, I'll just stick with my CDs when I want to listen to music on the go.

    • The obvious problem with hardware MP3 players is that they're all but unusable without plugging into a computer. Its actually quite easy to encode mp3s and other formats to support gapless playback, but you do need to play around with software on the PC (or Mac) I'd be nice to just plug into any stereo receiver and get MP3s (or Ogg or whatever)

    • Re:My $30 CD player can do something these can't.. (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      You can't play two arbitrary MP3s "back to back" without the potential for silent gaps. It doesn't mean anything to ask for this, and so when you do, what you get is a cross fade.

      MPEG audio layer 3 was not intended for ripping your CDs onto a flash memory device and walking around listening to the music. It was conceived as the high performance variant in a family of algorithms for use in streaming media. When you change TV channels or radio channels it isn't "seamless" so this wasn't a requirement. As a r
      • " You can't play two arbitrary MP3s "back to back" without the potential for silent gaps."

        Who said anything about MP3s? I know the MP3 format does not support gapless playback. Thats one reason I have my music collection ripped into ogg vorbis files (this is slashdot you know, people here are familiar with the format). Thus I can listen to them with no gaps. What I'm looking for is a portable player which can also do this. I've heard the Karma supports it, though it has its own problems.

    • In 1998 I like dance music - most of my albums were continuous mixes. I remember distinctly when WinAmp got the ability to play back albums continuously.

      If WinAmp could do this in 98, then it surprises me an embedded player couldn't do the same six years later.

      If the iRiver doesn't do it, I bet another can.

  • I got to play with one... (Score:3, Informative)

    by solive1 ( 799249 ) on Saturday October 23, 2004 @09:36AM (#10608503)
    There was a display model at a Best Buy near me (I think, it was one of those stores). I found it difficult to navigate through the menus and such and it took me about 5 minutes before I could get a song to play. There were no video files on the device so I couldn't test the video quality. All I know is that at the price they wanted, this player was too much of a hassle to use. And now that I'm reading about the lack of OGG support, that almost defeats the purpose of buying an iRiver.

  • Must Be Gapless (Score:4, Insightful)

    by nathanh ( 1214 ) on Saturday October 23, 2004 @09:45AM (#10608533) Homepage

    Until these players are gapless I am simply not interested. Too many of my albums are continuous movements. There's nothing more frustrating than a two-second moment of silence during the music.

    The other thing these players seem to be missing is a simple text reader. My #1 use for my PDA is an e-book reader. It would be really sweet if the PMP could double-up as an e-book reader.

    • Re:Must Be Gapless (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Shinglor ( 714132 )

      There's nothing more frustrating than a two-second moment of silence during the music.

      If that's the worst thing that's ever happened to you, you should consider yourself lucky.

    • On my iRiver H320 you can define the length of the pause between tracks and you can read text files (never tried to though, I do that on my Pilot).
      It never is "gapless" though. But the pause never is as long as two seconds either.
    • You may want to check out some of Creative's players. I own a 60GB Zen Xtra, and never noticed any gaps. Just now I listened to Deep Purple's Made in Japan (2 CD remastered), and have to admit there is a gap between songs, however it's very short, I'd say less than 0.5 seconds.
    • Real Gapless, not the rip-as-one-track fake gapless hack that iPod owners have to use. Not the 0.5s nearly-gapless-so-not-really-gapless 'gapless' that the Creative Zen does either.


      The Karma has the HonestToGoodnessZeroSecondOneTrackPlaysIntoTheNext version.

  • As always... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by 3nuff ( 824173 ) <erecshion@gmail.com> on Saturday October 23, 2004 @09:54AM (#10608574) Homepage Journal
    iRiver delivers another great product. The features on this thing are awsome. The design, quite futuristic. The price, well...but it does do video.

    I've always felt that iRiver really knew how to make a great product. I've got one of their SlimX CD players and was troughly impressed with the ability to upgrade the firmware and the number of options that I had when it came to keeping the device powered (rechargable, alkalines, and good old wall socket.)

    The only drawback to their products is the amount of plastic. The iPod is a good example of case design. They are almost completely closed. iRiver products just don't seem as hardy.

    Anyone else feel the same or am I just being a Troll?
    • I dropped my IMP-450 on the ground and got a scratch or two but it still works fine and is in one piece. I'm just pissed that the 450's (much delayed) firmware upgrade doesn't support ogg. Buyers remorse, right?
  • I won one of these beasts PMP 120 and I have not yet received it. I may have the option to exchange it against something of similar value.

    I was wondering if anyone had feedback. In particular, I would like to know:

    - if they think I can switch hard disk easily. I have had so many hard disk failures that I don't trust them anymore. I also have a 60Go spare disk, and I could use it there :)

    - if they think that there is a better alternative, such as an Archos player

    - if it will be hacker friendly. The fact

  • $600!? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by spoonyfork ( 23307 ) <<moc.liamg> <ta> <krofynoops>> on Saturday October 23, 2004 @11:16AM (#10609008) Journal
    $600!? That more than I paid to build this computer. Wow.
    • I paid $500 for a Nomad Jukebox (6 GB, USB 1.1, MP3 and WAV only, and heavy) back in 2000. While I could have waited for prices to come down, I really wanted something capable of storing all my music for a cross-country drive.

      Considering that since purchasing the Nomad, I use it on almost every drive, and sometimes during the day (either with headphones or hooked to my stereo), it's made up for its price.

      The moral of the story: $600 is a lot for a toy that doesn't get used. $600 is not a lot of money for
  • Is it just me, or does it seem that most of the posters here have completely missed that this thing plays videos?
    • Video is just fluff on these things... you can't watch video when it's in your pocket. You can't watch video walking down the street, you can't watch video while driving, you can't watch video on the bus (well in theory you could but you'd look like a complete dork doing so). Who needs video?
  • and the first thing that came to mind was portable pr0n. I can think of no other useful reason for a 20gb portable device that can play movies.

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