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HP Releases Linux-Based Notebook 392
SteamyMobile writes "As the article says, 'In a sign the Linux operating system may be gaining traction beyond server and other back-room systems, HP said Tuesday it will be the first major PC maker to ship a business notebook computer pre-installed' with Linux. This is great news because, as anyone who has ever tried to run Linux (or even Windows XP) on a laptop knows, laptops come with all kinds of funky hardware, and it's often a mess trying to find and configure the right kernel modules to make things like software suspend work correctly. Having it shipped pre-loaded, and with support, makes it easy for me to decide where I'm getting my next laptop. Linux has been ready for the desktop for a while now, but it is good to see companies like HP acknowledging that."
linux-laptop! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:linux-laptop! (Score:2)
EVERYTHING works fine - touch pad included with a default Mandrake 9 install.
EVERY version of windows I've tried requires me to install drivers for everthing to work fine - and the CATV device is one of those......which means I'm not able to connect to the internet to grab the drivers I need. This includes XP (which runs to slow on it and didnt' last
But can I... (Score:3, Funny)
cause I really like that windows stuff! especially solataire
Re:But can I... (Score:3, Interesting)
Quote from the top of every HP hardware page, in big bold letters:
"HP recommends Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional"
How about drivers for the current crop of hardware (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How about drivers for the current crop of hardw (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:How about drivers for the current crop of hardw (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How about drivers for the current crop of hardw (Score:5, Informative)
The SD consortium folks did not publish enough information for open source drivers. You had to sign various agreements to see the specs, etc.
However, this situation is now changing...
Our dear Redmond friends recently asked them for permission to ship SD drivers in source form; we (HP) said "sure, so long as open source drivers are possible". So this got them off the dime to open up SD implementations (at least the software side; they are keeping the mechanical and electrical specs locked up; they want to ensure interoperability of the hardware, and enforce it as part of the contracts you have to sign to get access to those specs).
So the programming specs are getting opened up; this should have taken place by now. This didn't happen in time for the Nx5000.
There is an SD driver developed independently on the iPAQ handheld for Linux from information that had already leaked out over the last several years; this needs further work for particular SD chip implementations. But it was problematical to distribute, at least by a member of the SD group.
At least it is now possible for do drivers, not possible in the past. I don't know how long it will take to get support done for a particular implementation; if you are interested, go for it!
- Jim
Re:How about drivers for the current crop of hardw (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:How about drivers for the current crop of hardw (Score:4, Funny)
Ahhhhh....One Second Please (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Ahhhhh....One Second Please (Score:2)
Re:Ahhhhh....One Second Please (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Ahhhhh....One Second Please (Score:3, Insightful)
If somebody buys a laptop with Linux on it, they'll either 1) learn to use it because they know something about it in the first place, or 2) return it within fifteen days (at least, that's the legal limit here in Canada). Your point is moot.
Re:Ahhhhh....One Second Please (Score:2)
Re:Ahhhhh....One Second Please (Score:3, Insightful)
I think you're not giving the ignorant dummies enough credit. See, folks like my dad want to pay as little as possible, but still, he'd never pay over $1000 for a laptop with a foreign operating system. I really can't see it happening.
Besides, you and I both know Future
Re:Ahhhhh....One Second Please (Score:2)
Re:Ahhhhh....One Second Please (Score:2)
Last time I was in Future shop I watched a guy pay them to remove his spyware AND to wipe his system and reinstall windows.
There's a pretty good chance that someone silly enough to pay to fix a problem (spyware) that will be solved with a wipe/reinstall would be having issues with Linux too.....but it's not an OS issue...it's a user issue........
I might also add that sales people who are making a commission might lean towards windows
Re:Ahhhhh....One Second Please (Score:5, Funny)
Hmm, I think you've got it wrong. It actually goes something like this:
Re:Ahhhhh....One Second Please (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Ahhhhh....One Second Please (Score:5, Insightful)
If HP is smart, they'll do what they do for their windows products... Include a backup partition or a restore CD/DVD that you can restore everything too. I mean seriously, novices are in the dumper anyway when fixing wear and tear on their Windows boxes. I ought to know, about half my income from my consulting business is repairing windows machines for home users.
There is no reason at all that HP couldn't have a default restore utility that works exactly like their windows restore. Just wipes the drive, and puts everything back the way it was when they got it on day one. That is hardly unfeasible. I could write a perl script...
Re:Ahhhhh....One Second Please (Score:5, Insightful)
What annual reinstall? The only reason you have to reinstall Windows once a year or more often is that the Registry, .ini files and other system files gradually get corrupted because any program can alter them in whatever way they want. Linux doesn't have that problem because programs can only alter their own .configure files, not the basic system ones.
Re:Ahhhhh....One Second Please (Score:5, Interesting)
You put in the 'rescue' disk and click on "Yes".
There, not so hard, is it?
Not that I've ever had to do a reinstall of Linux for maintenance purposes. It doesn't fragment, crud up or slow down and BonziBuddy doesn't run on it.
KFG
Re:Ahhhhh....One Second Please (Score:4, Insightful)
>>
>Not Yet!
Ya ever hear people complaining that it can be difficult to install some new software on Linux, what with permissions, dependencies and every distro arranging things differently and all?
As it turns out, there's also an upside to that.
KFG
Re:Ahhhhh....One Second Please (Score:2, Insightful)
The selling point, I think, is that it is a laptop that is intended for running Linux, so you don't have to worry about lack of driver support (presumably).
As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, it is an HP, which kinda negates any possible selling point
Re:Ahhhhh....One Second Please (Score:3, Interesting)
Why.
Becuase is linux is already installed on the beast by the vendor, all the hardware will just work(tm).
I can buy it and get on with being productive with it, rather than spending a lot of time getting it all configured, installing kernel modules etc only to discover that some vendor has claimed to ship a particular piece of hardware, but has in fact shipped something else which they have renamed. Eg Dell shipped me a SoundBlaster Live! in a desktop that ha
Re:Ahhhhh....One Second Please (Score:2)
"HP web site" [hp.com]
I do not know it that page expects a cookie though.
The lower end models do not seem to have the Linux option.
Not the Point (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Ahhhhh....One Second Please (Score:2)
hp laptops (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:hp laptops (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:hp laptops (Score:2)
Huh? (Score:4, Interesting)
Fink said the launch is a test "so that we can see the take up we get for this particular product."
Soooo.... if the "take up" is insufficient, then the test failed? Where is the customer left in that case?
Re:Huh? (Score:2)
Not sure what the article author is talking about (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Not sure what the article author is talking abo (Score:2)
And I think the same goes for almost every powerbook that's been released in the last year and a half.
Re:Not sure what the article author is talking abo (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Not sure what the article author is talking abo (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Not sure what the article author is talking abo (Score:2)
Not only that, but as my IT support buddy says... even components on the SAME MODEL can be different.
Re:Not sure what the article author is talking abo (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Not sure what the article author is talking abo (Score:2)
So I'm not sure. I might end up with an AMD64 laptop and a PowerMac instead. Those dual G5's are tempting
Re:Not sure what the article author is talking abo (Score:3, Informative)
Linux on Apple laptops (Score:2, Informative)
Actually, you should go and browse Yellow Dog Linux's site. They provide PowerBooks and iBooks with YDL preinstalled, dual boot with OSX. Even for these experts, not all hardware is supported.
I have installed Gentoo on an iBook with fair results; it works better on my G4 desktop. I've done better on the Dell Inspiron 2150. The best two laptops, in my experience are the Dell Inspiron 7000-7500 (old, yes, but works 100%) and the IBM T41.
Re:Not sure what the article author is talking abo (Score:2)
Re:Not sure what the article author is talking abo (Score:2)
Re:Not sure what the article author is talking abo (Score:2, Insightful)
Stupid business majors.
Worth the price for Wireless (Score:5, Interesting)
This does look really nice though, and I'm glad to see that they are using Suse, which seems to be the best "User Oriented" distrobution out there. I'm actually a little suprised that they can make a notebook no more expensive than it is with all supported hardware, as I've noticed Linux compatible hardware tends to be a wee bit more expensive than non-supported hardware.
I do have two concerns though, first off is the quality of the notebook. OS aside, if the hardware isn't robust enough to stand up to lots of abuse, then it won't sell well and someone will probably blame that on Linux. The second concern I have is that while Suse Professional is wonderful, the personal edition seems to really lack some important things (like a compiler. I don't care if your not a developer, if your using linux at some point you will want to install software that has to be compiled for your system).
Re:Worth the price for Wireless (Score:2)
Re:Worth the price for Wireless (Score:2)
Re:Worth the price for Wireless (Score:2)
54.
HAND
Re:Worth the price for Wireless (Score:2)
Re:Worth the price for Wireless (Score:4, Interesting)
This laptop definitely runs Linux well and is definitely hardy enough to withstand some abuse. When it finally does give out you can bet I will be replacing it with one of HP's preinstalled Linux laptops.
Re:Worth the price for Wireless (Score:5, Interesting)
Linux distros are getting really good at supporting wireless, actually. Just make sure that your wireless card is supported by the kernel.
I got a Cisco card (uses the airo driver), and Fedora Core 2 works with it just fine. To configure the WEP, I just chose "Network Configuration" from the "System Settings" menu (it's in both the GNOME and K menus, depending on your desktop preference).
Up pops a GUI tool where you can enter an SSID or choose "auto" and where you can select key length and enter a WEP key. Entered it, clicked Apply, and voila, I was up and running with my wireless network.
All GUI tools, no hardware/driver issues, to a 128-bit WEP network.
I'm disappointed it's not Debian based (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm disappointed that it isn't Debian. IIRC, HP has a representative on the Debian Desktop project. The worst part of working with Debian is the install and hardware configuration (both of which would be done for you here; just add a recovery disk and a few CDs as a local apt-get repository and off you go).
I would seriously consider a preinstalled basic Debian for a dual boot system with XP Pro. With Suse, I would just get XP Pro and add Suse afterwards...the prein
Re:Worth the price for Wireless (Score:3, Insightful)
Installing a wireless card is not a piece of cake until you've spent a couple days finding and reading documentation. Then it is a piece of cake since you don't have to do it all over again.
Re:Worth the price for Wireless (Score:3, Insightful)
As for Aunt Millie types, I dobut that she'll be able to properly setup a wireless network even with her Windows computer.
Re:Worth the price for Wireless (Score:2)
Re:Worth the price for Wireless (Score:2)
I find your metaphor flawed. Machining the cylinder heads is more like "I was working on this particular class and decided to get the interface rewritten by a professional". I would suggest that requiring the user to learn the word "compile" is more like saying that if you buy a Toyota, you're going to have to install that shitty aftermarket spoiler yourself, but you're just better off sticking with what Toyota already gave you because it runs just fine.
Tech Support. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Tech Support. (Score:2)
Of course not. Like many other companies that sell PCs, you will be instantly cut off from support the second the package arrives at your door. And at 1500 dollars??? You'd be lucky if you could actually find a phone number to call at a reasonable price!
That's kind of a lame question since most people _buying_ these laptops will already have a reason to run linux and will likely already know how to use it e.g. they wont need to be spoon fed. If they ar
WTF? No Wireless or DVD+RW? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:WTF? No Wireless or DVD+RW? (Score:4, Informative)
SuSE is a paid-for distribution; it contains closed-source and other non-Free components, distributed under special arrangements with the copyright holders. It is very likely that some licencing conflict somewhere precludes SuSE Linux AG from distributing cdrecord-prodvd. It is also possible that SuSE charges a premium for the "enhanced", DVD-ready version of its software, and will not allow HP to resell it.
However, all the older versions of cdrecord were released under the GPL, and the source code was already out there; so anybody else could work in DVD support independently. This is exactly what was done with the version that comes with Debian (at least, Sarge/Testing and Sid/Unstable), as the below excerpt indicates:
DVD recording also works properly on Mandrake -- the other free-as-in-beer distro. Not surprising really since a Mandrake developer is credited in the output above! It ought to be possible to get the source code from Debian or Mandrake. Once you've patched it to cope with SuSE's file structure {makes much use of /opt, IIRC; Debian is /usr all the way} you could always repackage it as an RPM. This is the best thing to do anyway if you intend to put the main binary in /usr/bin; just be sure to give it a version number higher than the distribution's official package, in case of security updates trampling on it.
.....
Note that my trials have been confined to DVD+RW discs {which, officially, aren't even DVDs; the DVD-forum clearly couldn't stand the fact that someone had managed to invent a better way of making recordable DVDs than they had, and threw their toys out of the pram}. It is no coincidence that these discs are what my TV recorder requires
There is also the more mundane possibility that the supplied DVD+RW drive is incompatible with the kernel on the supplied install/rescue disc. I found a DVD+RW in a 1U server that would boot the Debian Woody CD, but not install from it -- I was so glad I had specced in a floppy drive! Downloading and compiling a new kernel soon sorted it; but Debian doesn't require a kernel which is patched to buggery.
As for the wireless bit, well, TTBOMK the Intel
Re:WTF? No Wireless or DVD+RW? (Score:2)
Re:WTF? No Wireless or DVD+RW? (Score:4, Informative)
I don't understand what legality has to do with it.
A day late and a dollar short in my case. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:A day late and a dollar short in my case. (Score:3, Interesting)
SuSE makes this even better (Score:5, Informative)
SuSE also has a good repuation of GPL'ing their work where as Linspire won't even offer a free download AFAIK.
Bah. (Score:5, Informative)
Hardly. I owned an IBM T20 which qualifies as a business notebook computer and it shipped with Linux years ago. Here is the coverage [computerworld.com] from June 19/2000.
Slack on T22 (Score:2)
This is set up dual-booting Win2000, which I very rarely boot.
About time (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:About time (Score:2)
$60 difference... (Score:5, Interesting)
They get it (Score:2)
Thanks HP. I want to get a laptop within the next year, and you just moved to the top of my list!
Re:They get it (Score:2)
(Not-so-proud owner of an HP Pavilion 6535 that's been through TWO mobo failures, an HP color printer that I forget the model of that's burned through many $$$ in ink and was already having problems with paper feed and printouts not being garbage when I last used it (replaced with a nice Minolta PagePro 1250W, which just got replace
Re:$60 difference... (Score:5, Informative)
they are giving your SuSE 9.1 for the same price as XP home. We are not getting a price break.
They think this will be a low volume product, or they are not sure what the support costs will be.
The acid test for linux on any laptop (Score:4, Interesting)
Laptop trouble (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Laptop trouble (Score:2)
The trouble doesn't come when installing, and yes distros like SUSE etc. should pick up most if not all of the hardware.
Where the trouble arises is stuff like *) noticing your fan comes on more often than it does in Windows *) noticing that you can suspend from the console, but not from X *) noticing that you can suspend, but when you resume you
Convenience (Score:3, Interesting)
(Note that this certainly isn't the first [linuxjournal.com] popular Linux laptop.)
HP public denial in five ... four ... (Score:5, Funny)
I've seen this happen before. Many times. And as I write this, Microsoft is calling HP to remind them of the terms of their mandate^H^H^H^H^H^H^H contract. And as the conversation progresses, the potential cost increases to HP's Windows licenses might get a mention.
Five seconds until HP fires off a press release stating that they are not really selling a Linux laptop. Four. Three. Two ....
Does it support Wine? (Score:2)
Still not fully supported tho- (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Still not fully supported tho- (Score:2)
Re:Still not fully supported tho- (Score:2)
this is nice, but... (Score:5, Interesting)
1) IBM needs to get their act together and offer Linux support, at the very least, for their laptop line. Their hardware is mostly supported already, but it shouldn't be necessary for me to pay the extra amount for a licensed copy of Windows XP, which I'll never use just to get a well-built laptop. What's more, they're advertising linux for enterprise use, and enterprises use laptops. I don't see how moving to linux couldn't be anything but good for them now, overall - or at least moving in and helping linux laptop development, so that it is soon mature enough for IBM to start offering it at a corporate level on laptops.
2) It would be nice to start getting a little bit better kernel and X support for things like suspend and power ACPI. At the very least a listing somewhere on manufacturer's sites saying, "hey, our hardware needs this specific version of software to work properly if you run Linux" - it's often difficult to find definitive information on such topics, and people will often get things working when others are not able to for odd reasons. Personally, hard or soft suspend do not currently work for me w/ kernel 2.6 and X 4.3 running the dri-trunk debs - on current sid - on my X30. Returning from suspend results in X being borked, requiring a reboot to fix. (Anyone that has information as to why this is occuring, or what the fix might be, and I'd appreciate hearing from you...)
3) Wireless support. I'm not talking solely about drivers, as those have improved significantly* and are on the right road, but wireless tools for useland. As far as I know, it's currently fairly difficult (via waproamd, the only thing I've seen to do this) to get a wireless card to 'roam' from network to network as you go from, say, home or work. There needs to be a good userland tool for this.
4) * The wireless drivers in the kernel itself are still pretty shitty and minimal, and wlan-ng sucks horribly. The hostap 2.x drivers are a significant improvement over the other two in every regard (as far as I've seen), but actual support in the kernel really should be improved.
5) power management tools don't seem to work too well. It's quite possible that I'm simply ignorant on the matter, but tools such as cpudyn and cpufreqd do not scale the processor's speed dynamically when losing AC power, or gaining it again. In my experience, the daemons need to be restarted manually.
Re:this is nice, but... (Score:3, Insightful)
Linux Certified Stickers, SWEEEET :) (Score:2, Interesting)
Now that HP is getting their certified laptops out there I feel that rest of the manufacturers would also start geting their act together. After all people who buy
Interesting... (Score:3, Interesting)
Tip of the iceburg (Score:2)
Microsoft Tax (Score:2)
Hopefuly it will become so Linux is the standard installation (because its free) and if you really *want* microsoft windows on your computer you go down to the store and buy it yourself.
- sigh - (Score:2)
If only HP could bring back something as slick as the 9826 [egliedv.ch]... (bigger image here [mjs-electronics.se]).
Documentation? (Score:3, Interesting)
It's not new (Score:3, Informative)
Take a look at http://www.emperorlinux.com/
This looks like the best solution to me, and it avoids the HP problem.
Is this the same HP that... (Score:4, Interesting)
Next time, I'm leaning toward a nice IBM notebook, mostly because they've been standup guys lately where Linux is concerned, and HP CEO Carly Fiorina has been making a lot of noise about DMCA crap on all HP products. Just how the hell are they going to lock up a Linux notebook with DRM?
I'm glad that HP is shipping a Linux notebook PC, but this isn't some corporate altruism. The only reason for an HP Linux notebook is they see the writing on the wall and don't want to follow the next wave. You know, the big wave, where Linux sweeps over the entire planet?
Get a Linux Laptop Today (Score:3, Informative)
This is good news, but I was at LinuxWorld today and I was sooo impressed with the guys from Linux Certified [linuxcertified.com] that I'll be seriously surprised if my next Linux Laptop doesn't come from them. When you go with a smaller vendor like Linux Certified and you have a problem, the person who answers the phone (there's the first difference, a human will answer the phone) will actually know something about Linux and be able to help you.
I applaud HP, but it's too little too late in my book. Linux Certified closed a sale today with old-fashioned customer service.
Good news, but ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:But which distro? (Score:2, Informative)
2nd paragraph "The HP Compaq nx5000 will feature Novell Inc.'s SuSE Linux"
Re:HP makes good printers, nothing more. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Linux day? (Score:3, Funny)
Slashdot has for years been open source news and opinions. It's only recently that it became infested with microsoft weenies and apple fanbois.
With the microsoft weenies come the worm reports and with the apple fanbois come the "Steve Jobs coughs" stories.
Re:Linux is NOT ready for the desktop (Score:5, Insightful)
Its clunky to configure irrelevant if it is preinstalled as it is already configured.
has issues with even common hardware (many manufacturers still refuse to ship Linux drivers) hopefully this is not a problem for the preinstalled version, though there have been examples of linux laptops shipped with hardware that just does not work.
comes with an RTFM mentality for support Apparently this comes with HP support.
and requires you to fiddle with initialization scripts again irrelevant for a pre-installed laptop.
What's more open office is a poor replacement for MS Office, and the same is true where there are apps to replace the industry standard. This complaint is the only one of 5 that is legitimate for a preinstalled machine.