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Debian Aims For September Release Date
Posted by
michael
on Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:49 PM
from the slow-and-steady-wins-the-race dept.
from the slow-and-steady-wins-the-race dept.
An anonymous submitter writes "Debian Planet has a good discussion of the most recent release update from the new Debian release managers. The most interesting point is the current hard freeze of base+standard and an optimistic but doable release date in September."
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Debian Aims For September Release Date
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is this the one... (Score:5, Funny)
Debian... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Debian... (Score:5, Informative)
(http://127.0.0.1/ | Last Journal: Tuesday August 03 2004, @01:06PM)
The name fix (Score:5, Funny)
I think they could solve their name problems if they would rename everything like this:
Stable => Debian Server
Testing => Debian Desktop
Unstable => Debian Windows
Each name clearly denoting the level of stability for that branch.
(Let the flame wars begin
Re:Debian... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Debian... (Score:5, Informative)
Aptitude is the default apt frontend in Sarge - dselect is deprecated, although it's still available as an option in the new debian-installer for those who've got used to it.
I can honestly say that if it wasn't for aptitude, I wouldn't be using Debian. I tried to try Debian a number of times in years gone by, and always failed to get through dselect without accidentally finalising on a set of broken packages - this despite years of Linux experience. But when the debian-installer betas came out, I tried again, and aptitude was usable enough to get me through. And I like it enough that my old SuSE skills are gathering dust.
In short, Debian is no longer impossible to install. Let's hope more people who were previously put off by the bad old installation process feel inspired to try again come September.
Re:Debian... (Score:5, Interesting)
eh? (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.theantix.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday April 12 2005, @02:47PM)
This isn't to say that Debian sucks -- it really doesn't suck at all and I love using stable for servers. It's just not a "fine desktop" for people who just want to get work or play done without applications suddenly failing on them.
Re:eh? (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://slashdot.org/)
HOWTO use Debian Sid (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://slashdot.org/~hummassa | Last Journal: Wednesday August 22, @05:11AM)
1(a). this means: apt-get upgrade if and only if there is a serious vulnerability; optionally, once a week, preferably once a month.
2. USE apt-listbugs.
2(a). this means: READ the fscking bugs. take a special look in those marked by apt-listbugs with , but DO read all of them. in any apt-get dist-upgrade, I get at most 30 bugs.
3. USE apt-listchanges.
3(a). yes, you know the drill. READ the changes. SEARCH for changed functionality, especially in packages you tinkered with the config.
1+2+3 == NEVER breaking the machine.
Re:eh? (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.cnycomputerservice.com/)
I have to ask - have you actually even used the current Unstable release?
I'm not trying to insulting you, it's just that I've talked to many who've "heard that it's that way" without actually trying it. Can you provide some examples? I'm sure there are plenty, but as far as my own experience goes, I've used it for the last couple of years without hesitation. I'm not a developer, maintainer, nor a coder for that matter. I personally use Unstable on 3 machines for desktop systems, and install it for others, and have very rarely had anything break. I'm curious to hear some "real word" examples versus those who've "heard it's not for a dekstop".
Re:Debian... (Score:5, Informative)
(http://www.cnycomputerservice.com/)
And to top off including 13,000+ packages, they've even beaten [debian.org] the release times between Microsoft's barebones desktop OSes Windows XP [com.com] and Longhorn [3drealms.com]
Re:Debian... (Score:5, Informative)
(http://www.unixwhore.com/)
* Alpha
* ARM
* HP PA-RISC
* Intel x86
* Intel IA-64
* Motorola 680x0
* MIPS
* MIPS (DEC)
* PowerPC
* IBM S/390
* SPARC
Re:Debian... (Score:5, Insightful)
And for those of us who've used Debian before, we can tell you that, every so often, unstable just breaks. It's not like it's planned, but the fact is, with so many package maintainers, something's bound to go wrong - and it usually does every few months. At that point, you've got to go and uninstall and reinstall packages to make dpkg not complain about weird circular dependency problems - an irony for a distribution that so many claim is the answer to "dependency hell".
You can't test to see how reliable Debian Unstable is, either. I mean, "Debian unstable works great for me" is kind of confusing as a statement. Did it work right a month ago? How about 36 days ago? 67 days ago? That is to say, it's impossible to actually be sure that it's working right any particular day because Debian unstable is constantly changing. Debian stable, SuSE, and RedHat simply don't have this problem, and it's why many people are not enamored of running Debian off the unstable packages repository.
Thus, Debian unstable is simply _not_ what you want for reliable updating and pain-free maintenance. Debian is many great things, but realize that it has big faults once you move out of stable. It pisses me off to no end when people proclaim Debian to be the most stable (in reference to the stable branch) and most up-to-date (in reference to unstable). It's the most stable OR the most up-to-date, not both.
Just thought I'd get that off my chest. I'm a big Debian proponent, but I'm not going to lie about what's going on with it.
-Erwos
Re:Debian... (Score:4, Informative)
(http://www.cnycomputerservice.com/)
huh?
$ cat
Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 \n \l
$ dpkg -l xserver-xfree86 |grep ii
ii xserver-xfree8 4.3.0.dfsg.1-6 the XFree86 X server
Re:Yes and No....The Labels are Wrong (Score:4, Informative)
A binary package targetted at Unstable could fail to install and run tomorrow because dependencies have incremented upward in version.
WHAT? Sarge might be RELEASED? (Score:5, Funny)
Let's see... (Score:5, Funny)
(Last Journal: Monday October 01 2001, @06:53PM)
Sarge released... Check
Slashdot works better with Internet Explorer than with Firefox... Check
Walls bleeding...Check.
Yup, it's the End Times.
Re:Let's see... (Score:4, Funny)
ode to 503 (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.grub.net/blog/index.html | Last Journal: Wednesday June 27, @08:48AM)
five oh three
we've seen thee a lot two odd numbers sandwiching naught
seeing a good olde friend
such a grand time
a prime, a zero, another prime
we hope slashdot
doesn't fix their site
so we may enjoy you every night
grub
Nope (Score:5, Informative)
Debian Noobie (Score:5, Interesting)
to achieve their aims do they bug fix other peoples' code? do they inform the original authors of a problem? if so, what effects on code ownership does this have - does the Debian team become co-author?
anyone got any interesting stories about the Debian process along these lines?
Re:Debian Noobie (Score:5, Informative)
Sometimes. Other times, they simply "backport" bug fixes to older versions.
do they inform the original authors of a problem?
Gentoo always sends its fixes upstream when appropriate. I would imagine Debian does the same.
if so, what effects on code ownership does this have - does the Debian team become co-author?
Depends on the author of the original code and the patch. Some will require you to assign copyright to them, others don't really care because it's all GPL'd anyway.
Re:Debian Noobie (Score:5, Informative)
(http://lems.kiskeyix.org/)
For instance, I usually hang out in the #debian-desktop channel, and i'm subscribe to the debian-gtk-gnome mailing lists. In there I get to help others fix their problems, help developers find bugs and re-do packages, etc.. etc... Usually all bugs reported to the bugs.debian.org bug repository or to the mailing list get sent upstream.
After years of distro-hopping from various Linux distributions, I find Debian to be the one that gives me the most confidence in all senses: from a security point of view, from a non-vendor "lock-in" point of view, and even more importantly from a stability point of view.
Surprisingly enough, I run debian "unstable" as my main workstation at work and at home, and I rarely see a piece of software that breaks (this is despite the fact that I have become an apt-get junkie! Which means that I usually update as soon as there is some new piece of code added to the "unstable" branch).
The future version of Debian stable, code named "Sarge", is a very very solid distro as it is at this moment. I have started to exclusively install this distro on friend's and family's desktops as they move away from other OSes and welcome the Linux beauty into their lives. Out of 20 or so "upgrades" i have done, only one has gone back to the dark side after a month or so using it. Usually after they get to use a very well configured (and stable) desktop based on Debian, they never go back.
My hope is that Sarge becomes a rock-solid, easy to install, modern OS a la Mandrake or Xandros, but totally royalty free. And so far I believe that very goal has been achieve, with a few things missing here and there that might be addressed in the near future. (Like the need for a GUI to the installer, and a way to manage drivers for hardware from a GUI).
Let's try to be orderly (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.neverwhen.net/)
Zealotous supporters of other Linux distributions over by the wall. If you have no clue how apt works but still want to say that rpm/emerge/tar is far superior, just raise your hand when we call on you.
If you think you're being pretty darn rebelious by railing against the use of "GNU/Linux", then stand over by the wading pool. We'll get to you once the grown-ups have had their say.
BSD supporters can congregate near the exit. We've heard some rumours about you and I want to make sure you have a clear path to the ambulance in case anything happens.
Everyone who thinks Yggdrasil is the one and only true distribution, there's a special thread for you over in the cafeteria.
Netinstall!!! (Score:5, Informative)
(http://assambassador.com/)
It's beta 4 of Sarge but I think it lets you throw on Woody as well. Netinstalls are good obviously because it's a small DL, you end up DLing only what you need, and what you do download is fresh regardless of when you burnt the CD.
Also, I'm batting a thousand with this installer as far as getting X video working without a hitch... I can't say that for the sound server, but as they say, if you're interested in sound, you shouldn't be running Debian. :)
That's really good... (Score:5, Insightful)
September? (Score:5, Funny)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Monday October 04 2004, @03:55PM)
Why this obession with release dates? (Score:3, Insightful)
(http://gazonk.org/~eloj/ | Last Journal: Tuesday June 07 2005, @01:18PM)
I've never understod this obsession with debian release dates. Since you can apt-get dist-upgrade every day to keep up to date, "release date" is simply the assigning of a particular date to a set of file versions.
Utterly unimportant in the grand scheme of things, if you ask me.
Re:Why this obession with release dates? (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.matthewgrove.co.uk/)
I used to do apt-get dist-upgrade all the time on my workstation but it is not acceptable for some computers.
One possible reason for slow releases (Score:5, Funny)
503 Errors & ^D HTML (Score:1)
This is totally off-topic, sorry 'bout that. Didn't know where else to submit this question...
How come I get 503 errors? I've been experiencing this for about 2 weeks now. Didn't seem to be happening before. It'd be one thing if it was all the time, but it's not. Is it slashdot, or my choice of browser (firefox)?
2nd question is: how come sometimes there is text that renders as ^D^D^D^D^D^D sometimes. I think it's when someone tries to use a special character that my browser (again firefox) doesn't support, but I don't know how to fix this. Again, slashdot is the only place I experience this.
Thanks for the help,
Oiarbovnb
Not yet! It's too soon! (Score:2)
New Installer yet? (Score:3, Interesting)
(http://slashdot.org/~nurb432/ | Last Journal: Friday August 27 2004, @03:24PM)
The installer is what keeps many away from using Debian.. that and the *perceived* slowness in releases and having to stick with 'old' versions of items...
Reason i say perceived, is that you dont have to stick with the released version forever, you can upgrade fairily easily to something a bit more current. ( or even bleeding edge if you are brave )
Debian sarge (Score:3, Interesting)
(http://www.artsackett.com/)
Yes, the security updates are a mite slower to get into testing, but usually only by a few hours or a day.
It works fine. I like it. I'm just sitting up here on my mountain being happy.
Ray Debian! Ray Fedora! Ray Gentoo! Ray Freedom! (Score:3, Insightful)
The aim of open source is freedom, and I think it's great that the Debian team, the Fedora team, and the Gentoo team each try to further the cause in their own way, each with their own focus, giving everyone so much choice.
Look how at-home Linux is on EVERY computing platform; THAT is beauty. THAT is truth, THAT is freedom!
I know I'll come off like a Microsoft (or ANY OTHER monopoly) - basher, but the days of closed-source-we-decide-what-is-best-for-you are OVER!
Thank you very much, development teams, engineers, beta-testers and users!
Ever onward! Excelsior!
Sarge Release (Score:2, Funny)
(http://www.larry.org.mx/)
A new release system is on the horizon... (Score:5, Informative)
The following excerpt is from an interview at http://www.pctechtalk.com/view.php?id=3230 [pctechtalk.com]. It seems people are not going to be able to bitch about the outdated releases for too much longer.
technobeast: Why is the latest stable version of Debian outdated? And why is this idea with several releases? Any purpose to announce outdated versions as stable and currently usable as unstable/testing?
Martin Michlmayr: Debian has traditionally had very slow release cycles. One reason for this is that Debian has often been used for servers. As it is being used increasingly for desktops, our release cycle is not adequate anymore. We know about this and are working on implementing faster release cycles which will meet the needs of server and desktop users. Another reason why Debian is often slow with release is that our system is very large. We have more than 10,000 packages and support 11 architectures. However, we are working on solutions which will allow faster release cycles. In this process, we are moving away from a feature based to a time based release. This will ensure predictable releases.
September of what year of what decade? (Score:1, Funny)
Help out! Fix an old bug! (Score:2)
http://master.debian.org/~ajt/oldbugs.html [debian.org]
err.. (Score:1)
Re:Have they changed the political bug yet (Score:1)
That's contradictory. What you're saying is: Debian uses a name from the ISO standard, but that's offensive. You want it to be something different from the standard, and you think that's not taking a political stand?
Think about it, suppose the name of 'Canada' was changed to 'Canada, 51st state of the USA', even though that's non-standard. Isn't changing it away from the ISO standard name like that a political statement? Then why isn't changing from the ISO standard 'Taiwan, province of China' a political statement?
Whether or not the standard names are any good is a whole different question, of course. But the one thing that Debian is being here is politically neutral. I can understand why Taiwanese people may not like it, but the reality of world politics is that China has a lot more power, which is why few countries have separate diplomatic relations with Taiwan (China doesn't like them doing that, since you only have diplomatic relations with other countries).
So yes Taiwan's place in the world is sucky. However, it's nothing to do with Debian, which is just using the ISO standard name for countries. That standard reflects the reality of the world today, which is that China is more powerful. All you have to do is change the standard.