by Anonymous Coward writes:
on Friday April 20, 2007 @12:05PM (#18813469)
there is a show stopper bug in either the kernel or driver for the ata2 interface.
it's confirmed now that on many laptops the kernel has to restart the ata2 interface intermittently and thereby lock up your system for up to 30 seconds at a time essentially rendering your laptop useless.
stay on lts or edgy for the time being until this bug is fixed:
And gluing a penny to the top of your PC lets you use imported software. It's true! Try it!
It works, but make sure Lincoln is facing UP. If you glue the coin heads-down, ol' Abe gets pissed and sends gamma rays thru your RAM, randomly causing errors and crashing. ECC RAM helps, but eventually the wailing of the damned will get to you. The only way to fix this without prying off the penny is to 'apt-get install van-helsing'. The van-helsing package will take care of your undead problem, but will probably
Zombie Lincoln doesn't care if you're using bubble memory, Winchester drives, floptical disks, or these newfangled solid state drives you kids are using these days. If he's not facing the right way, you will suffer the consequences.
Some nice FUD there. My laptop works fine - upgraded yesterday without a hitch. All laptops aren't useless with 7.04. Windows has some bugs too, shall we keep that off laptops (or mod some Microsoft laptop FUD to +5)?
You know, my hardware works with Ubuntu, so I used get pissed that people say things like "Ubuntu never works" and "horrible hardware support" or "the live cd fails to boot", but when you go to the effort to link to a launchpad bug about it, with several subscribers, I'm forced to admit that Ubuntu is not perfect. And I think its fair to warn people, especially when one of the computers affected is a laptop built and sold with Ubuntu on it. Point is, your personal situation is one point -- an anecdote, not
Nice job linking to an unconfirmed bug. How do we know this isn't your fubared hardware causing this problem? And based on your sample of one you conclude that all folks with laptops should avoid Feisty? That's a load of bull.
Feisty has worked fine on my laptop for one month since I installed the beta release. These people work very hard testing the kernel on many different systems, including laptops.
The new release works great on my Asus M3N laptop; this is a rare case and appears to be fixable. The fix is mentioned on the bottom of that bugreport:
Bug 84603 is the same problem and has a workaround. The new ata-piix driver doesn't play nicely with HAL, so use the old piix driver instead.
To hazard a guess you'd modprobe -r ata-piix and modprobe piix. To make this fix 'permanent' you'd add piix to your modules list and blacklist ata-piix. Don't take my word for it though, discuss it in the forums or IRC.
it's confirmed now that on many laptops the kernel has to restart the ata2 interface intermittently and thereby lock up your system for up to 30 seconds at a time essentially rendering your laptop useless.
Wow. That's fantastic. I used to use Linux in various incarnations as my main desktop OS. I root for it every day to continue improving. And it has improved, in so many ways. But it seems to be approaching true polish and usability on an asymptotic curve rather than a more linear progression. When even wha
Documentation is boring. Nobody wants to do it. Most people try to make writing documentation as easy as possible for themselves, instead of making it as easy as possible for the reader.
Copying or creating a few command line instructions is much easier than creating a bunch of screen shots and circling where to click. That's why even when there are multiple easy ways to do something with a nice GUI, almost all documentation is for command line methods.
I don't blame anyone at all, but it really is a shame.
*Is* it? Sure, command line looks harder, but is copy & pasting a single command in the terminal and pressing Enter, really harder than clicking on 10 buttons in a GUI? Wouldn't the first be easier because it's just 1 action?
To people familiar with a command line, copy & pasting can be easier. But for people who aren't, it is much much more difficult. For a distribution aimed at advanced users who prefer the command line over GUIs, it would be perfectly fine, even desirable, to provide mostly/entirely command line instructions. But for a distribution like Ubuntu, documentation should be for GUI front ends whenever a GUI front end is available. Ubuntu is clearly aimed at people who aren't familiar with the command line.
Yeah but the guides don't teach you commandline - they just tell you to copy & paste some text verbatim. There is nothing to learn. Why is that difficult? And back in 1997, there was a book called "Windows 95 voor Kinderen" ("Windows 95 for Children") - you can guess that the book was for. The book was accompanied with a floppy disk with some software. The book's installation instructions tell the user to install the software by: 1. Clicking on Start->Run... 2. Entering "A:\install" 3. Clicking on OK. Thi
Even if all a user has to do is copy some text, open a terminal, paste the text, and hit enter, they may still have problems. Most tutorials don't include instructions on how to open a terminal. Many users don't know how to copy and paste text, and rewriting is error prone and possibly dangerous. Users may be confused when Ctrl+V doesn't paste the text. And it's usually not just copy and paste. What if an error occurs? What if the user need to enter information? What if the command depends on their setup? Mo
*Is* it? Sure, command line looks harder, but is copy & pasting a single command in the terminal and pressing Enter, really harder than clicking on 10 buttons in a GUI? Wouldn't the first be easier because it's just 1 action?
What's a terminal? Isn't that a place where planes and trains stop so people can get on and off? What's a command line? Am I supposed to line up somewhere? Copy what? Paste what where?
I know that like most geeks you don't realize or are unwilling to accept it, but you are an elitist
"I know that like most geeks you don't realize or are unwilling to accept it, but you are an elitist." Dude, that was an honest question. All I want is some polite discussion and then you suddenly go screaming around and calling people "elitist". Shees, what the hell is your problem?
And no I didn't bother read the rest of my post. As soon as you said "elitist" I know you're just someone with a passionate, irrational hate for technologists.
Dude, that was an honest question. All I want is some polite discussion and then you suddenly go screaming around and calling people "elitist". Shees, what the hell is your problem?
And no I didn't bother read the rest of my post. As soon as you said "elitist" I know you're just someone with a passionate, irrational hate for technologists.
Well good for you. You say you didn't read the rest of my post as if it were an action to be proud of, so, I congratulate you. But maybe if you and the equally dumbass*/kne
Oh and you seriously think accusing people of being an "elitist" is going to make your point clear? Do you have any idea how many hours I spent on writing http://www.autopackage.org/docs/howto-install/ [autopackage.org] [autopackage.org] ? I took the time to launch 2 different desktop environments and to take screenshots from 4 different file managers. I circled the exact buttons that people have to click on. I did my best to write everything without using jargon. I tried my best to use as little text as possible, to describe
Like I said, your reaction to the word is a personal issue. You continue to make yourself upset even after I emphasized that I'm only using it as a descriptor that also applies to myself. It's a statement of fact, not an accusation or application of a blind stereotype. Furthermore you can't very well hold me responsible for not knowing your life story. I was merely responding to your initial comment that appeared to be very much in favor of the command line as being the easiest way to do things, including s
"Documentation is boring. Nobody wants to do it. Most people try to make writing documentation as easy as possible for themselves, instead of making it as easy as possible for the reader." Please, can you speak for yourself? Do you have any idea how many hours I spent on writing http://www.autopackage.org/docs/howto-install/ [autopackage.org] ? I took the time to launch 2 different desktop environments and to take screenshots from 4 different file managers. I circled the exact buttons that people have to click on. I did my be
Do you have any idea how many hours I spent on writing... ?
That's part of my point. Documentation is a huge pain. That's why it often isn't as good as it needs to be. I didn't say nobody put any effort into it. Even poor documentation may have required a lot of work.
And now you suddenly jump out of the bushes, calling me an elitist?
I didn't call anybody an elitist. I have no idea why you think I did.
you destroy everything
I didn't destroy anything. The documentation you created is still up and still done ve
I see now why you think I called you an elitist, but that was RedBear (207369), not me. I'm HeroreV (869368) and I just said that most (certainly not all) documentation sucks because documentation is hard, not that documenters are lazy or elitist or anything.
"When even what are widely considered the best, most usable and user friendly distributions of Linux continue to be shipped out with bad showstopper bugs in full release versions, and basic usability features like automatic determination of your video card and monitor specs are still unreliable, it isn't there yet. Fail."
You know, I've been wondering this for years: is this caused by bad engineering, or is it because there are too many different broken hardware out there? I'm increasingly suspecting that it
You know, I've been wondering this for years: is this caused by bad engineering, or is it because there are too many different broken hardware out there? I'm increasingly suspecting that it's the latter: you have to write thousands of different workarounds for thousands of different bugs in thousands of different kinds of monitors and video cards. Am I the only one who hasn't experienced any video hardware problems in Linux for 6 years now?
No, I'm sure you aren't the only one who hasn't experienced any video
if you are running a laptop you should not upgrade (Score:5, Informative)
it's confirmed now that on many laptops the kernel has to restart the ata2 interface intermittently and thereby lock up your system for up to 30 seconds at a time essentially rendering your laptop useless.
stay on lts or edgy for the time being until this bug is fixed:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-s
Re:if you are running a laptop you should not upgr (Score:3, Informative)
Re:if you are running a laptop you should not upgr (Score:5, Funny)
It's true! Try it!
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It's true! Try it!
It works, but make sure Lincoln is facing UP. If you glue the coin heads-down, ol' Abe gets pissed and sends gamma rays thru your RAM, randomly causing errors and crashing. ECC RAM helps, but eventually the wailing of the damned will get to you. The only way to fix this without prying off the penny is to 'apt-get install van-helsing'. The van-helsing package will take care of your undead problem, but will probably
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>It's true! Try it!
It works, but make sure Lincoln is facing UP.
Unless you're in the southern hemisphere, then you make him face DOWN. C'mon, people, not everyone lives in the USA! *sheesh*
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Spinning discs? What century are you living in? You need to move to the solid state!
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So how do I resolve this for my X60, which doesn't have any sort of optical drive?
Re:if you are running a laptop you should not upgr (Score:2)
Re:if you are running a laptop you should not upgr (Score:2)
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Re:if you are running a laptop you should not upgr (Score:2)
Feisty has worked fine on my laptop for one month since I installed the beta release. These people work very hard testing the kernel on many different systems, including laptops.
Re:if you are running a laptop you should not upgr (Score:3, Informative)
Re:if you are running a laptop you should not upgr (Score:3, Informative)
To hazard a guess you'd modprobe -r ata-piix and modprobe piix. To make this fix 'permanent' you'd add piix to your modules list and blacklist ata-piix. Don't take my word for it though, discuss it in the forums or IRC.
Re:if you are running a laptop you should not upgr (Score:2)
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Wow. That's fantastic. I used to use Linux in various incarnations as my main desktop OS. I root for it every day to continue improving. And it has improved, in so many ways. But it seems to be approaching true polish and usability on an asymptotic curve rather than a more linear progression. When even wha
Re: (Score:1)
Copying or creating a few command line instructions is much easier than creating a bunch of screen shots and circling where to click. That's why even when there are multiple easy ways to do something with a nice GUI, almost all documentation is for command line methods.
I don't blame anyone at all, but it really is a shame.
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For a distribution aimed at advanced users who prefer the command line over GUIs, it would be perfectly fine, even desirable, to provide mostly/entirely command line instructions. But for a distribution like Ubuntu, documentation should be for GUI front ends whenever a GUI front end is available. Ubuntu is clearly aimed at people who aren't familiar with the command line.
Some p
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And back in 1997, there was a book called "Windows 95 voor Kinderen" ("Windows 95 for Children") - you can guess that the book was for. The book was accompanied with a floppy disk with some software. The book's installation instructions tell the user to install the software by:
1. Clicking on Start->Run...
2. Entering "A:\install"
3. Clicking on OK.
Thi
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And it's usually not just copy and paste. What if an error occurs? What if the user need to enter information? What if the command depends on their setup? Mo
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What's a terminal? Isn't that a place where planes and trains stop so people can get on and off? What's a command line? Am I supposed to line up somewhere? Copy what? Paste what where?
I know that like most geeks you don't realize or are unwilling to accept it, but you are an elitist
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Dude, that was an honest question. All I want is some polite discussion and then you suddenly go screaming around and calling people "elitist". Shees, what the hell is your problem?
And no I didn't bother read the rest of my post. As soon as you said "elitist" I know you're just someone with a passionate, irrational hate for technologists.
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Well good for you. You say you didn't read the rest of my post as if it were an action to be proud of, so, I congratulate you. But maybe if you and the equally dumbass*/kne
Re: (Score:2)
Do you have any idea how many hours I spent on writing http://www.autopackage.org/docs/howto-install/ [autopackage.org] [autopackage.org] ? I took the time to launch 2 different desktop environments and to take screenshots from 4 different file managers. I circled the exact buttons that people have to click on. I did my best to write everything without using jargon. I tried my best to use as little text as possible, to describe
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Please, can you speak for yourself? Do you have any idea how many hours I spent on writing http://www.autopackage.org/docs/howto-install/ [autopackage.org] ? I took the time to launch 2 different desktop environments and to take screenshots from 4 different file managers. I circled the exact buttons that people have to click on. I did my be
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That's part of my point. Documentation is a huge pain. That's why it often isn't as good as it needs to be. I didn't say nobody put any effort into it. Even poor documentation may have required a lot of work.
I didn't call anybody an elitist. I have no idea why you think I did.
I didn't destroy anything. The documentation you created is still up and still done ve
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You know, I've been wondering this for years: is this caused by bad engineering, or is it because there are too many different broken hardware out there? I'm increasingly suspecting that it
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No, I'm sure you aren't the only one who hasn't experienced any video